The Great Global Warming Swindle

I know global warming has been a frequently debated topic here, and I don't want to discuss things to death anymore than you do, however last night on Channel 4 (UK) I watched a documentary called The Great Global Warming Swindle.

I'd always thought the science in favour of man made global warming was pretty firm and accurate. However this documentary showed that a fundamental assumption that nearly all global warming science is made on is fundamentally flawed.

I won't go through all the arguments in detail, (they can be found at link) but there are a few points i'll summarise here.

1. There is a relationship between CO2 levels and the warming of the Earth, but it is the reverse to what everyone else thinks it is. As the Earth warms up the seas can hold less CO2 dissolved in it, so as the Earth warms the oceans release CO2, but with a lag time of around 800 years.

2. Therefore, warming is not due to CO2 levels, it's actually changes in the Sun's output. In high periods of Sun activity solar winds disturb ion streams from supernova which cause cloud formation (an important cooling effect), therefore the Earth, with less cloud cover, heats up. The relationship between the Sun's activity and the Earth's temperature were mapped over each other, with a surprisingly close link.

3. The idea of global warming was actually created as a spin story to take the worry off global cooling, and it was then used as propoganda by Margaret Thatcher to help disband the coal unions in the 80's and in favour of nuclear power, she founded the first panel for investigating global warming.

Did anyone else see it? I found it very interesting and very convincing, much more so than the science behind global warming.

Nice. *Buys a Hummer*

:P

Interesting. I might dig around a bit. I think you'd still agree that the fundamental message behind global warming should still stand. That is that we should really try to find, exploit and enhance renewable energy sources. Even if it dosen't do anything warming wise, we will eventually run out of fossil fuels and have to adjust accordingly. If we aren't prepared, major ecenomic crisis etc, etc. But as I say, i'll give it a look.

I knew most of what was said on the show anyway, but it stll made good viewing.

But we still do have to reduce our emissons, as we are running out of fossil fuels

There was something that happened a while ago where some oil company paid off some scientists to disclaim or downplay the global warming issue.

True or not, we still have to look to cleaner energy, more efficient technology, and try to mantain a sustainable way of life like what warri0r45 said.

Quite frankly, I have a harder time believing the three points you just gave.

But thats just my opinion. I haven't seen your documentary yet.

(Ive seen Al Gore's film though) ^^;

But the important thing to note is we are still, all going to die.

WooHoo \

Missed the show but liked the music in the trailer. anyone know what it was?

I read a report by national geographic recently about how the ice caps on Mars were melting...

I'm sure most people here will pick up on the implications of that.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

I read a report by national geographic recently about how the ice caps on Mars were melting...

 

 

 

I'm sure most people here will pick up on the implications of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Wow i completely read that wrong :? lmfao anyway I agree with ya now lol

But the important thing to note is we are still, all going to die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WooHoo \

Well, that's inevitable :P.

I'd agree with it. I still fully support economic fuels, however, but mostly for economic reasons :P. Green fuels, ftw!

i dunno tbh...all i know is that global warming is a fact..dunno the factual causes though

i'll watch/read later :)

before i watch my before hand thought is that it's more companies in denial about global warming :\

i dunno tbh...all i know is that global warming is a fact..dunno the factual causes though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'll watch/read later :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

before i watch my before hand thought is that it's more companies in denial about global warming :\

it's simply an indepenant report on how CO2 has little or no affect on climate, and how it is mroe to do with nature

Could be quite correct, that hypothesis. Though, I'm quite sure we humans do influence global warming. Scientists believe that the "pools" of CO2 (in the air, ocean, fixated in plants, etc) are quite narrow. So if a small change occurs in one pool, it could have relatively big effects. Lets say this is true, and the sun influences the release of CO2, then we have two effects that will further increase global warming... us, and the oceans. And once us humans see that we have to stop with releasing more CO2 in the air... it's too late, because the oceans are already releasing their CO2 and thus warming up the earth more, releasing more CO2, warming up more, etc.

So, it's best to act NOW and get those CO2 levels down, because it will only get worse and cost us more.

 

i dunno tbh...all i know is that global warming is a fact..dunno the factual causes though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'll watch/read later :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

before i watch my before hand thought is that it's more companies in denial about global warming :\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it's simply an indepenant report on how CO2 has little or no affect on climate, and how it is mroe to do with nature

Nonsense. CO2 does have an influence on the climate, although the issue here is if it's due to the sun+ocean or humans. And I think it's both.

information outlined in the program, and several other sources, clearly show that CO2 changes after the temeperture. this is due to plants and the ocean being effected by heat and being abe to affect CO2 levels

Yeah i saw it last night, but whether the program is right or wrong, we will have to reduce our carbon emissions soon and find alternative sources of energy as oil, coal and natural gas is running out

The only problem with shows like this is people will just go with it and think they can burn as much as they want now because they arent doing anything wrong

I watched it last night, I have to say that I'm convinced :)

meh, i dont care, what i do care about is the amount of crude oil going, i wana drive a nice shiny car!! not go back to a frgin horse and cart :cry:

Just remember back in the 80's Channel 4 made a documentary that said that HIV wasn't the cause of AIDS. C4 has never been the most trustworthy of documentary makers.

That is that we should really try to find, exploit and enhance renewable energy sources.

Oh I completely agree, but one point that the program made was that denying developing countries fossil fuels to try and curb global warming is prohibiting them from developing. We, in the MEDC's certainly need to invest in renewables and nuclear because we will run out of fossil fuels.

Just remember back in the 80's Channel 4 made a documentary that said that HIV wasn't the cause of AIDS. C4 has never been the most trustworthy of documentary makers.

I didn't see the AIDS documentary, but the science behind this documentary was entirely convincing and reasonable, and in fact made far more sense than global warming theories and "science" which is based on computer models where parameters are modified to predict global warming.

Could be quite correct, that hypothesis. Though, I'm quite sure we humans do influence global warming. Scientists believe that the "pools" of CO2 (in the air, ocean, fixated in plants, etc) are quite narrow. So if a small change occurs in one pool, it could have relatively big effects. Lets say this is true, and the sun influences the release of CO2, then we have two effects that will further increase global warming... us, and the oceans. And once us humans see that we have to stop with releasing more CO2 in the air... it's too late, because the oceans are already releasing their CO2 and thus warming up the earth more, releasing more CO2, warming up more, etc.

According to the program, if CO2 levels rising were responsible for global warming we'd see an increase in temperatures in the trophosphere first because that's where the heat is trapped on its way out of the atmosphere, followed by an increase in ground temperatures. However, it's actually the other way round, and there's has been little to no trophospheric temperature increase.

Even if there was, during the periods when humans began to rapidly industrialise and hence produce more CO2, temperatures actually fell for a few decades, ironically rising again during periods of recessiona and industrial decline. Global temperatures began to rise recently before the industrial revolution.

There was something that happened a while ago where some oil company paid off some scientists to disclaim or downplay the global warming issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Ive seen Al Gore's film though) ^^;

Two points to note:

1. All the scientists interviewed for the documentary joked saying that they wished that had been paid off by large oil companies, when in fact they haven't seen a penny of money from any large corporation. Conversely, there is now huge amounts of money in proving global warming, however poor the science is, politicians want to be seen to be "saving the planet".

2. About Al Gore's film, the fundamental assumption that CO2 changes is linked to temperature which he bases most of his documentary around is plain wrong. There is a relationship, but it is the other way round, temperature increases then CO2 increases.

:P I've had my doubts about global warming for a long time. After watching that programme last night I have come to the conclusion that global warming is not happening and that it is just a cover up for not allowing LEDC's develop.

The programme included some of the best scientists on this planet and i recommend it to anyone.

One of the other points i would like to raise is that in the programme the scientists said, in fact the Green Peace co founder said ' If you deny global warming you are frowned upon like you are denying the holocaust.' IMHO that is completely wrong and the people who are deaf threatening the scientists should be jailed.

I'm all for a greener planet, just donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t blame the people for causing this global warming as emphasized in the programme we are almost nothing compared to the universe.

I loved the documentary, as I was finally proven right at school.

My favourite bit was what one of the scientists said towards the end...

'The situation is like this at the moment. Our car has broken down, and instead of looking at the engine, the exhaust, or other major parts of it, we're focusing on the nut on the back wheel.'

:P I've had my doubts about global warming for a long time. After watching that programme last night I have come to the conclusion that global warming is not happening and that it is just a cover up for not allowing LEDC's develop.

 

 

 

The programme included some of the best scientists on this planet and i recommend it to anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the other points i would like to raise is that in the programme the scientists said, in fact the Green Peace co founder said ' If you deny global warming you are frowned upon like you are denying the holocaust.' IMHO that is completely wrong and the people who are deaf threatening the scientists should be jailed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for a greener planet, just donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t blame the people for causing this global warming as emphasized in the programme we are almost nothing compared to the universe.

you're acting like they said global warming isn't happening...

you're acting like they said global warming isn't happening...

There's an important difference in vocabularly. Global warming nowadays has generally come to mean the process by which the Earth is warming up as a result of human activity.

Climate change is more generally applicable to the periodic warming and cooling of the Earth.

 

you're acting like they said global warming isn't happening...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's an important difference in vocabularly. Global warming nowadays has generally come to mean the process by which the Earth is warming up as a result of human activity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Climate change is more generally applicable to the periodic warming and cooling of the Earth.

oh i know...and i'm still not totally convinced we didn't impact it at all. just saying he (to me) was saying that global warming as a whole was a complete and total lie...tis all

either way...it's happening..whether it's at our own cost or natural causes..but nontheless we need new fuel sources ;)

 

:P I've had my doubts about global warming for a long time. After watching that programme last night I have come to the conclusion that global warming is not happening and that it is just a cover up for not allowing LEDC's develop.

 

 

 

The programme included some of the best scientists on this planet and i recommend it to anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the other points i would like to raise is that in the programme the scientists said, in fact the Green Peace co founder said ' If you deny global warming you are frowned upon like you are denying the holocaust.' IMHO that is completely wrong and the people who are deaf threatening the scientists should be jailed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm all for a greener planet, just donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t blame the people for causing this global warming as emphasized in the programme we are almost nothing compared to the universe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you're acting like they said global warming isn't happening...

Sorry i ment it is happening slightly but due to no human activity.