sees_all1

Sorry I've been away for a bit - I've been busy. I've taken out a lot of the spacing the forum changeover put in, if there is something you don't particularly like please tell me, and I'll get on changing it. I'll try to keep it updated better. @mattr - thanks for the support, I'll get to adding you right now.

I disagree. During that time, I was training strength at moss giants, and returning to the GE would have taken a significant amount of time. Also, if every time that I noticed that a merchant was not going exactly as planned, and I dumped my goods, I would waste significant amounts of time on offers that never pan out. The beauty of the GE is that I can forget about my offers, so to speak.

Are you talking about the new monster? I'm considering changing the melee attack's maximum, but I don't want to give it the whole triangle. It should be difficult but not impossible. no just to weed out the mage PURES so y dont you make it innacurate so it will only hit people with low defense I think there are few mage pures in the game; most are tanks. Even if there were mage pures, they would still have a great deal of difficulty meeting the 750 non magic/hp skill total minimum, seeing as they wouldn't have atk, str, or range to take up a good portion.

Thanks for the kind feedback. Lol. That was intentional. I'm still looking for more sections to add, I think one or two more should do it. Also, I need to check out some of the new shops and see what their price is relative to the GE; there might be some ways to profit with that.

Lol, probably. I just hope that I'm not in any of the pictures, being the fruitcake you're pointing out. Keep in mind I usually play in LD on a laptop with no mouse :oops: I wish your guide was mandatory reading for new players to GOP.

This guide is intended to help the everyday 'scaper with their GE ventures. It is written from a F2P point of view, and assumes no skill levels. I can't promise that you'll make millions, its really up to you. I can promise that if you follow these guidelines, use your head, you'll be much better off in the long run. If you're diligent, you might end up richer than your wildest dreams. Please know that this is a work in progress, and I'll work on it as much as my schedule permits. Table of Contents: 1-Be wary of crazy promises - they're too good to be true 2-Economics of Merchanting clans explained 3-How to profit against Merchanting clans 4-Patience is a virtue (and keeping a level head!) 5-Putting your GPs to work 6-Disparities between Shops and Players 7-The Seasonal Madness 8-Event minded individuals foresee the future? 9-The parts or the whole are worth more? 10-Never pay for XP again 11-Hints and Tricks for PVP 12-An investment in skills is a profitable investment [hide=1 - Be wary of crazy promises - they're too good to be true]We've all seen the macroers and autotalkers screaming at the GE - Join my Merchanting Clan. You'll make millions! Or the, Do as I say, Do what I do, Make what I make! It doesn't work. If their "secret" to millions was so easy, and worked so well, why are they sharing it? Are they wearing a p-hat? Probably not. The truth of the matter is that the best way to earn gp is to find a production skill that you don't mind, and do it for a while. I repeat - there is no magic to making gp. This might seem as a shock to some of you, but I hope you read on. There are some good tips in here that will help you earn GPs in the long run.[/hide] [hide=2 - Economics of Merchanting clans explained]First off - Merchanting clans are trash. The secret to making money is not blindly following people you don't know, buying stuff you don't want in hopes it'll rise a few gp. That's right. Merchanting clans don't work. There are too many things that can go wrong. 1. Merchanting clan leaders typically stock up on the item before they announce it, and they sell it off as their clan is buying it up. 2. People in the clan that usually buy up the item first dump early, way before the set price. 3. Jagex has been known to drop the price of heavily merchanted items, i.e. limpwurt roots. If that's not enough to put you off merchanting clans, allow me to explain the ideal merchanting clan using economics. -The honorable leaders decide they are going to merchant item x. Here is the price and demand schedule for item x. Notice how supply and demand are not points, but rather curves. You will learn this in any economics course, it is an important, basic concept. -They agree to announce the item at noon. When noon comes, they announce the item, the dump price. They, and everyone else immediately put in offers for max (fair competition). The demand curve shifts to the right, because of all the new demand of the item. -The item steadily rises in price, due to demand increasing at every point on the price schedule. This is easy to see on any of the graphs in the GE. -Every day, the item rises 5%, like clockwork. When the item isn't quite the dump price, but right before, people are still supposed to buy the item, even though it isn't very profitable. -The item finally reaches the dump price. The price was updated at some unknown time, so people immediately begin the sell-off. The demand schedule goes back to its original place, but at the current price, very few people are interested in buying. Also, to make matters worse, there becomes a huge surplus in supply. -Only the lucky few are able to sell their items, and even then they won't be able to sell very many of them. Notice how at each price, there is a MASSIVE gap between the new supply line and the demand line. -The price continues to plummet as the surplus is used up, below the natural equilibrium. -Finally, after about two weeks, the item is back to normal, most people lost money, while a lucky few gained money. If you want to profit, DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP IN MERCHANTING CLANS.[/hide] [hide=3 -How to profit against Merchanting clans]Hopefully by now I've convinced you not to participate in merchanting clans. If not, good luck; don't come crying to me because all I'll have to say is I told you so. Recently, Gold bars were merchanted. Here is a picture of the graph: The clan, "be mercher" was looking to raise the price on the second hump - their goal was 480 per gold bar. Notice it never got remotely close to where they promised it would - heck it was 150 gp off. Notice the other key point of the graph. At the very end, after it crashed, it bounced! That's right, the gold bar (right now) has an equilibrium of about 240-250. Noticed that there were some individuals that were able to buy it for 210-220. Heck, I even purchased 10k for 230 each, and sold them for 241 each; a profit of 110K just for being aware of what is going on. I could have waited and sold them for 250 each for more profit, but this leads to this section: Buy items that have recently crashed because of merchanting clans. That's right - crashed items are almost guaranteed profit. The key is to figure out about how much the item is worth. If you look between the humps, you'll see that gold bars averaged around 235-240. If you can figure out what a merchanted item is worth, and buy it for lower after the crash, it is easy profit.[/hide] [hide=4 -Patience is a virtue (and keeping a level head!)]If you find yourself in a sticky situation, do not lose your head. The easiest way to lose money is to sell some item for the minimum when its crashing. A few months ago I purchased 5000 uncut sapphires for 900 gp each. The next day they started going down. I put an offer into the GE to sell them for max (912 each). I waited. And I waited. It took a few days, but finally they sold. It might have been a very slow profit, but I ended up on top. Had I sold them for 870 each, I would have lost 150K. Instead I gained 60k. If you absolutely need your GP back, and you have to dump an item, you've over extended yourself. Panicking is a sure way to lose GP. Another thing - If you notice an item starting to rise, put a low ball offer in. One time, I noticed silver bars were rising. I put in an offer for about half way to minimum. Three days later, my offer completed (after having slept for two). I then was able to wait another two days, and sell for near maximum. If your item sleeps on the GE, you will have one of the first offers in when the price gets updated; they will buy from you. When Jagex decided that there was no more protect an item, Dclaws crashed. And then they introduced +1 BH worlds. All the poor sods that sold their claws for minimum were out a couple million, while the people that picked them up gained a couple. Not panicking served people well.[/hide] [hide=5 -Putting your GPs to work]Remember what I said towards the beginning? The best way to make money is to find a production skill, and grind a way at it. Here's the thing - You don't need to be at the GE every second of every minute of every hour that you're playing runescape! No longer do you have to stand in World 1 shouting: "Selling Item X, Y gp each!". So, find something you enjoy, put an offer in the GE, and only return once its completed! Some important things to remember: You can only purchase 10k bars, ores, bones, etc. every 4 hours You can only purchase 5k gems every 4 hours You can only purchase 100 weapons every 4 hours You can only purchase 4 rares every 4 hours. You can sell as many of an item as there are buyers. If you can buy the limit on the GE at a low price, you can trade it with players at the med price! This isn't advised, but it can make for the fastest turn around time. The key to making money in the long run is finding volatile, yet stable items. What do I mean by volatile and stable? I mean items that continue to fluctuate between 2 prices. Personally, I loved uncut sapphires. They used to continually go between 850 and 950 every few days, naturally. They have never been worth nothing, and you can always wait a few days to sell for the price you want. The key is to find an item which you can purchase, that uses a significant portion of your wealth, and that is volatile enough that you can make 1-3% on it each time. If you can make 1% on your wealth every day, you will double your wealth in 71 days.[/hide] [hide=6 -Disparity between Shops and Players]This section is intended to help the less well off, less skilled individuals. Over the past few months, there have been several guides promising 300k-500k+ an hour, simply by buying raw materials. With the new shop updates, and price limits removed from the GE, this has become true again. If you only have 310 gp, you can buy a death rune from a shop, then sell it to the GE for ~400. That's an immediate return on an investment. While this may not be great for multi-millionaires, it'll certainly help out the little player. Several key things to pay attention to - -The GE Graph -The Shop Price at each point -The Shop respawn rate. This might be a way to make a quick buck, but it won't sustain you like high gathering skill levels.[/hide] [hide=7 -The Seasonal Madness]It is no secret that come October 1st, everyone wants an H'ween mask. Every third Thursday in November, everyone wants a santa hat. Every spring, people want easter eggs. Rares are seasonal! If you have enough to purchase one in the off season, do it! I bought a green h'ween mask a year ago for.... drum roll please.... 8.6 million. That's right, for 8.6 million a year ago. I sold it for 19 million two weeks before halloween. Because I had the foresight to buy a h'ween mask, I made 10.4 million. Now, I could have stayed at the GE every day, working and working to get my pile up, but this was an easy investment. I just had to let it sit, while I did other things. Short term, it is relatively easy to buy a mask or santa in world 1, then sell it for +3% on the GE. This might be one of the riskiest ventures you take, but it can be the most rewarding. At one point in time, I made about 5 million in a week through various trading of rares. I can't promise everyone's results will be the same, but it isn't impossible.[/hide] [hide=8 -Event minded individuals foresee the future?]A couple years ago, I was alching rune scimitars in the GE. They were worthless - I'd buy them for 250 less than alch price, alch them, and net zero gp, and magic experience. A guy asked me what I was alching. I told him. He said that he'd pay me 17k for every rune scimitar I had. We traded for a few days before he ran out of cash. No doubt in my mind he's got more money that 95% of all rs players. What happened, two months after that? PvP worlds were released. Rune scimitars doubled in price! This guy must have had more than 500, and his investment paid off handsomely. It wasn't exactly a secret that PvP worlds were coming out, but he had enough foresight to stock up on materials that every F2Per would want. One time I read a story about someone who purchased thousands of steel bars the day construction was introduced, and literally tripled his money in a week. Was it magic? No, he has just a little bit of foresight to see that materials used in the brand new skill would be a hot commodity. Jagex has given enough hints that you can see what will be needed in the future. Good investors take advantage of this.[/hide] [hide=9 -The parts or the whole are worth more?]Here's an interesting thought - Rune platebodies, Rune platelegs, Rune full helms, and Rune kiteshields make up the Rune Armour Set (l). Sometimes it is near impossible to buy one piece on the GE. Sometimes it is amazingly easy. It seems that there is profit to be made in either making, or breaking sets. You are only allowed to buy 100 pieces of a type of armor every 4 hours, and you can't sell immediately afterward. But there's a way around it ! If you purchase 100 of each piece, set each of them, you've created an entirely new item! Likewise, if you purchase 100 of each set, break each of them, you've created entirely new items! Sometimes it is very profitable to break, or make sets. One time I started out with a level 3 character, and after making 40k buy just picking stuff off the ground, I was able to make sets, and sell them at profit. I did this so fast and made so much that from 40k gp, I made 1 million in under 48 hours! Once again, I can't promise similar results, as the markets have changed, but imagine the possibility, the potential. If you don't have millions to invest, you can still grow your money by setting. [/hide] [hide=10 -Never pay for XP again]There are many different ways to train skills in which you either break even, or make a profit. These methods are fairly well known, and well discussed. A little bit of research can go a long way. I'm going to list a few that I've used in the past with some success towards the end of this section, but first I'd like to discuss your most valuable resources. In runescape, there are two things that people value: GP and Time. Usually for any particular training method, you can do well with one, but do crud on the other. For example, cutting diamonds will give you EXCELLENT experience and fast levels, and take very LITTLE time, but will COST A FORTUNE. Methods and skills that make GP tend to take a horrendous amount of time. This is because others are willing to pay a premium for the work they don't have to do. Notice that almost every uncooked version on the GE is worth about 20-40% more than the cooked version. This is because cooking experience is valuable, and fast experience is worth much more. The key towards faster training and less spending is finding activities that are fairly repetitive, give less than ideal yet quick training, and can be done near a bank. There are many guides with many activities like this, but to name a few, Its no secret that: Smelting bars makes a profit, while super heating usually breaks even (mithril & up). Certain items in runescape have been deemed "worthless", and can be high alched for free. Crafting certain jewelry (sapphire necklaces, anyone?) usually makes a profit. (F2P only)The Chaos Alter in lvl 15 wildy has many free bones to bury. The biggest point of this section, the one that I'd like you to take home, is a little research goes a long way. Knowing the price of a nature rune, and many different items can determine fairly quick, free mage experience. Knowing the price of coal and mithril ore can get decent smithing experience, the list goes on.[/hide] [hide=11-Hints and Tricks for PVP] One thing I notice in PVP and BH worlds is that there are many people sitting around, doing nothing to gain Earned Potential. This is THE BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME! On a PVP world, you can do everything you can on a normal world, with a little more risk. Whether its training woodcutting, mining, fishing or cooking, you can use your time to get experience. Recently, I've been wanting to PVP. I went to a bounty hunter world, and I mined adamantite in high level wilderness. Adamantite ore, if you don't know, takes an excruciatingly long time to spawn, and sells for about 1200 gp per ore. The Volcano in the wilderness is the perfect distance to the spawns, so that you never have to wait between banking. As an added bonus, there are a bunch of hobgoblins which you can kill for limpwurt roots when you get done mining. They are also aggressive, and make it very difficult for others to jump you. Monsters don't follow the same rules as players when attacking. You may not have the mining level to do this, but the advice is good for general purposes: There is so much more that you could be doing instead of waiting for earned potential. If you're good at player killing, you can make 400k an hour on top of what you get skilling, simply by killing only your bounty hunter targets. If you're sitting down, you're wasting your time. If you're going to PVP, its critical to understand some basic things. -Have more than one food in your bank. When you're not in the middle of combat you don't need to eat your best food. Trout heals half as much as a swordfish, but costs 10 times less per constitution healed. When you're in a safe zone, its OK to be frugal. -25% Earned Potential is worth less than the 500k armour that you're wearing. Bring a teleport, it may save your life. More importantly, it will save your armour. -Don't let your Earned Potential get above 75% - the next time it updates, you will have wasted your time. [/hide] [hide=12-An investment in skills is a profitable investment]I started this guide out telling you one thing: The truth of the matter is that the best way to earn gp is to find a production skill that you don't mind, and do it for a while. I hope you take this lesson to heart. The fastest money making in runescape is not by buying and selling rares on the GE, its by grinding high level production skills. These take time to level, and when I say they take time, I mean its a considerable investment. Jagex estimates that there are 15,000 hours of gameplay in F2P, and I'll guarantee you that most of those are in runecrafting and mining. But those are the best money makers in the game. Mining runite can fetch up to 500k / hour, while runecrafting (F2P) can be 200k / hour in GOP, vs 600k+ / hour in running double nats (P2P). It takes a great deal of effort to get to those levels, but the rewards are outstanding. Its no wonder why there are so many level 3 skillers that have rares. Using some of the techniques described earlier, along with skilling, will grow your cash pile much faster than the 5k every 15 minutes you can get by begging...[/hide] Whew that's a ton. Feedback, suggestions, and corrections are appreciated. If I can think of some nice pictures here and there I might add them. I don't like all the formatted junk you see on some guides, so please don't suggest that. If you end up making moderate to significant contributions, I will include you in a "special thanks to".

Are you talking about the new monster? I'm considering changing the melee attack's maximum, but I don't want to give it the whole triangle. It should be difficult but not impossible.

works for me. Make the button nice and big, and put it far away from the "x".

seriously, wtf is a qwed? ;) How people spend their time on RS is their business, not mine. If they want to waste it perfecting another account other than their main, so be it. All that happens is they get two accounts, each worse off without the extra levels.

I've taken a liking to the newer "report abuse" interface, it makes it alot easier to report these narbs. I would personally like to see some IP bans given out, not only to stop their nub characters, but to actually punish them; its bad enough to have organized price manipulation - worse to listen to them gloat about their clans.

From my own personal experiences, I would tend to disagree. But that's just because its my own experiences :P . At any rate, we should be comparing apples to apples. To steer back to the thread topic - The comperable comparision is willows to coal, in which case willows are undoubtly faster (xp). Which, by the way, I agree that mining sucks. I think it is one of the skills that are comparable whether you do it in F2P or P2P, espescially in difficulty.

Maximum hit in F2P is currently 35 - -Amulet of Strength -Rune Berserker Shield -Rune Gauntlets (FoG) -Corrupt Dragon Battleaxe -Ultimate Strength -Strength Potion I've witnessed this, but forgot to take a screenie.... anyhow using this the Tip.it calculator says its 36...

When you get 50 rc, get a couple of tablets and see how quickly you can get with each... I think the fastest method (and semi-profitable) was: -Air staff -Water Tiara -Lumbridge Explorers ring -Water Runecrafting Gloves from FoG -Water Tablets from GOP -Teleport to Falador Example: Wielding the air staff, teleport to Falador. Run to the west bank. Bank, grab 26 essense Teleport to water altar, craft runes, repeat. I think that's the method water_is_nat (one of the 5? f2p only players to max) used to get 99 rc. Like the guide, good jorb.

(from a f2p standpoint) Sort of. If you're talking about the best of conditions, I still think woodcutting is faster (xp and profit). If you're talking about normal conditions, I think they're about equal (xp and profit). I'd like to toss in my 2 cents: Mining experience should be closer to wood cutting experience (and smithing should be closer to firemaking, but that's not this discussion). Whether that means wc gets less experience, or mining gets more, I don't know. The fact that each yew log gets 175 xp, and you can get multiple yews from a single tree... not to mention that there are many more yew trees in better locations than there are (equivelant.... mithril?) mining spots. Also the fact that yews (last time I checked) were 2x as much as coal or mithril...

I think it would be as fast as every 15 minutes, giving someone 10k. Only thing I could see happening is items crashing so hard that there aren't enough nature runes to alch them, and then nature runes skyrocketing in price, causing more instability. It may seem a little far-fetched, but nature runes could get to 500+ gp each.

Yes they could. Somewhere jagex stores information about a player's inventory, probably a login server (or multiple servers). In any event, if they have the data, they can scan it and find out. Anyhow, I've always been curious about this one myself, but I'm not sure the best way to find out. Obviously its hard to take an unbiased survey...

this logic fails. Lying to people isn't against the rules, but it isn't right. Many more examples of this IRL, and runescape too.

Like the meaning of the name, but memorizing pi is plan sad in my eyes there no reason on earth thats going to help you for any real life situation. I mean sure know it to 5 digits for a quick calculation, but your never going to need to be that accurate in any situation where you don't have a PC or a calculator to give you the vale of pi. On a side note mmmm pie. I've read somewhere (forget where now, but it was an accurate source) that the only reason to know large digits of PI is to create really, really big circles that are crazy precise. I think the numbers they were throwing out were the 30 somethingth digit of pi would get you a circle as big as the earth, to millimeter precision. mmmm pie.

An item will never get more than 250 below its high alch value. If it does, people will notice, and alch it. Using this to RWT isn't a reliable method - first there needs to be an item significantly lower than its high alch price (which would be a very rare occurance). Then, one account would have to trade the other account literally tens/hundreds of thousands of this item (oh, and to do that there has to be GP on the other side to make the trade possible). Finally the other side needs to alch ALL of the items... Back to the runes example - I don't think the prices in the runes shop were fixed. If it is, it must have been a recent update (within the past year) that I missed. I thought it was based on how many runes you've bought from the store in the past, recently, and a few other variables.

I seem to recall that the *intent* of no AFK is that jagex wants your account to be secure - i.e. you leave the room to get food, and your little brother hops on the computer typing in every cuss word he knows. If Jagex didn't like this, there are MANY different ways to fix it. They could introduce new randoms. They could have shorter auto-log outs. They could remove all low level creatures. Personally, I'm not bothered by this. It might make mind runes worth something...

Back in the 7th grade, I had a video project (with junk 3d animation software). I forget now why, but for some reason "The evil eye sees all" was a part of my video (no, I hadn't read Lord of the Rings at that point). [actually the video was of a football flying across the screen, hitting an eyeball...] Anyhow, that spawned my AIM sn, eyeseesall. Few years later, I started runescape. I decided I would get away from eyeseesall, and move to sees_all1 (seemed less creepy?). By the time I realized I could have gotten my RS name without the number, it was too late, sees_all was taken (whether it was before or after my acct was created, I don't know).

I think the discussion on this rant may have fallen away from what I originally ranted about. I don't have a problem with +/- 5% system currently in place, where the price of items are flexible (rereading my OP I realize I may not have been clear enough on this). I do, however have a problem with the rigid caps set by Jagex, where an object absolutely cannot go above. My example with death runes still holds true, about 10 days out. Death runes currently cost 305 gp each. There is a rigid price cap of 306, the absolute maximum offer you can put up in the GE is 306 gp per death rune. If price caps were removed, the maximum offer you could *currently* put up should be around 321. Without price limits (caps, not +/- 5%), items could rise or fall to whatever the market demands. This might make price manipulation easier, but it wouldn't make RWT easier than it is now (and in fact would stop junk trading, which could be a means to RWT).

Prove me wrong! Justify your points in this debate in how I'm so wrong. Don't forget to read my new post. It will save you a lot of time and effort. Join tip.it's unofficial clan chat sometimes, Forsakenmage. Forsakenmage is a pmod. She doesn't have any of the qualities you so hate. Also know that when she's in her chat, it never revolves around "omg a mod". I'm not going to argue you any more, because you ignored my last few posts. The very least you could do is pretend to read the opposing viewpoints, instead of just flaunting your ignorance.

42 :twss: