Troacctid

I understand. The truth must hurt when you've gone for the easy stuff, when you say the game isn't hard. :lol: Are you listening to yourself? "You've gone for the easy stuff, when you say the game isn't hard." Think about that for a moment. Go ahead. I'll wait. [hide=Click here when you're done.]I already said I think all of the stuff is easy. What is there left to go for? But hey, you're right, I admit it: I just wanted a fast and easy skillcape, so for my first 99, I trained one of the slowest skills in the game. :wall:[/hide]

There are multiple ways to train magic while making a profit. Humidifying vials, charging air orbs, maging monsters with profitable drops, superglass make, or just taking breaks to earn money some other way. Just off the top of my head.

Charging air orbs is double the xp/hr and still manages to make more profit than catching sharks at 99 fishing. Why get 20k xp/hr with no monetary gain when you can get 41k xp/hr with a significant profit? ;)

I want to point out that there are already guidelines for debating in this forum. http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=592029 Among them: [*:38kjegok]State your case and provide facts to support your question and/or point of view. Furthermore, you speak as if it's unreasonable to expect participants in a debate to avoid logical fallacies, phrase their arguments clearly, listen to the opposing argument, and provide evidence to support their position. For the record, it's even worse so say you have evidence when you don't, relying solely on the hope that nobody will be willing to trawl through hundreds of posts to prove you wrong. I mention this because I've followed this thread from the beginning, and nowhere did jrhairychest provide any evidence that supports his original claims. In fact, he has freely admitted that he is trolling. When he says he has evidence, it is simply a lie. He merely posted some Jagex quotes that had nothing to do with his argument and has pretended they are relevant. By the way, I can actually back up that claim with evidence of my own. For reference, the first post in which Trolly McTrollpants tried this was on page 13. In fact, originally he didn't even bother to claim he had evidence. At the beginning of the thread he openly acknowledged that he had none. This was on page 2: On page 13 he posted what was supposed to be evidence for his original claims, which of course is ridiculous, especially considering most of it didn't even exist at the time he posted his original claims. [hide=Under this hide tag is all the evidence jrhairychest has supplied in this thread.] [*:38kjegok]"Mods claim to be 'ordinary players' - Would they want the status if it gave you no crown visible to other players? No they would be unhappy because they 'want' other players to know they are mods - hence they do it for the status. Many who then achieve modship then revert back to the 'its not my problem' routine." He backed this up citing testimony from Bluelancer (on page 11, no less) and praising him as some sort of grizzled veteran of modship who is not to be questioned. When I called him on this, he accused me of personal attacks on Bluelancer. (Page 14, 6th post.) [*:38kjegok]"Why give status to people who will gleefully report others - In my mind you get status for hard work, not at the expense of others (PVP excepted). I find this 'looking for trouble' element of it distasteful as it encourages players to snitch, rather than use common sense." His evidence for this is a Jagex post saying reports are a factor in the selection of Pmods. Wow, impressive. [*:38kjegok]"Why do they insist on giving lectures to players instead of fact? When a mod is around it is permanently littered with mod chat." Perfect example of what i'm talking about. Here's what he had as "evidence" for this claim: "Some more issues came up with this on the official RS forums. Players can make their own decisions and they dont need to be lectured at. For some reason mods take on an uncanny schoolteacher approach that irks players. Many of the crop are inexperienced players who lie or waffle rather than give facts or give the wrong information." Yeah, that's not evidence, that's just repeating the original claim. [*:38kjegok]"Why, when questioned about how they got their modship do they instantly tele or block a player? - Something to be scared of?" For this one his evidence was "Try it yourself sometime." That's a direct quote. How stupid is that? [*:38kjegok]"Why get shirty with players like myself who will disagree with a mods knowledge, yet threaten to mute me for it because I dare to disagree. Happened on more than one occasion. I don't need to be told off like a child or spoken to as if I don't know what I'm doing." On this point he had the audacity to claim that the entire thread was evidence for this point because mods had posted on it disagreeing with his personal attacks on them. He didn't post any names, quotes, or page numbers either, which is the same as not giving evidence at all.[/hide] So yes, jrhairychest has not actually posted any evidence in this entire thread. He only says he has. It's not true. He just in the habit of claiming to have already supplied generous amounts of wisdom in some mysterious post in the past that you'll need to read through the entire thread again to find. He's been doing it throughout the entire thread, but he never bothers to actually quote the post in question, because there isn't one. I have no idea what you're like as a person, dude, but your debating etiquette is the worst I've ever seen. You've spent the whole thread making personal attacks and stating baseless generalizations as fact.

I don't think the summoning shard change will have long-term effects, because they said they know it's a problem and that a fix for it is coming. Did nobody mention the Trouble Brewing issue? All the rewards cost 10% of what they used to. Anyone can easily obtain a Phasmatys Flag in only 5 games. It used to take 50. Full naval can be obtained in 2-3 games. On the bright side, maybe it means more people will play Trouble Brewing and start wearing the cool outfits, which are pretty underused I think. Also, Rum and The Stuff were way overpriced before--now they're more reasonable. On the downside, I feel silly having payed 4k poe for my Lucky Shot Flag, because now if I'd saved that I could have bought two sets of every color of naval outfit and still had enough for a the flag, plus 50 bottles of rum.

I see little reason to select armoured zombies for ranging. The whole reason they're so good for melee is the salve amulet and piety. Sure, you could use the 15% range prayer, but it's really not the same, is it? If you're interested in making money from your training, there are a wide variety of monsters with good drops to choose from, most notably aviansies of course.

Well, since the Rise of the Red Axe is based partly in the politics and economics of the Consortium, it's plausible. But it doesn't seem to fit with what we know about the quest already--the title "Forgiveness of a Chaos Dwarf," for example, or that it's supposed to expand a little on Commander Veldaban's character.

In order for lobsters to equal monkfish in speed and profit you would need to catch 4 lobsters for every 3 monkfish. This is not observed. In my testing, I catch closer to 12 lobsters for every 11 monkfish. The difference is quite significant and makes it well worth completing the quest.

[hide=jrhairychest wrote] I was merely pointing out that on the one hand you say the game is easy, but on the other you took the easy options. The cape stats were there to illustrate this purpose. I'd say that was on topic as the topic is 'How easy do you want it'? You answered this by going for the easier skills. Edit - Heres a debate on this about least admirable skills on here. Proves very interesting reading, and discusses in some areas why they least admirable. http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=590266 I don't actually want it easier. Its up to me to get better, not the game to do it for me. If grinding wasn't that desirable no-one would do it. We all do it for the rewards we want. No idea about mechscape as that isn't the subject here. That definately is off topic. I guess you really do want to be king of the hill around 10 year olds then. Funny really, I thought games were supposed to get harder the more you progressed with them. Not at all. You going to 99 anything thats a real challenge or you sticking with the easy stuff? You going for 99 firemaking next then?[/hide] Sorry, but none of this really makes any sense. It's like you were reading a completely different post than mine. I no longer have any idea what you're trying to argue, so I'm going to respond to erewhon instead. I don't think anyone really and truly thinks Jagex should be releasing more unbalanced updates like Pyramid Plunder. But I don't think Jagex is likely to release any such updates either. Pyramid Plunder is really the only example of such a radical change, and all evidence points to Jagex having learned its lesson from the debacle. The game developers know that for every n00b whining that the game is too hard, there's another n00b whining that the game is getting too easy. And I know they know this because Andrew Gower acknowledged it in the Q&A. Thank you for clarifying your position--I can respect your concern that old content will eventually become increasingly irrelevant, but I don't see any evidence that it's going to happen. Not on purpose, anyway... but even when the QA team has failed to properly balance rewards in the past (hello Vinesweeper, hello Stealing Creation), they've erred on the side of underpowering them.

What was wrong with Excl's video? I thought it was good. Witty satire of typical crappy RS videos. By far the funniest of the batch, honestly. I've never seen any of the guy's vids before and I still thought it was brilliant. The linedancing was epic though, I gotta admit.

Well you have to keep in mind that time = money as well. If you can spend 300m gp getting 99 farming by planting bushes in your POH in only 10 hours, but your income is only 300k gp/hr, it really takes you 1010 hours. Similarly, if something earned you 300m gp profit but took 2010 hours, the same person could cancel out the profit and it would take, on average, the same amount of time as the other skill. It would be possible to ignore the gp figures and just give a time ranking, but it wouldn't be very relevant, and to convert all that money to time would be too bothersome to be worth doing. All things considered, I'd guess that the fastest skill is probably thieving, which can get upwards of 200k xp/hr and makes a modest profit. Why do you ask?

I can't speak for 66, but I can tell you that lobsters are pretty slow cash even at 99 fishing, and I certainly wouldn't recommend them as a moneymaker. I mean, of course you can give them a shot if you like, but don't expect much. Besides, at your level you could be catching monkfish and getting better money anyway. My advice is to do Swan Song and do that instead.

Nothing in runescape is HARD. Care to beat corp solo with no armour, food, or pots and flowers as a weapon? that's hard. No, that's impossible. There's a difference. :notalk: That's very possible in a luck based game; just very inprobable. No, it actually is literally impossible. The Beast will regain HP faster than you could possibly damage it. Remember that you'd need to kill the Dark Cores as well, all while dodging 100% of his splashy-claw-thing attacks. You wouldn't possibly have enough time in between all those to get in enough hits to cover his natural HP regeneration, let alone defeat him, and that's even assuming he hits nothing but zeros, which is also impossible.

No I didn't. I read it and it paints a picture of poor baby mods who have a rough time of things, hence the comment about why pmods prefer not to disempower themselves. It didn't bring anything new to the debate. If you read the entire post, then that's even worse, because it means you intentionally misinterpreted it. Example: Dare I say it? This paragraph really answers the debate. Purpose.

I'm beginning to be annoyed at the discussion of my skill levels and I'd prefer to get back on topic. Now, here you mentioned a challenge. But the game is hardly very challenging right now. (You said as much in your response to my last post--fishing, woodcutting, an cooking aren't very difficult, are they?) If you don't mind, I'm going to go back to what you gave as examples of what you found to be challenging in the game: You said combat is difficult, specifically duelling and pking. (Obviously you aren't talking about getting 99 in combat skills.) I don't see how new content is going to make PvP any "easier," ever. Any new weapons or armour is released to all players (members anyway) equally. You can't say some new update that lets you do damage makes it easier to beat people in PvP, because other players are going to be using the same thing against you. How many updates have ever made PvP easier? I can't think of any. The worst that could happen is to make it unbalanced, which you could argue--but that isn't the same as making it easy, not by a long shot. You also mentioned quests. Again something that is definitely not going to get easier with new updates; quite the opposite, in fact. I know you can agree on that because you already have, yes? I think so. Finally, "grinding." Sticking to a skill for long periods of time is, by your definition, challenging. One of the things you find most difficult. Look, I can understand that you might think of grinding as an admirable or desirable activity. But honestly, it isn't. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that grinding is not fun. I think any video game critic is likely to agree with me as well, as is anyone who has ever rejected an MMO game. Jagex has even made a point of not making Mechscape a grindfest--there is no grinding for levels in Mechscape. However "difficult" you find it to be, the bottom line is that it's just dull. And if making it less dull means making it "easier," then by all means let's make the game as easy as it can get. Newsflash: games are not supposed to be tedious. Don't go around saying "The only hard part of this game is overcoming my boredom! Now Jagex wants to take that way from me by making the game fun!" ;) Was there some other aspect of the game you think is not easy to start with, or have I covered everything?

Blue dots on the minimap represent teammates. Usually that means someone wearing the same team cape as you. It can also mean an ally in a team vs. team minigame like Castle Wars or Trouble Brewing.

Your first paragraph really answers the debate. Status symbol. If pmods find the crown such a burden they can always demod themselves. But alas, its losing power isn't it and they wouldn't want that. I can't believe you had the audacity to accuse anybody else of not reading the arguments when you blatantly ignored all but the first paragraph of this post. (Which I think is a very fair, evenhanded, and persuasive post; kudos, randox.)

You completely missed the point. See erewhon2s comments about skills being made easier at the expensive of those who did them before in the OP. It's not "at the expense" of anybody. Nobody's xp is being revoked. [hide=Off-topic again]The reason I'm hiding this section of my post as off-topic is that the validity of my main argument is not tied in any meaningful way to my stats or to my opinions on other issues like which skills are best. I don't want to use up all this space on the page to deal with tangential personal issues. I don't mind answering them because I have nothing to hide and everyone likes to talk about themself, but I don't want to hijack the debate. Whooops! I stand corrected. :? This was very ON topic. Youve 99d some of the simplest skills in RS in terms of time and/or cost yet youre saying tedium does not equate to difficulty. You would have backed up your case if youd gone for something a bit more challenging, even if you had 99d one skill that took a more of a challenge. If you think Summoning is the best cape youd just do it and not back out of it. Considering your combat skills mostly lie in the 80s Id say your just making excuses to yourself because you dont fancy it. Too long so too hard. :^o Making excuses because I don't fancy it? I said right-out I don't fancy it, didn't I? I'm comfortable training fishing. I'm not comfortable training combat. Nothing to do with how good or bad the skills are. I just don't feel like getting 99 in a skill I don't like training. My capes of accomplishment are easy to explain. Well, I suppose the story of how and why I decided to get my first skillcape is a medium-length one that probably wouldn't interest you. But I wouldn't have gotten 99 fishing if I didn't like training it. And I got 99 woodcutting because fishing is my favorite skill to train, and I consider woodcutting and fishing to be more or less identical gameplay-wise. I completed all the quests third because quests are my favorite aspect of the game and I would have done most of them anyway. And I got 99 cooking fourth primarily for the money--made around 50m profit by the end, give or take; I'm not sure exactly because I didn't buy and sell everything at once and I was doing lots of farming and stuff at the same time, but it's somewhere in the ballpark. I mean, obviously there are a number of factors that would entice someone to commit hundreds of hours to one activity, so it's a little deeper than just that, but I assure you I did not consider "simplicity" to be a determining factor in which skill I chose to train. Personally, I consider the simplest skill in the game to be agility, because with the exception of the Brimhaven arena, nothing is consumed or produced and all the gameplay is the same. A monkey could get 99 agility. Pun intended. Cooking is actually relatively complicated because of the staggering amount of dishes to choose from--pizza, curry, monkfish, sharks, swordfish, trout, salmon, butter, potatoes, even karambwan. Really? I thought you said this: Your posts are very contradictory. You argue one thing then say or do another. I don't see the contradiction.[/hide] If we were seeing the odd miniscule change here and there I would agree. However I disagree. What happened with pyramid plunder or noted farm produce could happen to any skill. All it takes is for more people to whinge a skill takes them too long or Jagex to have another of its bright ideas to devalue another skill. Same with weapons, items, G.E etc. As soon as you start to make things easier in some way it starts to lose its original value. "As soon as you start to make things easier in some way" is too easy for you, then? That seems extreme, don't you think? Anyway, "the odd miniscule change here and there" is pretty much exactly what we're seeing now. This last bit isn't related to my response to anyone else's post here, but I want to throw this quote out there from Andrew Gower's Q&A today, because he mentioned this topic. I think he brings up a valid point that new content also adds more new challenges for players to complete. If there's one thing that's not getting any easier over time, it's a quest cape.

Absolutely the bunyip. If you're at armoured zombies it's easily the most efficient option, and it'll probably be some of the best 2.5m gp you'll ever spend anyway. That's a small price to pay. And you'd also be able to use better combat familiars like smoke devils at other spots. And if you went the extra level up to 69, the fruit bat is very useful for pretty much any activity. Oh yeah, and the war tortoise. So yeah. Bunyip. And slayer isn't that great for combat training, especially compared to AZ's.

That's not so bad compared to some teleport spells. Trollheim/Watchtower Teleports are a good ~700 gp, for example, and Ape Atoll teleport is a little more than that. Lunar teleports have similar costs--Waterbirth, Moonclan, and Ourania teleports all take 2 Astrals and a Law, which is about 750 gp. And all of those take inventory space for runes. Not to mention teletabs, which typically cost 700-1000 gp apiece. Besides, a slayer ring is the optimal teleport for loads of things. Obviously the fastest way to get to the slayer dungeon/tower/Tarn's Lair/Pollnivneach. Fastest access to a fairy ring--that's important for managing Miscellania, for example, as well as many other things. Speeds up Temple Trekking considerably. Acts as a Ring of House Teleport if you put your house in Pollnivneach, which allows for slightly faster prayer training (more inventory space for bones) as well as being generally convenient--I find this particular functionality indispensible for questing, as I can quickly access an area with a summoning obelisk, prayer altar, unlimited supplies of commonly-used tools, and portals to all the major cities (in addition to the fastest fairy ring teleport I already mentioned).

Keep in mind that the order is irrelevant except that you need to do the Taverley patch directly after the Grand Tree patch because of the balloon there. Other than that, you can do them in whatever order suits your fancy.

Well, they're also dropped by nail beasts in Temple Trekking/Burgh de Rott Ramble, if that helps.

For the first question, http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Elegant_clothing has images of all the ele' sets. For the second question, assuming maximum speed (99 woodcutting, dragon hatchet, empty spot) it would take about 287.5 hours to chop 69k yew logs. That would be an average of about 108k gp/hr and 42k xp/hr. Remember, this is at 99 woodcutting. For comparison, eucalyptus logs would, at the same level, be slightly more than 115k gp/hr and 50k xp/hr. Eucalyptus logs are always better to chop than yew logs. I'd strongly recommend them instead; chop them at Mobilizing Armies. You should consult my woodcutting guide (link in sig) if you have further questions on the subject.

There are several other threads of debate on the Fighter Torso (such as this recent one here) and the bottom line is that no, it's not worth getting.