zotto

He doesn't actually state that he is efficient. He just said in post 125 that he brings both so he can pick the best option. And that this isn't a problem if you have the cash. He is not pleading the case of efficiency, he is pleading the case of having the best of both worlds by sacrificing one inventory space.

The 2005 update list was quite interesting. Not because it was such a great year, but because I actually never accessed many of these 2005 updates before this year. That's right. Runescape is so rich in content that I didn't even have time yet to access content from the year 2005 till now. I sometimes think that they update too much.

go for 99 slayer. That should keep you busy for a while. It did for me.

So what is worth doing there?

Unless you are a noob like me and try for the spot a little bit deeper in, get piled by several TDs doing different attacks, and you die. Then you return in time (with your 6 minute grave and a backup sapphire lantern in your bank as recommended), but of course those 3 demons are still there. And they pile you again. You die again. 7M lost in equipment. Yes, that is how bad I am. From a newbie experience then (i am definitely not an expert): 1. I first had to learn how to lure. 2. I had to learn how to prayer swith and equipment switch 3. I had to learn when to bail out. 4. Now I am learning how to be smooth with turning on piety and eagle eye. Unfortunately I had to learn 1,2 and 3 together. And it has gone wrong several times. Ring of life saved me a few times. Teleing out saved me a few times. The biggest problem I had was thinking that there is a solution to every situation regarding luring. But sometimes it just isn't worth it for someone who is as inept as I am. Sometimes there are 4 TDs hanging around the safespot. Luring 2 of the away works usually fine, with a 4th one it usually doesn't work so well for me. So nowadays I log out or of my inventory is low, I tele out and restock. I'm using a newb outfit at the moment: neitz helmet (lost verac's helmet when I died at TDs). black d'hide body. verac skirt warrior ring d'boots fury BGS (previously SGS) and rune c-bow with broad bolts. Inventory: extreme def, att, str, range, prayer pots, some backup food and the regular stuff. The most inefficiency isn't caused by lack of stats, it is actually caused by slow prayer/weapon switching, and failing to apply eagle eye and piety at the correct time. I'm working on that. During the last run I actually started to manage applying piety and eagle eye. It isn't going completely bad. Once I am on a roll I get a TD every 3 minutes. But of course the pros will laugh at that figure. End report from newb.

Well, sold my SGS also, and am buying bones for 92 prayer. Let's see how things are at the other side of the camp.

You can do some practice runs with cheap equipment. Black d'hide instead of karils. D hally instead of D claws. Make sure you have lit sapphire lanterns in your bank for when you die. I had trouble in the beginning with the luring, and couldn't assess properly on when to bail out. It's probably better if you are not too worried about losing expensive stuff in the beginning.

I do pick them up, but if there is a conflict in inventory space, I will drop gold charms first. And green charms are next.

I have over 5k golds and 5k greens in my bank, and I tried leveling with golds when I was passed 88 summoning, but it was so annoyingly slow. I don't feel like grinding another skill like that. And then you do the calculations on how far 5K golds will get you, and it gets you nowhere. I will just wait till I have enough crimsons and blues (currently 92 summoning).

But shouldn't you be using the abyssal whip then if you really into speed???? I'm sure they hit a lot higher than d claws.

I was doing TDs yesterday (and to my embarrassment i only just finally mastered doing to the luring and prayer switching). I recently read on this forum a comment that he used his recover special pots in combination with the SGS. I took four recovery specials with me to the tormented demons and to my surprise they worked quite well as a substitute prayer pot and healing. But of course this has nothing to do with slayer. But it illustrates the versatility of the tool. It allows for lateral thinking and new methods. Which is fun. I'm sure soul split is fine. But I don't have it. And I can't buy it on the GE.

Queltar's sample isn't actually that small. In biology we often use much smaller datasets. Hence we usually are only interested in the 'bigger' effects. Queltar's data so far clearly shows that apparently the effect of various rings is so small that the effect isn't really raised about the background noise created by the gaming engine. That makes the conclusion that "strength bonus is obviously more important" an empty statement. The preliminary dataset shows that there is nothing obvious. Unless there is a second dataset we can use for comparison there isn't really much to say other then your opinion. If you state that the method is flawed I would suggest providing in detail a new method. Maybe some of us could collect some data on it. Even small datasets could give an indication of the proper answer. Especially if the effect is 'obvious'. And then the answer could still be that warrior ring is best for certain monsters, berserker for others. To test the method used you could of course do a control. We know that the effect of ferocious ring most be noticable. We could use queltar methods to test whether the method is ok, by comparing the ferocious ring with no ring, beserker and warrior. Needless to say that would have to be done on a slayer assignment which would make things a bit difficult. If the ferocious ring pops up out of the dataset then the method is valid. That is, that the method can detect a 'major' effect. If not, then the method is flawed. Saying that the method is flawed without testing it, doesn't really make the method flawed. Alternatively you could do the same test with another piece of equipment that gives a slightly stronger bonus in order to test the method. Alternatively we could design a method that allows to detect minute advantages. But I am not sure it is possible.

Is it useful for anything then? TDs?

This is the reason why the whole d claws is cheaper argument is invalid. You spent so much money to get that sword and you only save like 50k gp a day! Well, yes, but if I go and sell my sgs right now, I still made a 20m+ profit off the sword alone. Which is basically merching. You dont think you could have used that 60/80m to merch more than 20m? I don't think spec bars matter much anyway unless you bring spec restore pots, if you do that claws become pretty good. You don't need sgs anywhere if you have soul split, if you don't have that it might be useful. you could have used the money needed for soul split also for merching.

Using void range on slayer tasks is the dumbest thing you could ever do. Why is having higher max hit dumb? You can tank most slayer monsters with my levels, even in void. At the greater demons I can easily keep up with people with whips using void. Hellhounds; also works great in void. Dusties; doesn't work in void for obvious reasons. etc. But apparently you have a different experience. Which doesn't match mine. Full slayer helm/Focus Sight is 15% accuracy and damage to range, while void is only 10%. Ontop of this, you can wear Armadyl with a slayer helm to give you a HUGE accuracy bonus over void. Void is ok for killing things, but a focus sight/full slayer helm + Armadyl is far superior for slayer tasks. Like said above void does have some uses, but they are not that numerous. The major places it excels at is Fist of Guthix and PvP for lower levels. I got my 99 slayer before focus sight came out.

Using void range on slayer tasks is the dumbest thing you could ever do. Why is having higher max hit dumb? You can tank most slayer monsters with my levels, even in void. At the greater demons I can easily keep up with people with whips using void. Hellhounds; also works great in void. Dusties; doesn't work in void for obvious reasons. etc. But apparently you have a different experience. Which doesn't match mine.

I used void all the time when ranging slayer, except the tasks where you need special headgear.

Runescape life used to be easy. After the initial beginners experience where everything was new and exciting I had set myself an impossible goal: 99 slayer. And I did this in increments. First 85 of course, then 90, and then onwards to 99. The problem is really that this was an impossible goal when I started. It would keep me busy for years. But all the changes in equipment, summoning, new dungeons, transport systems all made slayer so much easier. I remember people making fun of me because I wore adamant legs, because I couldn't afford rune legs. The next object of ridicule was d skirt. I wore that d skirt for a very long long time. I liked it. It had enough defense bonus for what I was doing and it wasn't expensive, neither in price or maintenance. I went to slayer 80 without guthans. Couldn't afford it. Then I had the 12M and I got of course scammed. Leaf-bladed spear instead of guthans spear. Back to making money and finally I had guthans. I had managed in the meanwhile with cheap food, and Bones to peaches. Of course bones to peaches back then meant that you actually had to grind away for a few hours to earn the ability to cast that spell. There weren't tablets. But I enjoyed finding out ways to do the tasks with my limited resources. I finally hit 85 slayer and some more money came pooring in. There wasn't GWD yet, so the best moneymakers for me were abyssal demons and nechraels. Rune boots were still king. I was still rather poor compared to most. Summona, summoning, and my increased stats etc made slayer a lot easier and I went quite fast through the last 90s. I enjoyed myself mostly with finding out how to do the tasks my own way. When everybody was using prossy and prayer at the iron drags, I started experimenting with tanking them, and realizing to my surprise that it was quite doable. I did the same for other tasks and this is where I got my enjoyment from: the tinkering in equipment and approach. Not so much to get the most efficient method: which means currently the fastest method, but the method that pleased me most, which was often slower than optimal. I hit 99 slayer of course at one point and then there was a void. I fell for the peer pressure: have to get rich like everybody else. And I am only lately realizing it isn't working for me. I enjoyed doing shattered hearts recently. I keep hopping between skills trying to get my rocks, and I enjoy the diversity. It all feels like a game again.

Report #10 was rather interesting. I think the main problem here is that most people think that these kind of tests should give a conclusive answer to the question of which ring is best. That isn't the case and that is an answer in itself. There is no need to instantly doubt the setup of the experiment. The experiment merely indicates that the semi-randomness of the game engine is a much more important causal factor in the generation of variation then the ring that is equipped. I don't have access to the original dataset but if you would analyze it you will probably find out that the 3 datasets are equal in statistical comparison tests if you apply the standard probability margins. It is interesting also that the warrior ring does come out on top, although this may be statistically insignificant. That would indicate that if there is indeed a difference than it is currently most likely that the slash/accuracy bonus is stronger than a strength bonus. As a research biologist myself I am quite comfortable with these "inconclusive" results, and they don't worry me at all. Inconclusive is also an answer. And sometimes it says more than a clear answer.

I had fun ranging my last few levels with rune darts on slayer tasks.

The simple truth is that the versatility of the SGS makes it an excellent tool for the average slayer. I'm sure the SGS can become useless, since guthans also became useless for the higher level slayer at one point. For its price it is really cheap. You buy it, and you sell it, either for a small loss or a small profit. And in the meanwhile you can use it and lend it out. Soul split - Soul split isn't an alternative because it cost over 100M from scratch, not counting the time spend leveling prayer, and possibly also not counting the costs getting your own gilded altar which speeds up the leveling. I'm personally still 65M gp away from 92 prayer, not counting the loss in time leveling it. I could sell my SGS right now, but I would still have to spend hours and hours leveling prayer first. B2P - haven't seen any use for it since I last used it 3 years ago or so. EE - you can't buy it like the SGS. You need to invest time in it. It's therefore not an alternative. I don't have one for instance. Summoning - SGS is wonderful for summoning. You don't need healing familiars any more for many tasks, which allows for combat familiars to be used.

SGS: The SGS gives for me a free 5% or 10% free strength prayer bonus on an average task. That is constantly. It also allows for that extra bit of healing, that sometimes is just worth its weight in gold. And sometimes you actually are in need of healing and of prayer boosting. And you have the perfect solution in your inventory! D claws: I have had D claws. They always sat in my bank. I sold them at one point. Bandos: I have it. I use it. But lately I usually wear Verac skirt instead of Bandos tassets. For some weird reason I prefer prayer bonus over strength bonus. Because for me the prayer bonus does seem to have a visible effect. I guess if you are 92 prayer or something you don't need an SGS. But then again do you need anything? In the old age predating godswords and summoning, I went to 80 slayer without even guthans. People would call you insane if you do that now. But guthans was 12M back then, which was still a lot of gp at that point in time. Why purchase a SGS? It is the one piece of combat equipment that has given me the most satisfaction in my entire runescape career, besides the whip and the slayer mask/helmet. And that is just priceless. For bandos armour there are viable alternatives.

I just flashed them with piety, wearing bandos and a elemental shield, bunyip as a healer. They were still easy, even with this inferior setup (elemental shield).

"Everybody" has a whip. Don't think the price will change much. Maybe a bit up. I expect that the price of the saradomin sword will crash. Since it will serve little purpose after a whip/strength update/nerf.

Dunno, I got to herb 80 by mostly farming herbs. If you go for the herb with the most experience then a level goes pretty fast. If you do some midlevel herb such as aventoes, it goes pretty slow.