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Actually, for me (91 str, 95 attack, 96 range), ranging seems much easier than melee against high level warriors (like Primal and Prom). Much easier in what way? If you mean being far away, letting your team get the hit while your dps is much worse than that of anyone else then surely, teaming isn't for you. Range is just very inefficient in dungeoneering as the monsters weak to it(mages) are quite weak to melee as well, primal warrior are weak to neither melee or range. If you bind a bow instead of hood you will likely be slaughtered by everything, also, it's unbelievebly easy to fletch yourself a good bow in a dungeon, much easier than say, get yourself a hood every dungeon.

With your stats, cls is easily the best for boss hunting.(yes, i'm saying that, even though if you aren't maxed, you should first look to max out, and cls is not a training weapon) Right, thanks. Lets say I'd get max melee would the cls still be the best? With max melee and turm? With maxed,turm,extremes/ovls? (I just want to be sure because I'm not planning to get a second chaotic in anytime soon. :P) No, the only thing for which cls would be best with maxed melee/turm/ext is bandos, but not by alot, for most other things, rapier would be much better.

Because PvP Armor protects over more valuable items. And because PVP armor, y'know, disappears after an hour. That's kind of relevant. He already adressed that in his post. Most of the time, you die before the hour of combat (maybe 2-3 hours of actual pking depending on how much time is spent looking for fights), so the time limit is somewhat irrelevant unless your a PJer or Rusher. Of course, this only applies in PVP... Errm, but the real problem with this logic is that PVP armor is better for pking on pvp worlds than bandos, but noone really uses bandos to pk on pvp worlds(rushers really aren't pkers) and the people that would pk in bandos don't die every hour- so really, pvp armor is better for pking than bandos, but bandos is never used, so pvp armor is never used.

How are the frozen bosses even relevant? I havn't ever seen a 5:5 large frozen boss, and i doubt many people have alot of experience with them. Also i wouldn't dare say primal rapier is better for bosses than battleaxe/2h.

Way to go in comparing weapons. Allegedly(i don't know this from testing) the 2h is CM speed and the battleaxe is CLS speed so really, the stats are very much alike. I personally like primal rapier much more for it's speed- it's clearly the best weapon for all lower def/stab weak monsters, the ones that 2h/battleaxe are weak for(ghosts, rangers, shades, lower level monsters).

I'd rather say hood is even more necessary for the occult floors assuming you can efficiently work past the disables by mages/necros. Only new defensive item we got was the primal chain, and it's clearly inferior to the prom plate, which is still the best defensive item out there. As for binding a weapon instead of defensive, maybe if it's an empowered catalytic staff, ranged really blows at dungeoneering(with the exception of the bow that really doesn't exist), the only monsters you can't kill fast with melee are primal warriors, and ranged is even worse for them.

And why, pray tell, not? Because of most of them suck at soloing, resulting in getting crashed by higher level players who can do it much better. This leads to newbies hating on higher level players for being better than them. The lack of free servers isn't because there is a level 138 with turm/ovl/claws/CLS/steel titan at every single server, the problem is that every newbie thinks they are entitled an empty server, and if anyone were to crash them they are lowlifes/live in basements/etcetc. All we(elites) are saying is that noone, even us, is entitled an empty server- if you want something, you have to work/fight for it.

Is full mele void or neitiznot helm at KURDALS dungeon personal preference? There really are loads of stupid things people do for efficiency while actually stabbing themselves in the back(dfs for 90% of slayer tasks is one of them, anyone who says they need the defense is just stupid).

First 500 overloads that i couldn't bother to finish from my last batch, the 1k ext range, ext mage, ext def, ext str and ext attack after which i will be turning all those to overloads aswell. Then i will be finishing off some of the other pots i will be needing for slayer(~300 super pray, 200 super antifire, 300 special attack restore and finally 300 prayer potions). If i have any bonus xp left at that point i'd do a slayer task or two(get muted velds as task before weekend). Finally when the bonus xp runs out i should have time to finish off 10k crimson, 2,5k blue charms for some summoning xp.

I wear bandos and glory at DK's, so yeah, poor example. I just saw someone killing dark beasts with DFS, torso and rune skirt(h), healing with bunyip and soul split, reportedly trying to conserve prayer potions(though he was actually using up more than he would have with proselyte).

You would post that :lol: (looks at his signiture, perfect case in point) Seen alot worse though, some people just don't get looks and or efficiency.

Ehh, I said EXCEPT dead ends. And only idiots would leave rooms unopened (unless it requires some special tactic like potions). The bonus for opening rooms involves not only modifier but base AND prestige exp. Also, you can just have 4 guys do the boss with 1 guy opening doors (obviously easier in a 5:4 large, probably doable in a 5:5). Exactly, you said except dead ends when an efficient dungeoneer would say except non-guardian door rooms. There is a huge difference. And really, this thread is to discuss if only an idiot would not open all doors or that it might actually be efficient to do so, and it's not always black and white. If you leave 2 bonus rooms that require 100+ levels to do and suffer 1% bonus room penalty which could take 5 mins for you to do, it's actually be more efficient to end the dungeon. At the same time, if you find the boss in 10 minutes and can finish the dungeon in ~13 minutes for 50% xp, would you? It might actually be worth it with the chance of death, monster limit or team drama. Getting the maximum amount of xp per dungeon is not what efficiency is about, getting the maximum amount of xp in an hour is more of what it is about, and you seem to be confusing the two.

Does it really matter what way your xp gets shafted? If there was no level cap and no p2p doors, but the xp ramained the same, would you be happy about it? NO, but as jagex are happy with the xp rates f2p are getting(and there is already a free player with 115 dungeoneering, for god's sake) then there is really no reason to have to do alot of work for nothing, free players will complain no matter what. The worst misunderstanding free players have is that if jagex removes the cap and p2p doors the xp rates would go up. NO. It wouldn't. Jagex works with planned xp rates, and if they do one thing to increase xp rates, they compensate for it with other restrictions.

You'd give up the extra xp to finish the dungeon faster, obviously, so that's why this is under discussion- which is more efficient. As far as anyone can tell from your reply, you really aren't an efficiency guy so it's not much use posting about it. Getting 10% level mod is certainly not efficient, so killing only guardian doors is the best available option, if doable(the new highest floors are very hard to completely rush).

That still doesn't account for the time it takes to get them, and more clicking is...more clicking(particularly when banking with yak). Also, realistically, at 150 slayer xp per dragon(blues irons steels blacks) the gloves give you 22.5k extra slayer xp...If getting the gloves takes more than half an hour, they are not worth it.

Barraging lobs is around 120k xp an hour last time i did that so i'd say 600-700 casts is more feasible. I doubt you'd get 200k xp an hour bursting lobs, you used to get 220k an hour barraging skeletons.

As the guy doesn't have turmoil/extremes yet, i'd say LBS DPS would still be somewhat higher even for irons, certainly for steels. As for dragon slayer gloves being better, it is VERY debatable, but considering how much time it takes to get them and the fact that you'd be killing dragons quite a bit slower(around 7%) i'd say that it's just not worth it to use the gloves.

You know you could have got the answers for the first two questions just by reading the announcement and the last one by reading an rs manual... Really, i understand asking for help, but right now, the H and A is getting 10 threads a day about the same subject, all contained with the same trivial questions.

Why? it's much easier to go on the forums and cry that the economy is broken.(as in, we all know there really aren't any serious issues here, people just whine when they are put at a disadvantage due to their own intelligence)

The problem with ending before opening all doors is that if those doors aren't bonus rooms you will lose prestige as well as bonus%, thus you can lose up to 40k xp per dungeon by ending before opening all rooms. Sure, sometimes they will all be bonus rooms, costing you 1-3%, but on the off chance they aren't you are giving up a big chunk of xp for what is actually very easy to complete.

With your stats, cls is easily the best for boss hunting.(yes, i'm saying that, even though if you aren't maxed, you should first look to max out, and cls is not a training weapon)

Same as whip, around 1 per 475.

It is impossible to calculate unless you provide us with an accurate pots per hour rate, which can vary greatly(1000-2200). If you have an accurate rate(and you should really test it for yourself, not just go by someone elses numbers) it'll be easy to figure out.

As you can't use wolpertinger yet and need to either pray or heal the best way would be to use unicorn for healing purposes, and that is what i personally do, praying leech mage, deflect mage when needed. As you don't have any good magic boosts(wolpertinger or overloads) you'll just have to bring a big load of ext mages and repot every few minutes. With ABN and otherwise maxed mage gear you should be able to kill 133 wyrms an hour, 166 an hour with cannon.

As melee void is the same as bandos, neit and dark gloves, the loss of defense would be substantial, thus this will not be good for bandos. As for ranged, the new best setup would give a maximum 13 range attack over the previous best void setup, which really isn't good enough, and would only be good for TD's if you changed helms, bodys(arma for void), gloves/shield(void for dark/defender) AND weapon(s). So yeah, if you can switch 4-5 items in no time at all(which i know some can do, but not for a full hour) this new setup would be the best for TD's. For range training on low defence/chinning, this will be part of the best setup. It's a lot better to get range attack bonus than melee attack bonus at td's, so all you really have to switch is still helm and weapon. (that is unless you use a steel titan) I'd rather say that it is much easier and beneficial to have great melee bonuses and use range as little as possible(or whenever needed), but whatever is THE BEST there, you are giving up ALOT to get the best, and with a karils/bandos/neit setup you'd likely get 1-3 kills less an hour while only switching one item and having better defenses across the board. Assuming you don't use a steel titan, the speed of killing is much more determined by how fast you can deal 300 range damage rather than deal 300 melee damage. It's similar to how in a chemical reaction the overall rate of the reaction is approximately equal to the rate of the slowest step in the reaction. Idk why people are so close minded to this new setup >_> I already liked void a lot at Td's before, and now it's even better I'm very much assuming you'd use steel titan and that's why i don't find ranged being that important...And sure, it's better, precisely 10 ranged attack bonus better, which i recall being useless from all the previous chaotic crossbow discussions. Without steel titan, no doubt, it's more beneficial to use the new setup, but why would you not use the titan?