xpx

Renshae, i have never counted hits for accuracy, and the accuracy number is just taken to match my actual melee DPS(~slayer xp) with the maximum DPS figure, thus if maximum melee DPS is 124,8 and i get hit for 111,1, i assume the difference comes from accuracy, but it isn't necessarily true because of the assumption that every hit has equal odds to deliver, you aren't in cobat 100% of the time and you can't hit for more than the monster has HP left. Also, it is extremely unlikely cls is more accurate on supers than rapier is on overloads. EDIT: i did an accuracy test on kurdals dungeon dark beasts with 142 stab, 136 str(fero ring), and over 562 hits i missed 81 times, which is good for 85,6% accuracy. Do keep in mind that this is done on dark beasts with one of the best defense for all slayer monsters.

No, they are mostly meant for showing off and not very hard to get. If there were capes for 120, then yes, it'd be justified(just as 120 dung cape should give atleast some bonuses) of if there would be some bonus stats for having 10/20 or 25 capes, otherwise it's justified that sw/fire and ardy capes are better than skill capes.

isn't it 100 times easier to get a glory amulet(or any of the other 1 click teles)? The only thing the ring is actually good for is farming runs, and i have yet to bother to get it.

It is one of the greatest misunderstandings that it's good to mage tasks you would profit from. No, not only is it a very bad idea, you are lilely to lose out on both gp and xp. If you want to mage slay you should mage tasks that have extremely low magic defense(greaters, black demons, abyssals, ice wyrms etc) and not mage things that have high magic defense(dragons, aquanites, spiritual mages etc). If you only mage tasks you can profit from you will be wasting more money on magic, as the spells hit lower, and will make less money, as you will kill the monsters slower.

You need to wield the specific staff to cast god magics(sara, zammy, guthix or iban) so no, you can't wear a SoL to cast those spells, nor to autocast.

Gold and green charms usually aren't worth it because they offer much lower xp rates and the xp you get is also much more expencive, so unless you really want to get to a specific level it isn't worth to do them, or it is just worth it to train with the lower charms at lower levels(<75). Most high level summoners don't pick up green/gold charms.

my max hit on accurate at kurdals dungeon is 674(fury, defender) and the tip it calc says it should be 669 on agressive, so it's not off by alot, certainly wouldn't change any of the calculations by more than a percentage point. As for the test, i really couldn't be bothered to slay with anything less than extremes, and if we don't both use overloads the results could differ too much(overloads offer a constant boost, where as other potions degrade in use). But if anyone else with a cls wants to try the test themselves, i'd be happy to help.

So, you are postulating that the whip is the most accurate weapon in the game and nothing can hit more accurately than the whip does? If I am understanding your assumption correctly, on what basis are you basing this assumption? But you have got me curious as to the accuracy rate for the cls now. I shall have to start counting my hits to null hits in order to calculate the accuracy rate on the cls.. I'm postulating that an abyssal whip is a very accurate weapon and that the chaotic maul is the most accurate weapon. By the way, i'm up for a dark beast slaying competition, in which we both wear the same armor, use overloads and turmoil and each count the kills we can get in a ~20 minute period, each stating kc after every kill. Going by the same analogy as the earlier calculations... Whip max hit 541 (str bonus 132) average hit 270,5 damage per second with 100% accuracy (speed 2,4 seconds per hit) 112,71 Accuracy bonus 123, cls has 34% more, meaning at max, the cls is 8,2% more accurate. Assuming CLS accuracy stays at 84% as earlier, whip would hit 77,6% of the time. So the total comes to: CLS 91,31(as earlier) Whip = 0,776*112,71 = 87,5 So as we can see from this, at max for low def monsters, the cls is marginally, 4,3% better than the whip, but as we can also see, when accuracy doesn't matter at all, the whip is marginally(3,7%) better than the longsword.

The problem is, you believe that infinite accuracy is possible, but it isn't. I compared an accurate weapons accuracy(whip) to the accuracy of the MOST accurate weapon in game, and assumed that accuracy boosts benefit weapons linearly in that small gap(from 75 to 85% accuracy). This isn't a 100% accurate assumption, but it benefits the longsword more than the rapier, so it is fair for me to use it to prove a point. By this assumption, the longsword can't be more accurate than the most accurate weapon in game, which is very much logical, and thus the accuracy of any weapon can't be more than 85%. If we go by your assumption, the rapier would hit 80% of the time, the longsword would hit 97% of the time and the maul would hit 112% of the time, which is obviously impossible. The more realistic reality is that the rapier hits 80% of the time, the maul hits 85% of the time and the longsword hit's somewhere in between those two, and i assumed that it is 84%(which is an overestimation, but fair in this context).

I still can't fathom how renshae can keep yapping that long... Firstly, when you design a ''scientific'' test it shouldn't particularly favor either of the weapons. Did you do that? No. As anyone with half a brain would understand, the faster weapon benefits much greatly from all stat/accuracy boosts, and by eliminating them you gave the CLS an unfair advantage. A test should always mimic the performance in real life situations, and your's wasn't even close. Secondly, you have absolutely no understanding of accuracy. For most monsters, attack styles matter very little so it's reasonable to compare cls on slash and rapier on stab, that means comparing 124 base slash to 94 base stab. It is reasonable to assume that you can't hit more than 100% of the time, as well as that you can't hit 100% of the time as there will always be misses, so from those two undoubtedly true sentences we can assume accuracy is a hill that gets steeper by the moment, and you are unable to reach the top. What does all this mean? It means that as your accuracy boosts get higher, they won't translate linearly(as you assumed) to how accurate you are. A further proof is that the abyssal whip didn't get any less accurate when either the godsword or chaotic maul were released, even though it should have by your logic, as a much more accurate weapon was released. As of general knowledge, the abyssal whip hits with around 75% on general slayer tasks with low defense(abyssal demons, hellhounds, nechryael etc) and the chaotic maul, with nearly twice the attack bonus, hits with around 85% accuracy on the same monsters. So really, with such a huge boost in accuracy(123 vs 190, 54% boost) you only receive a 13% boost in accuracy. Now, with those in mind, lets do the calculations again. rapier hits every 2,4 seconds, longsword every 3 seconds. Rapier base strength 101, longsword base strength 120, with optimal strength equipment for general monster slaying(neit, bandos, fire cape, fury, dragon boots, defender, dark gloves and berserker(i)) the values are 151 str vs 170 str. Using the tip.it max damage calculator(which is a bit wrong, but it is linearly wrong, so the values will be off by the same amount) we get max damage as: Rapier 599 Longsword 652 Assuming that every positive hit is equally possible we get average damage of 299,5 and 326 for the weapons. Dividing the values by the seconds it takes to deal them gives us an approximate of the DPS(damage per second) of the weapons if they were both 100% accurate. Rapier = 299,5/2,4 = 124,8 Longsword = 326/3 = 108,7 This already shows that when accuracy doesn't matter at all anymore( for instance, killing chickens) the rapier would be alot better than the longsword. But now lets tackle the accuracy. With that same equipment the accuracy boosts for the weapons would be: 136 for rapier, 165 for longsword, which means the accuracy boost is 21% higher. Going by the analogy made earlier and assuming that accuracy is linear in that gap(which it isn't, but this benefits the cls more) 21% boost in accuracy bonus would result in a 5% increase in accuracy from longsword to rapier, so if we assume the rapier to hit 80% of the time(which is consequently my average on most slayer tasks) the longsword will hit 84% of the time, and by adding those to our earlier DPS calculations we get: Rapier = 0,8*124,8 = 99,84 DPS Longsword = 0,84*108,7 = 91,31 DPS Keep in mind, this isn't 100% correct, but it is a very accurate in the way that it agrees with the numbers of in-game experience you would get in an hour with either weapon. The calculations of accuracy are a bit off by way of assuming linear increase in that small gap, but it is easy to understand that them being off benefits the longsword more than rapier. By the way, yes, this shows that for general melee combat training, the rapier is ATLEAST 9,3% better than the longsword, and in many situations where the accuracy will be exactly the same, the rapier will be 14,8% better.

I really don't see how that can be called a waste of time.. I can camp there for 2 full unicorns bringing no food, without overloads or chaotic wearing void, whip, zammy book and rune c bow broad bolts. Thats alot of kills and pretty good income, having solo'd 5 d claws. It might be good, but not efficient, there is a major difference. To be efficient you need to have the best boosts available and meet the minimum requirements(as in, you don't need to be maxed melee, but certainly all 92+ or so). Any newb can solo 2-3 graar in a trip, but soloing 20+ an hour is a whole new story.

I didn't know of the method of getting xp like that, but that is beside the point, the xp rates are still lower than they are for p2p. I know it's very stupid to have the cap introduced at a clear cut level, but really, if it was a linear cap ranging from 30% at level 3 to 50% at level 126, assuming they also remove p2p doors, BUT the xp rates remained the same as they are now, would you be happy? it wouldn't really change the way people dungeoneer or how fast they level, but would be a major nuisance for jagex to make all the changes. What you want is more xp, and really, this, what ever you may think, wouldn't give you more xp. Also to go by the level 90 cap, you can make the argument that it really doesn't matter if you are level 126 or 89, the cap doesn't significantly help you to train the skill- it's unlikely someone is going to get 99-120 dungeoneering before getting 90 combat, and it would be extremely hard to find a team when you are that low combat level. 99% of the people will get 90 combat before even getting to level 80 dungeoneering, and after that, everyone is equal.

eerm...why wouldn't you get maul then? it hits 900 instead of 500 from cls on crafting potions and it really owns for slayer- i usually kill 3 monsters in the same time someone with a rapier kills half a monster(no, they aren't the same monsters, but that's beside the point), and also, since weapon speed can never be determined because of the phenomena of time not having been invented yet, the maul hits around the same speed as the longsword, there is no noticeable difference in the speed of those weapons, and if you want to prove me wrong, please get 100m strength xp on chickens and then count all the feathers you get, take a squareroot and divide with my awesome bh rank, which obviously shows that i'm an awesome pker, even though 10k people are better than me. If the number that you get is bigger than your age cubed, i've just proved you wrong. /troll

Errm, isn't that the point of the thread? Since there isn't enough pie for everyone to share, elitist believe that first comes-first served isn't how they like to be treated. They like to fight for the spot, and really, if they beat someone else out of the spot, great, you've just saved yourself a lot of time in looking for an empty server. At the same time, if anyone of us were to get crashed, we wouldn't just come here and cry about it, we like to compete for a spot, and if we lose, well, better luck next time, just go find a new server. Most of us can't play rs for an infinite time every day, so there is no reason really to waste your time just to be nice to someone you don't know- after all, there is no guarantee they will be nice to you.

How are you going to end a dungeon after a system update? <_< exactly It's likely jagex won't have any major mistakes this time like allowing xp boosts for summoning(which was an obvious mistake), and Dungeoneering will actually likely be the worst to get double xp for(you wil 90% miss out completely on 2,7x multiplier and always get a lower multiplier than what it was when you started the dungeon).

Whoa, this thread just keeps getting better if we can get some nice insight from all these top notch players. I presume Lan is here too to give a little insights of what he thinks about the whole competition so... What are your views on merchanting as a way of making money? We really seem to have two camps out there right now, which side do you consider yourself to be on, and, is all skills 200m your goal or as we have seen for dumgun it is not actually a goal of yours? Oh, and a personal favorite of mine(as it concerns me), do you cancel alot of tasks or do most of the tasks you are given? Also, what will you be doing on the bonus xp weekend? Appreatiate the feedback :smile:

ROFL!! I am dazzled by your logic...'Renshae is...a complete troll..extremely ignorant..[and] wrong." Have you ever heard of the "scientific method?" what? So now you want perfectly executed tests which adhere to scientific processes, yet before you wouldn't acknowledge that the rapier was faster than the longsword? There has been no empirical data submitted on the speed of the two weapons. I have acknowledged that the rapier is a little faster than the cls. However, I have postulated that the increase in speed is not sufficient to overcome the higher strength and attack bonuses of the cls. The above controlled trials would answer that question. "Does the Chaotic Rapier's speed make up for it's deficiencies in attack and strength in comparison to the Chaotic Longsword, enough that it can inflict more damage per unit of time than the Chaotic Longsword?" It is not a little faster, it's 2,4 seconds for rapier, 3 seconds for longsword, so the rapier is 25% faster than the longsword. As for damage, that is a given aswell as the longsword hits around 9% higher, with those out of the way, there is only accuracy left, and with equal accuracy, the rapier is around 15% more efficient, and that's exactly what ALOT of calculations/in game testing has proven. As for CLS being better than the rapier, it all comes down to weather 30 more accuracy is actually worth anything or not, and there really are very few places where it is worth it, and even if it is, the cls would have to hit much more accurately to actually be on par with rapier(~TD's) or beat it(bandos, sara gwd).

His exp in pking does not exceed mine :blink: And to show how great a pker you are you show us a BH rank and a random picture...way to go. Just as a heads up, the best pkers to ever play this game never gained any BH rank. What you call pking is a mere shadow of what it once was. As for comparing rapier and long in duel arena, what would that actually prove? I thought you were supposed to know something about pking, atleast the part that you never, ever use just one style, and in that regard, for pking atleast, the rapier and longsword have very different applications. Also it must be noted that it's easier to ko with a rapier due to the fact that for a turn, you can shark-brew-shark for s longsword hit, but only shark-brew for a rapier hit, and that is very significant. As for pvm, you have provided us with no facts, and it just seems that you are stubborn that you are wasting 100k an hour using the longsword instead of a whip for slayer, and the only places where at maxed stats/ovl/turm a cls is better than rapier are bandos and sara gwd.

By going by the question in the title, no, you can't solo any boss efficiently, you'd need extremes at least to do so(for range bosses), overloads and turmoil for efficient melee solos, and obviously the best chaotic for that boss.

Yes, I understand that there are always people in the world that will never be swayed by the facts and logic, but are rather run around being cast hither and yon based upon their emotions. The facts are clear. If you do not believe me and are seriously considering CLS vs Rapier please go see for your self. Go Kuras and watch a whip, rapier and cls next to each other. Go to Dungeoneering and try out a prom or primal rapier and see if it REALLY is as fast as darts. Check out the real hard verifiable stats on the weps: CLS +20 str over rap; CLS +30 attk over rap; there are no verifiable stats for speed or dsp on the weps; people that quote speed and dsp on the rapier are simply fabricating them. If you already have a rapier...pown ya later . Your logic is that we underestimate cls because we don't have one...do you have a rapier? guessed so. Anyway, For max hits, in kurdals dungeon, rapier maxes at 674(accurate mode, fury, defender), i could be a bit wrong(as i havn't tested it that much and have only seen from other peoples hits) longsword would max at ~730 at the same conditions, so that is 8,3% increase in maximum damage. For accuracy for slayer monsters, on most monsters you will have exactly the same accuracy apart from a few exceptions(skeletal wyverns have great stab def), but lets say, for the sake of an argument that the cls is 5% more accurate on dark beasts(relatively high defense), and even that number is a clear overestimation(accuracy matters very little when you have turm/ovl/slayer helmet). So by that estimation, cls is 113% of the weapon a rapier is, but is 80% as speedy, resulting in an overall percentage of 90% against the rapier- and even that is an overestimation. Clearly, if you are experiencing anything else but cls getting whopped by the rapier, you are just dreaming. For a fact, i have slayed over 8m xp with the rapier already and for melee only tasks(no steel titan, cannon) it is an overall 14% faster slayer xp, and exactly the same rate as with an abyssal whip/zamorakian spear combo for slayer, when comparing the numbers from other people. If you have any clear cut tests of efficiency yourself, we'd all like to see them, but if you don't, your arguments are looking more bleak by the moment. Also, as an absolute proof that this guy is an idiot and that you should not read any of his posts, he is saying that the dragon dagger is faster than an abyssal whip. If you or anyone else thinks so too, i feel very sorry for you.

That's about right, for all other bosses(obviously disregarding corp as none of the weapons are good there) rapier is clearly the best.

I don't know how many night spiders are on the occult floors, but i'm guessing not many, so your best bet would be to do f35 1:1 c6 small alot over and over again, killing the boss as fast as possible, as abandoned floors seem to have the most night spiders.

:wall: :oops: <- two things you should be doing... Td's are around 1/90-100. Gwd bosses don't have great effigy droprates(for the amount you can kill an hour).

Oh dear god... You know, read what you write out loud for a sec, maybe you'd understand how ridiculous it would sound. But really, if you feel that CLS kills things twice as fast as rapier(which would likely mean 70% accuracy boost for cls vs. rapier) then really, who are we to tell you that you are wrong. As long as you have your sword and are happy with it, there is no problem- after all, all of us who have the rapier are profiting from your mistakes. By the way, i use a primal rapier in dungeoneering, and it is 100% the best weapon for melee dps on low defense or stab weak monsters. And really, comparing primal rapier(in dungeoneering) to CLS(in real runescape) to try to prove a point just shows how clueless you really are. Anyone with half a brain can see trough your ''why the hell did i get this piece of **** instead of rapier'' remorse. Gud on ya. Oh, and really, rapier hits at about the same speed as darts/knives, There is no noticeable difference if you have your eyes shut :thumbsup:

Interesting reads, Drumgun. About the moneymaking part, why did you specifically choose abyssal demons? As far as i'm concerned, they havn't been camp-worthy since whip prices dropped below ~6m and it's not really significant money/charms now or when you did it. I see that you have tried your hands at boss hunting, but really, if you are to play 19 hours a day, frost dragons/tormented demons would be a perfect place for you to camp and get all the money in the world. Neither of them is great xp, but the fact that you can get 4m profit an hour while also getting an effigie every 90 minutes would make it well worth it with the goals that you have in mind. The effigies could easily cure the problem of a lack of slayer xp(~up to 40k slayer xp an hour at those places while still getting the money). As for you still trying to achieve the goal first, i really can't see you as a frontrunner with the methods that you have chosen. Sure, playing two times as much as other people is a good method, but sooner or later you'll understand that you will be severely limited in trying to efficiently train your skills, and when that is going to slow you down, there are alot of other people ready to just keep on going. It is extremely likely that slayer could be the wall in your way, and if it isn't slayer, farming could also become a problem if you don't focus on it in the next year or so. Even though all these failiures and mishaps in trying to foresee future updates, you are still very much up there as one of the very best skillers today, and if it weren't for your crazy methods, you wouldn't be half as well known(that str xp gain was crazy, and nolife summoning on top if it made it even more of a laugh, congratz on that).