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Waterfiends....yea, that's all I got. I stand corrected, yes CM would be better for fiends. I havn't done fiends in months, since I'm 99 summoning, so I didn't consider that. However, one task still doesn't change the utility CM has for slayer to a significant enough amount to make it a worthwhile purchase simply for slaying. Well, realistically, a CLS is just as good as maul for slayer as they both have one tasks they are best for- wyverns for CLS, fiends for maul, although i don't think this makes them particularly worthwhile to get for slayer, HOWEVER, if you look at it from a summoning standpoint, rapier is the WORST melee weapon(both wyverns and fiends are great crimson charms, second best to barraging lobs).

I don't see the correlation in you getting the level to make overloads and torstols crashing, sorry. But if you look at it from an intelligent standpoint, alot of torstol was removed from the market, but at the same time, alot more people need torstol now. So realistically, in a situation where the demand has rose, and the supply has dried up, the basic principles of economics tell you that..... I think you can go from there :twisted:

Warriors wearing chains or only legs, wouldn't you be better with a rapier? Since they have lower stab/low defence respectively. Rangers and mages are both generally weak to stab/slash, so the rapier performs well on those. The only forgotten class I can see the rapier being bad against are the Forgotten Warriors wearing platebodies. I mostly meant the full armored ''primal'' warriors or earth warriors because those are really the toughest and longest to kill for any melee monster, even with a 2h. And well, realistically, because the difference in accuracy bonus is so huge(twofold), the rapier will not shine against any melee armored monster. For occult floors, mercifully, there are very few armored monsters, and the special monsters are usually very weak to stabbing attacks(dragons, demons, hellhounds, ghosts), making rapier more useful on occult than it was on abandoned floors.

no, they are dramatically different. Not THAT(obviously comparing to accuracy bonuses) dramatically different, they are not. By the way, the max hit with prom spear and primal rapier is exactly the same with ~t7 berserker, so keep that in mind. Prom 2h hits 27% higher than primal rapier so for low defense or stab weak monsters rapier will be much better than 2h(and there are actually alot of low defense monsters on the new occult theme, most of them being high-kill priority.

Ooh, thanks, really happy about the promotion actually, but i guess this just means that i'll have to work harder to make the guide better and more elaborate. On popular request I added a video of killing frost dragons with a war tortoise that i felt was sufficiently efficient enough to be a part of this guide. All credits to the author of the vid, though.

My guide should give you a general idea of how to kill them, but for a more experienced point of view from someone who uses a tortoise.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdm5cn1RZCQ

I can do all the tasks apart from the balmung one, since i havn't completed the quest yet, but it will likely take quite some time to do them- i havn't even completed any lumby, fally or seers tasks. The experience rewards look good, good enough to give me almost 95-96 rc. The other rewards don't seem that impressive, though some will be useful. Really interested in the stats of the elite items, so if anyone has any pictures...(ardy cloak 4 is the same as it was before).

It's actually funny how you try to be objective by comparing attack bonuses, but not strength bonuses. If you don't compare both, it's useless to even compare them. For speed, it's a 100% asset. While 200% attack bonus will mean you will be more accurate, you will never be 200% as accurate as with rapier. If your weapon is 50% faster, you will be 50% faster no matter what. As you will likely see, the strength bonuses of the mentioned weapons aren't that dramatically different, and when you factor in that bonuses will be used much better on a faster weapon, rapier will always be better than spear for stabbing and slashing. As i already said, as a general weapon, assuming you can only take one, the 2h is better because you will be near useless with rapier on forgotten warriors, BUT, on the other hand, as everyone uses 2hs and battleaxes, you will be a greater asset to your team with a rapier than 2h/battleaxe as you will kill those monsters faster that they will kill slowly. No one weapon is always better than all others when it comes to 5:5 teams. Rapier is also better for c1's, which is a nice bonus.

The usefulness of the hood rises dramatically according to how many people on a given team already have hoods. As i said, it doesn't make a major difference when 4 people have platebodies and one has hood, as 1/4 of the melee/range monsters will attack each guy with plate, and the damage isn't that dramatic. However, and this is much more likely to happen nowadays(when most people already have hoods) when all the other people have hoods and you have plate/body, you might aswell quit the team at start because lets face it, if there isn't a mage in the room, you'll be attacked by ALL the monsters while everyone else will be secure. The hood might not be that great of an item on occult floors, but because nearly everyone has one, you have to have it aswell. As for bows, a hexhunter bow is always worth binding due to it's sheer rarity. Sagittarian bows, however, are a completely different matter. Firstly, they are only good for a very limited amount of monsters, and secondly, the difference between a saggitarian bow and a grave creeper bow(which are immensely easy to make in any dungeon) is ridiculously small, so if you have any common sense at all, you'd never bind any other bow than hexhunter. For staves, a celestial cat staff is worth binding when you have 3 binds and are looking to mage quite a bit, but otherwise, as with ranged, a good staff is fairly easy to be made, or you could mage without one(as the targets would have serious negative defense bonus anyway).

Thought for the attack bonus. But i have realized it's not a good choice. But i wish your first post in this topic was about the topic :unsure: I think the point was, since you shouldn't be using the defender anyway, your point about using the rapier together with the defender is pointless since it is not practical anyway. Therefore, right away we can say "no" to your immediate question, since the defender is really never worth using. But on the larger question of whether the rapier or the other weapons are better, the rapier really isn't outstanding. Good speed, yes, but the Spear isn't much slower and is far more effective. You can trade in even more speed for a 2H sword, which absolutely rips apart monsters the rapier couldn't touch, aided further by the fact that you can use crush AND slash attacks with the Berserker Class Ring (I believe the Rapier can only slash aggressively, not stab, and it certainly can't crush, which is an extremely important battle style to have). This brings up another point, the rapier doesn't have crush. It trades that instead for stab, which is more or less useless. Crush helps enormously on skeletons, forgotten warriors, and earth warriors. Stab helps on what? Giants? They have pathetic defense as it is. Dragons? They're too rare to really be concerned about, and if your team piles it with slash attacks, it won't present much of a challenge. So much of Dungeoneering is focused on hitting hard on your opponent's weak spot. Thus, the rapier is pretty impractical, despite its speed. Facts, my dear friend, facts. Not a strong point of yours....but i'm not taking it much further this time. Firstly, we have heard the speed debate lots on the CLS vs. CR thread, and if you look at the thread more closely, anyone who says that the speed of weapons ''isn't much slower'' or ''is barely noticeable'' is extremely ignorant. 25% speed over spear and 50% speed over 2h is more than significant. Secondly, rapier has the use of ALL the ring of kinship customizations, being able to use tactician on stab, berserker on STAB AND SLASH and tank with a shield. Downplaying stab as much as you did is also funny, because actually, stab is the attack most used on a spear, which used to be the best weapon before ring customizations. You also forget that everyone and their dog has a 2h or a battleaxe bound so most teams are weak to the stab aspect of dungeons anyway, while rapier may be weak against higher def or armored monsters, it is ton's better on a number of other monsters- if high level monos were done with rapiers only, they would be a breeze. As i said, as an overall weapon and no stat boosts, rapier is not a better overall weapon than the 2h, but because of what most people have bound, it is very useful to have one or two on your team.

The ring effects faster weapons more than slower ones...for obvious reasons. The rapier is a great complementary weapon, but not overall better than the 2h. A team with 4 2h's and a rapier is better than a team with 5 2h's, so there are some great uses for it. Assuming you are 100+ dg and have hood and blood necklace bound, it just might be the best overall dps weapon(it's great on shades/rangers/ghosts and low def monstes right now, really weak on warriors and some bosses).

have someone else smith one....? obviously

onyx(i), berserker(i), archer(i) and seer(i) are the best ones out there. Dragonstone(i) is recommended for welfare purposes.

Yes to both, but the first is very situational. Normal antifire potions+protect/deflect magic offer 100% protection from dragonfire, so in places you would normally use the protection prayer anyway, you wouldn't really need super antifire if you don't want the free herblore xp(most likely 96 or 99+ herblore). The most common place where you DON'T necessarily need to use supers is frost dragons, but there, it is still recommended to use because of a) soul split flicking b) free herblore xp.

It's a good idea but considering it's already very click intense, not suited for everyone, but i'll be sure to mention it on the guide. For the banking part, you should seriously consider bringing some summoning potions with you to be able to bank unlimited bones.

I think one of the most important things about binding has yet to be mentioned on the thread(although it has been a small part of some of the posts)- when choosing what to bind you have to take into account what other people have binded. The most simple example of this is the usefulness of shadow silk hood- when there is only one person using it on a dungeon and the other 4 have plates/leatherbodies, the overall average damage people receive isn't very different, however, if you are the only person on a team without a hood, you are screwed, so the fact that some people have hoods forces others to get them aswell. The same, actually, goes for weapons aswell. Although there has been alot of discussion about of either 2h/battleaxe being best, this fact actually increases the usefulness of the weapons on the other side of the table- namely fast stab weapons. If there are 4 prom 2hs/prim battleaxes on your team(and there usually are), you'd be MUCH better with a primal rapier than 2h/battleaxe for dps. Why? because on the monsters that the other people are weak on, you are at your strongest, and visa versa. I am guessing that on a perfect team there would be 2h, battleaxe, spear, longsword and rapier, since the average damage output of all the top end weapons is barely noticeable. As for a 3rd bind(as there is no question weapon+hood is best before 100 dg, hex bow not included in the discussion), one of the weaknesses of a leatherbody that has yet to be discussed is the negative accuracy bonus on it, which can be extremely significant for the faster weapons. I'd say that you should only consider leatherbody as your 3rd bind if you don't key and use 2h/maul. As for the blood necklace, one underrated thing about it is that is one of very few items in the whole of dungeoneering that boosts your accuracy bonus aswell as strength, thus allowing for faster kills. I would consider binding blood necklace if you use spear/rapier/longsword or battleaxe and you feel comfortable with the damage you receive with 2 binds. Otherwise, a platebody is still a great 3rd bind for most situations. For 4 binds i would go for weapon+hood+necklace+leatherbody, just because it's doubtful you'd need much more defense for the dungeons and it's a great compromise. For the record, i got my dungeoneering level having spear/warhammer/rapier as the weapon and prom plate for defense, and i've got to say, the difference in overall damage you receive on a 5 plate team is barely higher than on a 5 hood team, but if over two people on the team have a hood, the others will be severely compromised. Now, with the newer additions, i have rapier and hood bound.

You can have as many eggs as you like.... i have like 11 blue ones from slayer.

Have you ever heard of efficiency? He doesn't have 85+agility/96+summoning or an endless supply of ferocious rings, so it'd be very inefficient to bank bones. Also, if you can make 4m an hour and value your time higher than that(xp is money) it'd also be inefficient to bank bones even with a yak. Just as you asked if he is insane, the real question i should ask you is: are you poor?(as it is much more relevant) if it takes you extra time to bank bones with yak (i.e. slows down your xp), urdoinitrong It will slow you down, no matter what. The degree of slowing largely depends on how active you are, and i agree, at the best pace and no lag, the difference would be barely noticeable, but still there(the drop piles would always need to be within 2,4 seconds within 90 seconds, and at max pace, they aren't). Also you have to consider the sheer amount of additional attention you have to pay, which is very noticeable(and sooner or later will slow you down). If you are telling me that you can play with full attention efficiently, good for you, but most, if not nearly all players won't be able to play as long hours with full attention as they would with half-afk training, with the only loss being lower charms and dragon bones, which aren't a major loss. By the way, i am not talking about an hour a day, just to be clear.

Or the best cw armor, but those would be just terribly stupid(and highly unlikely). But again, as said earlier, nothing should be off limits.

The only way to realistically train with them is to loot zombie impling jars as the droprates from big bone droppers are awfully low(1/200 from fire giants or so).

It's mostly down to chance- if you have luck and can get him down to 1/4 health within 2-3 rounds, you stand a chance in beating him. Remember, the minimum damage one round takes is 1739 lp(2,75 brews), and it's usually much more, so if you can't do much damage within the first round it'd be smart to quit and try again.

are you kindding? Slayer xp at the lower levels is roughly proportional to melee xp and the 600 tasks is roughly proportional to 13m xp with kurdal, there is no way at all you will need more than 100 tasks for for 1-75 slayer unless you burthope alot.

You're not the best because you face adversity. You're the best when you get the best results. Being the best also means having the best stuff, f2p or not. Being the most skilled, however, I think it might be true. I think there is much more skill involved in p2p large dungeons than f2p larges with medium level monsters, most impressive however, he might just be. To whoever said that it's sad to not consider top players results on this weekend impressive or not- they are going to be putting in the hours no matter what, but if they can save 13 hours of training by nolifing on a specific weekend, it seems logical to me that they do. achieving this ridiculous goal is mostly about doing things smart, and it'd be smart to go all out now(for example, it is a massive disappointment skiller(or any of the other top players) didn't do 12 hours of herblore for 20m xp because without the bonus, it would take 20+ hours, but i think this more or less shows the monetary situation of those top players.

Lets just hope that the results of the tests aren't similar to the calculations done earlier where the maul guy will be contacted by 1200 of 1000 girls :shock:

Also you should always use a penace (master) horn for less boring training. It can boost your xp rates by up to 1,5 times depending on how efficient you are in BA, but will certainly lessen the grind of normal agility.