Mischlings

Assuming 1m an hour, I believe that the current best methods are making regular energy potions or making prayer potions from unfinished potions -- I'm not entirely sure, though. I'll have to check. EDIT: Nix the prayer potions. They're not worth it anymore, though they were earlier in the week. The market for herblore shifts so often that it's difficult to be sure what is the best at any given time.

The only thing holding you back is the fact that you don't have 88 summoning and therefore access to a unicorn, but even without one, it's entirely possible to kill them effectively. It's a great quest, especially if you love lore/plot lines, so that too makes it worth doing. Now, be aware that most of the money from killing Tormented Demons comes from one rare drop (dragon claws, 1 in ~300 kills), so it's not the most consistent money, but it averages out to a very hefty profit. Is it worth it to do the quest? I think so -- it might take a while to get the 50 quest points, but I think that it's worth it.

Looking at your combat stats, I see the possibility of Tormented Demons -- I don't know if you've done While Guthix Sleeps, though. You won't get them at full efficiency, but it'll still be a good method to make money -- you just need patience.

Or the "Mininggolds" or "Mining golds" clan chats -- I personally think that those are better than just using world 84, but that might just be me. Look them up on RSOF before you join, though -- they have some rules and don't like when people break them.

Except that he doesn't have 80 mining. I would think that mining and superheating gold is still the best even without using concentrated gold, however.

Kuradal. As long as you have the requirements, just fix the fairy ring and use her for pretty much every task. As for boring tasks, well you can either block or find a faster way to do it. She has really long tasks, but I find that trade-off to be worth it -- more time spent on task, less need to run around, but you do need better stats/more supplies.

Also, if you play around with the market a bit, you can make a profit getting herblore xp by cleaning herbs. No, it isn't the fastest xp, but you can manage a profit, a real rarity in herblore. I go back and forth between making potions and cleaning herbs, mostly depending on if I have the money to dump into making potions at the time. Also, you can easily just get 84 and use greenman's ales to get the boost needed for super antifires. That's what I'm doing at the moment, but I do have a goal for 90 something, depending on just how high I want/need. Really, with herb cleaning, it can make money, but it might just kill your wrists. I would recommend balancing that with making potions. Just make sure that you have a consistent source of income which you can use to pay for the potions (for me, I use herb farming and bolt fletching, but you can use whatever you want to make money). Depending on the market, a lot of the cheaper potions can be very efficient -- at the moment, I believe that prayer potions are the most efficient (considering both cost and time) outside of the extreme potions.

I've been very hesitant to consider barrows for a few reasons. First, they give bonuses for full sets, but that means I'd have to use that set's weapon, and you already stated that whip is good. Second, it's an item that degrades and is quite expensive to repair. Lastly, there are four sets for me to choose for since I'm a melee fighter, and I'm not sure which would be best. The cost of repairing barrows is relatively insignificant. You also don't need the weapon to get the defence -- I haven't used a full barrows set in months but use the armour on a nearly daily basis. Most of the time, I use only the body and legs, meaning that it costs just above 10k per hour to use the equipment (170k to repair both pieces, degrade completely after 15 hours), which is even less if you can get access to an armour stand to repair the armour in your house (or someone else's). Also, if you can, get helm of Neitiznot -- it's one of the best helmets for average use in the game (excluding things like Slayer). Gamo covered most of the rest of it, unless you want to get into slayer, at which point it becomes an entirely different (and more expensive) situation.

Up to 990 LP as of now -- will probably increase in the future with boosting items.

I know that is the case, but it's become much more difficult (at least it seems so to me) to get an order through that will actually profit without leaving it in to sell overnight. I also don't have the cash pile to keep training while I wait to buy at a reasonable price (13m at the moment) so that might be a factor.

Or has herb cleaning pretty much become a money losing way to get herblore xp as opposed to making money like it used to? At least for the last few days, I have found it almost impossible to get any herbs for prices that I could actually sell for a profit. Even going as low as irits, everything either lost money or was nearly impossible to buy (Torstol and Wergali are impossible to buy). I know that, in theory, most should be profitable, but it's almost impossible to get most grimy herbs at med price and just as difficult to sell them at med. Has this been going on for a while, or is it a new thing? And is it likely to stay this way?

Well, I have a HP Touchsmart laptop, and a recent discussion on a different forum led me to see just how fast I can skill with this. I have used it before, but never really testing the limits of it. Well, here's what I've managed to figure out so far (all of these are relatively theoretical and it's very difficult to keep this up for a long time): 72k bolts per hour 7,200 herbs cleaned per hour Firemaking is the same speed, but much easier Unfortunately, it really only speeds up training when you have to click rapidly, similar to mousekeys, but it's much more difficult to right click, so that is a bit of a limitation. Still, I'm really liking these numbers.

I would say go with more prayer potions -- when we recommend praying, we mean the duration of the task. It's expensive, but speeds up tasks by A LOT. You don't have to, of course, but try at least one task like Gargoyles with and without a boosting prayer for the entire task to see if you think the difference is significant and possibly worth it for you. Why are you going to keep all those runes in your inventory all the time? Slayer gem isn't necessary, but it's another personal preference thing. Other than that, it looks pretty good. I would look at getting a soul wars cape at some point, which I now think is the best cape in the game (I used to think it was fire cape, but now I think Soul Wars cape is better) -- though Nomad is a pain. Like I said, though, so far it's looking pretty good.

King Black Dragon: That probably is the best, but for those of us without 99, it's a little more up in the air. I would either use a unicorn or a geyser, depending on just how much healing I would need. Hellhounds: To each their own. I've thought of blocking them and I might. Maybe once I have more ranged xp (92 range, 95 melees) I'll decide that they're not really worth keeping around. Jungle Strykewyrms: I prefer the "summon and forget" method of using a bunyip over having to use unicorn scrolls. Assuming you'd only need 1 antipoison pot for the entire task (seems like a reasonable estimate), you'd have to use 6 or fewer scrolls to (monetarily) justify using the unicorn.

(I'm not going to quote all the familiar stuff -- would make this way too long) Spectres: I prefer the better herb drops, and with a ring of dueling/slayer ring, banking is exceedingly easy. This, however, is often down to personal preference, as I don't think there's a huge difference in profitability. Abyssal Demons: It's definitely possible to manage an entire task without a beast of burden for prayer potions, but that leaves me with almost no space to pick up drops until I go through a few prayer potions. I can heal as much as necessary with SGS specs, so I figure that a bunyip is overkill. Also, they have a ton of good drops, so a beast of burden for the drops is really helpful. Black Dragons: Referring to the KBD, I assume? I'm not sure the best way to kill him in all honesty. Dark Beasts: I figured that that would work -- I'll try it next time I get a task. Desert Strykewyrms: I know unicorn is better, but I manage pretty well with just a bunyip. Next task I get I would definitely take a unicorn as you never have to really fight for your life with it like you do with a bunyip, but a bunyip is definitely feasible. Gargoyles: These are a troublesome one for me to choose, as I don't need any more healing than bunyip, so I figure that a beast of burden would be the best to use to bring more supplies/take back more drops. This is one of a few that I'd see it viable to do with a forager/no familiar. (See my note on hellhounds) Hellhounds: I range and cannon these in Taverly, hence the difference. There is no need for any type of familiar there, so you might as well take a forager or similar. They're not that horrible -- actually a decent task speed-wise if you cannon. Ice Strykewyrms: Didn't think of the wolpertinger. I keep forgetting the scroll's effect. Jungle Strykewyrms: Using super anti poisons, a bunyip overheals me unless I get hit by the burrow attack often. Also, the unicorn gives no immunity to poison, so you'll have to cure it over and over and over. Kalphites: I don't actually kill these, so I'm not sure what exactly to do about them. Last time I cannoned any was probably about 2 years ago before I really got into summoning. Living Rock Creatures: Again, I'm not sure, but for the ~30 or so kills I've done on task (I left in the middle and cancelled out of frustration), it seemed that not even the bunyip would have been necessary -- they just don't hit that hard. Mithril Dragons: For really small tasks, yes unicorn would be best, but the beast of burden can let you do pretty much any length task without banking. Nechryaels: I find it difficult to stay at full hp without a bunyip, though of course turmoil/soul split makes a difference. I personally use a combat familiar and take a saradomin brew instead of a super defence for the extra healing. Spiritual Mages: Another task that I'm never really sure on -- the combat familiar isn't that big of a difference in speed, but I just make sure that I'm always under attack and let him take the ones that I'm not focusing on attacking at that moment. I don't have and don't plan on raising a hawk. Really, you can pretty much do this task without a familiar and not be missing all that much. Well, that's my justification for each of these. A lot of them probably hinge on personal preference in addition to the fact that I lack soul split/turmoil. Those were just my suggestions -- I don't claim that they're the absolute best choices, just that they're good choices.

Once you have soul split/turmoil (as bedman said), a bunyip becomes pretty obsolete, but unless you have those, you'll use it on quite a few tasks. Here's what I use or would recommend using on every task: Aberrant Spectres: Macaw (better herb drops, combat familiar if banking is undesired) Abyssal Demons: Beast of Burden (to carry more prayer potions, use bunyip if no SGS/Soul Split) Black Demons: Beast of Burden (to carry more drops) Black Dragons: Beast of Burden for regular black dragons, Combat familiar for baby black dragons, unsure about KBD Bloodvelds: Combat familiar with cannon Blue Dragons: Beat of Burden to carry bones (hides probably aren't worth banking unless using yak scrolls) Dagannoths: Combat familiar Dark Beasts: Beast of burden for prayer potions (unicorn for tanking might work) Desert Strykewyrms: Bunyip Dust Devils: Combat familiar Fire Giants: Bunyip if cannoning in waterfall, combat familiar if fighting in chaos tunnels Gargoyles: Beast of burden for prayer potions/drops (use bunyip if no SGS) Greater Demons: Bunyip in Kuradal's Dungeon Hellhounds: Forager (no need for room for drops, can be safespotted, non-multi combat) Ice Strykewyrms: Not sure (only 90 slayer), probably Beast of Burden for prayer potions Iron Dragons: Beast of burden for bones Jungle Strykewyrms: Bunyip (don't forget super antipoisons) Kalphites: Combat familiar with cannon Living Rock Creatures: Not sure, never done a full task Mithril Dragons: Beast of burden for bones/bars drops Nechryaels: Combat familiar (hard to live off SGS alone, might want to bring food, though if you don't have a good combat familiar just use a bunyip) Skeletal Wyverns: Beast of burden for bones Spiritual Mages: Combat familiar (will probably die near the end of the task) Steel Dragons: Beast of burden for bones Suqahs: Combat familiar with cannon Terror Dogs: Combat familiar (you will need food, though) TzHaar: Combat familiar Warped Tortoises: Beast of burden to carry drops (you will get a ton of good money drops here) Waterfiends: Unicorn (bunyip can work, but you'll be low hp most of the time without a good number of raw fish drops) The only difficulty with this is that you don't have SGS, or really good combat familiars. You can get away with using a Karamthulhu Overlord until you get the level for good combat familiars (though Obsidian Golem is one level up from your current and is better than the overlord, so you might want to get that). A unicorn is almost overkill for most tasks (like I said above, I can't think of many that you might need it for), so you don't need 88 for that. However, the really good combat familiars start at 89, so that poses a bit of a conundrum. I disagree with bedman over cannoning -- I cannon or recommend cannoning a lot of tasks, as the difference in speed is quite notable, and 1) I need the ranged xp and 2) care about speed for slayer xp more than how much it costs me. It's a money losing proposition in the short term to cannon, but it gets a lot of otherwise tedious tasks done quickly.

Quick correction: raw fish are lower -- 20k/4hr. I've noticed that many times when flipping using fish that the limit is 20k.

When you get 89 summoning, the geyser titan is a great combat familiar, bested by the wolpertinger, iron titan, then steel titan. You should always do tasks in multi-combat with a combat familiar (especially if using a cannon) because the speed increase is definitely worth it. Sure, you'll have to juggle healing a slight bit more, bringing food or some other method of healing, but the speed increase is definitely worth it. Also, if you're meleeing tasks and want xp in a different stat, combat familiars can do that too. It isn't until 89, however, that they really become worth it. As for the rest of what Ezkaton said, he pretty much hit it right on the nose. Slayer never loses money (in the long term -- you can easily lose money on individual tasks (pretty much every cannon task in multi-combat is a money losing task except aberrant spectres) but it evens out), so definitely invest in super potions/prayer potions. For example, I spend ~250k on prayer potions per abyssal demon task and get a whip every 3 or so tasks. Something like that can pay for several tasks' worth of prayer potions, super potions, cannonballs, and other things. If you're interested in boss hunting, I think you should get your stats up. Train melee up with slayer, then eventually make your way up to boss hunting. I've trained my melee stats up almost exclusively through slayer since ~75 melees and I'm at 95 now -- it's definitely worth it. I don't know how much money I've made, as I often take breaks from slaying and do other things, which either make or lose money, so I can't really make a good estimate. If you stick to it for the long haul that you'd need in order to get higher stats for boss hunting, you should make enough money to cover most of the costs you'd have to get equipment and stats up (unless you're shooting for turmoil/overloads or something crazy like that).

Blues make it more expensive, but they do save time. It's a trade off. I think they're worth using, but that could just be me. Greens are good if you make fruitfall scrolls or unicorn pouches/scrolls (usually for your own use, but the scrolls sell well and can be a good return on investment). As for golds, I would use them, but they're actually pretty slow, though quite cheap.

Crashing is, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable. Do I like being crashed? Hell no -- I fight for my spot, unless it's a fight I can't win (138 vs 130 at Tormented Demons -- I'm just going to finish killing this one and hop), but if they're more powerful than I am, I give in and let them have the world. It's nothing more than motivation for me to get my levels higher so I don't have to be crashed. I still think that people should have the decency to try and hop -- look to see if there's a world empty before running in and killing the demons I have carefully lured. I rarely crash worlds (the only places I really crash are Dagannoths or Fire Giants with a cannon, and that's mostly because it'd take me forever to find an empty world), but if I was forced to (for example, hopping 6 times to find each world being used), I feel I'm fully within my rights to do so. I don't think anyone likes being crashed, but the only thing you can do is leave or take preventative measures (claws+spec restore pots is one of the best methods).

Only negative I see is that it is impossible to get torstol potions (unf) on the GE, due to the fact that they're only worth ~8k and Torstol are worth ~22k. Also, magic potions should be in there somewhere (I think) -- they're a really good combination of cheap and fast, managing something like 450k an hour if you're Zarfot (meaning less for us mortals), but I'm not completely sure what the costs come out to, but it's pretty cheap from what I can tell, especially if you ever plan on using them (not sure how many you'd use in all honesty).

The GE makes it very easy to buy pots, so no, DONT make inefficient pots, just because you need them. Also, bladewing was referring to the fact that it's better to clean herbs and get 100-150k xp an hour and profit, than to make pots, gain 200k xp an hour, and make huge losses, UNLESS you make 4M an hour. He doesn't factor in how hard cleaning herbs is though, IMO. Oh, okay, I was wondering what he was saying -- it wasn't entirely clear. And cleaning herbs is difficult -- I'd do it for the levels if I could, the problem is that they're so hard to buy and sell consistently -- my current method is buying grimy herbs, cleaning them, and selling unfinished potions. It actually works better than I had expected -- it's not so much for xp as it is for profit, which it does make.

So, because I wasn't overly rigorous in that statement, you interpret it in the most broad way possible? I would think that context would make it clear what I'm talking about. As I said before, the way the game is designed, you get bigger or you get out. Yes, someone can take up most of the black demon room with a cannon (not all of it, believe it or not). In other places, you can take up an entire room by killing everything in the room at top speed using super potions. Should you ban super potions because it ruins that room for anyone else? Should they be taken out? Are you kidding? You hop worlds and find another place. And if it's somewhere where there's always a cannon, well you're out of luck -- if you can't compete with the cannon, either get one of your own or get out. This isn't a grey area by any stretch of the imagination. On the topic of people coming in and just setting it up, a large number of people will hop until they find an empty world to start fighting (most people, not all -- also, in some places, like Dagannoths, there are just too many people in all worlds, and besides, there are so many spawns that you can't possibly take up all of them on your own.) It's an extension of your own combat ability, just like any upgrade in equipment. Yes, there is a lot of buying levels -- it's called emergent gameplay. The game was originally designed differently, yes, but it started to take a different direction. Someone realized "Hey, I can save a lot of time if I pay people to collect X for me) and they did. It probably wasn't intended to be that way, but that's what happened. And you know what? In almost 10 years of updates, Jagex has consistently done almost nothing about it. Just because you oppose the idea doesn't mean that I don't have every right to do it. Your style of gameplay is different from mine -- the great thing about this game is that I don't HAVE to play the way that you do, and you don't HAVE to play the way that I do, either. We will have to agree to disagree on this -- the way I play is consistent with the rules, just uses things that you don't like. You don't like using anything that you bought and I prefer to buy things if it's more convenient for me. No one is breaking any rules, and everyone has the right to play however they want within the rules. I don't see what the big problem here is.

Um, you know that making unfinished pots can be in the vicinity of 2m per hour, if not higher? It's one of the best ways to make money that isn't intermittent (flipping, farming, dailies) or highly luck based (TDs, GWD, etc).

Brilliant strawman argument -- I never said anything about buying things with real money. How about you actually argue against the points I bring up? I am buying the advantage with money that I earned IN THE GAME by PLAYING THE GAME. Jagex put cannons in the game on purpose, and they allowed their use in a large number of places. You seem to limit your potential by not using a cannon -- that's fine, I just prefer to use my full potential. Jagex themselves said that their rules are essentially "get bigger or get out" -- the cannon is part of it, just as much as using a whip over a dragon scimitar or using Dragon Claws for specs. And I'm feeble for not making my own ammo? I'm feeble by giving money to others to do a task that I don't want to do myself? They value the money more than the cannonballs, I value the cannonballs more than the money. I don't see where anyone loses here. If Jagex intended us to make the ammo for the cannon ourselves, they wouldn't have made the cannonballs tradeable.