Are we slowing down evolution?

[highlanders]

Omg, another boring philosophical thread 'everything is relative' and argument poking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say that technology makes us move towards our future.

 

 

 

What do you want us to do? Live in tents, in the middle of the jungle, picking fruits and trapping small animals as food? Wow, now that would be useful!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree people don't move enough. But that's just a passing tendency, it wont last. if you ever watched science fiction, people move, battle, etc. Looks like you're imagining that the future human would be a fat american sitting on his bum in front of TV. LOL, no.

[warri0r45]

Saru, please take warr's advice and read a frikking book on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But for the sake of discussion, what of evolution seems flawed to you? Don't give me some general statement like "it doesn't feel right", let's hear an answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A big ditto on that one. Tell us the parts you don't find credible and I'll see if I can make more sense of it for you. Lionheart put it pretty well. An understanding of genetics makes evolution incredibly simple and logical and I suggest you get a basic knowlege of genetics as well.

[Flametrooper]

Well, I mean look at it, what proof do you have about evolution? No offence, but I can say, I am God, and everyone else is just my slave. Now, its just a theory, but maybe one day it will be fact?

 

 

 

Well, for one, Evolution has way way way way more proof, evidence, facts, and educated guesses behind it then this does. You made that up. Darwin didn't make evolution up, he arrived at it after a series of observations and the use of logic to draw conclusions. That's this thing that scientists do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, you people seem to think that evolution and God are incompatible. They're not. I think I said this on another thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third, though evolution is only a theory, so is God, you could say. Evolution is pretty close to the truth. it may not be the whole, absolute, total truth, but it's pretty close.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think of this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The red circle in the center is the Truth. Each blue dot is a person. Each person can only see part of the truth. Person A sees part of the turth, but person B sees a totally different part, and person C sees a part similar to, but different from, person A's. Now each person says "My view's right!" and more people come and look at it from their point of view and think this little part of the truth is, in fact, the Truth. But it's not. The person on the other side of the room sees part of the Truth too, he's not "wrong" just because this part is different from someone else's part. See what I'm saying?

[Rebdragon]

^I've always thought of Truth, or objective Truth, as a pie chart, and our subjective truths were slices that were both partially inside and outside of the Truth pie. That's a pretty good way of putting it too though; it gets the exact same point across pretty much.

[xvillexvalox]

Evolution of humans, I have no idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, the evolution of bacterias and germs that we are "protecting" agianst is being forced to evolve faster. The ingredients in the hand sanitizers thats kills bacteria helps it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Kills 99.9% of bacteria", well that .1% will become immune to the bacteria killers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even now, there are already some bacterias we could aviod before, but have evolved past our defenses and we stand no chance of protecting against.

[Lionheart_0]

Evolution of humans, I have no idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, the evolution of bacterias and germs that we are "protecting" agianst is being forced to evolve faster. The ingredients in the hand sanitizers thats kills bacteria helps it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Kills 99.9% of bacteria", well that .1% will become immune to the bacteria killers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even now, there are already some bacterias we could aviod before, but have evolved past our defenses and we stand no chance of protecting against.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^^ Pure truth.

 

 

 

Next time you go to your local hospital (Or hopefully you dont), check out the different area's of the whole building. You will notice that there are different kids of soap almost everywhere. If they used the same soap throughout the building, the bacteria would start to gain immunity to the soap, and it wouldn't work anymore.

[apinagez]

I have read something interesting about it.

 

 

 

Evolution happens when there are crossings between different populations, exposed to different conditions. For instance: one population from North Africa meets a population from Southern Europe, when there was still a connection between the continents. They settle down and reproduce. Some of their children will be more apt than others, because they have gotten the best of the two groups.

 

 

 

However, as we approach the concept of a "global population", the differences between the different groups tend to get smaller and smaller, causing these crossings to be less and less effective, evolution-wise, as people get to be more similar over time.

[assassin_696]

Maybe our developing cures for diseases and so on is our evolution. Maybe we're done evolving physiologically and we're just evolving mentally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good way of putting it.

[Evilperson]

 

Maybe our developing cures for diseases and so on is our evolution. Maybe we're done evolving physiologically and we're just evolving mentally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good way of putting it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think medical advances is considered evolution. Thats just prolonging our already frail body. If anything we are digressing instead of progressing. We have so many comforts in our lives and no physical challenges. Yes we are constantly improving our mental states, but are physically getting lazier. We are only slowing down our evolution, not all animals. They are constantly improving. trying to survive in the world filled by viruses (aka man kind)

[assassin_696]

 

 

Maybe our developing cures for diseases and so on is our evolution. Maybe we're done evolving physiologically and we're just evolving mentally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good way of putting it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think medical advances is considered evolution. Thats just prolonging our already frail body. If anything we are digressing instead of progressing. We have so many comforts in our lives and no physical challenges. Yes we are constantly improving our mental states, but are physically getting lazier. We are only slowing down our evolution, not all animals. They are constantly improving. trying to survive in the world filled by viruses (aka man kind)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speak for yourself, many humans are always pushing themselves harder physically, with or without science.

[The Real ET]

I was just discussing this the other day with some random woman in a gift shop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People who shouldn't live (according to Natural Selection) are living. I'm not saying we should just let Cancer, AIDS, etc. patients die, but with their living and making offspring it is putting us behind evolution-wise. Personally, I'd rather have then live than make our race more evolved.

[Mercifull]

There are a great many number of people trying to halt the spread of aids in countries like Africa. Unfortunately there are also large numbers of catholic's who try to stop people using contraception over there because its part of their religious belief.

[Guest XplsvBam]

Take down diseases, those viruses and bacteria that are immune just pop up (or reproduce more efficiently anyways), and we still have diseases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno much about evolution, but I know that it's still been occuring within the human race. Ex: humans have grown taller over the centuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really get what most of your post has to do with evolution though :| .

Being tall is a dominant trait, genetics. Evolution is mutations in our our cells that evolutionist can't back up because it happens so rarely. An ironic thing is that our bodies reject mutation, while evolutionist claim that evolution is beneficial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How are our cells suppose to realize when they have discovered a beneficial mutation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evolution is too far fetched.

[Rebdragon]

 

Take down diseases, those viruses and bacteria that are immune just pop up (or reproduce more efficiently anyways), and we still have diseases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno much about evolution, but I know that it's still been occuring within the human race. Ex: humans have grown taller over the centuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really get what most of your post has to do with evolution though :| .

Being tall is a dominant trait, genetics. Evolution is mutations in our our cells that evolutionist can't back up because it happens so rarely. An ironic thing is that our bodies reject mutation, while evolutionist claim that evolution is beneficial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How are our cells suppose to realize when they have discovered a beneficial mutation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evolution is too far fetched.

 

 

 

Wow, do you even know how evolution works? What natural selection even is?

[Lionheart_0]

 

Take down diseases, those viruses and bacteria that are immune just pop up (or reproduce more efficiently anyways), and we still have diseases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno much about evolution, but I know that it's still been occuring within the human race. Ex: humans have grown taller over the centuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really get what most of your post has to do with evolution though :| .

Being tall is a dominant trait, genetics. Evolution is mutations in our our cells that evolutionist can't back up because it happens so rarely. An ironic thing is that our bodies reject mutation, while evolutionist claim that evolution is beneficial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How are our cells suppose to realize when they have discovered a beneficial mutation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evolution is too far fetched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because a trait is dominant, doesn't mean it shows up all the time. Something like height you cant even compare though, because it is multi allialism (forget out how to spell it). Ones height is dependent on different sets of genes. Which genes are working, and which are not, is a random process that happens at birth. This, is evolution.

[Cloaked_Shadow]

Not sure if this has been said, but:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, we won't continue to evolve (my opinion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why? Evolution stems from having to adapt to new situations and environments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't adapt to the environment anymore. Rather, we adapt the environment to US.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, no: I doubt we will continue to evolve.

[Will H]

The human race is currently in an evolutionary shift, from natural to artificial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Try thinking about it in the opposite direction. Imagine it from the bacteria's point of view. The medicines we are creating are 'pathogens' to bacteria, so therefore strong bacteria can evolve to become immune to these 'pathogens' but those weak ones who do not become immune die off, for example, smallpox (Is now extinct since the 19 century, due to immunisation). Therefore we are changing roles and now it is bacteria which is undergoing natural selection. We are actually making their own mini natural selection system for themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, back to humans. Our medicines are causing the 'weak' people who should be dead according to natural selection are now living and reproducing, alongside the strong ones who don't get the disease in the first place. The whole problem with this is the possible issue of a pandemic. If a 'supervirus' (we shall call it SV) comes along that reproduces so fast that we cannot create a medicine against SV fast enough, the human population will be severely damaged, with possibly only a few left who happened to be naturally immune to SV. This means that the human race will then move in a huge cycle, and natural selection will probably resume. If the population is still in the natural selection process (Which is isn't, or at least not much) then we have a much higher chance of being immune to SV in the first place, due to us being more independant in our immunity against diseases. Thus therefore increasing the chance of the human race's survival. I shall plot a sketch graph, with population against time:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From this graph, we can tell that the human race thrives much better and faster, due to a higher population in less time. The issue is that we all know it is morally wrong to simply cull the weak ones ourselves when we could just help them instead, but then we move into artificial selection and potentially killing a large portion of the human population in the future (over time no matter how long it takes, it will happen), instead of a small portion.

 

 

 

In conclusion, we all know how harsh nature is, but should we be as harsh as well? I think we need to, for the sake of humanity.

[StrOwez]

think people are misunderstanding evolution and adaptation they are two different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A from cold country goes to a hot country his skin produces more melanin to stop his skin burning, the man is not evolving but adapting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This principle is also same in bacteria and viruses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason you don't see any evolution is because there is none, arguments for evolution are weak, and also people here get confused with Lamarck's theory and DarwinÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lamarck; theory was based on the idea of that the more an organ is used; the more it increases in size, from generation to generation. For example according to Lamarck's theory, the long legs and long neck of the giraffe are the results of generations of giraffes stretching to feed on the leaves of tall trees. The slightly longer legs and neck produced each generation were passed on to the next generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darwin; Suggested that new species can be formed by a process called natural selection, he got the idea from studying some finches on the Galapagos Islands, Darwin suggested that each of the different varieties was descended from one variety of finch. Some finches had slightly narrower beaks, good for eating insects. These got more food than others, lived longer and had more offspringÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To the person that said Religion and Evolution can both work a long side each other obviously knows nothing about religion

[Rebdragon]

think people are misunderstanding evolution and adaptation they are two different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A from cold country goes to a hot country his skin produces more melanin to stop his skin burning, the man is not evolving but adapting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lamarck; theory was based on the idea of that the more an organ is used; the more it increases in size, from generation to generation. For example according to Lamarck's theory, the long legs and long neck of the giraffe are the results of generations of giraffes stretching to feed on the leaves of tall trees. The slightly longer legs and neck produced each generation were passed on to the next generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darwin; Suggested that new species can be formed by a process called natural selection, he got the idea from studying some finches on the Galapagos Islands, Darwin suggested that each of the different varieties was descended from one variety of finch. Some finches had slightly narrower beaks, good for eating insects. These got more food than others, lived longer and had more offspringÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

Who in this discussion didn't know that information already? None that I could see. It just sounds like your spitting out information to make yourself look smarter.

 

 

 

To the person that said Religion and Evolution can both work a long side each other obviously knows nothing about religion

 

 

 

And I'd have to say the exact same thing to you. For the love of God, major religions aren't going around the world and screaming "SCIENCE IS EVIL!!!!" (anymore); they acknowledge the discoveries of science and generally see nothing wrong with it at all.

[eyehawk78]

Before you read my post please note I am an atheist. Im not spouting the same lines I heard in a sunday school or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone else ever considered that if God was all knowing etc. he/she planted all our scientific evidence deliberately for us to find. Knowing we would invent science to disprove his/her existence.

 

 

 

I.e. He/she designed all Newtons laws, created evolution etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just a thought I had a few days ago...

[warri0r45]

Before you read my post please note I am an atheist. Im not spouting the same lines I heard in a sunday school or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone else ever considered that if God was all knowing etc. he/she planted all our scientific evidence deliberately for us to find. Knowing we would invent science to disprove his/her existence.

 

 

 

I.e. He/she designed all Newtons laws, created evolution etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just a thought I had a few days ago...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, a 'prankster' god. :lol: Bill Hicks did a pretty funny routine on the issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

think people are misunderstanding evolution and adaptation they are two different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A from cold country goes to a hot country his skin produces more melanin to stop his skin burning, the man is not evolving but adapting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This principle is also same in bacteria and viruses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason you don't see any evolution is because there is none, arguments for evolution are weak, and also people here get confused with Lamarck's theory and DarwinÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lamarck; theory was based on the idea of that the more an organ is used; the more it increases in size, from generation to generation. For example according to Lamarck's theory, the long legs and long neck of the giraffe are the results of generations of giraffes stretching to feed on the leaves of tall trees. The slightly longer legs and neck produced each generation were passed on to the next generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darwin; Suggested that new species can be formed by a process called natural selection, he got the idea from studying some finches on the Galapagos Islands, Darwin suggested that each of the different varieties was descended from one variety of finch. Some finches had slightly narrower beaks, good for eating insects. These got more food than others, lived longer and had more offspringÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To the person that said Religion and Evolution can both work a long side each other obviously knows nothing about religion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh man, read a book, please. Don't just write misinformation to make yourself feel better. Religion and science can work alongside, mate, as I'm sure you'd agree god made us as inquiring and logical beings. As for saying evolution has no evidence and arguments for it are weak, I'm not even going to bother, read a book, seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take down diseases, those viruses and bacteria that are immune just pop up (or reproduce more efficiently anyways), and we still have diseases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno much about evolution, but I know that it's still been occuring within the human race. Ex: humans have grown taller over the centuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really get what most of your post has to do with evolution though :| .

Being tall is a dominant trait, genetics. Evolution is mutations in our our cells that evolutionist can't back up because it happens so rarely. An ironic thing is that our bodies reject mutation, while evolutionist claim that evolution is beneficial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How are our cells suppose to realize when they have discovered a beneficial mutation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evolution is too far fetched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mutations in our cells dont happen as rarely as you suggest, and yes, they can be beneficial due to the fact that they are random i.e. they don't pick and choose which is going to be beneficial and which is going to be damaging. And what do you mean how are your cells supposed to realise? It's in your genes, i.e. the mutations tell your cells that there is a mutation (although, of course, they don't realise it, they are cells, they just do what the mutation programmed them to do.) I'm hoping you knew that all of these mutations happen in the process of sex cell production, yes? In other words, due to the natural mechanism that offspring are given pairs of chromosomal information from mother and father to gain variety and thus a greater immunity to disease and the natural occurance of mutations (base pair mispairing) when replicating DNA, the offpring produced can have genes which tell them completely different things from thier parents, i.e. they have evolved. Genetics is your friend.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might try and explain the whole system of gene mutation and the subsequent evolution of species a bit later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I can guarantee you it wouldn't be so far fetched if you didn't think it would make you go to hell. God is bigger than that mate, you won't wind up in hell for accepting evidence and what nature tells us about this planet. We were all made as logical, enquiring beings. Try to supress that and your basically saying god made a mistake.

[Lionheart_0]

Ok, for who ever went and said adaptation is not equal to evolution, needs to go back to school, fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

giraffe's necks did not just grow over time, thats a stupid idea. Im suddenly gonna use my left arm all the time now, and ill will triple in size! What happened was that the food in Africa that the giraffe's ate started getting higher and higher. To counter this, natural selection took place, and the giraffe's with longer necks survived, and bread together, ergo making a new species.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just started watching that movie i suggested to every one. I watched the first part last night, which was all on Darwin's theory. ill watch the 3 parts over the course of the week, and will be able to answer many questions later.

[StrOwez]

 

think people are misunderstanding evolution and adaptation they are two different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A from cold country goes to a hot country his skin produces more melanin to stop his skin burning, the man is not evolving but adapting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lamarck; theory was based on the idea of that the more an organ is used; the more it increases in size, from generation to generation. For example according to Lamarck's theory, the long legs and long neck of the giraffe are the results of generations of giraffes stretching to feed on the leaves of tall trees. The slightly longer legs and neck produced each generation were passed on to the next generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darwin; Suggested that new species can be formed by a process called natural selection, he got the idea from studying some finches on the Galapagos Islands, Darwin suggested that each of the different varieties was descended from one variety of finch. Some finches had slightly narrower beaks, good for eating insects. These got more food than others, lived longer and had more offspringÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

Who in this discussion didn't know that information already? None that I could see. It just sounds like your spitting out information to make yourself look smarter.

 

 

 

To the person that said Religion and Evolution can both work a long side each other obviously knows nothing about religion

 

 

 

And I'd have to say the exact same thing to you. For the love of God, major religions aren't going around the world and screaming "SCIENCE IS EVIL!!!!" (anymore); they acknowledge the discoveries of science and generally see nothing wrong with it at all.

I'm not saying all science is wrong, BUT i am saying that EVOLUTION&RELIGION well at least the religion that says God made everything , made the humans etc. However one can say that Science is a religion in itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lionheart_0 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, for who ever went and said adaptation is not equal to evolution, needs to go back to school, fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear.. :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

think people are misunderstanding evolution and adaptation they are two different things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Person A from cold country goes to a hot country his skin produces more melanin to stop his skin burning, the man is not evolving but adapting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This principle is also same in bacteria and viruses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason you don't see any evolution is because there is none, arguments for evolution are weak, and also people here get confused with Lamarck's theory and DarwinÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lamarck; theory was based on the idea of that the more an organ is used; the more it increases in size, from generation to generation. For example according to Lamarck's theory, the long legs and long neck of the giraffe are the results of generations of giraffes stretching to feed on the leaves of tall trees. The slightly longer legs and neck produced each generation were passed on to the next generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Darwin; Suggested that new species can be formed by a process called natural selection, he got the idea from studying some finches on the Galapagos Islands, Darwin suggested that each of the different varieties was descended from one variety of finch. Some finches had slightly narrower beaks, good for eating insects. These got more food than others, lived longer and had more offspringÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To the person that said Religion and Evolution can both work a long side each other obviously knows nothing about religion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh man, read a book, please. Don't just write misinformation to make yourself feel better. Religion and science can work alongside, mate, as I'm sure you'd agree god made us as inquiring and logical beings. As for saying evolution has no evidence and arguments for it are weak, I'm not even going to bother, read a book, seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am in no way saying that science is wrong nor that science and religion cannot work a long side > The Evolutionary aspect of Science and Creationism can not work a long side each other because they are totally different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeh, i've read books , watched films, A'sed exams on evolution but IMHO it make no sence to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was nothing BANG!

[Lionheart_0]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am in no way saying that science is wrong nor that science and religion cannot work a long side > The Evolutionary aspect of Science and Creationism can not work a long side each other because they are totally different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeh, i've read books , watched films, A'sed exams on evolution but IMHO it make no sence to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was nothing BANG!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dunno what you are talking about here. The theory as to how the universe started has no relationship with evolution. I think this is how people keep saying evolution and creationism dont work. What if there was a god that created the first life forms, and then what we have today was evolved from that? That would be the two working side by side.

[Tigra00]

If you believe in God, you also believe "There was nothing, then BANG!" too, so if you don't believe in Evolution, please stop using that as an example, you'll just look stupid.