Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[Zierro]

(Note to Zierro - I'm not actually necessarily including you in those sets, you haven't indicated your responce to the situations you described)

 

 

 

Actually I did let the dude touch my hair and I was buddies with the other guy. It still made me feel uncomfortable though.

[Shinjula]

That's probably not so bad, it really depends on why you felt uncomfortable. I've had experiences like that, where girls have touched me like that and I've felt uncomfortable but I'm sensitive enough to connect it to the fact that they were feeling some inapropriate stuff and projecting it, like, that I should be theirs, lack of acknowledgement of the fact that I'm not interested, possesiveness and/or thinking they might 'cure' me.

 

 

 

Now none of that is heterophobic (opposite of homophobic) and I suspect yours isnt homophobic either, but people do have a tendancy to not be sensitive enough to work out the true cause of these feelings and lump it all under one banner of gays make me feel icky, and it can develop into homophobia, when really its just one gay guy a little too under the control of his hormones.

 

 

 

Last thing to say on it, is that in case anyone is thinking of judging gays badly on this, you really should take a look at how heterosexual men treat women, the number of times I've seen men staring a womens breasts is really quite astonishing, I mean, even while they are talking to them. And women put up with this on an day to day basis. Which is why I have a lot of strong feministic sympathies.

[Nadril]

That kind of homophobia is also the most vain form of self-flattery imaginable.

 

 

 

Yeah I love the "I'm fine with it as long as they don't come on to me!" line. Classic.

[Howlin0001]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

[soulglowactivatur]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

 

I don't know too much about homosexuality, but isn't it debated whether homosexuality is choice or genetics?

 

I'm a christian and I've been taught that homosexuality is considered evil. But if people are born that way, isn't that a little bit unfair?

[Howlin0001]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

 

I don't know too much about homosexuality, but isn't it debated whether homosexuality is choice or genetics?

 

I'm a christian and I've been taught that homosexuality is considered evil. But if people are born that way, isn't that a little bit unfair?

 

Well yea some say it is a choice others say it isn't. I think some people do chose it and some people don't, kinda like what nationality you are. You can be say born Irish or you can become an Irish citizen.

 

 

 

EDIT: At least that's how I see it.

[Shinjula]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

 

I don't know too much about homosexuality, but isn't it debated whether homosexuality is choice or genetics?

 

I'm a christian and I've been taught that homosexuality is considered evil. But if people are born that way, isn't that a little bit unfair?

 

The only people who ever debate that it is a choice are those with a vested interest in it being so, i.e. those who believe homosexuality is wrong and use that to justify descrimination.

 

 

 

Psychologists are pretty much across the board convinced its not a choice. Whether its something that happens during foetal development, whether its genetics or due to factors whilst growing up is still unknown. But there are very few psychologists who have gone on record as saying it's a choice. And most of those equally have vested interests in that being the case.

[Howlin0001]

Care to elaborate on that? On how it's wrong?

[raven_gaurd0]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

 

I don't know too much about homosexuality, but isn't it debated whether homosexuality is choice or genetics?

 

I'm a christian and I've been taught that homosexuality is considered evil. But if people are born that way, isn't that a little bit unfair?

 

The only people who ever debate that it is a choice are those with a vested interest in it being so, i.e. those who believe homosexuality is wrong and use that to justify descrimination.

 

 

 

Psychologists are pretty much across the board convinced its not a choice. Whether its something that happens during foetal development, whether its genetics or due to factors whilst growing up is still unknown. But there are very few psychologists who have gone on record as saying it's a choice. And most of those equally have vested interests in that being the case.

 

 

 

FREUD!

 

 

 

Homosexuality is, at any rate, something that can be ignored.

 

 

 

Sociopaths are born with a disposition to ignore society's laws, so is it then just that we 'discriminate' against them by locking them up?

 

 

 

Homosexuals made a choice to follow their primal hungering, and I frown upon that. While I certainly do not think any punishment should be bestowed upon them upon this earth, I would hope that they understand that implications of their actions.

[Wisp]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

 

I don't know too much about homosexuality, but isn't it debated whether homosexuality is choice or genetics?

 

I'm a christian and I've been taught that homosexuality is considered evil. But if people are born that way, isn't that a little bit unfair?

 

The only people who ever debate that it is a choice are those with a vested interest in it being so, i.e. those who believe homosexuality is wrong and use that to justify descrimination.

 

 

 

Psychologists are pretty much across the board convinced its not a choice. Whether its something that happens during foetal development, whether its genetics or due to factors whilst growing up is still unknown. But there are very few psychologists who have gone on record as saying it's a choice. And most of those equally have vested interests in that being the case.

 

 

 

FREUD!

 

 

 

Homosexuality is, at any rate, something that can be ignored.

 

 

 

Sociopaths are born with a disposition to ignore society's laws, so is it then just that we 'discriminate' against them by locking them up?

 

 

 

Homosexuals made a choice to follow their primal hungering, and I frown upon that. While I certainly do not think any punishment should be bestowed upon them upon this earth, I would hope that they understand that implications of their actions.

 

Sociopaths aren't punished for being sociopaths. They are punished for breaking laws.

[tryto]

I was thinking wouldn't be saying homosexuality is wrong is like to say it's wrong to be Irish or English or Welsh?

 

I don't know too much about homosexuality, but isn't it debated whether homosexuality is choice or genetics?

 

I'm a christian and I've been taught that homosexuality is considered evil. But if people are born that way, isn't that a little bit unfair?

 

The only people who ever debate that it is a choice are those with a vested interest in it being so, i.e. those who believe homosexuality is wrong and use that to justify descrimination.

 

 

 

Psychologists are pretty much across the board convinced its not a choice. Whether its something that happens during foetal development, whether its genetics or due to factors whilst growing up is still unknown. But there are very few psychologists who have gone on record as saying it's a choice. And most of those equally have vested interests in that being the case.

 

 

 

FREUD!

 

 

 

Homosexuality is, at any rate, something that can be ignored.

 

 

 

Sociopaths are born with a disposition to ignore society's laws, so is it then just that we 'discriminate' against them by locking them up?

 

 

 

Homosexuals made a choice to follow their primal hungering, and I frown upon that. While I certainly do not think any punishment should be bestowed upon them upon this earth, I would hope that they understand that implications of their actions.

 

Sociopaths aren't punished for being sociopaths. They are punished for breaking laws.

 

 

 

 

 

As well, 4% of Americans are sociopaths. If we put every sociopath in jail, we'd have some pretty full prisons.

 

Homosexuality does not injure the homosexual, their partner homosexual, or anyone else.

 

Therefore, there is no reason why it should be illegal or wrong.

[Madmanpur3]

Homosexuality is not wrong, and anyone who truly believes otherwise is either very ignorant or very stupid. Saying homosexuality is wrong is borderline equivalent to me saying "Being shy is wrong".

 

 

 

Also, it's not certain that homosexuality is genetic...there are many variables that could lead to one being homosexual.

[pryomancer]

Also, it's not certain that homosexuality is genetic...there are many variables that could lead to one being homosexual.

 

 

 

I saw a programme that suggested that boys who have older brothers are more likely to be gay, something to do with less testosterone being available in the womb or something. It's not genetics but still something outside of choice to be homosexual.

 

 

 

Personally, I've always been taught and believed that homosexuality isn't a choice at all.

 

What really gets me are parents who run a strictly devout Christian house, scaring the life out of their kids that if they are gay they'll be shunned and sent to hell. If a child so happens to be gay, imagine the torment in their head, the feelings they can't help no matter how hard they try versus their parents who they love telling them these awful things about the consequences of these feelings.

 

Parents who disown their children or who torment and abuse them for being gay is just beyond me. How anyone could ever do that to a child, their own child, I just see nothing but inhumane barbarity, they shouldn't be parents as far as I'm concerned.

[mmmcannibalism]

I saw a programme that suggested that boys who have older brothers are more likely to be gay, something to do with less testosterone being available in the womb or something. It's not genetics but still something outside of choice to be homosexual.

 

 

 

hmm thats interesting, could it have any thing to do with other patterns among siblings, as in first borns more likely to be athletic?

 

 

 

to raven, being a christian fundamentalist hath clouded though vision of the real world.

[Madmanpur3]

Also, it's not certain that homosexuality is genetic...there are many variables that could lead to one being homosexual.

 

 

 

I saw a programme that suggested that boys who have older brothers are more likely to be gay, something to do with less testosterone being available in the womb or something. It's not genetics but still something outside of choice to be homosexual.

 

 

 

Personally, I've always been taught and believed that homosexuality isn't a choice at all.

 

What really gets me are parents who run a strictly devout Christian house, scaring the life out of their kids that if they are gay they'll be shunned and sent to hell. If a child so happens to be gay, imagine the torment in their head, the feelings they can't help no matter how hard they try versus their parents who they love telling them these awful things about the consequences of these feelings.

 

Parents who disown their children or who torment and abuse them for being gay is just beyond me. How anyone could ever do that to a child, their own child, I just see nothing but inhumane barbarity, they shouldn't be parents as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'd be willing to bet tho that the odds of parents like that having kids that turn out to be homosexual is very slim, since parents play a huge role in the development of a child. But yeah, I had a teacher a few years ago who said she'd either send her kids away or lock them in a closet (not sure if pun was intended) if they were homosexual...the worse part was she said that to a student who was gay (she didn't know he was). Catholic schools for ya.

[assassin_696]

Homosexuality is, at any rate, something that can be ignored.

 

 

 

What could you possibly mean by that?

[suncrafter]

Right. It harms no one.

[ThurinEthir]

 

I'd be willing to bet tho that the odds of parents like that having kids that turn out to be homosexual is very slim, since parents play a huge role in the development of a child. But yeah, I had a teacher a few years ago who said she'd either send her kids away or lock them in a closet (not sure if pun was intended) if they were homosexual...the worse part was she said that to a student who was gay (she didn't know he was). Catholic schools for ya.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that. We had to watch a video about sexual orientation in sex ed, and they interviewed a bunch of parents who had homosexual kids, and all the parents said was that when they found out, they wished it wasn't so. That obviously doesn't mean that they're fundamental Christians or anything like that, but it gives the impression that they'd rather not have a homosexual child, most likely have taught their child some negative things about homosexuality, yet their child ends up gay.

 

Though I agree that a good deal of it is influence, if not genetic. (Which it could be, who knows) However, religion is also heavily influence, yet many kids with religious parents end up atheist.

[obfuscator]

 

I'd be willing to bet tho that the odds of parents like that having kids that turn out to be homosexual is very slim, since parents play a huge role in the development of a child. But yeah, I had a teacher a few years ago who said she'd either send her kids away or lock them in a closet (not sure if pun was intended) if they were homosexual...the worse part was she said that to a student who was gay (she didn't know he was). Catholic schools for ya.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that. We had to watch a video about sexual orientation in sex ed, and they interviewed a bunch of parents who had homosexual kids, and all the parents said was that when they found out, they wished it wasn't so. That obviously doesn't mean that they're fundamental Christians or anything like that, but it gives the impression that they'd rather not have a homosexual child, most likely have taught their child some negative things about homosexuality, yet their child ends up gay.

 

Though I agree that a good deal of it is influence, if not genetic. (Which it could be, who knows) However, religion is also heavily influence, yet many kids with religious parents end up atheist.

 

 

 

My parents are very conservative catholics, but they have been very clear to me, when teaching me their beliefs about homosexuality. They have said that they would be saddened and disappointed if I was gay(which I am not) but that they would not turn me away. They love me unconditionally, which is what the catholic church teaches at any rate.

[ThurinEthir]

 

My parents are very conservative catholics, but they have been very clear to me, when teaching me their beliefs about homosexuality. They have said that they would be saddened and disappointed if I was gay(which I am not) but that they would not turn me away. They love me unconditionally, which is what the catholic church teaches at any rate.

 

I agree that love and acceptance really should take priority over whatever wrongs one may have done. (Though I definitely don't believe homosexuality is wrong) Jesus was pretty accepting of sinners, so I really don't see why any Christian should have a problem accepting homosexuals if they believe it to be a sin.

 

I wonder how my parents would react if I told them I was gay. Hm.

[llcoolguy972]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. We had to watch a video about sexual orientation in sex ed, and they interviewed a bunch of parents who had homosexual kids, and all the parents said was that when they found out, they wished it wasn't so. That obviously doesn't mean that they're fundamental Christians or anything like that, but it gives the impression that they'd rather not have a homosexual child, most likely have taught their child some negative things about homosexuality, yet their child ends up gay.

 

Though I agree that a good deal of it is influence, if not genetic. (Which it could be, who knows) However, religion is also heavily influence, yet many kids with religious parents end up atheist.

 

That part confused me. Did they say why? Because they might have been completely fine with having a gay child, just worried about everything their child might have to go through. Obviously they were accepting or they wouldn't have been in a video. Perhaps the displeasure was at society and not their child.

[obfuscator]

 

My parents are very conservative catholics, but they have been very clear to me, when teaching me their beliefs about homosexuality. They have said that they would be saddened and disappointed if I was gay(which I am not) but that they would not turn me away. They love me unconditionally, which is what the catholic church teaches at any rate.

 

I agree that love and acceptance really should take priority over whatever wrongs one may have done. (Though I definitely don't believe homosexuality is wrong) Jesus was pretty accepting of sinners, so I really don't see why any Christian should have a problem accepting homosexuals if they believe it to be a sin.

 

I wonder how my parents would react if I told them I was gay. Hm.

 

As I have already explained, Christians don't have a problem accepting homosexuals, just their actions. Just as murderers(being significantly worse then homosexuals) are accepted and embraced, but their actions are shunned.

[ThurinEthir]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. We had to watch a video about sexual orientation in sex ed, and they interviewed a bunch of parents who had homosexual kids, and all the parents said was that when they found out, they wished it wasn't so. That obviously doesn't mean that they're fundamental Christians or anything like that, but it gives the impression that they'd rather not have a homosexual child, most likely have taught their child some negative things about homosexuality, yet their child ends up gay.

 

Though I agree that a good deal of it is influence, if not genetic. (Which it could be, who knows) However, religion is also heavily influence, yet many kids with religious parents end up atheist.

 

That part confused me. Did they say why? Because they might have been completely fine with having a gay child, just worried about everything their child might have to go through. Obviously they were accepting or they wouldn't have been in a video. Perhaps the displeasure was at society and not their child.

 

I admit I didn't really pay attention, but from what I gather, there was some sort of "flashback" of the kid telling his mom and the mom breaking down into tears and yelling "NOOOOOO".

 

I'd assume that even if that was the case, they eventually became accepting. Even the most fundamental people would probably accept their child for who they are after a few years.

 

And murderers aren't accepted and embraced. Usually. :?

[Madmanpur3]

 

I'd be willing to bet tho that the odds of parents like that having kids that turn out to be homosexual is very slim, since parents play a huge role in the development of a child. But yeah, I had a teacher a few years ago who said she'd either send her kids away or lock them in a closet (not sure if pun was intended) if they were homosexual...the worse part was she said that to a student who was gay (she didn't know he was). Catholic schools for ya.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that. We had to watch a video about sexual orientation in sex ed, and they interviewed a bunch of parents who had homosexual kids, and all the parents said was that when they found out, they wished it wasn't so. That obviously doesn't mean that they're fundamental Christians or anything like that, but it gives the impression that they'd rather not have a homosexual child, most likely have taught their child some negative things about homosexuality, yet their child ends up gay.

 

Though I agree that a good deal of it is influence, if not genetic. (Which it could be, who knows) However, religion is also heavily influence, yet many kids with religious parents end up atheist.

 

I know, I know...like I said there are a great amount of variables involved. For instance, a kid's parents could preach to him that homosexuality is bad his entire childhood, but if at the same time he is conditioned in a manner to feel the need to rebel against his parents, that would be one way he could do it. But typically, under 'normal' conditions, kids will take after their parents in a majority of their beliefs, ideals, mannerisms, etc.

 

 

 

The same can be said about kids and atheism. A kid who's raised by religious parents isn't atheist because they're a true atheist, it's because they're either lazy, rebellious, or both.

[Serpent Eye]

Homosexuality is, at any rate, something that can be ignored.

 

 

 

I know someone has already previously quoted this bit from you, but I too am somewhat confused as to what you're implying by this. What significance does it have with the overall argument?

 

 

 

After all, on the opposite side of the coin, heterosexuality is something that can be ignored. If you're a male who is naturally attracted to women, you can ignore this "primal hungering" of yours and choose to be with another man.

 

 

 

I just don't see what relevancy it has. (I know you quoted several people in the post this quote comes from, so perhaps it's just the continuation of a conversation that I missed...)

 

 

 

Homosexuals made a choice to follow their primal hungering, and I frown upon that. While I certainly do not think any punishment should be bestowed upon them upon this earth, I would hope that they understand that implications of their actions.

 

 

 

I strongly, strongly disagree with you here. Why would you frown upon the fact that someone is living their life? By your same logic, straight people make the choice to follow the "primal hungering" to be with people of the opposite sex - should this be frowned upon as well?

 

 

 

What "implications" are you talking about? Homosexuals going to some sort of hell?

 

 

 

Edit: I disagree with you on the last quote, because from how I read it, you're sounding very self-righteous and condecending. To me, it's coming off that you're saying, "For your sake, you'd better realize that your choice to be gay will have some serious consequences..."

 

 

 

I'm not going to hide who I am, or pretend to be something I'm not, just so I won't go to some fictional hell that I don't even believe in.