Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[Racheya]

Where'd all the posts go? :-|

What posts? There were no posts here! Nope... none at all... :unsure:

 

On a completely unrelated note, just a reminder to keep all debates friendly. While we encourage open discussion, that doesn't mean we allow pointless harassment of users or groups of people.

[Necromagus]

I strongly suggest that everyone involved in this stops posting while the moderators look through the evidence.

 

~edit: Feel free to continue the debate in a neat and orderly fashion.

[Zierro]

Most girls who have tried anal intercourse will gladly tell you how much it hurts, so surely that anal intercourse is common place for gay men shows we can take pain and therefore (by the archaic concepts homophobes use of a "man") we are probably more manly than them as they'd never take the pain.

 

Are girls who tried anal more manly than straight guys then?

 

I don't think willingness to take pain has anything to do with manliness. Now, I guess you could say that a cowardly soldier who is too afraid to do anything during a battle isn't very manly. But as for having painful gay sex, the reason a man would opt out of having it isn't because he's afraid of taking pain - it's because he's straight.

[metoo1000]

regardless of religious or scientific reasoning. a vagina and a penis are suppose to go together, that is how humans are made, so being lesbian or gay is totally anti efficient and goes against society; in the fact that if everyone was homosexual the world would end due to no more reproduction.

 

therefore 100% of homosexuals are all sexually confused and have no idea why every species in the world has a male and female form.

[aspeeder]

regardless of religious or scientific reasoning. a vagina and a penis are suppose to go together, that is how humans are made, so being lesbian or gay is totally anti efficient and goes against society; Goes against natural methods of reproduction yes, but society is a human institution that in theory has no connection to nature, so this argument has no bearing.

in the fact that if everyone was homosexual the world would end due to no more reproduction.

However only 10% of people born are (Theoretically) gay or lesbian, therefore this hypothetical scenario is a pointless discussion.

therefore 100% of homosexuals are all sexually confused and have no idea why every species in the world has a male and female form. I would agree with this, but everyone becomes sexually confused at some point or another.

Also

Eg the whole you take penis therefore you are girly argument.

That dates back to romans and the idea the the "receiver" is submissive, that's not always the case however ;-) .

[Sy_Accursed]

Most girls who have tried anal intercourse will gladly tell you how much it hurts, so surely that anal intercourse is common place for gay men shows we can take pain and therefore (by the archaic concepts homophobes use of a "man") we are probably more manly than them as they'd never take the pain.

 

Are girls who tried anal more manly than straight guys then?

 

I don't think willingness to take pain has anything to do with manliness. Now, I guess you could say that a cowardly soldier who is too afraid to do anything during a battle isn't very manly. But as for having painful gay sex, the reason a man would opt out of having it isn't because he's afraid of taking pain - it's because he's straight.

 

People miss my point here.

 

The point is people who use the argument rely on the outdated and moronic idea of what is a "man", which virtually no-one straight or gay actually fits. And part of this is taking pain. So under that context, the argument of having anal sex (and therefore enduring pain) cannot show girlyness as the taking of pain in that context of "man" is means it is manly.

 

I'm not literally arguing that there is anything manly or girly about it, I'm simply arguing the point that the concept of what a "man" is that the people who use such insults use when you look at it literally would suggest anal sex to be manly due to the pain factor; which therefore makes their argument quite flawed and amusing.

 

regardless of religious or scientific reasoning. a vagina and a penis are suppose to go together, that is how humans are made, so being lesbian or gay is totally anti efficient and goes against society; in the fact that if everyone was homosexual the world would end due to no more reproduction.

 

therefore 100% of homosexuals are all sexually confused and have no idea why every species in the world has a male and female form.

 

That's just utter rubbish. As previously stated in the thread homosexuality has proven occurence in EVERY single species out there. Even in human society go back to greeks and romans and it was a celebrated thing everyone took part in. If you look at things in a reproductive sense yes a penis and vagina go together; but not everything is about reproduction, especially in human society where it is about love and intimacy.

 

Also the idea it is "anti-efficient" is flawed. First and foremost homosexual couples are a big factor in adoption, if it wasn't for homosexual couples adopting or fostering children they'd be a hell of a lot more unloved children in orphanages worldwide. Equally the world is arguably over populated and needs birth rates to drop, arguable homosexuals achieve this as we aren't reporducing. So in the context of the world right now homosexual is very efficient at slowing over population and giving homes to the children that are already here.

 

Also I am not sexually confused and I know perfectly well why species have male and female and that is just a narrow-minded and naive view. It's just a fact of life part of who you are, I am just attracted to other men - theres no logic or reason to it and it cannot be explained WHY I am anymore than a straight man can explain WHY he's attracted to girls. There's nothing confused about it as I know what I like and that's what I go for.

[Serpent Eye]

Paw, you summed up my thoughts exactly.

 

I've been debating how to reply to metoo's post since it was posted, but wasn't sure how exactly to word my thoughts (without raging, anyway.)

 

It's pretty silly to say that since a man and a woman CAN be together, they HAVE to be together.

[Zierro]

The point is people who use the argument rely on the outdated and moronic idea of what is a "man", which virtually no-one straight or gay actually fits. And part of this is taking pain. So under that context, the argument of having anal sex (and therefore enduring pain) cannot show girlyness as the taking of pain in that context of "man" is means it is manly.

 

I'm not literally arguing that there is anything manly or girly about it, I'm simply arguing the point that the concept of what a "man" is that the people who use such insults use when you look at it literally would suggest anal sex to be manly due to the pain factor; which therefore makes their argument quite flawed and amusing.

 

Who says that taking pain is purely a masculine attribute? It can be considered manly in the right context, such as rescuing a fellow soldier at the risk of getting shot. However, there are some actions that can be very painful but they still shouldn't be considered "manly". Suicide should be a good example. Yeah, you might be enduring the pain of having blood leak out of your wrists, but then again it's not very manly to give up on life. Giving birth is painful, but far from "manly". Anal sex is sort of in the same boat if you ask me. It might hurt, but it also means to get dominated - which is quite the opposite of "manly". When a gay man receives anal sex, he is taking the female's traditional role of being submissive. I guess you could argue that the person giving is more manly than the person receiving though.

[Sy_Accursed]

The point is people who use the argument rely on the outdated and moronic idea of what is a "man", which virtually no-one straight or gay actually fits. And part of this is taking pain. So under that context, the argument of having anal sex (and therefore enduring pain) cannot show girlyness as the taking of pain in that context of "man" is means it is manly.

 

I'm not literally arguing that there is anything manly or girly about it, I'm simply arguing the point that the concept of what a "man" is that the people who use such insults use when you look at it literally would suggest anal sex to be manly due to the pain factor; which therefore makes their argument quite flawed and amusing.

 

Who says that taking pain is purely a masculine attribute? It can be considered manly in the right context, such as rescuing a fellow soldier at the risk of getting shot. However, there are some actions that can be very painful but they still shouldn't be considered "manly". Suicide should be a good example. Yeah, you might be enduring the pain of having blood leak out of your wrists, but then again it's not very manly to give up on life. Giving birth is painful, but far from "manly". Anal sex is sort of in the same boat if you ask me. It might hurt, but it also means to get dominated - which is quite the opposite of "manly". When a gay man receives anal sex, he is taking the female's traditional role of being submissive. I guess you could argue that the person giving is more manly than the person receiving though.

 

Again you're missing the point.

 

The people who use that reasoning generally use the moronic and outdated idea of what a "man" is; whihc is why from them it is flawed.

 

I am in no way arguing it is literally a manly thing to do (thought I don't think its girly to do either).

 

I am simply saying if you are gonna use the idea of a "man" that they use taking pain = man. Which is what flaws their argument of receiving anal sex is girly

[Zierro]

How am I missing your point?

 

The point is people who use the argument rely on the outdated and moronic idea of what is a "man", which virtually no-one straight or gay actually fits. And part of this is taking pain. So under that context, the argument of having anal sex (and therefore enduring pain) cannot show girlyness as the taking of pain in that context of "man" is means it is manly.

 

Your point: People who think gay sex is not manly also think that taking pain is manly, which means they actually think gay sex is manly.

 

My dispute: I don't understand where you're getting this "Pain always equals manliness" thing from. No one is saying that. Yes, part of it might be taking pain - being courageous and whatnot is considered manly, but there are situations of taking pain that are not manly at all, such as giving birth.

 

The definition of manly is simply this: Having qualities traditionally attributed to a man.

 

Dominance is traditionally attributed to men. Enduring pain in the context of being brave and heroic (not being dominated - that is attributed to women) is traditionally attributed to men.

 

Most girls who have tried anal intercourse will gladly tell you how much it hurts, so surely that anal intercourse is common place for gay men shows we can take pain and therefore (by the archaic concepts homophobes use of a "man") we are probably more manly than them as they'd never take the pain.

 

What you are essentially saying here is that homophobes think giving birth is manly because it involves taking pain.

[Sy_Accursed]

Ergh you're still not getting it.

 

The archaic stereotype of what makes a "man" is what people who use stupid insults (eg gay arent men because they take [rooster]).

The archaic stereotype includes the attribute that taking pain is manly.

Therefore their argument is flawed.

 

Simple

 

You're dispute is irrelevant because you are using the less archaic concept of what makes a "man", which does have more depths to it and doesn't deem someone not a man based on any sexual act they may or may not participate in.

 

The flaw in the logic ONLY exists when using the archaic out-dated moronic concept of "man". The kind of concept most homophobes ad-hear too. The concept being the one including things like fighting makes a man, manual labour makes a man, women are objects for sex etc.

[Zierro]

The archaic stereotype includes the attribute that taking pain is manly.

 

Where do you get this from? Nobody says that taking pain, no matter what the context, is always manly.

[Sy_Accursed]

The archaic stereotype includes the attribute that taking pain is manly.

 

Where do you get this from? Nobody says that taking pain, no matter what the context, is always manly.

 

It's a standard feature of the archaic stereotype of what makes a "man"

I'm not saying its true, or that its what most think.

 

It's the archaic eg out-dated, illogical, ill-thought out stereotype; eg the stereotype still held up exclusively by the dim witted or uneducated. The ones who don't understand what a context is.

[Zierro]

It's a standard feature of the archaic stereotype of what makes a "man"

I'm not saying its true, or that its what most think.

 

It's the archaic eg out-dated, illogical, ill-thought out stereotype; eg the stereotype still held up exclusively by the dim witted or uneducated. The ones who don't understand what a context is.

 

Have you really met people who said, "Every form of taking pain is manly," or are you just inferring this based off their stereotypes that soldiers, firemen, boxers, etc. are all manly because they're not afraid of taking pain?

[Sy_Accursed]

It's a standard feature of the archaic stereotype of what makes a "man"

I'm not saying its true, or that its what most think.

 

It's the archaic eg out-dated, illogical, ill-thought out stereotype; eg the stereotype still held up exclusively by the dim witted or uneducated. The ones who don't understand what a context is.

 

Have you really met people who said, "Every form of taking pain is manly," or are you just inferring this based off their stereotypes that soldiers, firemen, boxers, etc. are all manly because they're not afraid of taking pain?

 

Yes I have.

 

And its always been in the moronic homophobes who've spouted such bs

[Zierro]

Okay, so let me get this straight. You've heard this from several homophobic people?

 

"Having anal sex is not manly."

"Taking pain is always manly, no matter what the context."

 

I will say that homophobes can be pretty irrational people, but come on. Homophobes believing that women who have anal sex and give birth are "manly"? I mean, why would they even specify that they meant every single painful context? And if they did, how would they not catch on to the obvious contradiction? Sorry, but it just doesn't add up. I guess it is possible that homophobes have admitted those exact words in black in white to you, but it could also be that there is conflict of interest here, and that you want to put words in their mouth to make them look even more stupid, or that you just simply misinterpreted what they said.

[Sy_Accursed]

Because they are stupid and ad hear the the archaic and outdated stereotypes that are severely flawed.

[Kevin_]

I don't really care at all if people are homosexual or not. My 2 bosses at the restaurant where i work are gay, they're really nice people.

[Sly_Wizard]

I think if you're going to call someone "stupid", you should at the very least have the decency to use correct spelling and grammar.

[wingwinder]

Did you guys think about the fact that religion, often times does not make sense, and could be not real?

 

Jesus was killed and came back to life, I mean come on. As well talking snakes in the garden of Eden (i think that's it)?

 

 

Now I'm not saying there isn't a god but the things we tack on to god like Jesus, are not very believable.

 

Personally, I think, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, it is a choice and not bad in any way.

 

People may argue that it is "sick", but it really isn't, it just seems like that to you because you are not homosexual.

 

Sometimes people can be immature, so just to say i am not homosexual.

[Alg]

Did you guys think about the fact that religion, often times does not make sense, and could be not real?

 

Jesus was killed and came back to life, I mean come on. As well talking snakes in the garden of Eden (i think that's it)?

 

Now I'm not saying there isn't a god but the things we tack on to god like Jesus, are not very believable.

Hooray for symbolism, then?

If you take the thing too literally you're just asking to be disappointed. That applies to everyone.

[aspeeder]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=04AVRslVRbY

Best documentary I've ever seen on the subject, and the thing that it does best is show the true message of Christianity: the unrequited love of all people.

[Saru Inc]

I personally find some derogatory comments abut gays, usual from straight men, to be quite funny.

 

Eg the whole you take penis therefore you are girly argument.

 

Most girls who have tried anal intercourse will gladly tell you how much it hurts, so surely that anal intercourse is common place for gay men shows we can take pain and therefore (by the archaic concepts homophobes use of a "man") we are probably more manly than them as they'd never take the pain.

 

 

Or there is of course the whole "How do you know you are gay if you've never slept with a woman?"; which is easily counted with "How do you know you are straight if you've never slept with a man?"

 

 

 

That one is always funny. I mean in a sense, if I was straight I'd ask the same thing. But it is pretty stupid when you think of it.

 

One argument I hate, is that it's "perverted." in what way? I mean, Iguess cause its not natural. But not natural and perverted are very different.

 

 

 

ps. oh yea, i'm gay.

[warri0r45]

I personally find some derogatory comments abut gays, usual from straight men, to be quite funny.

 

Eg the whole you take penis therefore you are girly argument.

 

Most girls who have tried anal intercourse will gladly tell you how much it hurts, so surely that anal intercourse is common place for gay men shows we can take pain and therefore (by the archaic concepts homophobes use of a "man") we are probably more manly than them as they'd never take the pain.

 

 

Or there is of course the whole "How do you know you are gay if you've never slept with a woman?"; which is easily counted with "How do you know you are straight if you've never slept with a man?"

 

 

 

That one is always funny. I mean in a sense, if I was straight I'd ask the same thing. But it is pretty stupid when you think of it.

 

One argument I hate, is that it's "perverted." in what way? I mean, Iguess cause its not natural. But not natural and perverted are very different.

 

 

 

ps. oh yea, i'm gay.

You're a Christian, right?

 

How do you reconcile Christian beliefs on homosexuality with being gay? Also, assuming you live in a Christian community with Christians in your family (I think you've said this before, but I could be wrong), how do you deal with it then? Are you open about it?

 

I'm genuinely curious.

[Saru Inc]

I personally find some derogatory comments abut gays, usual from straight men, to be quite funny.

 

Eg the whole you take penis therefore you are girly argument.

 

Most girls who have tried anal intercourse will gladly tell you how much it hurts, so surely that anal intercourse is common place for gay men shows we can take pain and therefore (by the archaic concepts homophobes use of a "man") we are probably more manly than them as they'd never take the pain.

 

 

Or there is of course the whole "How do you know you are gay if you've never slept with a woman?"; which is easily counted with "How do you know you are straight if you've never slept with a man?"

 

 

 

That one is always funny. I mean in a sense, if I was straight I'd ask the same thing. But it is pretty stupid when you think of it.

 

One argument I hate, is that it's "perverted." in what way? I mean, Iguess cause its not natural. But not natural and perverted are very different.

 

 

 

ps. oh yea, i'm gay.

You're a Christian, right?

 

How do you reconcile Christian beliefs on homosexuality with being gay? Also, assuming you live in a Christian community with Christians in your family (I think you've said this before, but I could be wrong), how do you deal with it then? Are you open about it?

 

I'm genuinely curious.

 

 

 

At risk of sounding pretentious, and pompous. I'm a bit strange of a Christian. Here are my beliefs:

 

 

God is Real.

 

 

For some reason, no matter what anyone tells me, I just know God is real. I want to be a Psychologist (kind of... I want to research brain disorders\mental disorders. Causes, prevfention etc.) and every time I learn more about the brain, I simply cannot wrap my heard around this simply coming from nothing. I mean, I'm sure you know Warrior, the brain is fascinating, and I really don't know how this could be done by anyone but God. I wouldn't say I'm headstrong, I simply idk.. brainwashed? But that's off-topic.

 

 

I have absolutely no idea on what God thinks of Gays. I only call myself a Christian, because I believe in the Christian God, no matter what. However, I've never talked to God (I have npo idea how anyone is able too. And this next part might seen a tad nonsensical... But I am extremely resentful against God, because when I was little I used to always tithe and pray and do all the little things Christian boys should do. And after having many traumatic things happen to me... I came to the realization I was gay. And in the Bible it says we'll go to hell. Ofc I'd like to believe thats not true... But everyone I've asked says it is. So I've not reconciled with my beliefs at all. I've prayed to not go to hell, I read in the Bible somewhere God said drop your material objects and follow me. SO I did... And was still gay. So I've given up on that.

 

I live with a family of 7, a pretty stereotypical bible belt family. My dad is a senior head reporter for the 700 Club (Pat Robertson's lil' hate club) ( http://www.cbn.com/ ) my mom is the founder and head chair of the Hampton Roads (our general area) tea part. (obama hate club) and brothers and sisters are introverted [bleep]ed up little broodlings. My whole family is extremely homophobic, though not openly homophobic (they're good at acting open minded. I simply make comments about that "hot chick" down the street and luckily they're gullible enough to believe it. I only don't tell them because not only will they kick me out, I'm am literally afraid of them killing me. (they have a gun in their room.) so naturally I hide all my gay books etc. in a rly good hiding spot. So I've only come out to 3 friends. And well.. everyone at work, cuz they're all girls, and all lesbians. hah. Besides, most people think I'm straight...I only came out on tif cuz I figured based on the stereotype that liberals like gay ppl you guys wouldn't mind. And I don't really deal with it, everyday I wake up my parents are going on about how awful the world is, how gays caused a natural disaster like Katrina etc. They blame gays for most of the world'd [cabbage], so I just endulge into my Marilyn Manson and Runescape/friends and hope when I die I'll be in heaven.

 

 

I hope that answered your question ? it was probably a lot more then you wanted. Hah. Feel free to put a tl;dr I won't be offended.