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WWIII - Oh teh noes...


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If you're american and go to Russia...you're screwed. Their recent proganda is training their children to hate amwericans to the bone. They'd tear you limb form lmb, burn you, drag you underneath a car, and then blow up whatevers left without thinking twice. The reason us and Russia don't mix is mainly because of the political stances and because ever since WWII both our sides have feared the other power because of the confilcting world powers. Thinking someone else can take you out is a scary thought, and that's what caused the cold war. They were preparing to take us out while we were weak, and right now, we're going abck to that stance. We are spread out across the world, with only 1/4 of our military here (3million sodliers). If I were Russia, I'ld attack Europe, then the U.S.

 

 

 

Russia and USA are currently in getting a long really well. At the moment there's some argues about USA's missile shield project, but to show how badly Russians hate Americans, think this: Putin was ready to fund a big part of it if it gets build to somewhere else than it was planned to.

 

 

 

Currently Russia's domestic policy they are more going for old Soviet countries. There are almost daily riots (around the country, not only in major cities) with native russians against the minorities. Many big political parties/spokesmen/leaders are openly for getting some parts of the old USSR back (Dagestan, Chechenya and many other autonomic areas) but attacking USA is something that isn't even seriously discussed about.

 

 

 

Europe isn't a target for Russia. First of all, that's a war that everyone would lose. Second, one of the main reasons for their economical rise is Europe. All the time more and more European money is being bumped to Russia and staying there, unlike during Yeltsin's regime when the money was made there and bumped back to Europe. Also with Russian's gaspipe plans Europe is definately not the place they would attack.

 

 

 

Also I didn't include this, but in the paper I wrote on this, I lso stated about the Venezualan Al-Quedai cells in the jungles comming up and launching a joint strike on us with Russia and Iran. China included as thst was added in. Russia came form the North through alaska and into washington, Iran hit Florida, the cells hit texas, and China California. Russia and China join up at california and the Iraniansd held Florida..they and the teorrorists get their [wagon] handed to them, but because of use spread out across Europe and our own country we aren't able to hold off the russian and chinese. Supply routes? Through Hawaii and the bering strait. Our only hope would be to withdraw form ht eEuropean theater, butt he nthey would most liekly fall, and then all those russians and chinese would be here. Pretty much, we get screwed ither way.

 

 

 

Didn't really understand what you tried to say here to be honest. Where did you even get the Iran+Russia+China allie? Too much Tom Clancy? Seriously, that kind of an allie would cause so much trouble to both Russia and China that it just isn't worth it. That would mean a stop to their economical rise due boycotts and rise the risk of a big war too much.

 

 

 

Also Venezuela can't be a place where any "terrorist" cells can grow big enough to cause true damage to USA in militarical ways. USA's intelligence agencies are definately good enough to spot a rising numbers of training camps rising in South America.

 

 

 

Nukes would ge tused, and exchanged heavily. Once 1 nuke goes up now, 15 more pop up. That's waht every country is afraid of. Unfrtuanelty, we have a monkey for a president who keeps trying to delcare war on Iran (e's tried i think 8 times in past 5 months, and is generals are about to resign).

 

 

 

You gotta understand that nukes got the power to destroy this whole planet. If a new world war started, Russia, China and USA Would stay away from each other for the reason that a war would most likely end into a situation where everyone loses everything.

 

 

 

and if done correctly could nuke America, with no counter strike back

 

 

 

Soviet Union had radars to detect nukes already in 1970s. There's no chances that a nuclear attack big enough to destroy any of the 3 big comes as a surprise. Smaller attacks may be done, but there are no chances they could watch USA blowing off the air without retaliation.

 

 

 

You just don't nuke a country, you cut off resources, cut off power, cut off internet cords, direct your air pollution towards the target, direct waste into their waters, 'accidently spill some acid, or disease in the water'...

 

 

 

You know that things like that would be just like trying to turn off a fire by throwing gasoline to it. Those things could be seen as a war declaration and that's something Russia, USA or China just can't afford.

 

 

 

 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject:

 

I',m just glad I live in Canada, and am Canadian. A friendly country we are. Cool

 

 

 

If the US got into a full scale war (not some pitiful thing like Iraq), and bush cheated his way through the polls, and was still president 2012+, and no one had shot him yet. The US would lose in my opinion. Russia+China, they are quite lethal and if done correctly could nuke America, with no counter strike back. You just don't nuke a country, you cut off resources, cut off power, cut off internet cords, direct your air pollution towards the target, direct waste into their waters, 'accidently spill some acid, or disease in the water'...

 

 

 

I don't mean blantly cut off the resources, it would be way more simple to buy the resources for a higher price over a 7 year period, then when they start to realise their resources are gone, they become more desperate, and either buy higher, or make in country.

 

 

 

Also, everything I listed should be spread very thin across a 20 year period, or 30. Then start moving in, not too fast, very slow, start putting in some special forces as immigrants, smuggle in guns+other things. Start making trade routes, so your not huffing your way through, start planning, plan through plan A to plan Z.

 

 

 

Have key inside bases. stock up on supplies(dried food, which can last an entire battalion for 3 years, or more.

 

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Sneak in, go by the sky in anti-radar planes, don't drop in amounts of thousands, but drop in by hundreds, go through Canada, and past the Canada-U.S. border(its unguarded, or sort of...) Set up bases in Montana underneath the ground. Start re-assorting machinary. Then attack from the south-west of U.S. Take out military basis on the coast, and inner-coast. Sneak special forces into a main power grid facility, take out power, the power grid is vulnerable. Then once you get half of the country(the land, not people), under seizge, start moving east towards california. When that diversion is there, take out the thousands from the ground and quickly move east to New York. Then if China, was allied, their forces could move across the pacific, and well, with New york under attack, and south west U.S. and all the cities towards california being attacked, the U.S. will launch missiles to Russia, where they can be intercepted by China, or home-defense machinary...

 

 

 

That would be a too big operation. It would be seen far too quickly and the risk of a war would be far too big, just like in the "terror case" you said earlier.

 

 

 

However a revolution wouldn't be impossible in USA if the general attitude changed a lot, economical situation was bad and right people were at the right place in right time. The breaking of USSR was a good example of this kind of a thing. However unlike USSR, USA most likely wouldn't get split: after all USSR was pretty much a bunch of countries/nationalities collected under 1 flag whereas USA's one nation and one country under one flag.

 

 

 

Edit: And now as we mentioned some of these semiautonomic places which belong to the Russia's federation, let's get some links :P Pretty cool places there actually.

 

 

 

Tuva: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuva

 

Krasnoyarsk Krai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasnoyarsk_Krai

 

Irkutsk_Oblast: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkutsk_Oblast

 

Ust-Orda_Buryat_Autonomous_Okrug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ust-Orda_B ... mous_Okrug

 

Tomsk_Oblast: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomsk_Oblast

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Also, this is something that I thought should've gotten more attention, one of those flights went a mere 2 miles from one of our bases and the sodleirs reported them to look to be dropping bombs. This was one of those long range bomber flight. Reports say they were off course...but of course, and they don't notice it? An d continue their practice flight? Hm...

 

 

 

 

You think the USAF would let a foreign military aircraft get within 2 miles of a military base, let alone a russian aircraft?. Even if the russian aircraft did get into the airspace, the russians are known for having an interest in western/Nato operations and sending reconaisance planes to check it out, which are then intercepted and escorted out of the airspace.This has happened in Scotland many times recently, and always when there has been a Nato training exercise in the Atlantic

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You know that things like that would be just like trying to turn off a fire by throwing gasoline to it. Those things could be seen as a war declaration and that's something Russia, USA or China just can't afford.

 

If you spread them across the time period I specified, and its done by different countries, and if the disease, or pollutions aren't that serious, but cause minimal effect, so they don't raise too much alarm.

 

 

 

 

That would be a too big operation. It would be seen far too quickly and the risk of a war would be far too big, just like in the "terror case" you said earlier.

 

 

 

However a revolution wouldn't be impossible in USA if the general attitude changed a lot, economical situation was bad and right people were at the right place in right time. The breaking of USSR was a good example of this kind of a thing. However unlike USSR, USA most likely wouldn't get split: after all USSR was pretty much a bunch of countries/nationalities collected under 1 flag whereas USA's one nation and one country under one flag.

 

Right people(Russia, and China), right time(who knows if things go very wrong with the market right now, and add in any variable that may happen in 1-30 years).

 

 

 

What part would raise alarm? The implementing of Russian troops? If done correctly, I don't think so. The raid on U.S. would happen after and I don't expect it to nto raise alarm. If everything is spread evenly, and done with some skill, it could happen, also if China, and Russia were to share some of the tactics, it may just work...

 

 

 

Highly unlikely yes, but if you hate the U.S. and your pushed by people in your government...

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Most people here actually think the political situation know is the same as during the Cold War. Maybe just don't know enough about it because in my country there has been no army in more than 50 years ::' , but why do you people think Russia/China would attack the U.S. out of a sudden? What would the reason be?

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If you spread them across the time period I specified, and its done by different countries, and if the disease, or pollutions aren't that serious, but cause minimal effect, so they don't raise too much alarm.

 

 

 

What would be point of that? If you wanted to cause some real problems, you'd gotta go so far that the alarm bells would ring.

 

 

 

What part would raise alarm? The implementing of Russian troops? If done correctly, I don't think so. The raid on U.S. would happen after and I don't expect it to nto raise alarm. If everything is spread evenly, and done with some skill, it could happen, also if China, and Russia were to share some of the tactics, it may just work...

 

 

 

Moving a large amount of military vehicles or troops would be noticed in notime. With normal infantry a strike would be noticed far too quickly. No matter what strategies used there. Also there would be no point doing that: a war between those nations would just mean the end of this planet.

 

 

 

Maybe just don't know enough about it because in my country there has been no army in more than 50 years

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, where do you live?

 

 

 

but why do you people think Russia/China would attack the U.S. out of a sudden? What would the reason be?

 

 

 

They won't attack, no matter did they have a real reason or not. A war between 2 out of the 3 bigs would equal to a war where everyone loses and no1 wins and they know it for sure.

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...
Maybe just don't know enough about it because in my country there has been no army in more than 50 years

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, where do you live?

 

Costa Rica. ::'

 

 

 

but why do you people think Russia/China would attack the U.S. out of a sudden? What would the reason be?

 

 

 

They won't attack, no matter did they have a real reason or not. A war between 2 out of the 3 bigs would equal to a war where everyone loses and no1 wins and they know it for sure.

 

Exactly my point. If Russia launched a nuclear missile towards the U.S., their government would know about it and would react in the same way before the missile reached the american continent. Then, even after the populated places were overrun with atomic bombs, there would be enough missile silos and submarines to continue the attacks afterwards. Also, allies of either side would come in to attack, only propagating the destruction. In short, no world Great Power will attack any other soon.

 

 

 

But my question still stands, even if we had the same technology as in WWI, why would Russia or China want to attack the U.S.? What would be the reasons behind it?

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You don't need to raise the alarms to cause large amounts of damage. If you slowly erode something away, it'll be gone, and I doubt it'll come back>.>.

 

 

 

Your talking about an infantry of a thousand or so troops, with vehicles. I think its quite possible to dissemble, and move in small numbers that you wouldn't be noticed.

 

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Meol, if we had the same technology as back then, our resources would already be depleted, or very close. That would probably start WWIII. Take out everything we have now, that wasn't available back then, and then stretch out from the 1920s-1930s to now with the same tech stuff, and do you honestly think we'd have enough food to sustain the population? How many times did the human population double from 1920, to now, 2007-08? WE had 1billion people at 1900 or something, we have 7billion now? Resources>depletion>war.

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Meol, if we had the same technology as back then, our resources would already be depleted, or very close. That would probably start WWIII. Take out everything we have now, that wasn't available back then, and then stretch out from the 1920s-1930s to now with the same tech stuff, and do you honestly think we'd have enough food to sustain the population? How many times did the human population double from 1920, to now, 2007-08? WE had 1billion people at 1900 or something, we have 7billion now? Resources>depletion>war.

 

:wall: Sorry, my mistake. With "the same technology as in WWI" I tried to mean military technology, trying to get weapons nuclear bombs, long range missiles, etc. out of the argument, in order to have a hypothetical example for my question: Even if there was no the danger of obliterating a half of the world, why would China/Russia attack the U.S.?

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Oh, militech. :anxious:

 

 

 

They'd attack

 

1. They dislike Americans.

 

2. Russia would gain more imports from China, and probably boost their markets.

 

3. Because they could without too much risk, yes major causalities, but its taking over a country?

 

4. Politics, and some of China's 'big world idea's' would become possible.

 

5. China could possibly get more land, and become less crowded.

 

6. Russia dislikes Americans.

 

7. China, and Russia may obtain new technologies.

 

 

 

 

 

Those are the only ones that come to my mind. Some are probably flawed, and that I'm going to get quoted my butt off. ^^

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Oh, militech. :anxious:

 

 

 

They'd attack

 

1. They dislike Americans.

 

2. Russia would gain more imports from China, and probably boost their markets.

 

3. Because they could without too much risk, yes major causalities, but its taking over a country?

 

4. Politics, and some of China's 'big world idea's' would become possible.

 

5. China could possibly get more land, and become less crowded.

 

6. Russia dislikes Americans.

 

7. China, and Russia may obtain new technologies.

 

8. China, and Russia could settle a score with the U.S. (China has two nukes, and Russia lost two wars...)

 

 

 

 

 

Those are the only ones that come to my mind. Some are probably flawed, and that I'm going to get quoted my butt off. ^^

 

 

 

It goes back to the same ending. They can launch nukes at us, but we'll launch them right back. So, we won't be going down alone. But this is still completely improbable. Our contries are smart enough to know that it would be pointless to attack each other. They may settle a score, but the fallout would kill so many others in other countries (depending on the wind pattern), that they would be global enemies #1. So, theoretically, they would be attacked soon after, thus ensuring they wouldn't be able to "take over the world".

 

In the end, this is just another conspiracy theory. Based on select facts, and not all.

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It goes back to the same ending. They can launch nukes at us, but we'll launch them right back. So, we won't be going down alone. But this is still completely improbable. Our contries are smart enough to know that it would be pointless to attack each other. They may settle a score, but the fallout would kill so many others in other countries (depending on the wind pattern), that they would be global enemies #1. So, theoretically, they would be attacked soon after, thus ensuring they wouldn't be able to "take over the world".

 

In the end, this is just another conspiracy theory. Based on select facts, and not all.

 

 

 

Um, didn't we invent nukes in the 60s-90s? Not the 20s? Or did you just not read the previous page, or meol's question?

 

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The UK would probably try and stay out of it as long as possible. But as soon as a nuke went up, every country that could, would get involved, and probably 8 massive armies would be warring. Eventually though, it'll boil down to two sides, who kill each other up, and then the cockroaches will mass-produce because of the dead bodies, and will become the dominant species.

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That sounds exactly like a dream that I had once.

 

 

 

The Russians and the Chinese basically unified and started a global revolution. They started a new form of government called Neo-Bolshevism and created a party called the Advent.

 

 

 

Actually I had 3 dreams about the same thing. The dreams were all linear as well. The first one was about a HUGE Great Purge in the not-so-distant future. The second one was third-person and I could see the lives of the average person with the tension from a huge war about to take place. The third one was about the War itself and the destruction of the Earth with nuclear warfare. Of course, the Advent won as they crushed the United Nations.

 

 

 

It was really frightening.

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Russia is our friend guys. The people who say we are enemies have watched to many movies. China is our friend now to, but I do believe it is inevitable that will change in a few decades. But for the next 20 years? Please, sure China is big but its military tech is lagging. They are working to advance their military but at the moment there planes up against the F-22 would be like a samurai against an Uzi. Boats as well, nothing can match the Aegis system at the moment and China has a mere 1 serious aircraft carrier, and it is much smaller than the Nimitz class. The U.S. has 13 aircraft carriers. Each one could hold it's own against a regular sized country.

 

 

 

Finally, you can't just declare open war on the United States. Even if you ignore everything else that the US has going for it... one thing ensures that fact that the U.S. cannot be fought against in an open war of aggression.

 

 

 

And that's these bad boys.

 

[hide]ohio2.jpg[/hide]

 

 

 

The US has dozens of nuclear subs, and just one... just one is needed to ruin someone's day. If a sub lies down on the ocean floor it is completely and utterly invisible. It could be there for milennia and not be found. Anyway if a war with China were to start, just send a half dozens subs to international waters near Japan and have the wait. They can live n their own for months, even years without surfacing. Anyway if one year passes and they get no word back from the U.S. (meaning the US lost the war and/or is taken over) then the subs can launch their nukes. Each sub carries dozens of nukes and the sub commanders would love nothing else but to kill hundreds of millions of citizens of the country that just invaded their nation.

 

 

 

Not very pleasant the think about, but its true. As long as the U.S. has nuclear subs, they really can't truly, truly lose a war. They can "lose" a war by just getting sick of it (like Vietnam) but the U.S. can never, never actually get invaded and taken over.

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...but the U.S. can never, never actually get invaded and taken over.

 

 

 

But, they can be defeated by a not-so-country, or very early country in the making, twice, and be pushed back. So I wouldn't use never, then use it again in bolded. Yes we've gone a long way since then, and everything would probably be different variables, but history does prove things.

 

 

 

We're(As in the U.S.-.-) friends with Russia and China? In case you didn't notice, Russians have made tons of protests against Americans(CNN, I"ll try and look for a website link...). The Chinese? I'm sorry but there's way to much of things there. I'm Canadian, and I know America and China, or Russia are not on good terms.

 

 

 

I'd also like to mention, if they go to the bottom of the seabed, and were there for a year, they can be heard by new technology of Russia's, and I'm sure Russia would give China the tech to find subs. Also, besides the human element, subs bottom of the sea floor, are still vulnerable to natural variables, such as underground volcanoes, earthquakes, and strong under-water currents, which can exceed 1.3k mph. They would be found, or most of them, and if they slip through not hurt, they would eventually die, or be captured, with, or without a fight. If the Country fell, so would any connections, over due time.

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Oh, militech. :anxious:

 

 

 

They'd attack

 

1. They dislike Americans.

 

2. Russia would gain more imports from China, and probably boost their markets.

 

3. Because they could without too much risk, yes major causalities, but its taking over a country?

 

4. Politics, and some of China's 'big world idea's' would become possible.

 

5. China could possibly get more land, and become less crowded.

 

6. Russia dislikes Americans.

 

7. China, and Russia may obtain new technologies.

 

8. China, and Russia could settle a score with the U.S. (China has two nukes, and Russia lost two wars...)

 

 

 

 

 

Those are the only ones that come to my mind. Some are probably flawed, and that I'm going to get quoted my butt off. ^^

 

Would you think those points (1 and 6 are the same, 8 is flawed as it was Japan that was nuked) would suffice for a war to break out? I mean, for example, in order to achieve 2 war isn't necessary or helpful, is it?

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I only read about two pages worth of this post so if anyone covered this already my apologies.

 

 

 

We came 3 miles from the Chinese border while trying to get troops to a certain part of Vietnam, and the Chinese dispactched 1...just 1, of their divisions. Our normal division is roughly 100,000-200,000 soldiers. The divison they dispatched contained over 1 million soldiers.

 

A division isn't even close to as large as what you describe here. An average division is 10-20,000 strong. You might find this interesting.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_(military)

 

 

 

So, just recently on the news, it was stated that the Russians and Chinese, the only 2 countries that are a threat to the U.S. allied and are begginning training together.

 

Did you know during the Cold War Russia had a ton more divisions on the Chinese border than they had on the German border? They don't trust each other at all.

 

 

 

Also, this is something that I thought should've gotten more attention, one of those flights went a mere 2 miles from one of our bases and the sodleirs reported them to look to be dropping bombs.

 

Do you have a link to this story? I seriously doubt they went into US airspace with bombers.

 

 

 

And even if a few million soldiers comming towards you isnt enogugh (their initial invasion force would be roughly 120million-200million soldiers) the main risk would be how we'ld have to combat this. The only way we can do this, is a nuclear strike.

 

Interesting. So China would mobilize 1/5 of it's entire country and send it across the ocean to invade the US? How exactly would they supply 200 million people? How would they get enough ships to supply 200 million people? How would there even be enough infrastructure to move 200 million people around once they got where they were going? How would they have enough men left in their country to keep manufacturing, farming, and all the other necessary industries running with so many abroad in war? How would they get the money to support an army this large?

 

 

 

Let's say China was able to actually get 200 million men on US soil by teleportation to make things even easier for the invasion... Those men would be dead within six months. Do you know why? They would starve to death. There wouldn't be enough guns or bullets for them to use either. The US Navy would slaughter supply convoys coming to feed them. The US Air Force would slaughter naval convoys as well as trucks in the area of land they controlled on US soil. That army would be begging to go home. It would be a slaughter.

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Russia is making nuclear weapons. They've got a running factory on Novaya Zemlya. (Don't quote me on any of that.) Also, they are messing with Estonia, which means they're trying to secretly instigate something. But this is all Putin, and he's bringing Russia back into its former darker past aka the USSR/Soviet Union. He needs to be impeached from office so the Post-USSR Gorbachev-Russia can continue onward and leave its dark depressing past behind.

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Russia is making nuclear weapons.

 

 

 

200px-O_RLY.jpg

 

 

 

Producing more, fixing or updating nuclear arsenals shouldn't really surprise anyone.

 

 

 

Also, they are messing with Estonia, which means they're trying to secretly instigate something.

 

 

 

Doesn't look too secret IMO and not even too surprising (but definately not acceptable!) Estonia is after all part of the old USSR, the smallest NATO country that has boarder with Russia and close to St. Petersburg.

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why would China/Russia attack the U.S.?

 

 

 

Why does the U.S attack any other country? Seriously, stop basing your claims off of Tom Clancy.

 

 

 

And trapical - just because a country's technology is inferior to anothers doesn't mean it's a given victory for one side. Take the Korean War for example. West Point historians have always wondered how the Chinese were able to hold the US forces to a standstill. The US had superior airpower (China had less than a dozen Russian planes) and more advanced weapons. The only thing the Chinese had going for them were the sheer number of troops, and their infantry tactics. Yet they still managed to complete their objective by pushing US and UN forces out of what is today known as North Korea and prevented another Allied push back into North Korea.

 

 

 

Of course, when you measure victory in terms of lives lost like people tend to do, China obviously were on the 'losing' side of the Korean war.

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