qeltar, think for a second what you are saying and then imagine oyu are the person who is forced to quit over how things change, for arguments sake.

 

 

 

Who would be forced to quit? and why would they be forced to quit? If anyone quits over this, they make a choice to leave, it's not a forced action.

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

 

As I clearly said in my previous post, I don't believe they should just take them out. They should provide compensation of some sort.

 

 

 

Some people will still quit, though, because they have too much of themselves tied up in these items. Unfortunate, but that's one of the reasons why they need to go.

qeltar, think for a second what you are saying and then imagine oyu are the person who is forced to quit over how things change, for arguments sake.

 

 

 

Who would be forced to quit? and why would they be forced to quit? If anyone quits over this, they make a choice to leave, it's not a forced action.

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

 

As I clearly said in my previous post, I don't believe they should just take them out. They should provide compensation of some sort.

 

 

 

Some people will still quit, though, because they have too much of themselves tied up in these items. Unfortunate, but that's one of the reasons why they need to go.

 

Sorry, but who are you to judge who deserevs to go and who doesnt based on your incorrect assumption?

 

Sinse when is runescape about discrimination? You talk about being tied up in something - you yourself are tied up in serious rare hate and are condemning people over it.

 

 

 

Jagex needs to be and let be and find real solutiosn to problems as opposed to dscrimination.

The ITEMS need to go, not the people.

 

 

 

And for God's sake will you STOP with the insults? :roll:

The ITEMS need to go, not the people.

 

 

 

And for God's sake will you STOP with the insults? :roll:

 

how in the world did I insult you!?!!?!?!?

 

Im just saying, you cant condemn and judge. Your assumption that ares are the root of all evil are not correct. Its your point of view.

 

 

 

There are other points of view and opinions. Killing rares will make people upset (dont want to guess how many) and they will quit.

 

 

 

Discriminating against a group of people who perfer a certain playstyle isnt best thing to do was my point, you seem to misunderstand me every time, I wasnt insulting you in any form shape or way. Its just your statements and point of view, this strong hatred toward my kind and our "precious burger king hats"

ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

i'm bloody sick of this fight i thought this was about rares prices not a flaming war :x (though i don't agree at all with qelter). first of all get back on topic, second stop fighting, third don't post stuff that will start this war again.

 

 

 

anyway am i the only one who has noticed a resemblance with something that happened a long time ago? can't think of it yet? hmm how about i name this event the rare market crash

 

also i think the stocks are going to go up very soon

I finally understand qeltars way of thinking. He operates under the assumption that everyone should be equal and equally wealthy (a sort of communist look on things).

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that can not owrk for 1 simple reason, same reason that communism failed. You have your smart people and not so smart, hard working and lazy. Everyone is different and as such can not be equal and trying to force equality will only make the matters worst.

 

 

 

Not to burst your bubble or anything, or to really butt into the conversation, but communism didn't fail, and in fact never really existed. What you are refering toas communism was in fact socialism (a totalitarian state, rather than a class-less state). True Marxist communism has never actually existed.

I finally understand qeltars way of thinking. He operates under the assumption that everyone should be equal and equally wealthy (a sort of communist look on things).

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that can not owrk for 1 simple reason, same reason that communism failed. You have your smart people and not so smart, hard working and lazy. Everyone is different and as such can not be equal and trying to force equality will only make the matters worst.

 

 

 

Not to burst your bubble or anything, or to really butt into the conversation, but communism didn't fail, and in fact never really existed. What you are refering toas communism was in fact socialism (a totalitarian state, rather than a class-less state). True Marxist communism has never actually existed.

 

Either way you know what he means. The rares argument often comes down to this viewpoint. Some people think rares are an unfair advantage and think it's not fair for them to be in the game and that they ruin the game for others. They want everyone to be exactly equal in every way possible - aka a communist ideology.

 

 

 

Pro-rares people think that rares do no harm to the game. In terms of an unfair advantage, they believe if there is one, it's been largely negated and more by the fact that new players nowadays get xp and money at a much faster rate, so that one thing is ok.

 

 

 

I own a few rares and don't see how anyone could think they negatively effect the game. If you don't own one, they don't effect you. If you're lucky enough to have some, you'll be making some good money. That's where the capitalist "it takes money to make money" view comes in.

Awright then, it's Thanksgiving vaca, I can't sleep, and noone's on AIM... Curse my luck! So I hop on here. What a beauteous little conversation... OK, so here's my take on the rare market and how it should be treated.

 

 

 

To me, rares have always been the only way to combat inflation in the game. Up until the Godsword (which, Qeltar, I have read your article on btw), dfs, and d full helm, all other items were GUARANTEED to fall in price as time went on. Rares however, were virtually guaranteed to rise, or at least not to fall. So, after I reached 99 fletching after... I guess it's been 3 years of gameplay... I bought a santa hat. Then I decided, "Hey! My Runecrafting is horrible and I could use some more cash before school starts!" So I then runecraft double cosmics quite a few levels... Then I look at my bank account and think, "Wow, I'm pretty rich compared to all my friends..." and decided to give out about 7 mil between all of them (yes, I know, I'm a cheapskate). Then I keep skilling. I accumulate more money and buy another santa hat, holding out for X-mas so I can finally buy those useful items I've always wanted (then the Godswords came out and I felt kinda poor :P). Now, looking at my bank account with 2 santas, 15 mil cash, and assorted items, I do one thing... *drags table over and smacks head off of it*. Yes, rares have always been a source of corruption, but they've also been a safeguard for legitimate players who don't want to play the roller-coaster merchanting game, watch all their accomplishments degenerate into mucus, or simply get busy with life and want to come back to an account at roughly the same standing it was before. Now I have no problem giving up that safeguard if it's for the greater good of everyone (although I really wish greedy morons who trust charlatans offering free rares would be the ones forced to grow up instead of me *ahem ahem*), but I would have appreciated one thing: a warning. A nice little, "Hey, we're gonna destroy your livelihood, so watch out!" Jagex dropped 2 bombs on the populace in this single update, taking out investors and stakers. Even with imminent domain governments let people know when they're about to be bulldozed! Is it so much to ask for the same courtesy given my playing record? Ah well... Maybe I'll quit RS and do something productive like learn an instrument... HA! Nah, I'll still play regardless of how it goes. I like this game that much :P

 

 

 

P.S. It's midnight, so sorry about one big goopy paragraph and mangled sentence structures.

 

 

 

P.P.S. If anyone feels like talkin about this til I pass out, Private chat's on.

i think its funny that whenever theres an update people always ask if it will affect the rares.

 

 

 

 

 

if you cant obtain the item anymore, then the ammount of them can only go down, thus the price can only go up.

 

 

 

it may go down temporarily, but the item cant be replaced so the prices will go back up, NOW QUIT ASKING

 

 

 

use your fricken brains

I'm always honest about my views and have never hidden my disdain for the greed-oriented aspects of the game, including the obsession some have over silly paper hats.

 

 

 

What greed? If someone has 1,000,000,000 gp in the game completely legitimately, is that greed? So people who use/sell/buy/own rares are playing the greed-oriented aspect of the game? Most of the kills in RS is all about the accumulation of items like gp, logs, ores, runes, armor, weapons, etc.

 

 

 

You didn't work hard for your $, by your own admission. You bought some junk, left for three years, and when you got back found that it was worth more.

 

 

 

Not exactly. 10 mil back then was worth much more than it was now. You can't compare it to today when everything is so much easier and there is no overcrowding or lack of training/gathering spots.

 

 

 

There are millions of players who work a lot harder and never get a fraction of that amount of $.

 

 

 

Not at all. A person playing nowadays has it very, very easy compared to what older players have been through. You can't really appreciate this fact unless you were high level in RS1. Fletching, for example, was a money-losing skill if you bought the materials and there was no fletch x. Remember when trading was by 12s and there were no bank notes? :P If you were wealthy when phats were cheap then it wasn't easy to be wealthy back then.

 

 

 

I've sold a total of 3 santa hats in my whole RS playing. Sorry if I was greedy to get 30m gps. Even though it took that much to level to 115 (99 str and att, 95 hp) in RS1 4 years ago. I haven't even mentioned my other skills.

Rares are dropping in price, yet I still can't afford them unless I sold all my runes herbs and seeds and high alched a lot of my bank. I don't want to do that though since I doubt i could sell everything in time to buy them cheap (and there's also the fact that I like my stuff).

I finally understand qeltars way of thinking. He operates under the assumption that everyone should be equal and equally wealthy (a sort of communist look on things).

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that can not owrk for 1 simple reason, same reason that communism failed. You have your smart people and not so smart, hard working and lazy. Everyone is different and as such can not be equal and trying to force equality will only make the matters worst.

 

 

 

Not to burst your bubble or anything, or to really butt into the conversation, but communism didn't fail, and in fact never really existed. What you are refering toas communism was in fact socialism (a totalitarian state, rather than a class-less state). True Marxist communism has never actually existed.

 

Just to let you know, I was born and grew up in USSR. So you telling me what and wasnt there isnt very credible on my side. As for the comparison, I was comparing the idea in general.

I'm always honest about my views and have never hidden my disdain for the greed-oriented aspects of the game, including the obsession some have over silly paper hats.

 

 

 

What greed? If someone has 1,000,000,000 gp in the game completely legitimately, is that greed? So people who use/sell/buy/own rares are playing the greed-oriented aspect of the game? Most of the kills in RS is all about the accumulation of items like gp, logs, ores, runes, armor, weapons, etc.

 

 

 

You didn't work hard for your $, by your own admission. You bought some junk, left for three years, and when you got back found that it was worth more.

 

 

 

Not exactly. 10 mil back then was worth much more than it was now. You can't compare it to today when everything is so much easier and there is no overcrowding or lack of training/gathering spots.

 

 

 

There are millions of players who work a lot harder and never get a fraction of that amount of $.

 

 

 

Not at all. A person playing nowadays has it very, very easy compared to what older players have been through. You can't really appreciate this fact unless you were high level in RS1. Fletching, for example, was a money-losing skill if you bought the materials and there was no fletch x. Remember when trading was by 12s and there were no bank notes? :P If you were wealthy when phats were cheap then it wasn't easy to be wealthy back then.

 

 

 

I've sold a total of 3 santa hats in my whole RS playing. Sorry if I was greedy to get 30m gps. Even though it took that much to level to 115 (99 str and att, 95 hp) in RS1 4 years ago. I haven't even mentioned my other skills.

 

Bank notes? LoL! I played when there was no banks period! Althoguh sadly I didnt catch on about rares till wayyyyyyy later.

 

 

 

Remember when there was no offer-x for money, I do! You had to stay in trade for like 15 mins to get a mil. And abck then that mil was worth a lot, not like it is today.

 

 

 

The screen shot where I show mys tuff in trade prior to quitting 3 years ago was my merhcanting accomplishment back then. Now I use it to have fun, train skills, and enjoy the game with friends.

 

 

 

If I am greedy to worry about my achievement then I am greedy.

wow this has gone off topic

...I've been saving up for a while to buy a Santa and finally bought one last night

 

 

 

when i woke up and logged in the next day, i found out the price dropped 3mil

 

 

 

I'll say yes, it did affect prices. I hope jagex recovers from this mistake.

wow this has gone off topic

:|

my my....

 

what a nice read over 5 pages...

 

 

 

First off, o/t: rares will sink/have sunk the past days, in the long run they will go up. So people quit.... I pity them to quit over such a think, but it will make rares even rarer. It might take a while, but eventually they will go up again.

 

 

 

*puts flame cloak on*

 

 

 

As for the rest of the discussion, I then to agree with Qeltar. Too many people are too obsessed with intrinsically wothless items -rares that is. Yes, I believe that these items are a (not "the") source for real life trading. They are an investment to some, a sort of achievement cape for some merchanters, a nice looking item for me.

 

 

 

As to the people who say rares are useless, they are NOT. They are a sort of stock, an invetsment. If you invest in a rare (note: not buy it as accomplishment or for looks) you also have to put up with the rollercaoster price changes. So...p-hats are down at them moment because of the DA update. True investors would not whine for their loss, the invest in more because they can buy them "cheap" now, and they will go up in the long term.

 

 

 

As for people quitting over this... So be it. I feel kind of sorry for them, but RS is not about p-hats. It is a MMORG, that has many, many more aspects (combat, skilling, friends etc.) than merching. If it is only 1 thing you like about the game, then consider doing another one of which you enjoy MORE then maybe 1% of its content. Not saying anyone SHOULD quit, not telling anyone what to do, but if you quit the last percent of the game you actually enjoyed after this update, then I think you should have moved along a long time before.

 

 

 

We had something vaguely similar when pure essecnce was brought to the game. Whiners quit, and I think good riddance. There's too much whining around RS about things that have very little to do with RS as a game.

That's where you're mistaken. Jagex can create rares with the snap of a finger.

 

 

 

With this logic you could aswell say that skills are worth nothing as Jagex can also boost them from 0xp to 200m in no time. Also it's a fact that players can't create any more discontinues (well, you can turn your cracker into a phat if you feel like losing at least few hundred million gp) but more and more useful items (such as 3rd age) fload to the game every day.

 

 

 

This same applies for real world too. Gucci could produce more purses if they wanted, Rolls Royce could do the same with cars and Hugo Boss with suits.

 

 

 

Yet, those items are kept uncommon by pricing. They aren't expensive because they'd be more useful than purses made by Chinese child workers and sold for 2$/purse, Rolls Royces were that much better than Fords or Hugo Boss suits were made out of diamonds and gold.

 

 

 

They are bought for representing your economical and social status, not because they gave the best usefulness:price ratio. Same goes for rs rares. I didn't get my phats or farming capes because they were great, I took them (and am wearing even atm) for the fact that they are status symbols showing something new for the others and my rares are gaining value in a long run. Might sound selfish, but heck, RS wasn't sosialistic system when I last time checked.

 

 

 

Btw have you ever thought of this. Jagex has created 0 phats/crackers after christmas 2001 and same goes with ALL other discontinueds. Players have managed to create them once and paid a huge price for it. Same time these precious tulpins were produced almost daily, there's your difference for it.

 

 

 

From your postings I get a picture of you blaming rares for everything that's wrong in RS. If the situation was this easy, rares would already have been removed ages ago.

 

 

 

Your defintion of usefullnes is rather vauge. First its about Phantoms( The Flagship line of Rolls Royce) being not much more usefull than Ford Mondeos, but you then proceed to say that Hugo Boss suits are not made out of diamonds and gold. Yet a diamond studded suit is not much more useful than an ordianry suit in anyway.(other than being probabbly bulletproof)

 

So is it a value:price or usefullness:price ratio?I'm guessing its still usefullness:price, but even then "usefullness" encompasses many areas.

 

A Gucci wallet is much more useful than a $2 wallet in many ways. Firstly, a Guci wallet is guaranteed to last longer than a $2 made in china wallet. This longer lifespan translates into being able to put your cash into the wallet for more times than your $2 wallet and hence more useful. Secondly, a Gucci wallet is somthing which one can bring to cocktail parties and not be laughed at, unlike a $2 wallet.

 

 

 

Of course this might sound simplistic, but the fact is that when considering "usefullness", we are in fact, considering value of the object and this is the difference between a Hugo Boss suit and a Phat. The suit has an intrinsic value, unlike the Phat, whose only value arises from it being a relic of the past and rare and something that cannot be obtained anymore. It may symbolize N hours of playing(where N>10*2342325) but the Phat itself hase no real value and thus different from the Hugo Boss suit

 

 

 

Also

 

Neither Gucci nor Rolls Royce are able to produce more wallets, hadbags or Phantoms even if they want to(to a very large extent). The reason why they are so expensive is because they are value-added(read worth much more than the total cost of materials needed to make that wallet put together)

 

 

 

The craftsmanship is what makes it stand out from a Made In China wallet. This is neither marketing nor exaggeration, as every rolls royce is handmade from scratch and compare the time taken to make a rolls royce as compared to an ordinary saloon(25 days to 9 hours) you would realize that. And the time spent by these carmakers or wallet makers is what translates into the high price you pay for a Gucci handbag or Rolls Royce. And while buying a Rolls Royce or Gucci handbag IS a representation of economic status it is also a gaurantee of quality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you get my point, then you would realize that your example is overly simplistic and "This same does not apply to the real world too"

some1 cries rares are crashing and burning...goes out and buys his 7bn of rares and comes back 2 weeks after the update has been fixed and sells his rares for 12bn....

 

Im honestly glad your true colors come out with every post.

 

Ive always considered myself to be a good judge of character and now I can safely say I was 100% right about you from the very first reply by you that I read. What person takes joy in the fact that a lot of people who worked hard for their $ (read as doing what they consider fun in the game) end up losing a lot of it (not that they will, because being a self proclaimed economist still doesnt mean you know anything about runescape economy).

 

 

 

And i am honestly glad at you honest attempt to blow your own trumpet.

 

I'll be frank, i admit that i am biased against you, and therefore would probabbly attempt to flame you. But your personal attacks to our friend qeltar are making me sick.( see? attempt at flaming sry :D ) Where are these personal attacks you may ask? Well they are right here of course "self-proclaimed economist", "Operating under the phylosophy that anybody who doesnt skill shouldnt have $ is just so self centered and selfish" and perhaps "Hopefuly nobody believes tehse false previews and jealousy-filled statements" pretty much eh?

 

 

 

Now, before scorpion attempts to flam---sorry i mean persuade me to his viewpoint, let me give my two cents worth of opinion. Firstly, I would like to correct certain misconceptions.

 

#1 There is no inflation in Runescape, if anything, the opposite is happening. Yes u read it correctly; there is Deflation in runescape. How so? Look at the prices of raw materials, a good example would be coal. Coal certs were 1k ea in RSC days and now each piece of coal fluctuates around 150-200+ meaning that coal prices have remained relatively stable. However, as compared to RSC days, we get Gp much more easily nowadays. What does this mean? This means that 1gp in RS2 would equal less than 1gp in RSC in terms of difficulty in obtaining that one gold piece. Yet the price of coal has remained the same, implying that our real purchasing power has in fact increased! How so, one may ask. Heres how:

 

1. Lets say in RSC we took N minutes to obtain 200gp, so that we could buy 1 piece of coal.

 

2. In RS2, we now would take M minutes to obtain the same 200gp to buy the same piece of coal

 

3. But we know that M

 

4. Now we repeat the above process with a fixed time limit.

 

5. At the end of the time limit, we would realize that using RS2 we gained more coal than using RSC

 

6. But what does mean? This means that in RS2 we actually have a greater purchasing power than in RSC

for all we know, the prices may go up! :evil:

 

Since I've never owned a rare, I hope the prices go down so I can buy one :twisted:

Well, I usually don't merchant at all, but due to the update, all the big stakers have been selling off thier rares as they no longer need them.

 

 

 

Because of this, I have been buying them cheap and then selling them on for cheaper then the merchants making a nice profit of around 15,000,000 in 2 days, but this of course won't go on much longer as the merchants are starting to adapt to the new prices.

 

 

 

I dont think the prices will shoot back up, but will instead level at around the following prices for a bit:

 

 

 

Red - 33m

 

Blue - 22m

 

Green 18m

 

 

 

They are my estimates :)

 

 

 

Before the Duel arena, prices were more like:

 

 

 

Red - 35m

 

Blue - 24.5m

 

Green 21m

 

 

 

The day of the duel arena update, the cheapest I saw (and bought) was the following:

 

 

 

Green 15m

 

Blue 19.5m

 

Red 28m

 

 

 

So yes, the prices have risen back up slightly, but I dont think they will be anywhere near thier old level for a few months atleast

as soon as people reolize this price drop them will start buying, the price always stabalized then goes up, its just a trend I've seen with past rare crashes. Everyone says it wont and then it does. I expect them to go back up, ALOT, with a bit of time, then drop back down to a stable price similar to what it was.

 

 

 

How are people suppose to get rares now? 91 rc? or if you had a rare before?

 

 

 

i got green from slayer and not even close to 99

 

 

 

of course rc gets u a phat as well

 

 

 

boss monsters,....

 

 

 

Hi klugksi<3 Got any stuff to sell me?

 

 

 

hey =)

 

sorry i wait for GE - if it doesnt turn out as i expect u can of course have them again ;)

Does anyone remember that Jagex never intended for rares to become a rare and super expensive?

Remember when there was no offer-x for money, I do! You had to stay in trade for like 15 mins to get a mil. And abck then that mil was worth a lot, not like it is today.

 

 

 

Duuuuude! And you would get logged out for inactivity. That's what I mean, ordinary things people now take for granted was 10x harder before.

 

 

 

Back on topic, I saw people trying to buy santas for 11 mil but no one was selling. People are madly trying to snatch up ultra-cheap rares but no one is selling for 50% the price before the duel update.

 

 

 

Hey, and I resent the word "obssessed" just because people think about the market doesn't mean they spend every waking moment on it.