EdgedThesis Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Wasn't he Deist? But I don't want to go among mad people!Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 [hide=]why be subtle though, if god were to truly reveal himself in magnificent fashion he could greatly reduce human suffering and bring many to salvation. I fail to see how tasking people with finding their own salvation makes it worthwhile. Secondly, if the bible is the word of god why do so many great people come about without believing in it. Einstein was an agnostic(formerly jewish) but noone would deny the amazing things he did and his good character. A good portion of scientists working on such varying things as cancer and hiv cures are certain to be agnostics or atheists, why are they such noble men if they arent following what is true? If the word of god isnt the only path is it really the word of god, does one not find a better path by striving to understand the logical reality of the universe and the sublime beauty within?[/hide] Einstein was not Agnostic, he was Atheist. Though I may also add, if the Bible is the word of God, why are the works of William Shakespeare better? 1. He was Agnostic. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html 2. Your opinion on whether something is better than the Bible or not is irrelevant to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 There is no God. It is greatly improbably for (the existence of whatever God is) to be Omnipotent and Omniscient. To be Omniscient you have to be infinitely complex - so complex that you can read the minds of every human being, listen to prayers and know the future etc. God would have to be so unimaginably complex. There is a greater probability therefore, that God does not exist. Omnipotent? What is his limit? Can God have the knowledge to create a boulder so big he can not live it. Does god have the power to change his future mind? To answer these questions one enters into an infinite regression therefore proving that Omnipotence and Omniscience are not compatible. If God knew the future, then we would not have freewill, we would only have the illusion of freewill. In which case, why does he create souls that he knows are going to Hell? God does not exist. That's you're opinion. So you're saying that we exist because of nearly impossible events occuring many times (Such as life sprouting from a chemical mix, the Earth being the perfect distance from the Sun as not to fry anything alive, etc.,) is more probable than a creator? I fail to see the logic. God can do everything that doesn't contradict itself, no God can't make a sandwich so big even he couldn't finish it, or make rock so heavy he couldn't lift it, what you are saying is nonesense and therefore null and void. God change his future mind? Time is an illusion, it is merely a series of events of change within an object that are recorded, and we percieve this phenomena as time. It is a finite thing now matter how long it goes on because it had a beginning, and God existed before time, and he will exist afterward if it ever ends. In other words, God has no beggining, or an end. Like I said, God limits himself so that we have free will, but he could do whatever he wants at any time. God is not a coward, He wants something that can think for itself to choose the right path, not a puppet. Im sorry but please think about what you write. It is not my logic that is faulty, it is yours. We do exist from numerous improbable events. The fact that we are here proves that life can begin under such circumstances. Your argument from improbability is an extremely vacuous statement. The idea of an intelligent (whatever god is...) is of many orders of magnitude more improbable than the universe being created from natural events. As I have already stated; a God that can read peoples minds, answer prayers, know the future and can somehow transcend the laws of physics (to name but a few of his abilities) must be so immensely complicated, his existence becomes very doubtful. Simply put, if you are arguing that it is too improbable for life to occur naturally, it is in reality, more improbable for an intelligent designer to create the universe. God does not solve the problem; who created the creator? Surely the real beginning of everything should begin with the creation of God? How do you know God can not make a sandwich so big even he could not finish it? How do you know God can not make a rock so big even he could not lift it? Time is not an illusion, it exists - we are constrained to our perception of it. How do you know that God limits himself so that we have free will? How do you know God is not a coward? How do you know he does not want a puppet? For something you know nothing about, because there is no evidence for his/her/its existence, your assumptions are purely speculative. The truth is, even if God did exist, we would still know nothing of his/her/its workings (scientifically), certainly we would not know enough to make ridiculous assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 [hide=]why be subtle though, if god were to truly reveal himself in magnificent fashion he could greatly reduce human suffering and bring many to salvation. I fail to see how tasking people with finding their own salvation makes it worthwhile. Secondly, if the bible is the word of god why do so many great people come about without believing in it. Einstein was an agnostic(formerly jewish) but noone would deny the amazing things he did and his good character. A good portion of scientists working on such varying things as cancer and hiv cures are certain to be agnostics or atheists, why are they such noble men if they arent following what is true? If the word of god isnt the only path is it really the word of god, does one not find a better path by striving to understand the logical reality of the universe and the sublime beauty within?[/hide] Einstein was not Agnostic, he was Atheist. Though I may also add, if the Bible is the word of God, why are the works of William Shakespeare better? 1. He was Agnostic. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html 2. Your opinion on whether something is better than the Bible or not is irrelevant to the discussion. Albert Einstein: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 [hide=]why be subtle though, if god were to truly reveal himself in magnificent fashion he could greatly reduce human suffering and bring many to salvation. I fail to see how tasking people with finding their own salvation makes it worthwhile. Secondly, if the bible is the word of god why do so many great people come about without believing in it. Einstein was an agnostic(formerly jewish) but noone would deny the amazing things he did and his good character. A good portion of scientists working on such varying things as cancer and hiv cures are certain to be agnostics or atheists, why are they such noble men if they arent following what is true? If the word of god isnt the only path is it really the word of god, does one not find a better path by striving to understand the logical reality of the universe and the sublime beauty within?[/hide] Einstein was not Agnostic, he was Atheist. Though I may also add, if the Bible is the word of God, why are the works of William Shakespeare better? 1. He was Agnostic. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html 2. Your opinion on whether something is better than the Bible or not is irrelevant to the discussion. Albert Einstein: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." However, it would also seem that Einstein was not an atheist, since he also complained about being put into that camp: "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 On the subject of the probability of intelligent beings randomly popping into existence, consider that our planet is tiny speck located in one arm of our galaxy, which is in turn part of a cluster of galaxies, which is turn part of a supercluster. Superclusters may contain as little as a few hundred clusters, or thousands of clusters. There are hundreds of thousands of superclusters. The probability of life NOT forming given the expanse of the universe is extremely low. Our planet is the perfect distance from the sun, but we've recently discovered an extrasolar gas planet that has moons that are the perfect distance from their star. That is only one example from a system that is close by. Will intelligent life form on every planet that can support life? No, not necessarily. Is it probable? Absolutely. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I do not have the information available to me to counter this point (Einstein) at the moment, as I am not at university. Morningrise, you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Albert Einstein said calling him agnostic was the most accurate if you had to label him. His model of god is more of god as a force like gravity or magnetism, but calling him an atheist is horribly inaccurate. Believing there to be something (literaly) divine in the learning and understanding of the nature of the universe is not atheism. I like to think I can begin to understand what Einstein believed here, and from what ive read of various quotes he did believe in something beyond; maybe not a god per se but maybe the presence of what we would call god even if the being doesnt exist. and personal god means god in the form of a deity, which does not cover all models of god Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Regardless of Einstein's religious convictions, we are deviating form the topic at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Im sorry but please think about what you write. It is not my logic that is faulty, it is yours. We do exist from numerous improbable events. The fact that we are here proves that life can begin under such circumstances. Your argument from improbability is an extremely vacuous statement. The idea of an intelligent (whatever god is...) is of many orders of magnitude more improbable than the universe being created from natural events. As I have already stated; a God that can read peoples minds, answer prayers, know the future and can somehow transcend the laws of physics (to name but a few of his abilities) must be so immensely complicated, his existence becomes very doubtful. Simply put, if you are arguing that it is too improbable for life to occur naturally, it is in reality, more improbable for an intelligent designer to create the universe. God does not solve the problem; who created the creator? Surely the real beginning of everything should begin with the creation of God? How do you know God can not make a sandwich so big even he could not finish it? How do you know God can not make a rock so big even he could not lift it? Time is not an illusion, it exists - we are constrained to our perception of it. How do you know that God limits himself so that we have free will? How do you know God is not a coward? How do you know he does not want a puppet? For something you know nothing about, because there is no evidence for his/her/its existence, your assumptions are purely speculative. The truth is, even if God did exist, we would still know nothing of his/her/its workings (scientifically), certainly we would not know enough to make ridiculous assumptions. You do not know how we got here, what makes your claims about the origin of the Universe any more relevant than mine? Is it evidence? Well there is plenty of that. http://www.godandscience.org/slideshow/sld001.html How do I know that God doesn't want puppets? It is written in the Bible that he gave man the freedom of choice to follow him or not. He can't make a sandwich so large he can't finish it because the statement contradicts itself and doesn't apply to God because it's nonesense. That's like saying "Can God make something so black that it's white?" It doesn't make sense. Why would God fear his own creations? Especially since he wields infinite power? My friend, It's a matter of opinion. You can't prove either side of the argument. It all has to do with the person and their own conclusions. This debate is already over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 that slide show was pointless imo yes, we dont have the exacts of the big bang figured out yet, so what? Good science takes time, and we cant exactly make a model to study this type of thing. The reason God doesnt work in scientific research is that he/it simply defies physical laws. Just introducing an unprovable god and saying he did it is useless to science because it doesnt allow for explanation, I dont care if god did something, I want to know how he did it. We can of course debate philosophical matters such as if god cause the big bang, and its quite an interesting topic to discuss. Certain scientific facts have been entirely proven, there are of course gaps such as how life spontaneously generated and specifics around the big bang but science will always move forward. Eventually, science will be able to explain nearly every single detail, and it will get closer and closer as time moves on. Settling for "god did it" limits what humanity is truly capable of, by hunting for the hows and whys of the universe we see the divine beauty that is science. When I look up at the stars I see something more beautiful then a universe made by god, I see a near infinite expanse that we can understand through math, and a scope beyond the human mind that could not even be imagined just a few centuries ago. on a side note the core of christian morality (10 commandments and love thy neighbor as theyself) are a very good moral code to abide by. Im agnostic and have no problem with religion, my complaints come about when fundamentalists try to explain things through a model that ignores any factor that disagrees with it. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1991 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 If Man were to create a super-computer that could chart every single particle existent on earth, and calculate what science dictates to be the outcome, Man too could have the power to predict the future. But that would not change our ability to choose. It's just that what we choose has already been known. Anyway, I have a question. When you say God limits his power to allow us free will, does he limit the full extent of our decisions? Does he cut short the chain reactions? As we breathe and move, we jostle atoms which jostle other atoms, wave after wave of particular collision until the atomic dominoes result in a tidal wave or a storm, everything on Earth a result of just our actions at any one time. If he does not limit the Butterfly Effect, he has no power here on Earth. We do. If our theories on quantum physics are correct then this is not true. Isn't one of the ideas that at the most basic level it is random? Hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattle Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 that slide show was pointless imo yes, we dont have the exacts of the big bang figured out yet, so what? Good science takes time, and we cant exactly make a model to study this type of thing. The reason God doesnt work in scientific research is that he/it simply defies physical laws. Just introducing an unprovable god and saying he did it is useless to science because it doesnt allow for explanation, I dont care if god did something, I want to know how he did it. We can of course debate philosophical matters such as if god cause the big bang, and its quite an interesting topic to discuss. Certain scientific facts have been entirely proven, there are of course gaps such as how life spontaneously generated and specifics around the big bang but science will always move forward. Eventually, science will be able to explain nearly every single detail, and it will get closer and closer as time moves on. Settling for "god did it" limits what humanity is truly capable of, by hunting for the hows and whys of the universe we see the divine beauty that is science. When I look up at the stars I see something more beautiful then a universe made by god, I see a near infinite expanse that we can understand through math, and a scope beyond the human mind that could not even be imagined just a few centuries ago. on a side note the core of christian morality (10 commandments and love thy neighbor as theyself) are a very good moral code to abide by. Im agnostic and have no problem with religion, my complaints come about when fundamentalists try to explain things through a model that ignores any factor that disagrees with it. When i look up at the stars i see a near infinite expanse that we can understand through math, and a scope beyond the human mind that could not even be imagined just a few centuries ago...made by God. : Soz, i just couldn't resist. Thing is i'm fine with science revealing new things that we can see now, just not trying to backtrace the past beyond the earliest recorded human. Things always get sketchy there and nothing is ever known for sure. [hide=Interesting thing. I'm recalling it by mind since i can't seem to find it though. Soz.]Let's say you come home one day, only to find that the bathtub is full of warm water and ready for you. Now you ask yourself, how did this happen? How exactly would you know what had happened? You wouldn't unless you: [1] Were there yourself and saw who filled the tub, what filled the tub, etc. or [2]Someone else who was there themselves told you, not based on what they thought happened, but what they actually saw happen. or lastly [3]Whoever or whatever did this tells you they did it. Without this you cannot really know, you can only guess.[/hide] Now lets say God how revealed himself completely a few centuries ago...then people back then would have stopped trying, and looked to God for everything. Mankind would not have progressed as they have, or want to progress anymore. I think God knows exactly what he's doing and it's not our place to ask Him what he's thinking. If you know something someone else doesn't, and you decide to act on it, and the person now asks you what the hell are you thinking doing things this way? do you have to, or even want to, answer them? God reveals to us what he thinks we should know, to help us, or protect us, or for whatever reason tbh. So I'm not gonna try to figure out why God does what he does. And here i was doing such a good job not posting here anymore #-o Resisted some of the wrongest posts. But ohwellz, i can at least limit myself to only posting a little? lolz. :? [hide=]You think you got it bad?My school blocks Neopets.Those dirty bastards try to keep me from feeding my Ixi. Ha![/hide]Important Slayer Drops: masks-8, leafbladed sword, gmaul-3Important treasure trail rewards: zammy page 1(3), rune kite g, zammy crozier, sara mitre, sara dhide, rune helm h1, guth page 4(2), zammy full helm, guth legs(3), sara chaps, guth page 3, zammy legs(2), and sara full helm, zammy pl8, zammy page 2, rune cane, sara page, sara crozier, zammy crozier, guth coif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Im sorry but please think about what you write. It is not my logic that is faulty, it is yours. We do exist from numerous improbable events. The fact that we are here proves that life can begin under such circumstances. Your argument from improbability is an extremely vacuous statement. The idea of an intelligent (whatever god is...) is of many orders of magnitude more improbable than the universe being created from natural events. As I have already stated; a God that can read peoples minds, answer prayers, know the future and can somehow transcend the laws of physics (to name but a few of his abilities) must be so immensely complicated, his existence becomes very doubtful. Simply put, if you are arguing that it is too improbable for life to occur naturally, it is in reality, more improbable for an intelligent designer to create the universe. God does not solve the problem; who created the creator? Surely the real beginning of everything should begin with the creation of God? How do you know God can not make a sandwich so big even he could not finish it? How do you know God can not make a rock so big even he could not lift it? Time is not an illusion, it exists - we are constrained to our perception of it. How do you know that God limits himself so that we have free will? How do you know God is not a coward? How do you know he does not want a puppet? For something you know nothing about, because there is no evidence for his/her/its existence, your assumptions are purely speculative. The truth is, even if God did exist, we would still know nothing of his/her/its workings (scientifically), certainly we would not know enough to make ridiculous assumptions. You do not know how we got here, what makes your claims about the origin of the Universe any more relevant than mine? Is it evidence? Well there is plenty of that. http://www.godandscience.org/slideshow/sld001.html How do I know that God doesn't want puppets? It is written in the Bible that he gave man the freedom of choice to follow him or not. He can't make a sandwich so large he can't finish it because the statement contradicts itself and doesn't apply to God because it's nonesense. That's like saying "Can God make something so black that it's white?" It doesn't make sense. Why would God fear his own creations? Especially since he wields infinite power? My friend, It's a matter of opinion. You can't prove either side of the argument. It all has to do with the person and their own conclusions. This debate is already over. I will admit that there are many things in this world that I am ignorant about. I do not know how the Universe was created. I do not know the exact series of events that occurred that would eventually lead to our existence. But I do not pretend to know, or think that I know. It is important to admit when one does not know something - ignorance drives science. The problem is that you claim to know how the universe was created - well it is up to you to prove your assertions. Posting links to that spurious website is not evidence. (I am not getting into a debate about validity of sources) The questions are not stupid, because they are analogies to demonstrate the incompatibility of Omniscience and Omnipotence. For example; Does God have the power to change his future mind? My point is, even if God did exist, there is absolutely no evidence for him. Therefore, you can not make ridiculous assumptions about how he operates (scientifically). You do not know how God operates. If one thinks about the question logically and sensibly, with the facts that are present - one should only arrive at the conclusion that God does not exist. You claim that you can not prove either side of the argument - a vacuous statement. You can not prove that God exists. It is impossible to disprove the existence of anything, therefore Atheists can not disprove the non-existence of God. However, because there is absolutely NO evidence for the existence of God, one can only assume that he/she/it does not exist. And yes the debate is already over; God does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Soz, i just couldn't resist. Thing is i'm fine with science revealing new things that we can see now, just not trying to backtrace the past beyond the earliest recorded human. Things always get sketchy there and nothing is ever known for sure. We know for sure that Dinosaurs existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Barely. We have a hard enough time putting them together. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Your opinion. There are things in this world that can't be explained, and never will be no matter how far science advances. Causality. Everything in the Universe has been caused by something at a point in time no matter what it is. There are several theories on how the Universe began, such as the Big Bang. The question is, what caused the Big Bang? And whether the Big Bang theory is correct or incorrect, What caused that? Here's my argument that the existence of God is not illogical, but a very real possibility. Either something that was Un-caused created the Universe, or it goes back in an infinite loop. This is the most likely scenario for the existence of God. But that raises another question, how is this possible? Here's an excerpt from wikipedia- Cosmological argument One of the classic arguments for the existence of God is known as the "Cosmological argument" or "First cause" argument. It works from the premise that every natural event is the effect of a cause. If this is so, then the events that caused today's events must have had causes themselves, which must have had causes, and so forth. If the chain never ends, then one must uphold the hypothesis of an "actual infinite", which is often regarded as problematic, see Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel. If the chain does end, it must end with a non-natural or supernatural cause at the start of the natural world -- e.g. a creation by God. There are many critics for this argument, such as Steven Hawking- Critics of this argument point out problems with it. The Big Bang theory states that it is the point in which all dimensions came into existence, the start of both space and time. Then, the question "What was there before the Universe?" makes no sense; the concept of "before" becomes meaningless when considering a situation without time, and thus the concepts of cause and effect so necessary to the cosmological argument no longer apply. This has been put forward by Stephen Hawking, who said that asking what occurred before the Big Bang is like asking what is north of the North Pole. However, some cosmologists and physicists do attempt to investigate what could have occurred before the Big Bang, using such scenarios as the collision of branes to give a cause for the Big Bang. -excerpt from wikipedia My answer to the criticism for this argument is this- How do you know there was nothing before the Big Bang? Or if the Big Bang ocurred at all? What if God caused the Big Bang? If it did happen, it would have to be unnatural/ supernatural for it to have happened, in other words beyond our current understanding, or something that cannot be understood at all no matter how far science progresses. Then another issue comes up. They say that the belief in God only exists because of a lack of knowledge and understanding of the universe, but the same thing can be said about the Big Bang. Although there is evidence for the Big bang, not everything is explained. Here's an excerpt from a string theory/Big Bang theory article- The conventional model for the expansion of the universe assumes that the universe once existed as a very small, point-like volume called a singularity. Then the Big Bang occurred, and the universe rapidly expanded. An extension of this, and one main competitor of the brane model, is the Big Crunch/Big Bang theory, which assumes that the universe was once vast, then crunched down to a singularity before expanding. The Big Bang/Big Crunch model implies that time existed before the Big Bang. The problem with the Big Crunch/Big Bang model is that the mathematical laws of classical general relativity do not work at a singularity. And if scientists cannot mathematically understand the singularity, they cannot, in theory, fully understand the geometry of spacetime, either before the Big Crunch or after the Big Bang. Our brane model allows us to mathematically address what might have happened at the Big Bang, and also gives a novel interpretation of time in string theory, said Leigh. He and his group propose that time began when, via a Big Bang-like event, the brane decayed into closed strings (loops) that propagated off to create the ordinary matter that makes up the universe. This scenario, while avoiding the mathematical problems of a singularity, also helps explain some other issues. For example, to us, the universe looks the same in every direction. Within this brane model, the homogeneity of the universe could be explained as the result of an early universe with homogenous initial conditions, such as a brane that evenly filled space. Leigh and his colleagues may further explore this in additional studies -Brane Decay and an Initial Spacelike Singularity, Phys. Rev. Lett. 96, 031301 (2006) By Laura Mgrdichian, Copyright 2006 PhysOrg.com In other words, without string theory, the Big bang cannot be explained mathematically. But there are several problems with String Theory as well- Is string theory falsifiable? Following the appearance of two books claiming string theory is a failure,[17][18] a hot media debate evolved in 2007.[19][20]. "For more than a generation, physicists have been chasing a will-o-the-wisp called string theory. The beginning of this chase marked the end of what had been three-quarters of a century of progress. Dozens of string-theory conferences have been held, hundreds of new Ph.D.s have been minted, and thousands of papers have been written. Yet, for all this activity, not a single new testable prediction has been made, not a single theoretical puzzle has been solved. In fact, there is no theory so farjust a set of hunches and calculations suggesting that a theory might exist. And, even if it does, this theory will come in such a bewildering number of versions that it will be of no practical use: a Theory of Nothing." -excerpt from wikipedia In simpler terms, it's guesswork. There has not been a single test verifying string theory. But people say the same thing about God. So in the end, no matter what is proven or unproven, all of it boils down in to one simple word. Faith. Whether it be faith in an unproven scientific theory, or God, it's not ridiculous, it is a part of everyday life. It depends on the person what they believe in. So all of you are wasting your time arguing, it's most likely no one's opinion is going to change, the people that clicked on the thread probably didn't come here for answers, but to argue their point and not get anywhere with it. Your going to argue pointlessly for awhile, then the thread will die off when everyone gets tired. For a person to change, they have to want to change. So this thread is pretty much going nowhere, no matter what you say. Trust me, I've seen it before. So trying to change someones opinion when they don't want to change it is pointless, frustrating and nearly impossible to do. Try talking to people who are willing to listen to what you have to say. Can't find any? Hold a seminar and put up flyers. People who want to know more will come, trust me. The counter-productivity levels in this thread are OVER 9,000. So let's all agree to disagree, and get on with our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattle Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Soz, i just couldn't resist. Thing is i'm fine with science revealing new things that we can see now, just not trying to backtrace the past beyond the earliest recorded human. Things always get sketchy there and nothing is ever known for sure. We know for sure that Dinosaurs existed. Did you really? Did i not say that we could see now? sheeesh, you quoted it ffs. But on the whole extinction of them, we cannot be sure, we can only make guesses and get them as close as we think possible. And yes the debate is already over; God does not exist. How can you know that for sure? A few centuries ago, if you had told people that billions of galaxies existed or so, they would have said the same thing you're saying now. Does that make it correct? [hide=]You think you got it bad?My school blocks Neopets.Those dirty bastards try to keep me from feeding my Ixi. Ha![/hide]Important Slayer Drops: masks-8, leafbladed sword, gmaul-3Important treasure trail rewards: zammy page 1(3), rune kite g, zammy crozier, sara mitre, sara dhide, rune helm h1, guth page 4(2), zammy full helm, guth legs(3), sara chaps, guth page 3, zammy legs(2), and sara full helm, zammy pl8, zammy page 2, rune cane, sara page, sara crozier, zammy crozier, guth coif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 So let's all agree to disagree, and get on with our lives. I must say sir, that this is the only thing that I agree with you about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsta Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Soz, i just couldn't resist. Thing is i'm fine with science revealing new things that we can see now, just not trying to backtrace the past beyond the earliest recorded human. Things always get sketchy there and nothing is ever known for sure. We know for sure that Dinosaurs existed. Did you really? Did i not say that we could see now? sheeesh, you quoted it ffs. But on the whole extinction of them, we cannot be sure, we can only make guesses and get them as close as we think possible. I apologise for not understanding you, you did not articulate yourself properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattle Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Oh mb. soz. Well i think we should kill this thread now. Hope no1 else posts on it...and if it just so happens that i'm the last post, .... \ lolz. :lol: [hide=]You think you got it bad?My school blocks Neopets.Those dirty bastards try to keep me from feeding my Ixi. Ha![/hide]Important Slayer Drops: masks-8, leafbladed sword, gmaul-3Important treasure trail rewards: zammy page 1(3), rune kite g, zammy crozier, sara mitre, sara dhide, rune helm h1, guth page 4(2), zammy full helm, guth legs(3), sara chaps, guth page 3, zammy legs(2), and sara full helm, zammy pl8, zammy page 2, rune cane, sara page, sara crozier, zammy crozier, guth coif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Jay99 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Soz, i just couldn't resist. Thing is i'm fine with science revealing new things that we can see now, just not trying to backtrace the past beyond the earliest recorded human. Things always get sketchy there and nothing is ever known for sure. We know for sure that Dinosaurs existed. Did you really? Did i not say that we could see now? sheeesh, you quoted it ffs. But on the whole extinction of them, we cannot be sure, we can only make guesses and get them as close as we think possible. And yes the debate is already over; God does not exist. How can you know that for sure? A few centuries ago, if you had told people that billions of galaxies existed or so, they would have said the same thing you're saying now. Does that make it correct? A few centuries ago people also believed in Zeus and all those other Greek gods. Nobody still believes in those these days, what makes them different from the gods that exist nowadays? And are you seriously denying the existance of dinosaurs because you haven't actually seen them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 A few centuries ago people also believed in Zeus and all those other Greek gods. Nobody still believes in those these days, what makes them different from the gods that exist nowadays? Twenty centuries ago people believe in Jupiter and Demeter. People also believed in trees talking and witches. Jews believed in El, Elohim, and Adonai. Give it a few years, and while people still believe all that, a select group of people will begin to believe in God according to a young man named Jesus of Nazareth's different interpretations. Learn the history of religion before you try and use it, please. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistywerty Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Religious faith directly correlates with happiness. Not everything has to be rational, a satirical essay shown here just proves it so. People in OT eat glass O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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