Why didn't Jagex just remove skilling?

[llamster]

 

I have to ask you why my idea is any less idiotic than ruining staking and PK'ing for those who actively engaged in those activities?

 

 

 

First of all, Jagex did not 'ruin' PKing. They changed it, but the basics are still there.

 

 

 

Skills are far more important than staking/PKing. They are the very essence of the game, and by removing them, you might as well shut down the game. Making transferring gold impossible was much less radical than making gold farming impossible.

[Felter_Laur]

I recently played a private rs classic server that jagex threatened to sue and had shut down becouse it got hugely popular (over 2000 players).

 

That server had no non combat skills at all.

 

Congratulations.

 

 

 

Now that was funny. I still believe that Jagex will try to make the new version of player killing enjoyable for all of those pures and player killers who are out there. I personally don't care either way. I still risk being attacked when I go to the wilderness.

 

Real world traders were only indirectly affecting me. I didn't participate in player killing or trading for real money so I don't really care about this update. I like the idea of clan wars. It was too often that mini wars or full wars ended up with one clan severely "cheating" to win the battle.

 

 

 

I think that bounty hunter will be adjusted because right now (as far as I have heard) it is worse than the regular wilderness ever was.

 

 

 

I do not think that eliminating skills would be an ideal or even feasible alternative to take out the cheaters. If they got rid of non combat skills, it would eliminate some of the RPG element. I just don't think it would have been as good business sense as the elimination of the wilderness. I just wished they would introduce something up there to make me want to go there. I only go up there for clues and that is about it.

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

I can name several semi-popular games that lack non-combat skills.

 

The private server you played can be compared to MapleStory, just some PvP grind game.

 

Just because MapleStory was centered around PvP doesn't mean that RuneScape can take a turn for the worse and head in that direction, though.

[Alg]

I recently played a private rs classic server that jagex threatened to sue and had shut down becouse it got hugely popular (over 2000 players).

 

That server had no non combat skills at all.

 

Congratulations.

My point is, 2000+ people played this game and it had no non combat skills at all, so they are hardly necissary, despite what you skillers seem to say they are.

 

For some of us pvp WAS that game, everything else was a means to an end, more effective pvp.

 

yet, you can also look at the runescape 2 login page, every world that is not bounty hunter has no player killers at all, at least none in it for large profit. in most, people are going on with their game-lives without it.

 

for most, skills are the game, much more than pking. the argument goes both ways, as you said.

 

 

 

you can make an account that has no combat skill and succeed. before the wilderness update and the staking fix, you could make an account based entirely off combat, or specifically, offense and make billions.

[killerbook1]

if they removed skills that would be stupid. many other players and I love skilling. if they removed them im sure many people would quit rs altogether.

[brave]

When will people get it into their thick skulls that the auoters/gold farmers are not the cause of the RWT problem, but the effect? The only reason the autoers/goldfarmers existed was to support the RWTer's. If Jagex has taken the course to remove skills currently autoed then the autoers/gold farmers would simply have moved to other skills. RWT would still have continued.

 

 

 

The only way Jagex could get rid of autoer's/gold farmers is by cutting off the methods the RWT's used to pass the gold onto their customers. Like it, or not, one of the easiest ways to do this was via PKing, which is the main reason PKing and the wilderness HAD to change. Although I do not agree with what Jagex has done, as it has removed one of the "unique" features of RuneScape, I can see the logic in doing what they did.

[Leoo]

:shame: No, Skilling shouldn't be removed, and won't. Player killing hasn't entirely gone, Bounty Hunter is there for the replacement. Why would Jagex need to remove Skills whereas they have made the changes to stop real world trading and goldfarmers. Of course, they're are going to be a few bots here and there...but whats there work going to achieve if they cannot real world trade. Skilling is just... Whereas PKing was enjoyed by a few, and hated by the rest.

[Sly_Wizard]

if they removed skills that would be stupid. many other players and I love skilling. if they removed them im sure many people would quit rs altogether.

 

 

 

Who cares if you quit? The game would be auto'er free and that is the ultimate goal :)

 

 

 

When will people get it into their thick skulls that the auoters/gold farmers are not the cause of the RWT problem, but the effect? The only reason the autoers/goldfarmers existed was to support the RWTer's. If Jagex has taken the course to remove skills currently autoed then the autoers/gold farmers would simply have moved to other skills. RWT would still have continued.

 

 

 

No, they wouldn't have. There's a reason why auto'ers engaged in the activities they did whilst ignoring the rest-- Because other skills are simply too labor/time intensive to be able to turn any kind of real life profit profit in doing them. I mean, since you mentioned it, what other skills were auto'ers going to turn to? Crafting? Smithing? Fletching? Hunter? Slayer? I really want to know.

 

 

 

The only way Jagex could get rid of autoer's/gold farmers is by cutting off the methods the RWT's used to pass the gold onto their customers. Like it, or not, one of the easiest ways to do this was via PKing, which is the main reason PKing and the wilderness HAD to change. Although I do not agree with what Jagex has done, as it has removed one of the "unique" features of RuneScape, I can see the logic in doing what they did.

 

 

 

There is no 'logic' in what they did. True 'Logic' would dictate that Jagex get rid of the skills auto'ers direct engage in, not the ones they don't. True 'logic' would dictate that Jagex remove the trade function all together, as no trading whatsoever would all but kill RWT'ers. Making a faulty cause and effect assumption and using that as a basis for removing a complete area of the Runescape map seldom used by auto'ers to trade isn't 'logic'-- That's a fallacy.

 

 

 

I mean, how can anyone claim that the wilderness HAD to change? Just how many RWT'ers used the wilderness to trade as opposed to the number of RWT'ers who simply stood in one of the safe zones in Runescape to trade? I'd be willing to bet that the number was all but minute. Why the hell would anyone risk being PK'ed when they could easily-- And I mean easily-- Make 'unbalanced trades' in a much safer area? If you were a RWT'er would you trade in the wilderness?

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

 

I mean, how can anyone claim that the wilderness HAD to change? Just how many RWT'ers used the wilderness to trade as opposed to the number of RWT'ers who simply stood in one of the safe zones in Runescape to trade? I'd be willing to bet that the number was all but minute. Why the hell would anyone risk being PK'ed when they could easily-- And I mean easily-- Make 'unbalanced trades' in a much safer area? If you were a RWT'er would you trade in the wilderness?

 

 

 

ANY form of item transferring has been changed! Dropping, staking, dying, and soon to be trading.

 

Just because few RWTers went to the wilderness to die doesn't mean it should be left untouched. If it was left the way it was, then the wilderness would be the only way to transfer items and WOULD NOT STOP RWTers! The whole reason for all the changes!

 

 

 

And you claim RWTers took a risk in the wilderness? Pfft. You obviously haven't tried to PK on a below 1000 population world that wasn't an official PKing world. Good luck trying to find another PKer in that ghost world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When will people get it into their thick skulls that the auoters/gold farmers are not the cause of the RWT problem, but the effect? The only reason the autoers/goldfarmers existed was to support the RWTer's. If Jagex has taken the course to remove skills currently autoed then the autoers/gold farmers would simply have moved to other skills. RWT would still have continued.

 

 

 

 

 

No, they wouldn't have. There's a reason why auto'ers engaged in the activities they did whilst ignoring the rest-- Because other skills are simply too labor/time intensive to be able to turn any kind of real life profit profit in doing them. I mean, since you mentioned it, what other skills were auto'ers going to turn to? Crafting? Smithing? Fletching? Hunter? Slayer? I really want to know.

 

 

 

That sentence is partially correct. Autoers did engage in certain skill because others are too labor/time intensive. But that's because there are better activities to create a profit! Once you remove those activities, necessity will drive them to use the less-efficient forms of money-making.

 

As for being labor/time intensive, what's all that mean to a never-resting bot?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Removing skilling from RuneScape would be like having unnecessary surgery to remove your hands.

 

 

 

Realize the difference between a side-activity and something that's absolutely vital. PvP is a side-activity; skills are vital.

[Sly_Wizard]

And you claim RWTers took a risk in the wilderness? Pfft. You obviously haven't tried to PK on a below 1000 population world that wasn't an official PKing world. Good luck trying to find another PKer in that ghost world.

 

 

 

It's an unecessary risk that few, if any, people would take. Since you didn't answer my question the first time I asked it, I'll ask it yet again. If you were a RWT'er, which would you rather do? Trade in, say, Varrock or conduct a PK-trade in the wilderness?

 

 

 

I know what *I* would choose and I am fairly sure I know which one you would choose, as well.

 

 

 

That sentence is partially correct. Autoers did engage in certain skill because others are too labor/time intensive. But that's because there are better activities to create a profit! Once you remove those activities, necessity will drive them to use the less-efficient forms of money-making.

 

 

 

As for being labor/time intensive, what's all that mean to a never-resting bot?

 

 

 

No, you wouldn't drive them to less-efficient forms of money-making. You'd drive them to a game with more efficient means of money making. You see, fishing, mining and woodcutting (As well as flax picking, although not technically a skill) were the main choices because they required the least amount of monetary investment (All you need is a cheap bronze axe/pickaxe or a net) and the least amount effort (Click once, wait for inventory to fill up, run to bank, run back to tree and repeat) in comparison to the profit to be had making them. All other skills require some type of intermediate good, which is then processed into the final good. And, even then, the profits aren't that good unless you happen to collect every ingredient/material yourself. Since we know that these weren't bots but, as Jagex decided to label them, 'Chinese sweatshop workers', everything. If you were a 'sweatshop owner' why would you waste your time on a game in which the real life profits are lower than the profits to be had elsewhere? You wouldn't.

 

 

 

Realize the difference between a side-activity and something that's absolutely vital. PvP is a side-activity; skills are vital.

 

 

 

Didn't we already go over this? Non-combat skills are useful for one thing and one thing only-- Arbitrary quest requirements.

[Sly_Wizard]

And you claim RWTers took a risk in the wilderness? Pfft. You obviously haven't tried to PK on a below 1000 population world that wasn't an official PKing world. Good luck trying to find another PKer in that ghost world.

 

 

 

It's an unecessary risk that few, if any, people would take. Since you didn't answer my question the first time I asked it, I'll ask it yet again. If you were a RWT'er, which would you rather do? Trade in, say, Varrock or conduct a PK-trade in the wilderness?

 

 

 

I know what *I* would choose and I am fairly sure I know which one you would choose, as well.

 

 

 

That sentence is partially correct. Autoers did engage in certain skill because others are too labor/time intensive. But that's because there are better activities to create a profit! Once you remove those activities, necessity will drive them to use the less-efficient forms of money-making.

 

 

 

As for being labor/time intensive, what's all that mean to a never-resting bot?

 

 

 

No, you wouldn't drive them to less-efficient forms of money-making. You'd drive them to a game with more efficient means of money making. You see, fishing, mining and woodcutting (As well as flax picking, although not technically a skill) were the main choices because they required the least amount of monetary investment (All you need is a cheap bronze axe/pickaxe or a net) and the least amount effort (Click once, wait for inventory to fill up, run to bank, run back to tree and repeat) in comparison to the profit to be had making them. All other skills require some type of intermediate good, which is then processed into the final good. And, even then, the profits aren't that good unless you happen to collect every ingredient/material yourself. Of course, if you collected your own goods, you wouldn't be very time efficient. Since we know that these weren't bots but, as Jagex decided to label them, 'Chinese sweatshop workers', everything. If you were a 'sweatshop owner' why would you waste your time on a game in which the real life profits are lower than the profits to be had elsewhere? You wouldn't.

 

 

 

Realize the difference between a side-activity and something that's absolutely vital. PvP is a side-activity; skills are vital.

 

 

 

Didn't we already go over this? Non-combat skills are useful for one thing and one thing only-- Arbitrary quest requirements.

[sithlord_man]

If you got rid of skilling, how to collect raw materials that require skills to get?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

 

Realize the difference between a side-activity and something that's absolutely vital. PvP is a side-activity; skills are vital.

 

 

 

Didn't we already go over this? Non-combat skills are useful for one thing and one thing only-- Arbitrary quest requirements.

 

 

 

Oh, I guess you forgot the part where almost all of our non-combat skills link back directly to Combat. Dark bows, whips, Dragon arrows and darts, and other things that aren't found in shops...how else are we going to get those? Remember that when you go around flinging your whip like it's your right to have it.

[Adventurer]

Didn't we already go over this? Non-combat skills are useful for one thing and one thing only-- Arbitrary quest requirements.

 

Feeder skill. Pking was one of many consumers in the game (and still is to a lesser extent: Bounty Hunter) while the 3 skills you mentioned are feeder skills into the game; they drive a large part of the game.

 

 

 

Problems:

 

Take out those skills, and you'll make several refinement skills (like smithing, cooking, fletching) obsolete...

 

OR

 

...you'll have to turn what's left, combat, into a feeder skill just like in MapleStory. Somehow I don't see that working in Runescape with its limited geographic size and limited spawns. I don't see too much room to put a ton of monsters that drop raw materials. Even if you made fewer monsters drop more material, you would find that everybody would compete to kill the monsters, causing problems.

[Sly_Wizard]

Oh, I guess you forgot the part where almost all of our non-combat skills link back directly to Combat. Dark bows, whips, Dragon arrows and darts, and other things that aren't found in shops...how else are we going to get those? Remember that when you go around flinging your whip like it's your right to have it.

 

 

 

*Directs you towards one his posts located at the bottom of page one*

 

 

 

The whole "This game relies on skills" argument is becoming increasingly untrue as time progresses. The best weapons and armor aren't player made but rather dropped. You can go to your nearest magic shop and load up on every rune you could possibly need. The same goes with arrows. Food is becoming increasingly obsolete, due to: 1.) Safe spots and 2.) Alternative healing methods (i.e., Guthans). More and more monsters are beginning to drop potions that used to only be player made. Need I continue?

 

 

 

The notion that skills drive this game, while it might have been true years ago, is nothing more than poppycock now. Skills in this game are slowly being phased out and are becoming useful for one thing and one thing only; Meeting arbitrary requirements in order to do a quest. Quests could easily be rewritten so that they rely more on wits and combat than needing 40 agility to climb a rope so you can talk to an NPC

 

 

 

Right now, the only skill which can be described as a truly integral part of Runescape would be slayer (Combat related), even though I find the concept behind slayer to be completely stupid. All others are well... Not all that important in providing players with the best items to be had in the game (Granted, I'm tired so there's probably one or two examples I'm leaving out).

 

 

 

Already anticipated this argument and responded to it 8-)

[Owned_Nex]

Heh owned...

 

 

 

The only reason skiling is in this game is because Jagex intended this game to be a "skiller game". EVERY aspect of "honor" and 1v1 PKing has been DESTROYED.

 

 

 

I wouldn't care much if skilling got taken out, but I guess the game would be too empty

[Alg]

part of the fun of the game is that you don't need to fight or trade at all to be successful.

[Junkie_Joe]

Although the macroers were hated for filling up the training spots, this wasn't the main problem.

 

The number one problem was the fact that the RWTers could transfer money from their accounts, to their buyers.

 

Therefore, Jagex removed every possible way of transferring money (with nothing in exchange) from one account to another.

 

Removing skills wouldn't help at all. The gold farmers would just find another way to make money, leaving us with the same problem.

 

And if Jagex was to remove every skill used to make money, we'd have to live off the drops we receive,

 

and with no fishing and cooking skills, we'd have to buy our food from the shops.

 

And since there's no way to make money anymore, we'd have to...

 

Well, I don't know what would happen then.

 

 

 

Bottomline: Removing the skills would do nothing but harm the game.

 

Now I'm sure somebody will say exactly the same about how removing the wilderness did nothing but harm the game,

 

but that's an eternal debate.

[Locutus_Of_Borg]

And you claim RWTers took a risk in the wilderness? Pfft. You obviously haven't tried to PK on a below 1000 population world that wasn't an official PKing world. Good luck trying to find another PKer in that ghost world.

 

 

 

It's an unecessary risk that few, if any, people would take. Since you didn't answer my question the first time I asked it, I'll ask it yet again. If you were a RWT'er, which would you rather do? Trade in, say, Varrock or conduct a PK-trade in the wilderness?

 

 

 

I know what *I* would choose and I am fairly sure I know which one you would choose, as well.

 

You know, I would too. But seeing as how unbalanced trading is being removed as well, that argument goes out the door. If you left wilderness the way it was they would have no choice but to use it to trade.

 

 

 

That sentence is partially correct. Autoers did engage in certain skill because others are too labor/time intensive. But that's because there are better activities to create a profit! Once you remove those activities, necessity will drive them to use the less-efficient forms of money-making.

 

 

 

As for being labor/time intensive, what's all that mean to a never-resting bot?

 

 

 

No, you wouldn't drive them to less-efficient forms of money-making. You'd drive them to a game with more efficient means of money making. You see, fishing, mining and woodcutting (As well as flax picking, although not technically a skill) were the main choices because they required the least amount of monetary investment (All you need is a cheap bronze axe/pickaxe or a net) and the least amount effort (Click once, wait for inventory to fill up, run to bank, run back to tree and repeat) in comparison to the profit to be had making them. All other skills require some type of intermediate good, which is then processed into the final good. And, even then, the profits aren't that good unless you happen to collect every ingredient/material yourself. Since we know that these weren't bots but, as Jagex decided to label them, 'Chinese sweatshop workers', everything. If you were a 'sweatshop owner' why would you waste your time on a game in which the real life profits are lower than the profits to be had elsewhere? You wouldn't.

 

 

 

The same reason why most people in real life are forced to take a less-beneficial job when they get fired from their first.

 

And what makes you think the RWTers aren't already on the other games where they can make a profit? Most of the RWTer sites I've seen have services available for several games.

[justin_m23]

__ <- Threads Point

 

 

 

0 <- Everyone else's head.

 

 

 

Obviously taking out those particular skills would be terrible, since so many people use and love them. Well, without becoming too uncivilized - *durrrrr*.

 

This is the point. A whole part of the RS community used and loved the Pking system, and now it has been destroyed. BH is not a sufficient replacement. All the worst part of Pking is in BH.

[MasterSamus]

RuneScape is better without all those immature people in the Wild.

 

"Foodnoob"

 

"Safe noob"

 

"DEFENCE NOOB" < I mean, wtf?

Woah, that so justifies destroying wildy.

 

 

 

i believe it does

 

 

 

most of you players would critisize me but the whole point (and original meaning) of PK is a fight to the death with no rules. since everyone made such "rules", i only think it's fair that jagex punished them :pray: . but hey, at least everyone can duel now with "rules" :thumbsup: .now since most of you whiny children have "rules", why are you still complaining of the loss of a feature that wasn't meant for the abuse that was given to it by the avid runescape player.

 

 

 

back to the original topic, taking those skills away will just make them tick you off even more when they go for other skills because the moronic rs player population forced jagex to tick them of because the players ruined their jobs. plus, real world trading is good for any MMORPG. just look at WoW. 1 in 20 is a gold miner but i dont see all 9 million player going in turmoil for something that. it actually helps blizzard enticing another million every six months to waste their lives with some outdated 3D graphics from Warcraft 3(no offense to rs).

[Bo4345]

Wouldn't that be just a big middle finger to those who are like level 99 or higher in those skills? That worked months for it

[Rskellington]

Uhhhhhhh while pking did you ever wonder where those sharks or monks you were eating came from? Oh yeah they came from people fishing. Well to tell you the truth, there are people that still do bounty and need food for it. Well i think that would upset a lot of people not directly attatched to the skills. Another point for people that do f2p bounty is, they have to wear armor(or weapon if they are 1 iteming) it came from the magical armor tree right? No it came from people who mined ore and then smelted it, and finally smithed it. Those niffty little things called arrows that so many people use dont just fall from the sky now do they?(well maybe they do in some cases...) They have arrow shafts from wood cutting and heads from smithing which came from mining. Now your defense is obviously going to be that you can buy all of these items and no one does bounty, but do you think that all of the items in the game were bought from stores? A large amount of them came from skillers, and not necessarily form macros.

 

 

 

Do i think it was right to take away pking and duels..... not really but there were things that needed to be done. But taking away skills would be more devistating to the gross of the game, compared to the people who just pked or staked.

[therehadtobe1]

Since 99.99999% of all auto'ers participated in a non-combat skill (Fishing, woodcutting, mining) why couldn't Jagex simply remove those skills and label the innocent players caught in the crossfire as 'collateral damage'? The ends, after all, seem to justify the means (In Jagex's eyes, of course).

 

 

 

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Of course, this idea will more than likely be flamed to hell by those people who frequently fish, woodcut and mine, but I have to ask you why my idea is any less idiotic than ruining staking and PK'ing for those who actively engaged in those activities? If you're one of those people who believe that there must be casualties in Jagex's pursuit of victory, then why does it matter who those casualties are so long as the ultimate goal (No more auto'ers and RWT'ers) is achieved?

 

 

 

yeah i see where your coming from. A lot of people have said that everyone wanted to get rid of RWT and now that thats happened everyones complaining about it and they should shut up, but the thing is yes we wanted to get rid of RWT but we didn't want to get rid of trading, pking and staking