Barrows Armor - Not like Jagex had\should have planned?

[compfreak847]

(Warning, long read. Please don't get into an argument about it without actually reading, or at least skimming over, everything.)

 

 

 

This has always been a pet peeve of mine, so I figured I might as well get other people's opinions on it. Barrows - That incredibly easy, fast, and fairly fun minigamegame. You get plenty of runes, so even if you don't get one of the "rare" items, you should still make a profit. At high levels, you should be able to do around 6 runs per hour, with chances of an item estimated at 1:18. That puts the chances of getting an item at 1 every 3 hours. Not too bad, so long as the armor is appropriately powered. Even a level 80 can do barrows and make money, so obviously it shouldn't be TOO good of armor. Right?

 

 

 

Wrong. Let's look at the stats of the best barrows top and bottom vs. the top and bottom of the two other main "high level" armor (Top and bottom because there is no bandos helm). I'm using Torag's plate and legs in this example because it is the cheapest for the stats. However, Verac's skirt can be bought for around 200k more, offering a +4 prayer bonus. Remember, slash is the most important bonus for PVP, as most high level PVP weapons (Whip, Godsword, Dragon Scimitar) are primarily slash weapons.

 

 

 

Barrows top and bottom stab, slash, and crush defence:

 

 

 

Stab: +207

 

Slash: +202

 

Crush: +190

 

Range: +224

 

Cost: 570K

 

 

 

Wow, very good stats, very, very cheap.

 

 

 

Now lets compare that to Bandos

 

 

 

Bandos Chesplate and Tassets:

 

Stab: +169

 

Slash: +156

 

Crush: +171

 

Cost: 26,000K

 

Bonus: +6 strength, +2 prayer

 

 

 

Stats are not too bad, a tiny (+2) adventage over barrows in range, and with a small strength and prayer bonus, but quite inferior in the other stats. But wait - the cost is... over 45 times as much as barrows?

 

 

 

Moving along, we get to 3rd age. The prices here are what they are trading for on the forums; they are currently impossible to buy on the Grand Exchange

 

Stab: +174

 

Slash: +184

 

Crush: +196

 

Range: +172

 

Price: Very, very hard to buy; usually can only trade other 3rd age for it. Closest price I can pin down too is around 115,000K. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

Himm, stats are slightly better then bandos in melee defence, but significantly worse in range. Both are far below Barrows stats. But wait... the price is around 200 times the cost of barrows.

 

 

 

I won't bother going through a detailed rundown of mage costs, but basically Ahrims is the only real mage armor with decent melee defence, and has the highest magic bonus of any armor in the game. 3rd age has 0, that's right 0, melee defence, and much worse magic offense and defence. In other words, it is worse in every way. And yet it costs something like 80 times what Ahrims does. Range armor is the only place where barrows stumbles; Karils is beat by Armadyl armor. However, it is only by a measly +1 melee defence, +5 magic defence, and +3 range attack for the plate, which costs around 30 times the cost, and is worse then Karils if you plan to do anything with melee due to its negative melee attack bonuses. Let's not even go into 3rd age on this one, as I cant pin a good price on them. It is sufficient to say that Karils armor has better stats for far, far less cash.

 

 

 

Now yes, there are some drawbacks and gotchas. First of all, barrows armor degrades, the main fault that is always pointed out when a discussion like this comes up. Yes, but... for 1 hour of fighting with the top and bottom, the degrade costs are: *drum roll please* 12K per hour! Half that if you have 99 smithing, somewhere in between if you have between 99 and 1 smithing and repair it in a POH. That's right, 12K per hour of steady fighting. Your probably going to spend more then that on food alone due to the increased amount of hits taken with other armor such as bandos. Not to mention if you die once with your 120M armor, it far outstrips the piddling repair costs on your 600k armor.

 

 

 

Of course, there is the whole "honor" thing - 3rd age is sort of like a status symbol, somewhat like a party hat. But should it really be this way? What if barrows armor was the rare stuff, and 3rd age was more common. Let's take a look at how you get each piece of armor.

 

 

 

First, barrows. You fight 6 barrows brothers, ranging from level 98-120, one at a time. They only use one attack, so they can be prayed against. One of them can hit through prayer, but his max hit is 14 with prayer, and he rarely hits (~1-2 times per kill at high levels). All of them are extremely weak to mage, and can be killed with little trouble with cheap spells while wearing melee armor to keep from being hit. There are safespots in the tunnels, a very small and simple maze you have to negotiate, that allow you to kill all of the melee brothers without taking hits. A run takes around 10 minutes, and has a 1/18 chance of giving an item. You will get many runes, which almost always pays for the cost of supplies, and allows you to make a good profit even with no items. High level players can camp for 5-10 runs, and getting there takes only a couple of minutes with a house portal (Level 50 construction). Fairly simple, right?

 

 

 

Next up, Bandos. You fight 1 main boss and 3 minions at the same time. The boss is level 624, and all of the minions are above level 140. The boss can hit up to 60 with his melee attack, which must be prayed against. He frequently uses a range attack, that hits up to 35 and rarely splashes. In the meantime, you are under attack by all of the minions, which can each hit up to 21. If you do manage to kill him, you have a 1/75 chance of reciving an item. You can also get a hilt, which is a very valuable but rare item that can be sold for a lot of money on the Grand Exchange. One kill takes around 20 minutes to set up and kill, and costs around 200k in potions. You rarely get drops that cover that much, but when you do they are worth quite a bit. You usually can only kill him once per trip, sometimes twice. He is only for the best and highest-leveled players. You can also go in a team, but then the drops will be split and you will not receive nearly as much as you would if you killed him by yourself.

 

 

 

And finally, 3rd age. You kill monsters to get clues, which are fairly rare. It usually takes a couple of days to get a clue, unless you are specifically farming them, in which case you may get once every hour or two. They are long and complicated, but offer a good reward. 3rd age is not usually the reason people do clues; it is too rare to matter. You can get other good rewards from clues. 3rd age chances are around 1/10000, so don't be expecting much. They do not take much in the way of supplies to do, and usually give a profit, at the expense of being rare, hard to find, and slow.

 

 

 

Bottom line: Barrows is far, far easier to get then Bandos or 3rd age, and has much better stats then the other two in almost every way. On top of that, it costs many many times less then them. Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't armor with stats like barrows be as rare as 3rd age, and armor with stats like 3rd age be as common as barrows? Bandos can be somewhere between... Some people will argue that 3rd age is a status symbol; in my opinion, barrows should be the ultra rare, ultra expensive "status symbol" that just happens to have the best stats by far of any equipment in the game. I'm not sure what Jagex was thinking when they released barrows; were they planning on something this common and cheap? In my opinion, the barrows minigame should be MUCH longer, MUCH harder, and the chances of an item should be MUCH less. It's probably too late to change it now, but should Jagex have done it that way when they designed the barrows? (Don't get me wrong, I've earned plenty from bandos myself, but I'm not interested in it as an armor. I could buy myself some if I wanted too, but that +6 strength isn't worth the sacrifice in defence and the much larger cost, unless I want to buy some just for the purpose of finding out my max hit. Seriously, +6 strength is going to hit what, 1 higher? I bet you couldn't tell if you were wearing barrows or bandos if you couldn't see, unless you got lucky and hit your 1 higher max with bandos. I guess I'd better clarify about what I was discussing; I'm saying that barrows should be a very, very rare status symbol for only the wealthiest. Barrows, even when it came out was not that hard; now it is downright simplistic. Another clarification, either I'm an idiot or people are just missing my point. I'm asking why Jagex didn't make "3rd age" have the stats of barrows, and vice versa. Would be more logical that the rare, cool looking, expensive armor should be better then the cheap, easy to get barrows armor? Did they make a mistake and make barrows too easy, or is there more reasons behind it?

 

 

 

Sorry for the long read, I know that 95% of you won't bother reading anywhere close to all of this, but just skim through it. I just wanted to type all this for the few people that actually will. =D

[Trollface]

Barrows was released years before Bandos or 3rd age. Also, people are already paying 3m for +4 strength, and Bandos is useful for camping, since it dosen't degrade. And 3rd age is, and forever will be a status symbol. Even if Barrows was suddenly to stop giving items, the prices would remain lower that those of 3rd age. And besides, 3rd age looks cool :D 3rd age is only worth that much because people get so much money they have nothing else to spend it on, either from getting 99 rc or GWD, or several lucky pks.

[Julius Casar]

I see what you mean. Barrows is far stronger than others such as Third Age Melee (which I personally love), but I think their value is more liek that of a party hat - in it's rareness and just how cool it looks. i guess Barrows only downside is its repairing costs.

[cat666]

Barrows is old now. When it was released it was a lot harder.

 

 

 

Anyway it has drawbacks.

 

 

 

1. It degrades

 

2. It's one handed for set effect.

 

3. A lot of it is junk (Ahrims Staff for example)

 

 

 

What you have to remember is Barrows is only for 70+ stats. 80+ stuff will be far better as and when it is released.

[muggiwhplar]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

[compfreak847]

Barrows was released years before Bandos or 3rd age. Also, people are already paying 3m for +4 strength, and Bandos is useful for camping, since it doesn't degrade. And 3rd age is, and forever will be a status symbol. Even if Barrows was suddenly to stop giving items, the prices would remain lower that those of 3rd age. And besides, 3rd age looks cool :D 3rd age is only worth that much because people get so much money they have nothing else to spend it on, either from getting 99 rc or GWD, or several lucky pks.

 

Personally, I like the looks of barrows items over 3rd age. I bet if it was uber-rare, like 3rd age, and 3rd age was as common as barrows, it would be just as good of a status symbol, albeit one with a purpose. As for camping, 16 hours of steady combat is a lot of camping... About the only place where you really would do that is Dust Devils, and they are ~5 minutes away from a bank. You'll waste that much time picking up and eating your peaches. I agree with the +4 of berserker ring, but that does not have an equivalent with much better defence. Its a point; people will pay some for higher hits, but bandos is clearly inferior for most types of combat (Don't even get me started on people that do fight pits\castle wars in bandos, I easily beat them with torags).

[compfreak847]

Barrows is only cheap just because it's been out for years and because like you said it's easy to obtain

 

 

 

Most items in RS are valued by their rarity rather than stats. Competition among other similar items hasn't really interfered much, though robin hats are getting pretty cheap now because of the Arma helm

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

Agreed about the strength bonus, but I guess I'd better clarify about what I was discussing. I'm saying that barrows should be a very, very rare status symbol for only the wealthiest. Barrows, even when it came out was not that hard; now it is downright simplistic.

[highlanders]

It's been bothering me aswell. It's true it doesn't make any sort of sense that bandos, 3rd age, and even dragon, is rarer and more expensive than barrows, while barrows is both the best and cheapest. :ohnoes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for Bandos, besides it being rare, most people in this game are OBSESSED with str bonus... I see tons of high lvls training slayer with a fighter torso rather than a guthan plate and using rune or drag legs instead of a verac skirt... nobody seems to realize that +4 str isn't worth it at all when you're going to be taking MUCH more damage and the time you spend eating rather than hitting makes barrows armor better

 

LOL I agree :lol: Strength bonus is not nearly as important as it's all make up to be.

[Silver_Corner]

Agreed about the strength bonus, but I guess I'd better clarify about what I was discussing. I'm saying that barrows should be a very, very rare status symbol for only the wealthiest. Barrows, even when it came out was not that hard; now it is downright simplistic.

 

 

 

Ok, so now you clarified what you are discussing, the question is now why?

 

 

 

Why should barrows be a rare status symbol vs armor like Bandos (which is much harder to obtain)?

 

 

 

We can see by things like party hats, santas, even easter eggs, ect.. Items are generally priced on how available they are to be purchased. Even items with little stats are very vaulable because they are rare to obtain.

 

 

 

As for armor, like others have said, barrows and 3rd age are so expensive because they are so rare. Also, because they are the best possible armors in the game which dont require a repair cost. Sure repair costs arnt that much, but in the long run they can add up to alot of lost money for a couple bonus points.

 

 

 

I personally use my bandos at DK's because trips are ushally 1-2+ hours on average. If I wore barrows, I would be essentially "losing" 2 super restores (7k each) every run. Doing 10 runs thats a loss of 140k. Yes its not alot, but its 140k less than you had before, not to mention bandos has a strength and prayer bonus which is perfect for hybriding without guthans.

 

 

 

So my question to you is, why do you think barrows should be an "elite" armor, if the sets are not that hard to obtain. Simply saying "I want them to be more valuable" is not a valid answer. Remembering that stats have only a small effect on the cost of an item, give us a reason WHY you think they should be more valuable.

[Star_Fox]

for the str bonus, it's actually useful especially when camping on monsters because every hit you dealt, you'll mostly hit higher without str bonus so it's good to have a lot of it.

 

 

 

barrows degrades and it's the biggest reason why people like myself don't use them in certain situations like slayer because it's annoying having to stop at POHS just to repair your armor, and the appearance is dreadful... :wall: i don't want my character looking like if he just slipped on a pile of mud.

 

 

 

for the status symbols, barrows is clearly for the public while bandos\3rd age is for the wealthy. barrows was released so it can be used to make your life easier! ex" monster hunting. since most scapers are looking for the best stats possible without the risk of losing millions worth of armor, wouldn't barrows be the ideal choice instead of bringing 3rd age into gwd? it's common to see barrows, only because of the sufficient stats and the low cost.

[alphakoldes]

Well, it's been said a couple times, but I'll just say it anyway.

 

 

 

The "best" armors aren't necessarily the best because of their stats. It's just due to supply, demand and rarity of actually gathering the items. It makes sense that 3rd age should be far better than anything else, but I have accepted that it isn't, long time ago.

 

 

 

I don't think Jagex "should change anything" though. It's not as if the game is messed up in any ways. All it means is that acquiring those 3rd age pieces are good for one thing instead of good for another. (Good for status symbol instead of actually being the best gear.)

[InkofDeath]

Barrows is so easy now because it's been analyzed back into the stone age, and beyond. Not to mention how summoning totally killed the fun in it, I've seen many level 130s doing 12 runs in one hour, sometimes more if they are hitting lucky enough. People have done barrows with the chicken, or even flowers, 5 runs in an hour. :lol:

 

 

 

Barrows however has high stats at a cost. You have to constantly pay to repair it. The weapons associated with Barrows armour is two handed, and people dislike that, as most of the weapons aren't good enough, or there's others out there that can do better. And when you use another weapon, Barrows isn't as effective as it should be, it's still nice defense, but your not using it's full potential.

 

 

 

Third age, and GWD's armour has lower stats, but you can use a shield, or increase your strength bonuses, or magic bonuses. Thus why it equals out pretty fine. You can still have uper high defense bonuses without the degrade, but you will pay for it. Or you can pay over time with Barrows.

 

 

 

Personally I'd go for Barrows just because it's not worth paying that 25mill, when Barrows will reach that 25mill in repair costs after I'm done getting 99 in slayer. :roll:

 

 

 

Everything equals out in the melee section, regarding range or magic it's a little bit different.

[War_Junky_91]

Your arguments hold as much water as a bucket without a bottom.

 

 

 

You have to figure the rarity of these items, and not only that, the desire for them. Guthans is ten times the price of Ahrims because people want Guthan's healing ability. And look how long Barrows has been around, the market is absolutely saturated with the armor now.

 

 

 

On the other side look at GWD armor, people are finding it HARD to buy some items at maximum price on the GE. The market is spindly and barely even there, demand way out weighs demand driving the price through the roof. As time passes the amount of items existing will increase and the price will decline, within 2 years i expect GWD armor to be no more than 5 mil. Just ask any older player about the price of whips when they came out ( i can't speak from experience on that subject because i wasn't around back then).

 

 

 

And plus you have to figure the fact that within 2 years there will most likely be even better armor out there, or another armor with around the same stats from another sorce, and that would decrease demand.

[Made0f12une]

Just as you stated, Barrows is easy to get.

 

 

 

It's not priced accordingly to its stats, its priced accordingly to rarity.

 

 

 

Phats arent the most exspensive items in the game because they have uber stats, they're the most exspensive because they're rare.

 

 

 

Welcome to Runescape Economics =P~

[999134]

for the str bonus, it's actually useful especially when camping on monsters because every hit you dealt, you'll mostly hit higher without str bonus so it's good to have a lot of it.

 

 

 

barrows degrades and it's the biggest reason why people like myself don't use them in certain situations like slayer because it's annoying having to stop at POHS just to repair your armor, and the appearance is dreadful... :wall: i don't want my character looking like if he just slipped on a pile of mud.

 

 

 

for the status symbols, barrows is clearly for the public while bandos\3rd age is for the wealthy. barrows was released so it can be used to make your life easier! ex" monster hunting. since most scapers are looking for the best stats possible without the risk of losing millions worth of armor, wouldn't barrows be the ideal choice instead of bringing 3rd age into gwd? it's common to see barrows, only because of the sufficient stats and the low cost.

 

 

 

i like the dh top and and legs >_<

[Aresgodowar]

remember the cost of barrows just like 8 or 9 months ago?

 

 

 

I don't have much experience with sets other than verac's, so i'll explain the best way i know. Basically they are 3.3m now. before GE i merchanted them buying ag 4.8-9 and selling 5.1-2. this was made quite simple by buying during high volume times for the americas and selling during their low volume time. I know this isn't a huge drop in price, but it explains the principle. In the case of veracs the price was dammaged due to the loss of splitting d chain prices. So suddenly there is a huge jump in supply and the price goes down. the prices for gwd items and t trail items will drop alot slower because they have 1 a huge demand and 2 a huge "rarity" factor.

 

 

 

if that doesn't make sense(i am a little batty) then think of this: Which has better defense?, Gilded or rune?

[xlippsx]

Here are the prices on 3rd age melee just fyi:

 

Helm 130-150mil

 

Plate 250-300mil

 

Legs 200-275mil

 

Kite 60-70mil

[compfreak847]

Your arguments hold as much water as a bucket without a bottom.

 

 

 

You have to figure the rarity of these items, and not only that, the desire for them. Guthans is ten times the price of Ahrims because people want Guthan's healing ability. And look how long Barrows has been around, the market is absolutely saturated with the armor now.

 

 

 

On the other side look at GWD armor, people are finding it HARD to buy some items at maximum price on the GE. The market is spindly and barely even there, demand way out weighs demand driving the price through the roof. As time passes the amount of items existing will increase and the price will decline, within 2 years i expect GWD armor to be no more than 5 mil. Just ask any older player about the price of whips when they came out ( i can't speak from experience on that subject because i wasn't around back then).

 

 

 

And plus you have to figure the fact that within 2 years there will most likely be even better armor out there, or another armor with around the same stats from another sorce, and that would decrease demand.

 

I like the bucket anaology. Other then that, though....

 

 

 

Ok, what does Guthans have to do with ahrims? Ahrims is maging armor, Guthans is melee armor. Most maging armor is cheaper then most meleeeing armor, as more people melee then mage, and Guthans has a good set effect whereas Ahrims doesn't. Anyway, your missing the point of my argument, I guess it's time for another clarification. I'm asking why Jagex didn't make "3rd age" have the stats of barrows, and vice versa. Would be more logical that the rare, cool looking, expensive armor should be better then the cheap, easy to get barrows armor? Did they make a mistake, or is there more reasons behind it?

[compfreak847]

What? Messed up somehow while posting...

[psvstef]

barrow armour was there first ,then they released 3rd age,if they need to make armour better then barrows,because its expensiver,the armour would be to good.

[Beaumonde]

I agree that it was bad planning on the side of Jagex to make Barrows so easy. They could, in theory, reduce the drop rate, increase the difficulty and then find a way to make some of the barrows armour in the game disappear. Maybe all the barrows armour sold on the exchange disappears (While still playing the seller of course) that way there are less sets and are harder to get.

[compfreak847]

barrow armour was there first ,then they released 3rd age,if they need to make armour better then barrows,because its expensiver,the armour would be to good.

 

Himm, good point. It brings up another discussion; does Jagex think that they made barrows armor too powerful and common, and do they think releasing an armor that was even stronger in every way would unbalance the game?

[compfreak847]

I agree that it was bad planning on the side of Jagex to make Barrows so easy. They could, in theory, reduce the drop rate, increase the difficulty and then find a way to make some of the barrows armour in the game disappear. Maybe all the barrows armour sold on the exchange disappears (While still playing the seller of course) that way there are less sets and are harder to get.

 

I've thought of that a lot, but I figured merely suggesting it would result in an instant flame war. Still, I like it. Nerfing the drop rate, secretly taking sets out of the game. Easy with the grand exchange; they could let just enough buyers get it to keep them happy, and make it so the price rose by the max every day. Of course, it would introduce a lot of GP into the game, as there are a lot of barrows sets, but it would be worth it. The sad truth is that I'd rather pay 50m+ for barrows armor then 500k; that way I actually get an advantage from earning the money, whereas with bandos, its mostly looks and very slight use. Now I'll sit back and watch all the doomsayers and Jagex haters flame me and point out the many ways that it would cause the economy to crash and burn. Still, I think its a reasonable idea, although Jagex would have to be very careful. Considering I don't really examine the Runescape economy in detail, if, say, Duke Freedom posts telling me exactly how and why it would destroy the economy, then my opinion would be with him. Too bad he had to quit.

[pikachu54673]

Wow, now that I look at the stats, barrows look like a ridiculously good deal. You made some very good points. I agree that barrows is overpowered, but I think it's just too late to do anything about it. But, releasing something stronger than barrows wouldn't upset the game too much. It would just have to be extremely rare or hard to get.

 

 

 

Great Topic =]

[Beaumonde]

I've thought of that a lot, but I figured merely suggesting it would result in an instant flame war. Still, I like it. Nerfing the drop rate, secretly taking sets out of the game. Easy with the grand exchange; they could let just enough buyers get it to keep them happy, and make it so the price rose by the max every day. Of course, it would introduce a lot of GP into the game, as there are a lot of barrows sets, but it would be worth it. The sad truth is that I'd rather pay 50m+ for barrows armor then 500k; that way I actually get an advantage from earning the money, whereas with bandos, its mostly looks and very slight use. Now I'll sit back and watch all the doomsayers and Jagex haters flame me and point out the many ways that it would cause the economy to crash and burn. Still, I think its a reasonable idea, although Jagex would have to be very careful. Considering I don't really examine the Runescape economy in detail, if, say, Duke Freedom posts telling me exactly how and why it would destroy the economy, then my opinion would be with him. Too bad he had to quit.

 

 

 

There still wouldn't be as much money in the game as before summoning, if they introduce another money drain skill all the money would be back down the toilet.