IN OTHER NEWS:

 

Have scheduled a date with the girl I met on Tinder.

 

Success?

 

 

Secondly, the kind of girls James Deen is having sex with in his movies aren't exactly "average" girls off the street, given over two-thirds of the US population is overweight or obese. Even if you argue for James Deen from a pseudo-feminist perspective, what you're actually saying is this: "Only if you look as extremely attractive as these models do would you possibly hope to have sex with a man like James Deen." If one was to be far more cynical, the very attractive females could be shown as evidence that, in reality, the porn is actually being marketed towards men (fancy that!). As a heterosexual male, I can't remember the last time I looked at a porno and thought, "Gosh, that bloke is very good looking!" and I can't imagine women do it for their own sex either. If James Deen was having sex with average-looking girls, I might be more tempted to believe it's being scripted for average-looking women, but then that wouldn't sell for obvious reasons.

 

So yes, more women probably will watch more porn, but it's hardly because the industry is becoming more female friendly. It's because society in general is becoming more sexualised.

 

I think you're overlooking how many girls find other girls attractive. It's not even a matter of bisexauality/bicuriousity, if polled the general human population (at least that which would be looking at porn) would overwhelmingly say that females are more attractive than males sexually. Having an attractive female in porn is just as much for the female viewers as it is the male viewers.

 

That being said, I'm a fairly stright male and I recognize a good lookin' fella when I see one.

 

I have all kinds of data on career length of porn stars somewhere on one of my old hard drives. IIRC female porn stars are generally 18-23 and make all of like 3 videos in their career on average. Male porn stars are closer to 30, and have several dozen of videos in their career. So if you want to argue sexism in the porn industry, its lying somewhere in these data points, not the attractiveness of the actors/actresses

Those stats are very interesting, as they seem to correlate with fertility and sexual attractiveness lol.

 

Women are in their prime in their late teens/early twenties, whereas men are in their prime in their 30s. From an evolutionary standpoint, women mothered less children and men fathered more children.

We could do this argument to death, and I think we've both made our main points, so in the interests of brevity I'll keep this reply to the bit I found most pertinent.

Society is full of sexual IMAGERY, but in case you haven't noticed, despite all of the sexual imagery, the act of sex itself is still loaded with all kinds of taboo and irrational irrelevant associations in modern society. Sex is heavily marketed towards everyone, while at the same time, people are shamed for pursuing sex. THAT'S the problem. There's nothing wrong with two consenting adults having sex, and it's really not that big of a deal. But society (and you) seem to argue that sex is only acceptable within very limited, controlled conditions.

 

When people finally start to realize that sex is:

a) not a big deal

b) natural

c) healthy

 

All of these crazy arguments about the implications of sex, porn, etc. will magically begin to disappear. But considering that many people don't know how to get laid, I imagine that these irrational stigmas are going to be perpetuated by sexually-frustrated/sexually-inexperienced people like that for a very long time... unless prostitution is legalized, but that's another topic. :P

Firstly, the starting paragraph is a strawman. I agree, there's nothing wrong with two people having consenting sex with whoever they want. There's nothing wrong with men initiating flirty conversations. Neither society in general, nor feminism, argue that sex is always something precious and gentle for the woman. As said, I have a lot of close female friends for a guy my age, and I know full well that many of them are just as horny as their male counterparts, and will quite happily have sex with someone they've only just met who they happen to find good-looking. Sex isn't always some drawn-out romantic thing, we get that.

 

Additionally, you've argued in the past that marriage is an example of how society looks down on polyamorous relationships. Surely, this too is a strawman: if polyamory were genuinely looked down on that much, it would be a crime, not a legal grounds for divorce which may, or may not necessarily, be pursued by the individual who has been "cheated" on. Society, if anything, says "well, we'd like you to be in monogamous relationships because it's actually quite useful for bringing up children in, so here's this thing called marriage and here's some tax benefits for those who choose it. But we won't force you otherwise, if it's not for you... whatever, good luck, but don't expect us to endorse it as much because, actually, that arrangement doesn't benefit us any more." Personally, I don't actually agree with that statement, due to wider issues concerning things like social class and inequalities for homosexual couples, but that's what society actually says about marriage. Society doesn't say "polyamory is always evil".

 

Furthermore, I think you do most men an insult in stating that, because they're inexperienced, they can't tell the contextual difference between normal sex and abnormal sex. Most men know when sexual advances are either a) inappropriate; or b) likely to make the recipient feel deeply uncomfortable. Although, I'll concede, there are quite a few who don't.

 

When we talk about the damaging effects of porn, we're talking about two things which are relevant. Some videos promote sexual harassment in inappropriate contexts such as work. "Reality" videos where the interviewer finds the applicant attractive, makes some lewd comments and things go from there. "Reality" videos where school teachers 'seduce' pupils into sexual acts. For sure, most consumers are able to look at that and see those videos are anything except reality, but nevertheless it partly contributes to creating an attitude that harassment is acceptable, which it never is. Ever. Under any context.

 

Secondly, we're talking about the objectification of women as nothing more than objects to stick a [bleep] into. Porn isn't the lone culprit in causing this, but I would argue that sexual imagery, far from being normal, has actually been normalised because it is so prevalent in society. Sure, men are objectified too (like James Deen, for example), but as I've said previously, nowhere near the extent that women are. I once knew a guy who had ED, and when he went for treatment, the thing that eventually worked was counseling because they worked out he'd basically watched so much graphic pornography that he didn't find the real thing interesting no more.

 

So to conclude, and I genuinely hope you find this statement more agreeable: If you're a man, you know the difference between harassment and flirting, you know when to accept that a women has politely rejected your advances, you know that women can feel threatened by unwanted sexual advances, you know that sexual imagery is heavily doctored and provides unrealistic expectations about what women actually look like naked, and you know that some pornography, including some scenes James Deen has filmed, aren't like real life, then by all means, please make sexual advances. Use your sexual liberty to the max and enjoy the fact you live in a society which allows you to [bleep] as many people as you want and whoever you want, so long as they agree to it and can provide consent in the first place.

 

But if you fit into that category, and I strongly suspect you do, then also recognize that there are some twats out there who don't "get it" like you do, and don't be afraid to call them out on it.

I don't think I've ever argued that marriage is an example of how poly relationships are frowned upon. I might've argued that poly relationships are looked down upon as a whole, but I don't recall using marriage as an example to support that. I don't think the two are directly related in that way.

 

Furthermore, I think you do most men an insult in stating that, because they're inexperienced, they can't tell the contextual difference between normal sex and abnormal sex. Most men know when sexual advances are either a) inappropriate; or b) likely to make the recipient feel deeply uncomfortable. Although, I'll concede, there are quite a few who don't.

 

IDK about that. I think the average guy is so risk-averse that he would rather avoid women completely than risk coming off as creepy in an attempt to pick her up. Men fear being labeled as creepy as much as women fear being labeled as a slut. Both fears are irrational, but they exist on a very large scale nonetheless, and cause a lot of mutual unhappiness and frustration.

 

When we talk about the damaging effects of porn, we're talking about two things which are relevant. Some videos promote sexual harassment in inappropriate contexts such as work. "Reality" videos where the interviewer finds the applicant attractive, makes some lewd comments and things go from there. "Reality" videos where school teachers 'seduce' pupils into sexual acts. For sure, most consumers are able to look at that and see those videos are anything except reality, but nevertheless it partly contributes to creating an attitude that harassment is acceptable, which it never is. Ever. Under any context.

 

I'm not really sure what your point is here. Are you trying to suggest that porn should be abolished or modified because a very small minority try to use porn as an excuse for sexual harassment?

 

Secondly, we're talking about the objectification of women as nothing more than objects to stick a [bleep] into. Porn isn't the lone culprit in causing this, but I would argue that sexual imagery, far from being normal, has actually been normalised because it is so prevalent in society. Sure, men are objectified too (like James Deen, for example), but as I've said previously, nowhere near the extent that women are. I once knew a guy who had ED, and when he went for treatment, the thing that eventually worked was counseling because they worked out he'd basically watched so much graphic pornography that he didn't find the real thing interesting no more.

 

Obfuscator could probably do a better job arguing the "objectification of women" thing than I could but IDK where he is right now :P Like GWW says, if you're going to argue that porn "objectifies" people then I think you either don't understand how human sexuality works or you're refusing to accept how it works because it makes you uncomfortable. Men and women always have, and always will objectify the people they are attracted to. The urge to objectify is universal, regardless of gender and regardless of sexual orientation. And so long as it's fairly and respectfully indulged, it's not offensive, not a problem, and not news. And considering pornography involves two consenting adults, I don't think you have a very strong point here.

 

If you're suggesting that porn can have negative effects on people (like the person with ED that you described) then I'd probably agree with you. However those are case study exceptions to the rule. Once again, I'm not exactly sure what your conclusions are here. Are you trying to suggest that porn should be banned or heavily modified as a result of some outliers being negatively influenced by it and using it as an excuse to misbehave?

 

So to conclude, and I genuinely hope you find this statement more agreeable: If you're a man, you know the difference between harassment and flirting, you know when to accept that a women has politely rejected your advances, you know that women can feel threatened by unwanted sexual advances, you know that sexual imagery is heavily doctored and provides unrealistic expectations about what women actually look like naked, and you know that some pornography, including some scenes James Deen has filmed, aren't like real life, then by all means, please make sexual advances. Use your sexual liberty to the max and enjoy the fact you live in a society which allows you to [bleep] as many people as you want and whoever you want, so long as they agree to it and can provide consent in the first place.

But if you fit into that category, and I strongly suspect you do, then also recognize that there are some twats out there who don't "get it" like you do, and don't be afraid to call them out on it.

 

I more or less agree but I'm not really in the mood to nitpick :P

I'm here, just too lazy to respond...I'd have said approximately the same thing anyway.

IDK about that. I think the average guy is so risk-averse that he would rather avoid women completely than risk coming off as creepy in an attempt to pick her up. Men fear being labeled as creepy as much as women fear being labeled as a slut. Both fears are irrational, but they exist on a very large scale nonetheless, and cause a lot of mutual unhappiness and frustration.

 

[...]

 

I'm not really sure what your point is here. Are you trying to suggest that porn should be abolished or modified because a very small minority try to use porn as an excuse for sexual harassment?

There's definitely a point we can agree on in the first paragraph here. None of us want a return to Victorian-era attitudes and reticence towards sexual relationships, but some of those values have passed down the generations because they haven't been openly challenged. When you know the signs and you accept there's nothing wrong with simply making it known you find someone else sexually attractive, so long as you're not in an inappropriate setting like work, it all becomes very obvious.

 

I think on the one hand, Western society does a fantastic job, relatively speaking, at educating young people to recognize when 'No' means 'No'. The majority of men are not misogynistic, would probably sympathize with most women who've been victims of rape or sexual assault / harassment, and wouldn't ever deliberately want to make a woman feel uncomfortable around them. On the other hand, Western society doesn't do a great job of saying, "Look, harassment is wrong, but it's still perfectly acceptable to say this, this and that so long as what you're saying is well received by the other person, and you know to stop when it isn't." The end result is a lot of men playing safe, confusing the really threatening behaviour with innocuous flirting, and not saying anything at all, which definitely makes women feel safer but doesn't really make anyone happier; and on the other extreme, a few men who don't know how to express that desire and so therefore do so with violence and harassment.

 

We both agree, more or less, on that point.

 

On the second paragraph, of course not. That's a little bit of a strawman, to be honest. I don't think anyone's sincerely tried to launch a well-substantiated argument to say rapists / harassers use porn as an excuse for their behaviour, or that it is an excuse in the first place. What people argue, and I agree with them here, is that porn, as well as other things, often portrays women as lacking the autonomous ability to set sexual limits to a man making sexual approaches towards them (while I'm here: for a non-pornographic example, have you read the lyrics to Blurred Lines?), or sometimes gives the impression that men have an entitlement to have sex with any girl they want so long as they make the right moves or use the right lines. In this context, persistence is transformed into harassment, consent is transformed into submission (and not the BDSM kind). How many porn videos are there where the plot is basically the woman not initially wanting to have sex with a guy, but after much groping eventually gives in, and at the finale ends up having the most incredibly intense orgasm she's ever had? When you think that, in reality, there are guys in their early teens watching it freely on the Internet, it's a ridiculous and confusing message to be sending out there.

 

What I'd personally suggest is to teach young girls in sex ed that it's fine to say "yes" to someone you want to have sex with, and that sex is even something you can enjoy (shock!) but more importantly, spend much more time teaching young boys when consent is actually consent and not something warped due to coercion or peer pressure, like you saw in that video you watched when you got back from school in the fifteen minutes you had before your parents got in from work.

Your suggestions sound fine on paper but I don't think they're very effective in reality. It's a very grey, complicated issue with many variables and no real solution. There's not much to be done about an issue like this until society learns to quit being so uptight and irrationally delusional about sex. But I don't see that happening any time soon. The taboo of sex combined with the unrealistic portrayals of dating/sex that people get from constantly watching things like porn and romantic comedies means that most people are going to lack the basic reasoning skills necessary to resolve an issue like this.

 

I imagine legalizing prostitution would probably be the most practical and beneficial solution at the moment. Less sexually-frustrated men is always a good thing.

 

But considering that rape stats are on the decline and are at record lows (1, 2, 3), I don't think this issue is quite as bad as everyone thinks it is.

Both men and women should learn about consent, not just men. It's a two way street.

Jesus christ how am I supposed to keep up with my philosophy work when you people post novels haha

I'M A BANANA

Jesus christ how am I supposed to keep up with my philosophy work when you people post novels haha

No worries, soon all of my posts will be available in audiobook format so you can listen to me while you study. You can choose to listen to narrations by Morgan Freeman or Gilbert Gottfried, depending on how full of shit you think I am :D

I'll take two copies of the Morgan freeman voice-over.

 

So I thought I might look at getting back into the dating world, since it's been a year since me and my ex split. Lots of shit happened, lots of good stuff happened. And then I remembered "Oh that's right, gay communities when it comes to dating is just sex sex polygamy lady-gaga sex insult-anyone-without-fashion-sense"

 

...God damnit. >.>

It's been a year already? Shit that was fast

 

Jesus christ how am I supposed to keep up with my philosophy work when you people post novels haha

No worries, soon all of my posts will be available in audiobook format so you can listen to me while you study. You can choose to listen to narrations by Morgan Freeman or Gilbert Gottfried, depending on how full of shit you think I am :D

 

 

YES@@@!!!

Both men and women should learn about consent, not just men. It's a two way street.

That's too general and it's kind of stating the obvious, lol. I'm not really sure what you had in mind specifically when you wrote it.

 

Both men and women should learn about consent, not just men. It's a two way street.

That's too general and it's kind of stating the obvious, lol. I'm not really sure what you had in mind specifically when you wrote it.

 

 

I've heard a lot of feminists claiming that the solution is to teach young men that "no means no" and similar things along those lines, without acknowledging women's role in this. In other words, the men are the ones expected to change while the women just sit there and blame men for the problem.

 

I don't want to put words in obfuscator's mouth but I imagine he was suggesting that resolving an issue like this requires change, effort, and contributions from both genders; not just men. But like I said, I think a lot of people expect men to be the ones responsible for change. Which is kind of ironic since this specific issue in this context isn't really men's problem; it's women's.

I'm intrigued; what exactly is a woman's role in preventing harassment against herself, except for reporting such incidents to the relevant authorities?

Quoting you:

 

"What I'd personally suggest is to teach young girls in sex ed that it's fine to say "yes" to someone you want to have sex with, and that sex is even something you can enjoy (shock!)"

I was talking about removing the stigma associated with being 'slutty' when in reality all a woman is doing is having consensual sex.

 

That's a totally separate issue to guys sexually harassing girls. Unless you're suggesting 'slutty' girls deserve to be harassed (please, for the love of god, don't tell me you honestly believe that).

 

Both men and women should learn about consent, not just men. It's a two way street.

That's too general and it's kind of stating the obvious, lol. I'm not really sure what you had in mind specifically when you wrote it.

 

It seemed to me that your post assumed only men need to learn about consent, and that only women are sexually assaulted, and only by men.

 

but more importantly, spend much more time teaching young boys when consent is actually consent

people need to learn about consent and respecting boundaries, not just men.

Of course. That stands to reason. The overwhelming majority of sexual assault incidents happen one way, though.

Of course. That stands to reason. The overwhelming majority of sexual assault incidents happen one way, though.

reported sexual assault incidents

I came across this Ted Talk and was reminded of muggi...

That's a totally separate issue to guys sexually harassing girls. Unless you're suggesting 'slutty' girls deserve to be harassed (please, for the love of god, don't tell me you honestly believe that).

 

We've already had this discussion. You know where I stand on this.

 

I came across this Ted Talk and was reminded of muggi...

 

That was a fun read. Now we just need to check back on her 10 years into the marriage and see what's changed :P If she's still experiencing marital bliss then perhaps she's found the key to a successful long-term monogamous relationship.

12 hours til date with hot gamer mma girl. She texts me a moment ago that she has dormant genital herpes. Wat. Still going. Yolo. (Wish me luck?)