"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[RpgGamer]

Oh, I realized I haven't filled you guys in on anything since I asked her out. These last 4 months have just been amazing. Even though we can only talk through texts or Facebook I feel like we trust and are closer to each other than most couples who are able to see each other every day. Unfortunately she isn't able to come over for graduation and because of that I told her that I loved her over the phone rather than in person and she was really happy about that. We've already established that our relationship was much more than a fling and that we both do intend to make it work all the way through marriage (she believes that not knowing how far the other person is planning on taking the relationship can kill it). Really, our only bump in the road so far has been her dad who has forbidden us from talking since April. That's obviously not working for him...

 

inb4 muggi goes bananas

[Vezon Dash]

Oh, I realized I haven't filled you guys in on anything since I asked her out. These last 4 months have just been amazing. Even though we can only talk through texts or Facebook I feel like we trust and are closer to each other than most couples who are able to see each other every day. Unfortunately she isn't able to come over for graduation and because of that I told her that I loved her over the phone rather than in person and she was really happy about that. We've already established that our relationship was much more than a fling and that we both do intend to make it work all the way through marriage (she believes that not knowing how far the other person is planning on taking the relationship can kill it). Really, our only bump in the road so far has been her dad who has forbidden us from talking since April. That's obviously not working for him...

 

inb4 muggi goes bananas

 

 

I read that line and did a little facepalm myself. Marriage *technically* is the goal here, but don't try to force something that isn't going to work in the end. I'm not saying that it won't work, but just look at the statistics for yourself.

[Duff]

In my first serious relationship we talked about marriage a lot. Big mistake. :s

[RpgGamer]

i did too, though I wouldn't call it a mistake really...

 

Just made one more thing to be upset about post-breakup really.

[TTanT]

^Basically that.

 

Although in my first long term relationship we made the mistake of becoming WAY too interdependant and thus completely dysfunctional.

Remember kids, don't let yourself think of your girlfriend as your only real friend. I did that and I'm still repairing my social life.

[Randox]

Just a note that I decided to remove a couple posts (and the quotes of the posts), from this thread. Especially given the nature of this thread, the sarcastic questions/advice really aren't going to fly here. I don't mind humor on this thread (in fact, I think we could all use more of that), and good natured joking around is fine, but the trollish advice and passive agressive comments aren't going to cut it. If I have to remove more of their like, you'll be finding out about it via pm instead.

 

And now, back to the show!

 

Required reading for the girls dad hates you issue from the good people at cracked: http://www.cracked.com/article_18893_6-scientific-reasons-your-girlfriends-father-hates-you.html

 

Sounds like issue #4 Riku, and maybe #3 thinking back to previous discussion. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can really do about it except hope that he gets over it.

 

For the whole marriage thing, I wouldn't take issue with hoping for marriage, only with actually planning for it. There are a lot of issues that can come up once your a couple and living your lives together, and you probably want to figure out where you both stand on as many of those as possible, which is why normally when we meet people, we don't go from 'just met' to 'engaged' in 2 weeks. You need to get to know each other. You also want to be old enough to have an inkling of what issues might come up, and maybe even listen to your parents because they have first hand experience, and probably better insight than anyone else what issues are going to come up for you. For my parents, this opinion is forthcoming on its own, which is both a blessing (not needing to ask) and a curse (not waiting until I ask).

[Tim]

i did too, though I wouldn't call it a mistake really...

 

Just made one more thing to be upset about post-breakup really.

Sad thing is, one girl I dated I jokingly said we'd get married and have kids running about, and somehow she thought I was 100% serious. :mellow:

[muggiwhplar]

Oh, I realized I haven't filled you guys in on anything since I asked her out. These last 4 months have just been amazing. Even though we can only talk through texts or Facebook I feel like we trust and are closer to each other than most couples who are able to see each other every day. Unfortunately she isn't able to come over for graduation and because of that I told her that I loved her over the phone rather than in person and she was really happy about that. We've already established that our relationship was much more than a fling and that we both do intend to make it work all the way through marriage (she believes that not knowing how far the other person is planning on taking the relationship can kill it). Really, our only bump in the road so far has been her dad who has forbidden us from talking since April. That's obviously not working for him...

 

inb4 muggi goes bananas

 

 

I read that line and did a little facepalm myself. Marriage *technically* is the goal here, but don't try to force something that isn't going to work in the end. I'm not saying that it won't work, but just look at the statistics for yourself.

 

Lol-- statistically speaking, Riku is the LEAST likely to consider my input at this point in his relationship so I don't even bother :P

 

Likelihood of people to join the dark side:

people that are bored/unhappy with their current relationship > single people (happy) > single people (unhappy) > people in long-term relationships (happy) >>>>>> people in the euphoric, irrational, early stages of a relationship

 

Considering most people that visit this thread are either unhappily single or happily in a relationship, most of my posts fall upon deaf ears lol

 

 

And for the record, I don't have anything against marriage; just long-term monogamy. as long as you've got a solid pre-nup and both parties are allowed to discretely see other people on the side, marriage is ok. but as we all know, nobody does that :P

[Assume Nothing]

Here's the fundamental disagreement: we may not value sex > love. If you do, then great! - but how many women do you know are willing to actually join your decision in going with polyamory, and what are you going to do when the drama is exponentially increased?

[muggiwhplar]

Here's the fundamental disagreement: we may not value sex > love. If you do, then great! - but how many women do you know are willing to actually join your decision in going with polyamory, and what are you going to do when the drama is exponentially increased?

 

Drama doesn't exist in polyamorous relationships (at least, it's practically non-existant when compared to monogamy). That only exists within the realm of monogamy. I value sex and love equally.

[Assume Nothing]

I'm sure it does exist in polyamorous relationships... but since we're here to argue: how come?

[Giordano]

Drama exists everywhere.

[muggiwhplar]

I'm sure it does exist in polyamorous relationships... but since we're here to argue: how come?

 

It's very simple. Note that this principle can apply to basically any other area of your life in order to maintain happiness...

 

If something in your life is making you unhappy, you can either try to change it, try to adapt to it, or try to avoid it.

 

When it comes to relationships, you can't really change another person. And if you try changing yourself, that's usually a bad idea as well. So the answer is simple... when someone is giving me drama and it's getting on my nerves, I simply say, "Would you like me to take you home?"/"Would you like me to leave?" If the answer is yes, then I do. And the drama magically disappears :P About a week later we hang out again as if nothing ever happened. In the mean time, we're both free to hang out with other people.

 

You've gotta have a personal "code" to follow, or a set of standards. I know everybody has something that they cherish-- but the important thing is to always guard it well. Within the context of relationships and friendships, I cherish my freedom and happiness above all else, and monogamy would be a direct violation of this. This is why I'd rather live alone than live with someone else, even if it's one of my best friends whom I'm spending most of my time with.

 

I make it very clear to people in relationships with me that, "This is who I am; this is what I stand for; I would love to get to know you better and do stuff with you, but if you don't agree with what I stand for or feel that we're incompatible, then you're free to go be with someone else at any time and I'll understand"

 

The funny thing is, many girls have told me that they think I'm attractive because of that attitude... so that's reassuring :P

 

A lot of the time relationships become stagnant because of things like tolerance and compromise. [bleep] that-- people should be free to be their truest self, without having to change their own standards to meet someone else's. I believe a healthy relationship should compose of two individuals, crossing paths when they can mutually benefit from fulfilling each other's needs, as opposed to forcing the other to cross paths with you when you need something that they don't.

 

Drama exists everywhere.

 

Not in my life :P

[Assume Nothing]

It sounds like an interesting lifestyle, but the non-commitment thing seems to make it rather... unrewarding to me. It seems that you'd only make your penis happy, rather than being happy as a person - but I can't really tell since I've never been in polyamorous relationships before. I'd say it's definitely not suited for everyone.

[muggiwhplar]

It sounds like an interesting lifestyle, but the non-commitment thing seems to make it rather... unrewarding to me. It seems that you'd only make your penis happy, rather than being happy as a person - but I can't really tell since I've never been in polyamorous relationships before. I'd say it's definitely not suited for everyone.

 

That would be the case if all of my relationships with girls were strictly "friends with benefits." But it's not like that. I care very deeply for all of my friends. There's much more to it than sex.

 

Think about your social circle. Assuming you have more than one close friend, surely you understand that affection isn't a limited commodity? Or that having more than one close friend doesn't mean that you have to sacrifice liking one friend less? Do people with one parent love their mom/dad more than people with two parents? I don't think so.

[Randox]

Just something I would like to jump in with.

 

I place a huge value on compromise myself, because I think if the whole world operated on 'my way or not at all' it would be a very miserable place. As it applies to social relationships, I can't wrap my head around the part where the second there is a disagreement, you either part ways or bully the other person by forcing them to always be the one compromising.

 

when someone is giving me drama and it's getting on my nerves, I simply say, "Would you like me to take you home?"/"Would you like me to leave?" If the answer is yes, then I do. And the drama magically disappears

 

To me, that is emotional blackmail. Your forcing them to decide between you and the point of contention. The whole "my way or not at all" approach that I can't stand. (and I do see the irony in my own uncompromising stance on this issue. It was not lost on me :lol:)

[Giordano]

 

 

Drama exists everywhere.

 

Not in my life :P

You misunderstand me. Your polygamist lifestyle works for you as it would work for others, but you're using your own experiences as absolute fact that every polygamist person would have a drama-free, stress-free life.

 

But you must know, people (not specifically you or I, but generally) will find an excuse to add drama and [bleep] up their own lives. I think that is what most of us are against your polygamist lifestyle: too many people would [bleep] it completely up just like they [bleep] up monogamist relationships.

 

 

So continue explaining your polygamist lifestyle to those interested, but don't state is as a universal foolproof philosophy. It has it's problems because of drama and while you may not have it, you surely know people will add it to their polygamist relationship and [bleep] over them and others up. This also goes to stating monogamist relationships being absolutely good because if they weren't, such a thread as this would never of existed.

 

 

Drama is everywhere because people will always put it there. Its not everywhere in the everybody-everything way, but in the "every concept can be [bleep]ed up by drama" - which yours has a lot where it can go wrong.

[muggiwhplar]

Just something I would like to jump in with.

 

I place a huge value on compromise myself, because I think if the whole world operated on 'my way or not at all' it would be a very miserable place. As it applies to social relationships, I can't wrap my head around the part where the second there is a disagreement, you either part ways or bully the other person by forcing them to always be the one compromising.

 

when someone is giving me drama and it's getting on my nerves, I simply say, "Would you like me to take you home?"/"Would you like me to leave?" If the answer is yes, then I do. And the drama magically disappears

 

To me, that is emotional blackmail. Your forcing them to decide between you and the point of contention. The whole "my way or not at all" approach that I can't stand. (and I do see the irony in my own uncompromising stance on this issue. It was not lost on me :lol:)

 

I was waiting for someone to bring that up :P

 

First off-- I'm not saying that if there's any sort of disagreement, I head for the hills. However, if someone starts acting irrational and angry when expressing disagreement, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who can't discuss things calmly like an adult. As a rule of thumb, when there's any sort of disagreement going on, I pretend a mutual friend or neutral 3rd party is present, and try to imagine how that person would view the situation. Does one person have the right to be upset or not? Are they making mountains out of molehills?

 

My personal code of standards states that I will never, under any conditions, become monogamous with a girl because I know very well that I would be sacrificing my freedom in doing so, and therefore also sacrificing long-term happiness in the process.

 

Thus, when a girl wants me to get monogamous, I would be directly violating my own beliefs by obliging. That wouldn't be "compromise"-- that'd be me caving into her, without her changing at all. Therefore, she has two options: leave (which is sad for me too, mind you); or get used to it (that sounds harsh, but I really can't think of a nicer way to put it lol). The reason why I do this is because it allows me to be in control of my happiness, not her. Similarly, she is also in control of her own happiness too. She can act like an adult and make a well-thought-out decision over a few days and ask herself if it's worth staying with me or not. I'm not forcing anything upon her. The choice is hers.

 

This is different from if I were in a monogamous relationship, where there would be rules imposed on each other, and both people are expected to follow those rules-- rules such as "you're not allowed to see other guys now because I said so!" And what would happen if the girl chose to see other guys? The guy would be unhappy. And by setting such a rule, the guy's happiness is therefore dependent upon her actions, which he cannot control.

 

Here's some examples to hopefully make my thoughts more clear:

In a POLY disagreement, where a girl has a code of standards that states she must be exclusive with a guy:

Girl: I want to be exclusive.

Guy: Sorry, I can't do that. If you can't do that either, then I understand and I wish you the best.

*Girl leaves*

Both guy and girl are happy because they didn't violate their code of standards.

 

In a POLY disagreement, where a girl does not have a code of standards regarding this issue:

Girl: I want to be exclusive.

Guy: Sorry, I can't do that. If you can't do that either, then I understand and I wish you the best.

*Girl stays*

Both guy and girl are happy because they didn't violate their code of standards.

 

In a POLY disagreement, where a girl has a code of standards that states she must be exclusive with a guy:

Girl: I want to be exclusive.

Guy: Sorry, I can't do that. If you can't do that either, then I understand and I wish you the best.

*Girl stays*

Girl is unhappy in the relationship because she violated her code of standards. This is her fault, not his.

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

Drama exists everywhere.

 

Not in my life :P

You misunderstand me. Your polygamist lifestyle works for you as it would work for others, but you're using your own experiences as absolute fact that every polygamist person would have a drama-free, stress-free life.

 

But you must know, people (not specifically you or I, but generally) will find an excuse to add drama and [bleep] up their own lives. I think that is what most of us are against your polygamist lifestyle: too many people would [bleep] it completely up just like they [bleep] up monogamist relationships.

 

 

So continue explaining your polygamist lifestyle to those interested, but don't state is as a universal foolproof philosophy. It has it's problems because of drama and while you may not have it, you surely know people will add it to their polygamist relationship and [bleep] over them and others up. This also goes to stating monogamist relationships being absolutely good because if they weren't, such a thread as this would never of existed.

 

 

Drama is everywhere because people will always put it there. Its not everywhere in the everybody-everything way, but in the "every concept can be [bleep]ed up by drama" - which yours has a lot where it can go wrong.

 

Yes, you are correct such that everybody is different and some people out there actually LIKE drama (shudders).

 

However, as I described in my post above, the structure of monogamy makes drama practically inevitable, because monogamy by definition includes a list of rules imposed upon two people. The structure of polyamory makes minimal drama possible. If there's drama in polyamory, it's the person's fault, not the structure's. In monogamy, it can be either the person or the structure (usually both).

 

If more people acted the way I do, there'd be less drama in their relationships-- whether poly or mono. But a lot of people actually like drama, so they're screwed either way. However, even if they act the way I do while mono, they're still in for drama. The same can't be said for poly.

 

You may have seen sometimes if I'm being a smartass, I'll reply to someone's problem on this thread by reminding them that this wouldn't be an issue if they were poly. In such cases, their problem is stemming from monogamy, not their own personalities/behaviors. Poly would fix such problems.

[Giordano]

It's still the person not the structure of monogamy. In monogamy you can end it any time, go your seperate paths, and shut up everything turns out clean. Again, you can't examine the drama-ists of monogamy and blame the entire system of it because I don't examine the drama-ists of polygamy and blame the entire system.

[muggiwhplar]

It's still the person not the structure of monogamy. In monogamy you can end it any time, go your seperate paths, and shut up everything turns out clean.

 

But how often does that actually happen? People who are monogamous and in it for the long haul are usually hoping that they're not wasting their time with the person they're with, and they'd rather grit their teeth and hope that things will improve instead of ending it. Think about the people coming on this thread because they're fighting with their girlfriends-- they'd only end things as a last resort, and even then they'll do it kicking and screaming. And even after breaking up, more often than not they'd still rather be with someone whom they're always fighting with than be alone. The structure of monogamy is based around SCARCITY-- that there's only ONE other person out there for you, and if you don't find him/her and lock them down, you're gonna be alone forever (oh no!)

 

The structure of poly is based around ABUNDANCE-- that there's plenty of other fish in the sea, so it's nearly impossible to be devastated if things don't work out with someone. Additionally, there's no such long-term expectations placed on anybody. Therefore, it is much much easier to end it at any time and cut your losses if things are going south.

[obfuscator]

 

But how often does that actually happen? People who are monogamous and in it for the long haul are usually hoping that they're not wasting their time with the person they're with, and they'd rather grit their teeth and hope that things will improve instead of ending it. Think about the people coming on this thread because they're fighting with their girlfriends-- they'd only end things as a last resort, and even then they'll do it kicking and screaming. And even after breaking up, more often than not they'd still rather be with someone whom they're always fighting with than be alone. The structure of monogamy is based around SCARCITY-- that there's only ONE other person out there for you, and if you don't find him/her and lock them down, you're gonna be alone forever (oh no!)

 

Once again, this thread is a poor subset of humanity to use as an example of the merits of poly-amorous relationships. You're basing your entire view of monogamy on the immature actions of the angsty teenagers who make up the majority of this thread's posters.

 

Did I end things with my girlfriend as a last resort, kicking and screaming? Would I have rather been unsatisfied with them than alone? Did I ever complain of being afraid of being alone forever? Yet I'm as much in favour of monogamy as anyone...

 

I think you're confusing a lot of what you describe as purely characteristics of poly-amorous relationships with characteristics of mature adult relationships.

 

The structure of poly is based around ABUNDANCE-- that there's plenty of other fish in the sea, so it's nearly impossible to be devastated if things don't work out with someone. Additionally, there's no such long-term expectations placed on anybody. Therefore, it is much much easier to end it at any time and cut your losses if things are going south.

 

There's also no real motivation to put in effort towards the relationship if you have the "plenty of other fish in the sea" mentality.

 

I doubt you want kids personally, but do you think it's possible (and encouraged) to raise kids in poly-amorous relationships?

[Assume Nothing]

In effect, we're simply gambling differently. Your style is more risk-free, but lacks the intimacy of monogamy (effectively everyone is a sex-buddy). Monogamy may be more rewarding, but more risky - and difficult to leave due to this social thing we call commitment (thus by extension, tolerance/compromise). In the long-run when people settle down, polyamorous relationships no longer work - especially if you consider marriage/children (which is one of our ultimate goals in the end). Sex with anyone is pleasurable - sure, but I don't believe the affection is on the same scale.

 

If we really want long-term happiness, we must be non-reliant on women to be happy in the first place - testified by the recent posts on the 'Today...' thread. Only time shall tell.

[Giordano]

It's still the person not the structure of monogamy. In monogamy you can end it any time, go your seperate paths, and shut up everything turns out clean.

 

But how often does that actually happen?

I'd like to ask you the same question: how many people fall in love with a polygamist partner and makes it complicated? How much of such a "free-style" lifestyle causes drama and life issues?

 

If you want to argue with statistics then I guess that is fine, but I'll discontinue because I really don't like statistics. Just understand everybody is different (but the vast majority have weak emotional control) and nobody can state for a fact one system is universally better than another, because the words "individual" and "universal" do not go together.

[muggiwhplar]

 

But how often does that actually happen? People who are monogamous and in it for the long haul are usually hoping that they're not wasting their time with the person they're with, and they'd rather grit their teeth and hope that things will improve instead of ending it. Think about the people coming on this thread because they're fighting with their girlfriends-- they'd only end things as a last resort, and even then they'll do it kicking and screaming. And even after breaking up, more often than not they'd still rather be with someone whom they're always fighting with than be alone. The structure of monogamy is based around SCARCITY-- that there's only ONE other person out there for you, and if you don't find him/her and lock them down, you're gonna be alone forever (oh no!)

 

Once again, this thread is a poor subset of humanity. You're basing your entire view of monogamy on the immature actions of the angsty teenagers who make up the majority of this thread's posters.

 

I'm basing it on two things: people's actions, and the structure of their relationship. If there's trouble in poly paradise, someone's being a [wagon]. If there's trouble in a mono relationship, two people could be mature and reasonable, but still suffer because of the structure of their relationship.

 

Did I end things with my girlfriend as a last resort, kicking and screaming? Would I have rather been unsatisfied with them than alone? Did I ever complain of being afraid of being alone forever? Yet I'm as much in favour of monogamy as anyone...

 

Is this hypothetical or did you actually break up with your girlfriend? :blink:

 

I think you're confusing a lot of what you describe as purely characteristics of poly-amorous relationships with characteristics of mature adult relationships.

 

Yes, the two can be identical in some cases. But like I've said, the structures don't always allow that.

 

There's also no real motivation to put in effort towards the relationship if you have the "plenty of other fish in the sea" mentality.

 

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "effort"-- if it's relevant, I don't believe that a healthy relationship should require things like sacrifice and compromise.

 

I doubt you want kids personally, but do you think it's possible (and encouraged) to raise kids in poly-amorous relationships?

 

I'd like kids... someday. Not till I'm in my 40s at the earliest. I'm very grateful that my parents had me after they retired and were financially secure with lots of free time, so I had an amazing childhood... I don't want to have kids until I've got an overabundance of wealth and free time. With that said, I know it's possible to raise healthy kids in a poly arrangement based on what I've read... however, considering that's something far away from now, I haven't really spent much time researching "how" to do it. I just know that people have been successful with it.