"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[muggiwhplar]

In effect, we're simply gambling differently. Your style is more risk-free, but lacks the intimacy of monogamy (effectively everyone is a sex-buddy). Monogamy may be more rewarding, but more risky - and difficult to leave due to this social thing we call commitment (thus by extension, tolerance/compromise). In the long-run when people settle down, polyamorous relationships no longer work - especially if you consider marriage/children (which is one of our ultimate goals in the end). Sex with anyone is pleasurable - sure, but I don't believe the affection is on the same scale.

 

If we really want long-term happiness, we must be non-reliant on women to be happy in the first place - testified by the recent posts on the 'Today...' thread. Only time shall tell.

 

Again, you're assuming that it's impossible to be intimate and have a strong emotional connection if you're poly. It's the same degree of love and intimacy as mono. Poly relationships work as long as you want them to. (By that, I mean you can be poly as long as you want; you can't have poly partners forever in the same way that you can't have mono partners forever).

 

In mono, it usually starts with intimacy/dating, which eventually leads to sex. In poly, it's sex first, which eventually leads to love and intimacy.

 

And you're right about being non-reliant on women. I believe that everyone should be capable of being happy whilst single for long periods of time before pursuing a relationship-- whether poly or mono. My happiest times single were happier than my happiest times with my first girlfriend... I know it's possible to be happy in the long-term w/o a partner, so that's another reason why relationships are "easy" for me-- because there's no fear of failure.

 

It's still the person not the structure of monogamy. In monogamy you can end it any time, go your seperate paths, and shut up everything turns out clean.

 

But how often does that actually happen?

I'd like to ask you the same question: how many people fall in love with a polygamist partner and makes it complicated? How much of such a "free-style" lifestyle causes drama and life issues?

 

If you want to argue with statistics then I guess that is fine, but I'll discontinue because I really don't like statistics. Just understand everybody is different (but the vast majority have weak emotional control) and nobody can state for a fact one system is universally better than another, because the words "individual" and "universal" do not go together.

 

Falling in love is a blessing, it doesn't make things worse. The fact that there's no expectation for things to last forever, and that you're both just going to enjoy things while it lasts is what makes it so awesome.

 

Do we agree that if you have weak emotional control, you're screwed regardless of which arrangement you choose?

 

(We probably disagree where I go on to say that if you have strong emotional control, the structure of monogamy will slowly damage you, whereas poly won't)

[Giordano]

Do we agree that if you have weak emotional control, you're screwed regardless of which arrangement you choose?

Yes.

(We probably disagree where I go on to say that if you have strong emotional control, the structure of monogamy will slowly damage you, whereas poly won't)

Lets end it there, shall we?

[muggiwhplar]

Sounds good.

[obfuscator]

 

I'm basing it on two things: people's actions, and the structure of their relationship. If there's trouble in poly paradise, someone's being a [wagon]. If there's trouble in a mono relationship, two people could be mature and reasonable, but still suffer because of the structure of their relationship.

 

How?

 

Is this hypothetical or did you actually break up with your girlfriend? :blink:

 

You know I broke up with my girlfriend lol, read my pm.

 

Yes, the two can be identical in some cases. But like I've said, the structures don't always allow that.

 

How so?

 

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "effort"-- if it's relevant, I don't believe that a healthy relationship should require things like sacrifice and compromise.

 

Any relationship of any kind requires some degree of sacrifice and compromise. If you truly are unable to compromise on anything you'd probably have no friends and be alienated from your family.

 

I'd like kids... someday. Not till I'm in my 40s at the earliest. I'm very grateful that my parents had me after they retired and were financially secure with lots of free time, so I had an amazing childhood... I don't want to have kids until I've got an overabundance of wealth and free time. With that said, I know it's possible to raise healthy kids in a poly arrangement based on what I've read... however, considering that's something far away from now, I haven't really spent much time researching "how" to do it. I just know that people have been successful with it.

 

And what if you never have "an overabundance of wealth and free time"? Not all of us are going to be millionaires...

 

And I presume you'd like to have kids naturally? The woman in such a case would likely be around your age, by which time she'd likely be close to infertility or at very least it would be more difficult to have kids. Not to mention that if you have kids in your forties they might not even be moving out until you're seventy (so you'd still be supporting them).

[muggiwhplar]

 

I'm basing it on two things: people's actions, and the structure of their relationship. If there's trouble in poly paradise, someone's being a [wagon]. If there's trouble in a mono relationship, two people could be mature and reasonable, but still suffer because of the structure of their relationship.

 

How?

 

Is this hypothetical or did you actually break up with your girlfriend? :blink:

 

You know I broke up with my girlfriend lol, read my pm.

 

Yes, the two can be identical in some cases. But like I've said, the structures don't always allow that.

 

How so?

 

It's like I've said-- since you're not allowed to cheat in monogamy, you're with one person for the rest of your life. A close friend of mine has been dating his girlfriend for about 3 years now, and I've always kind of looked to them as an example of a healthy, mature mono relationship. But even my friend admitted to me that he gets bored having sex with his [very attractive] girlfriend. He loves her to death, but still can't help but wonder what it'd be like if he was allowed to hook up with the girls who hit on him at the bars, and still be with his current girlfriend for love and security.

 

Point being-- if they both understood that sex is just sex-- and that if my friend had a one night stand w/ some girl, he wouldn't love his current girlfriend any less. and she probably wouldn't love him any less either (though she'd probably trust him less hah)... but if they did that, then they would, by definition, no longer be monogamous

 

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "effort"-- if it's relevant, I don't believe that a healthy relationship should require things like sacrifice and compromise.

 

Any relationship of any kind requires some degree of sacrifice and compromise. If you truly are unable to compromise on anything you'd probably have no friends and be alienated from your family.

 

This reminds me of an argument that someone presented several months back... they shared a link from that "artofmanliness" website (God help me), where it was talking about how people should be able to do favors for each other and not mind doing so in a healthy relationship... and I agree with that.

 

Here's an example from last week-- a friend asked me if I'd help him move furniture over to his new house. I said yes and ended up spending like 5 hours moving stuff with him in the heat, for free. It didn't bother me because I felt good for helping a friend. I don't consider that compromise, even though that's an activity that most people would consider unpleasant.

 

In contrast, one of my closest friends used to be a hardcore drug addict. one time he got in some trouble doing something illegal and basically asked me to bail him out. I said no because I would feel wrong for doing so, even though he's a close friend of mine. while he wasn't happy that I didn't help him, he understood why I didn't and we're still close friends to this day. if he had gotten pissed at me and called me a bad friend, then I would've reluctantly chosen to terminate the friendship.

 

hope those examples make sense/are relevant >_>

 

I'd like kids... someday. Not till I'm in my 40s at the earliest. I'm very grateful that my parents had me after they retired and were financially secure with lots of free time, so I had an amazing childhood... I don't want to have kids until I've got an overabundance of wealth and free time. With that said, I know it's possible to raise healthy kids in a poly arrangement based on what I've read... however, considering that's something far away from now, I haven't really spent much time researching "how" to do it. I just know that people have been successful with it.

 

And what if you never have "an overabundance of wealth and free time"? Not all of us are going to be millionaires...

 

And I presume you'd like to have kids naturally? The woman in such a case would likely be around your age, by which time she'd likely be close to infertility or at very least it would be more difficult to have kids. Not to mention that if you have kids in your forties they might not even be moving out until you're seventy (so you'd still be supporting them).

 

If I am never capable of meeting my required conditions for having kids, then I will never have kids-- I'm doing fine and dandy without them. But I don't think that's how things will turn out :)

 

Like I said-- I know it can be done, but I'm unsure of the logistics right now, and I'm not too concerned about it. I plan on dating girls under 30 for a very, very long time.

[obfuscator]

It's like I've said-- since you're not allowed to cheat in monogamy, you're with one person for the rest of your life. A close friend of mine has been dating his girlfriend for about 3 years now, and I've always kind of looked to them as an example of a healthy, mature mono relationship. But even my friend admitted to me that he gets bored having sex with his [very attractive] girlfriend. He loves her to death, but still can't help but wonder what it'd be like if he was allowed to hook up with the girls who hit on him at the bars, and still be with his current girlfriend for love and security.

 

You have to realize that your friend is one example out of many people. Just because your friend has a desire to hook up with other girls doesn't mean everyone does.

 

Point being-- if they both understood that sex is just sex-- and that if my friend had a one night stand w/ some girl, he wouldn't love his current girlfriend any less. and she probably wouldn't love him any less either (though she'd probably trust him less hah)... but if they did that, then they would, by definition, no longer be monogamous

 

Of course, but sex is not necessarily just sex.

 

 

This reminds me of an argument that someone presented several months back... they shared a link from that "artofmanliness" website (God help me), where it was talking about how people should be able to do favors for each other and not mind doing so in a healthy relationship... and I agree with that.

 

Here's an example from last week-- a friend asked me if I'd help him move furniture over to his new house. I said yes and ended up spending like 5 hours moving stuff with him in the heat, for free. It didn't bother me because I felt good for helping a friend. I don't consider that compromise, even though that's an activity that most people would consider unpleasant.

 

Not compromise, no...but sacrifice. Why can't the same apply in a monogamous relationship?

 

In contrast, one of my closest friends used to be a hardcore drug addict. one time he got in some trouble doing something illegal and basically asked me to bail him out. I said no because I would feel wrong for doing so, even though he's a close friend of mine. while he wasn't happy that I didn't help him, he understood why I didn't and we're still close friends to this day. if he had gotten pissed at me and called me a bad friend, then I would've reluctantly chosen to terminate the friendship.

 

And you could just as soon do the same for someone in a monogamous relationship, although personally I doubt a hardcore drug addict is capable of maintaining a worthwhile relationship.

 

If I am never capable of meeting my required conditions for having kids, then I will never have kids-- I'm doing fine and dandy without them. But I don't think that's how things will turn out :)

 

Like I said-- I know it can be done, but I'm unsure of the logistics right now, and I'm not too concerned about it. I plan on dating girls under 30 for a very, very long time.

 

A) Same for myself. And I'm monogamous. Once again - characteristic of mature relationships, not just poly-amorous ones.

B) I've already been over with you why this plan is probably unrealistic...but to each his own.

[muggiwhplar]

Well, let me ask you this--

 

If a girl asks her boyfriend to watch a chick flick with her, and he knows for the next 90 minutes he's gonna be bored out of his mind, even though he loves his girlfriend, what do you think they should do?

[obfuscator]

Well, let me ask you this--

 

If a girl asks her boyfriend to watch a chick flick with her, and he knows for the next 90 minutes he's gonna be bored out of his mind, even though he loves his girlfriend, what do you think they should do?

The same thing a man and a woman in a poly-amorous relationship should do.

[Assume Nothing]

... I haven't really read through the back-and-forth between you, so I'm not sure how appropriate this is: does being monogamish change things at all?

[obfuscator]

... I haven't really read through the back-and-forth between you, so I'm not sure how appropriate this is: does being monogamish change things at all?

Seems to me to be the same as poly-amory.

[muggiwhplar]

What do you mean? is monogamish actually a term that people use or something?

[Assume Nothing]

... it's the closest term I could think of to 'monogamy with occasional exceptions'.

[muggiwhplar]

... it's the closest term I could think of to 'monogamy with occasional exceptions'.

 

Ah. Yes, that's called polyamory :P If anybody cheats in a monogamous relationship, it's no longer monogamous from that point forward

 

There's different degrees of polyamory though, btw...

-only having one night stands

-only having friends with benefits

-having multiple girlfriends

-having one primary girlfriend, but with "occasional exceptions," as you put it

[Assume Nothing]

I'd be okay with the last one, if it's a branching philosophy in the way that you put it. I was under the impression that it meant either only having friends with benefits, or having multiple partners all the time.

[Randox]

I see I missed some fun, but read your reply muggi, and it makes me feel better.

 

One of my rules for relationships, and I think this easily applies just as well to your style, is that you can't make an ultimatum. Once an ultimatum is made, the relationship is over, and you go your separate ways. This doesn't even rule out 'we are doing this my way', it just means at no point is anyone in a serious relationship allowed to say 'we/you are doing x or I am leaving you/other threat'.

 

As a general question, and sorry if this was answered after my eyes glazed over, how do you feel about people who want to have children. I can see the potential for meaningful relationships in a poly arangement, even if I can't understand how you can take it or leave it, but one of the key aspects would seem to be zero commitment to the long term. I just can't see having children in that kind of arrangement.

 

At the end of the day, I would still have to favor either monogamy, or serial monogamy on the terms that when you have children, your going to see them through to financial independance before you can move on to someone else (which would be about twice as long as your biological serial clock wants you to stick around I would imagine).

[RpgGamer]

so....many...walls of text...

 

I fall on a bizzarre angle of this debate. I would define my relationship with x girl pending my feelings toward her. There's girls you want to commit to, and there are those you don't. There are girls you go monogamous with, and there are girls you don't. Not to say I wouldn't marry a hooker, provided she was a "keeper" , but I'm not going to get all poly-amorous with someone I fall madly in love with either. In all likelyhood.

 

Ambiguity. Awwwww yeahhh

[muggiwhplar]

I see I missed some fun, but read your reply muggi, and it makes me feel better.

 

One of my rules for relationships, and I think this easily applies just as well to your style, is that you can't make an ultimatum. Once an ultimatum is made, the relationship is over, and you go your separate ways. This doesn't even rule out 'we are doing this my way', it just means at no point is anyone in a serious relationship allowed to say 'we/you are doing x or I am leaving you/other threat'.

 

As a general question, and sorry if this was answered after my eyes glazed over, how do you feel about people who want to have children. I can see the potential for meaningful relationships in a poly arangement, even if I can't understand how you can take it or leave it, but one of the key aspects would seem to be zero commitment to the long term. I just can't see having children in that kind of arrangement.

 

At the end of the day, I would still have to favor either monogamy, or serial monogamy on the terms that when you have children, your going to see them through to financial independance before you can move on to someone else (which would be about twice as long as your biological serial clock wants you to stick around I would imagine).

 

I'm fine with serial monogamists... it's a lot more realistic than long-term monogamy, though I still dislike it because of the lack of freedom. I would be happy if most people on this thread switched to serial monogamy rather than holding out for a long-term monogamous partner... the funny thing is that technically everybody here is a serial monogamist already because I don't think anyone here's been married for several years or anything like that :P

 

As far as children go-- like I said to y_guy, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I've read enough to know that it's possible, but since it's such a far away thing, I don't bother looking too deeply into it. But from what I've read, the poly dynamic would be basically having one committed partner, but you're both still allowed to see other people on the side as long as the other person doesn't know specific details about it. Similarly, one person decides they want to have a child, the other basically says "ok I'll give you a child, but you get to be in charge of everything the child does-- both good and bad. I'll just be here for guidance and support"

 

so....many...walls of text...

 

I fall on a bizzarre angle of this debate. I would define my relationship with x girl pending my feelings toward her. There's girls you want to commit to, and there are those you don't. There are girls you go monogamous with, and there are girls you don't. Not to say I wouldn't marry a hooker, provided she was a "keeper" , but I'm not going to get all poly-amorous with someone I fall madly in love with either. In all likelyhood.

 

Ambiguity. Awwwww yeahhh

 

I think you'll appreciate this: http://blackdragonblog.wordpress.com/2011/09/27/dont-screen-women-instead-categorize/

[Jeffwilson99]

 

 

I think you'll appreciate this: http://blackdragonblog.wordpress.com/2011/09/27/dont-screen-women-instead-categorize/

 

Interesting stuff. I read this stuff and realise I do some of this stuff, but not really. Especially the part about turning down sex, which I don't do. Usually after getting with a girl for a while, then I'll start to categorise them. Screening them from the star sounds like Ted from How I Met Your Mother, which is obviously an extreme case of that.

 

I spent a bit of time reading that guys blog, he has some pretty good points. Obviously, it's a bit pseudo scientific, but I can see a lot of it being applicable.

[I_am_Geed]

Going on a date with a really cute girl I'v talked with online and been texting for a while this weekend. Super pumped. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

 

Before you all jump in, I understand every concern in the book you're going to throw at me about dating websites (okcupid is where we met specifically). I'v done this before. I'v lived.

[Vezon Dash]

Going on a date with a really cute girl I'v talked with online and been texting for a while this weekend. Super pumped. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

 

Before you all jump in, I understand every concern in the book you're going to throw at me about dating websites (okcupid is where we met specifically). I'v done this before. I'v lived.

 

 

Inb4itsactuallyaman

 

 

Good luck to you. :thumbup:

[RpgGamer]

Buddy of mine just had his anniversary with a girl that he met on Okcupid. It's actually not a terrible site in some areas.

[I_am_Geed]

Buddy of mine just had his anniversary with a girl that he met on Okcupid. It's actually not a terrible site in some areas.

 

That's awesome to hear. I mean I'm in the Boston area, full of college kids like me. Which makes things funny because despite the fact we both go to school there she goes to an all girls school and I go to almost an all guys school (5:1 male:female ratio) so finding people on campus if you're straight is a little hard..... bwahaha.

[Vezon Dash]

Buddy of mine just had his anniversary with a girl that he met on Okcupid. It's actually not a terrible site in some areas.

 

That's awesome to hear. I mean I'm in the Boston area, full of college kids like me. Which makes things funny because despite the fact we both go to school there she goes to an all girls school and I go to almost an all guys school (5:1 male:female ratio) so finding people on campus if you're straight is a little hard..... bwahaha.

 

The all guys school near where I live is an easy place to find girls because they all go there from other schools to party.

[I_am_Geed]

Buddy of mine just had his anniversary with a girl that he met on Okcupid. It's actually not a terrible site in some areas.

 

That's awesome to hear. I mean I'm in the Boston area, full of college kids like me. Which makes things funny because despite the fact we both go to school there she goes to an all girls school and I go to almost an all guys school (5:1 male:female ratio) so finding people on campus if you're straight is a little hard..... bwahaha.

 

The all guys school near where I live is an easy place to find girls because they all go there from other schools to party.

 

 

See thats the thing. Everyone leaves my campus and goes around the city for parties. I'm unfortunately not in with anyone who goes, and I'm not 21 so I can't get into the club. Which makes online dating a little more of a convenience because I can meet people who live really close by (walking distance cause who drives in the city?) that I would never have met otherwise.

[Jeffwilson99]

Hmm I was actually wondering that, about how many people at college/uni use online dating sites. I wouldn't have thought it was that many, but it's probably more than one would think.