"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Omar]

He's more important to himself, but his issue is a lot less pressing than hers I think. I think he'd do well to at least try to understand what's freaking him out about this.

[muggiwhplar]

Muggi, I think even if there's no commitment there is still an issue. Her self-esteem is the problem IMO. If he calls it off now she'll probably connect some dots and feel like having been raped is a big turn-off, possibly more so than before. Admittedly this isn't really Low_Levelled's responsibility, but he could take one for the team and try to get over it.

I find it strange (I'm not trying to accuse you of anything) that what you don't comprehend is how someone could rape someone else. That would be about the "someone", not the "someone else". Doesn't seem to be the crux of the issue.

How did this come up anyway?

 

I'm glad you realize that her feelings aren't Low's responsibility. Only his own are. This problem is still Low's fault to begin with, though.

 

I suspect that to begin with, we have a fundamental misunderstanding here as to the "rules" of a FWB relationship. In my eyes, a "healthy" FWB relationship is literally sex only. No dates, no spending the night, no extended cuddling, etc. Basically nothing that you would do with your girlfriend. You call her or she calls you, you two hook up, then part ways till your needs align again. No emotional commitment whatsoever.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suspect that Low's suffering from the Madonna-[bleep] Complex to a small degree... meaning, if he finds out a girl has been [bleep]ing other dudes, he gets turned off/jealous/needy. Obviously it's not exactly like that in this particular case, but his reaction's pretty much the same as your average jealous, needy dude.

 

Regardless of whether or not that's the case, this is his problem. But I think we already knew that. As I've said in my previous replies, it all depends on what he wants right now. If he wants to keep her, or wishes he could keep her but his feelings aren't allowing it, then it's up to him to get his shit together and quit letting things like this bother him.

 

If he ultimately chooses to end it for whatever reason, he shouldn't feel obligated to explain himself to her. Yes, this may sound "shallow" or "cowardly" to you, but those terms are irrelevant here. If this ends badly and blows up in his face, this is his fault for getting too close to her and acting like her boyfriend.

 

In a FWB relationship, if you remain unattached then problems like these never happen and both parties can remain happy and sexually fulfilled.

 

But if not, until your in a committed relationship or a parent, then self is more important than anyone else, and you need to do what you need to do. In a committed relationship, then I would say both people must consider each other the same as self, and once your a parent then obviously your children are the most important people in your lives.

 

:wall:

 

This belief right here is one reason why so many relationships fail. While it sounds good (and politically correct) on paper to start placing someone else's wellbeing above your own, and to sacrifice your individuality and replace it with an "us," this usually just leads to massive problems down the road.

 

Why can't more people just enter relationships while maintaining their individuality and crossing paths with their partner(s) when their needs align? As opposed to forcing your partner(s) to do things with you when their needs aren't always the same as yours?

 

When it comes to relationships, the self is always #1. And that doesn't mean that you have to treat your loved ones with any less compassion, love, and respect, either. It's easier to give to the people you care about when you've got your shit together than when you're worrying about other people's problems on top of your own as well.

 

Also, more food for thought: the reason you treat everyone with love and respect, even if they're your own parents or kids, is because deep down you know that you will personally benefit from doing so in the long run in one way, shape, or form. Read this: http://harrybrowne.o...iftDaughter.htm

[muggiwhplar]

BTW I've been tinkering with my post a lot as usual, so I apologize in advance if you've been quoting an outdated version of my post :P

[Omar]

This isn't your average FWB relationship. This girl was raped. Even if he had specified there are no strings attached, this would still be a shitty situation--not his problem, but still shitty. It's not really a matter of responsibility; as much as I'd like to say he's a dickhole, I couldn't justify it. A matter of responsibility is when the question is "Is he in the black or in the gray?". It's not his responsibility (that's her brother's, not that he could do anything about it at this point, but anyway), so he's at least in the gray. What I'm saying is this situation sucks, in the same way natural disasters do, and that it would be cool if someone helped out. This can only be a matter of altruism, the root of which is empathy, not guilt.

 

I don't even know if we're arguing frankly. I'm trying to get him to put himself in her shoes in the hopes that he won't want to end it. If I'm reading you right, you're saying if he ends it, he doesn't have to explain anything, and that it's his fault that he's in this situation. Correct?

[muggiwhplar]

Yes, if he ends it he doesn't need to explain himself and it's his fault that he feels this way. It's both of their fault that the relationship is being threatened (her for admitting that to a FWB; him for not having his shit together).

 

I really don't see why the fact that she was raped is such a big deal to him. Yes, it's a horrible thing that happened, but if she's acting weird because of it, then he should reconsider continuing to be around her. That's not his problem, and he shouldn't be trying to fix her. Some people may call that being insensitive, I call it being smart. This really shouldn't be any of his business at all and of all the people in the world, I'm sure there are many, many people in her life who are more qualified to help her out than Low.

 

But if I'm understanding this correctly, he's the one who's acting weird here, not her. Therefore, he's the one who needs more help than she does because he's being a big baby.

 

Anyways I think I'm done with this discussion for now, as I'm sure regardless of what's said, Low's already dug his own grave.

 

 

And as a friendly reminder, my thoughts would likely be very different if these two weren't in a FWB arrangement-- an arrangement which demands unattachment.

[Tim]

I've personally never been in a FWB (one of the few men who hasn't), but just my two cents would be to end the entire thing for the time being. Spewing up something THAT personal to a "[bleep]buddy" isn't something you do when you've established that sort of relationship and personally the best option is to end it all before all sorts of shit happens, emotional wise also.

 

Although I haven't been in one, I've witnessed MANY of them. (hence my mild hatred for it. you know, that one guy left in the dust sorta thing)

[Randox]

But if not, until your in a committed relationship or a parent, then self is more important than anyone else, and you need to do what you need to do. In a committed relationship, then I would say both people must consider each other the same as self, and once your a parent then obviously your children are the most important people in your lives.

 

:wall:

 

This belief right here is one reason why so many relationships fail. While it sounds good (and politically correct) on paper to start placing someone else's wellbeing above your own, and to sacrifice your individuality and replace it with an "us," this usually just leads to massive problems down the road.

 

Why can't more people just enter relationships while maintaining their individuality and crossing paths with their partner(s) when their needs align? As opposed to forcing your partner(s) to do things with you when their needs aren't always the same as yours?

 

When it comes to relationships, the self is always #1. And that doesn't mean that you have to treat your loved ones with any less compassion, love, and respect, either. It's easier to give to the people you care about when you've got your shit together than when you're worrying about other people's problems on top of your own as well.

 

Also, more food for thought: the reason you treat everyone with love and respect, even if they're your own parents or kids, is because deep down you know that you will personally benefit from doing so in the long run in one way, shape, or form. Read this: http://harrybrowne.o...iftDaughter.htm

 

Err, not really what I said. First off, I think I have covered it in the past, but if your making compromises that are going to breed resentment, then your relationship has no buisness being. It's going to fail or make at least one of you miserable, so you should see the writing on the wall and bail out. When I say 'us', I mean I don't get to one day go out and buy myself a Lotus because I want a kick ass car, and make us unable to pay our mortgage. When I say we are equal (and I did say equal, I never said placing more importance on the other person, and if I did, that's not what I was thinking), I mean I don't get to blow off date because I want to go clubbing, and if I call my boyfriend up while he is watchng family guy, I expect him to pause it and talk to me rather than saying sorry but he doesn't feel like supporting me right now. My point being, in a relationship, you have to care about the other person, and you have to consider their needs in addition to your own. If some sort of balance is struck that makes you both happy, then awesome. You've completed step one to not being miserable and screaming at each other for the rest of your lives.

 

For friends with benefits, perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I would assume they are still friends, and this isn't just a strait up booty call with a random stranger. So while there is no commitment, there would seem to be some obligation to either support your friends, or stop being friends, and if the latter, then don't be a dick about it unless they did something to deserve it. Since I don't think being raped is ground for other people to be a dick to you, then I'd like to see that not happen. Now, he has every right to bail if he can't handle it, and if he can't handle confronting her than so be it. My position is more of a don't do something your going to regret, because when you in a better place yourself, you might look back on your life and wish you hand't gone down easy street.

 

And for the article, I'll take a read, but you did get me. I am well aware that we are social creatures and ultimately we are in it for personal gain. We get benefits from our relationships, and we will only have relationships as long as we are getting enough out of them to compensate us for the risk.

 

And out of curiosity, how do you manage only being in relationships where you can't share your feelings without fearing or even expecting the other person to run for the hills the second things aren't 100% rainbows? You have all of the physical intimacy and satisfaction you could ever want, and none of the emotional support. It never hit me before, but that seems very lonely.

[muggiwhplar]

I think we more or less agree, except when it comes to the feasibility of said-beliefs when applied to long-term monogamy. But we've already beaten that horse to death :P

 

As far as emotional commitment goes in relationships, as I've said before there are different degrees of relationships

 

As you go down the list, you lose freedom but gain emotional intimacy and drama:

One night stands only

FWBs only (you ONLY see these people for sex. You never hang out)

Multiple girlfriends (this is where you start entering "love" territory)

One main girlfriend with a few discrete FWBs/ONS on the side

Exclusive girlfriend

Marriage

 

Depends on what you want. Obviously if you dont have your shit together your relationships will be doomed to begin with. But if you look at it, poly is ironically the more "moderate" and balanced option.

 

I rely mostly on my friends and family for emotional support, when necessary. But is a very very very rare problem for me. That being said, I'm always there for my friends who make less-intelligent decisions and need a shoulder to cry on/reassurance/a swift kick in the ass :)

 

And as far as loneliness goes, I think loneliness stems from feeling misunderstood and left out by others, as opposed to actually being alone/single. I can say anything to the people whom I love the most without fearing rejection or lack of understanding, and that's probably the main reason why I never get lonely, even though I usually prefer solitude.

[RpgGamer]

Would you ever marry a girl[or guy, whatever] outside of your relationship interests for the temporal legal/financial gain?

 

Cause I was proposed to with intent to pretend like she lived in my state so that when she transferred she wouldn't have to pay out of state fees next year. Wasn't really feeling the whole legally binding contract thing myself...

[Tim]

^ That, would be an insanely TERRIBLE idea.

 

Far too many problems can happen doing that, even for a friend I would not legally marry her because there's just so much shit that'll happen, and if you married for real later, how do you explain you've actually been married/divorced, and if they see its only for like a month or w/e, that's an even bigger eyebrow raiser.

[Low Levelled]

Okay, so I completely ended things with her. She was pretty upset, and I hate seeing girls cry, but it's whatever. It was a pretty typical FWB relationship. We had a first date, realized we had nothing in common, so we then proceeded to only meet up when it was convenient for sex. That is typical right?

 

 

[spoiler=@muggi]

 

Yes, if he ends it he doesn't need to explain himself and it's his fault that he feels this way. It's both of their fault that the relationship is being threatened (her for admitting that to a FWB; him for not having his shit together).

 

I really don't see why the fact that she was raped is such a big deal to him. Yes, it's a horrible thing that happened, but if she's acting weird because of it, then he should reconsider continuing to be around her. That's not his problem, and he shouldn't be trying to fix her. Some people may call that being insensitive, I call it being smart. This really shouldn't be any of his business at all and of all the people in the world, I'm sure there are many, many people in her life who are more qualified to help her out than Low.

 

But if I'm understanding this correctly, he's the one who's acting weird here, not her. Therefore, he's the one who needs more help than she does because he's being a big baby.

 

Anyways I think I'm done with this discussion for now, as I'm sure regardless of what's said, Low's already dug his own grave.

 

 

And as a friendly reminder, my thoughts would likely be very different if these two weren't in a FWB arrangement-- an arrangement which demands unattachment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to hear how i'm acting weird, and like a big baby. Oh, and of course I didn't have my shit together, no one prepares you for something like that?

 

 

[spoiler=omar]

Muggi, I think even if there's no commitment there is still an issue. Her self-esteem is the problem IMO. If he calls it off now she'll probably connect some dots and feel like having been raped is a big turn-off, possibly more so than before. Admittedly this isn't really Low_Levelled's responsibility, but he could take one for the team and try to get over it.

I find it strange (I'm not trying to accuse you of anything) that what you don't comprehend is how someone could rape someone else. That would be about the "someone", not the "someone else". Doesn't seem to be the crux of the issue.

How did this come up anyway?

 

 

You were right, she immediately put together 2 and 2, and soon came to the conclusion everything changed when she confided in me.

[Noxx]

Well i'm pretty much back to where i started now.

A few weeks ago i went back home for a short visit/holiday. Now about a week before i left me and the French girl kind of decided to call it quits. We saw very little of each other the 2 or 3 weeks prior to our decision, due to very different schedules. It was also pretty hard for us to actually go out and do something because i realized she was much more of a dinner and a movie kind of girl as apposed to a "let's go out and dance" kind of girl. I'm more of a "lets go out and dance" kind of guy myself. i hate the cinema, and i think in the past 3 years i've been there no more than 3 times. So it started causing a bit of conflict between the two of us. Stupid, i know. But anyway. About two days after she and i called it quits, we went out (me and my mates). This was about 40 hours before i had a flight back home. We went to some club, and late that night we met a group of girls. The one seemed to look at me pretty much the whole time (before we actually went up and talked to them). Now i'm a very oblivious guy and i always seem to make up excuses as to why someone might be doing something. So i figured, maybe she was just looking at me because i reminded her of someone, maybe she liked the shirt i was wearing, or what ever. I didn't really care too much as my plan was not to go there and meet girls, but rather to have a good time with my friends before leaving them for 3 weeks.

Well anyway, as the night continued eventually my friend told me that he thinks she's into me, and i should go talk to her. So i did. I was pretty nervous at first, it was hard to hear her over the loud music, so i asked her to join me outside, where the music isn't so loud. So we went outside and we talked. About 5 minutes later my housemate came outside as well, to have a cigarette. Now hes a much more outgoing guy than me, he talks to who he wants when he wants. He kind of took over the conversation i had with this girl, thinking he's helping me out. At that time i can pretty much say that i had things under control. I was getting where i needed to get.

So after standing there for about 5 minutes, not saying a word, i kind of got pissed off, and went back inside to the other guys. I continued shaking it it the dance floor for another 15 minutes or so till everyone decided to go out for a smoke, and i joined them. My housemate, who was talking to the girl, came over to me at that time (the girls was sitting on a chair outside, not far from where we were standing) and told me to go talk to her. I told him that i couldn't be asked anymore. He was confused as to why i said that, and i explained to him that he pretty much cockblocked me like crazy. He could not understand it. He kept on trying to force me to go talk to her and i refused. I was over it. I could not be asked any more. I was pissed off and just wanted to chill out. So what he does next made me really angry. He took me by the arm, and called over the girl. I tried jerking away but he held firm. She came over and asked what's up. Then the shit hit the fan. He told her that i was to shy to go talk to her, so now he's going to help me out and initiate a conversation. When he said that i felt like a [bleep]ing moron. Seriously?

Anyway, i told her that i was sorry about what just happened, i think my housemate is drunk (which he actually was). We talked for a bit and then she told me she's going to give me her number and i can call her sometime, or something. she left maybe 10 minutes after that.

 

Okay so i got her number. Cool. Not really. I'm leaving in like 30 hours for 3 weeks. That gives me 30 hours to actually talk to her. I sent her a text about 10 minutes after she left the club, saying something jokingly. I know a lot of guys follow the 72 hour rule, but i think it's pretty bullshit. i always think it's better to remind her who you are before she goes to bed rather than send her a message 3 days later and have her wondering who you are.

 

Anyway, she sent something back, and it went back and forth for 2 or 3 texts at which point i pretty much fell asleep in the back seat of the car (we were on our way back home now too).

The next day i sent her a text, saying sorry for not replying, blah blah. She then asked me a few more personal questions which was not covered in our conversation the night before, such as where exactly i'm from, what do i do for fun, etc. It seemed to be a good thing because it sounded like she wanted to get to know me. I then told her that it was pretty bad timing that i had met her on that night, because i was leaving for 3 weeks. We seemed to hit it off pretty well. I asked her what she was doing later that night, maybe me and my friends could meet up with her and her friends somewhere. She didn't reply until the next morning, at which time i was already on the airport. Right about then i just could not be asked anymore, so i sent her a text saying i was about to get on the plane so my number is going to be "out of service" for the next 3 weeks or so, so i guess i'll talk to her when i get back.

 

Nowwwww, i sent her a text about 4 or 5 days after i got back after seeing something that reminded me about a joke she made that night. She asked me how i was doing etc, etc. The usual shit. We talked for about an hour and a half and then the conversation died out. I figured now would be as good a time as any and i told her that maybe we should get together some time and "catch up". This was yesterday i think. She didn't reply.

Now i can only take this as a bad thing. When we were talking she gave no indication for me to [bleep] off and leave her alone. She seemed pretty interested, in conversing with me. She never seemed to try and cut the conversation short, in fact she almost seemed to want to keep it going at times. It's a bit confusing.

 

So basically, after writing half a book on what happened the last month of my life i ask one simple (maybe not really so simple) question.

What do i do now?

 

I don't want to keep texting her, and start looking like some creepy guy. But i don't want to stop texting her either, because we seem to get on pretty alright. I don't want to come across as needy and clingy before anything even has a chance to start, but i don't want to cut off all ties before giving it a chance either.

 

Confused. That is what i am.

[muggiwhplar]

It's something that's so common these days (seems like the statistic is 1 in 3 girls?) that it shouldn't come as a surprise. You yourself admitted that you were being superficial about it too when you first found out.

 

Good job on ending it, though.

[Low Levelled]

Yeah, that is true, you are right about my superficial tendencies. But, is it really that high? that's crazy. so theoretically, of my mom, sister, grandmother, at least one has been sexually abused?

 

of course inner cities spike the statistics, but it still is nuts that its 33%

[muggiwhplar]

Noxxx, next time you go out with your friends, just text her something like, "hey me and my friends are going out tonight. You're welcome to join us if you want" or "...text me later if ya wanna know what I'm up to!"

 

Or, you can just abandon all contact and wait for her to text you, at which point you say something like, "so I suppose you'd like to get together again soon?"

 

Either way it puts the ball in her court and basically implies, "Hi, I'm about to go continue having fun. That'd be awesome if you came along, but if you don't want to join me, that's cool too."

 

It's a win-win... The goal is to make her say yes or no so you she doesn't waste your time in the "maybe" category.

 

Of course, it's not very effective if you aren't actually having a good time w/o her :P

[Omar]

Man, that seems like an awful lot of effort for a girl you couldn't be bothered to talk to twice. Do what Muggi said if you like, but I don't see where this is going (at least from what you wrote).

[Randox]

Noxxx, next time you go out with your friends, just text her something like, "hey me and my friends are going out tonight. You're welcome to join us if you want" or "...text me later if ya wanna know what I'm up to!"

 

Or, you can just abandon all contact and wait for her to text you, at which point you say something like, "so I suppose you'd like to get together again soon?"

 

Either way it puts the ball in her court and basically implies, "Hi, I'm about to go continue having fun. That'd be awesome if you came along, but if you don't want to join me, that's cool too."

 

It's a win-win... The goal is to make her say yes or no so you she doesn't waste your time in the "maybe" category.

 

Of course, it's not very effective if you aren't actually having a good time w/o her :P

Pretty much this. The other solution would be to actually call her and talk voice to voice so that she can't just stop responding, though the time when you could do that without being stalkerish might have sailed by now.

 

And I think the sexual abuse rate is a bit lower than that. Good on you for breaking it off, even though I'm sure that sucked royally.

[Low Levelled]

^ kinda late, but congrats on becoming an admin

[Randox]

^ kinda late, but congrats on becoming an admin

:lol: Thanks!

 

And thinking about it more, Noxx you should be able to get away with calling her, and just saying that you weren't sure if she still wanted to get together, and you'd just like an answer either way and if the answer is no you'll leave her alone. Get your answer and go from there.

[Omar]

Seems to me like being explicit about this isn't the way to go.

[muggiwhplar]

Made a profile on two online dating sites. Gonna send out ~50 messages on each site on Sunday afternoon.

 

Online dating seems like the overall best "end-game" dating method, so I think it's a worthy endeavor to invest in and learn how to master.

 

Reasoning:

-New people signing up each week; basically an unlimited pool of potential meets; no need to worry about what happens if that "one girl" isn't interested

-Very little competition, especially compared to the bars. Most of the guys on these sites are super-needy

-Time-friendly:

a) I can set up dates at the most convenient time for me

b) I don't have to stay out late at bars or anything

c) I can send out dozens of messages at once, as opposed to one at a time

-No one-night-stands (contrary to what my posts may imply, I don't enjoy these)

-No alcohol involved

 

I'm not expecting much in return on my first "trial" but we'll see how it goes. I made a detailed spreadsheet to track my results and to determine which areas need the most improvement :geek:

[Riku3220]

I can't say I'm too fond of the idea of online dating. It always seems like a "last resort" to me, but maybe I'm just too caught up with the idea of it being like F2P Runescape...

 

Good luck muggi!

[RpgGamer]

my friend just made a profile on okcupid and got a date in 22 hours. shits magic. You may wish to consult Iamdan in your experiments. I remember he took a very scientific approach to online dating profiles.

[Omar]

This is interesting, excited to see your results.

[Tim]

Majority of women on those sites are insanely picky and its litteraly a case of sterotyping in order to find the man they want