Today...

[Veiva]

 

Using the excuse of voter fraud is a joke; it's a non issue. Especially when the federal party had several instances of election related offences (robo calls, etc). They're instituting voter ID requirements here too, which hurts First Nations (Indian Status cards aren't acceptable) and low-income families.

How does it hurt low income families or first nations when they can get photo id for free?

 

Once again: It is completely reasonable to expect people to be able to prove they are who they say they are when carrying out an important civic duty. No one complains about having to provide ID to buy alcohol, but ask people to do it to vote, and shit hits the fan? Ridiculous.

 

Probably different in Canada, but in this great country, photo ID is per-state (there is no federal ID). It has a fee (I think here it's $10). It requires various proofs of residency and identity (social security, birth certificate, bills and leases, so on). You have to go to your local DMV office, which is 6.5 miles from my home (so over a 2 hour walk away, or a 2 hour bus ride, which is another $3). The wait at the DMV can be... hours. Hours and hours. When I went (luckily my mom was still alive, and we had a somewhat reliable means of transportation [aka a '92 Ford Tempo; this was in 2010 I believe]), I had to wait six hours.

 

Factoring in someone in a situation like me, 10 hours to try and get an ID and $13. These "proofs of identity" can be difficult for poorer households to obtain. Another copy of my birth certificate is $9, oh.. and I'd need a state-issued photo ID to request it from the Florida Office of Vital Records, hahaha... Depending on the other documents you choose, they can be hard or costly to obtain, as well.

 

I'm not going to assume anyone here is in poverty. I guess I can't quite say I am either (projected yearly income is $16,800 between my brother and me, which is $900 above the federal poverty guideline, yay). However, I realize I'm lucky enough to squeeze by and make the best of my situation. Heck, my brother and me can probably put upwards of $50 a month away in savings starting in October ($1400ish a month income split up between $625 rent, $300 for gas/electric/water, $55 for internet, $45 for phone service, $230ish for food, $40 for my brother's bus fare, and $40 for miscellaneous bills [internet hosting, "Netflix" alternative aka VPN so I can torrent all the things, and Amazon Prime, which I may cancel soon enough]).

 

Sadly, we couldn't afford a vehicle (I would have to obtain a license [so driver's ed + cost of license(s)], would probably have to pay more for insurance as a result, and also the upfront cost of a car and then maintenance afterwards). This alone puts my brother and me at a massive disadvantage in just about every respect. Due to lack of reliable transportation, I am still not sure how we will manage, if possible, going to college next year (2 hour bus ride there, 2 hours back; oh, and the bus essentially runs 6:30 am to 6:30 pm, Monday through Saturday), disregarding how our employer's would handle the changes in the schedule and my health issues (namely insomnia and irregular sleeping patterns).

 

In brief, there are a million factors working against lower income members of American society. Making it harder for us to vote is but one of them.

 

edit: Yes, I'm aware you need photo ID to get a job or use many government services. Lucky for me, I was able to obtain one before my situation soured to the point it is today. Can you say the same for many others in poverty? No.

[Estonian dude]

Lost my phone to Icelandic horizontal rain.

[Arceus]

Lost my phone to Icelandic horizontal rain.

Would that be a flood or...?

[Estonian dude]

Raining horizontally cause of the winds.

[RpgGamer]

Americans being unable to vote due to financial situation is a minority but even if its only 2% of the population in total I think that's grounds enough to do something about it. 2% (in theory) is enough to sway the polls one way or the other. The real oppressive nature of voting in america isn't just voter fraud and punishing the disadvantaged its the amount of apathy it generates from doing so. Yes some people are directly affected by not having an ID to vote but for every one of those people there's dozens of people who dont vote at all because they dont like the system

[muggiwhplar]

am I the only one who goes out of his way to remain blissfully ignorant about politics :D

[RpgGamer]

I did that for a while but then I decided I should care about things that could dramatically alter my future

[Major Dash]

am I the only one who goes out of his way to remain blissfully ignorant about politics :D

 

 

I have done my best to ignore all posts from my friends who spam the Bernie Sanders (because who posts pro-Hillary or pro-Trump stuff on Facebook?)political bullshit in my feed. Although, I have enjoyed watching some of Trump's antics.

[Arceus]

Trump is somehow up to 32% though...

[obfuscator]

I'm not actually surprised trump is doing that well. The rest of the republican field is pretty bland.

 

Luckily I'm not American, so I don't have to choose...but if it came down to Trump vs. Sanders for president I would really struggle.

[Major Dash]

What about Hillary vs Trump?

[Alg]

I did that for a while but then I decided I should care about things that could dramatically alter my future

I did the same before finding out that it was actually pretty interesting. I'd go as far as to say enjoyable, if not for the fact that 'objectively wrong about basic science' would be a vast improvement for a lot of politicians.

[Arceus]

 

I did that for a while but then I decided I should care about things that could dramatically alter my future

I did the same before finding out that it was actually pretty interesting. I'd go as far as to say enjoyable, if not for the fact that 'objectively wrong about basic science' would be a vast improvement for a lot of politicians.

 

It's been so entertaining this season that you would be missing out by not following it :lol:.

[muggiwhplar]

I did that for a while but then I decided I should care about things that could dramatically alter my future

 

eh that's irrelevant to me since afaik I have no control over what goes on in the world of politics, so there's no point in worrying about it. better to worry about the things I can personally control myself w/o having to influence other people

[Noxx]

am I the only one who goes out of his way to remain blissfully ignorant   :D

FTFY

[muggiwhplar]

 

am I the only one who goes out of his way to remain blissfully ignorant   :D

FTFY

 

 

shieeeeet u got me

[obfuscator]

What about Hillary vs Trump?

 

I probably wouldn't vote at all.

 

eh that's irrelevant to me since afaik I have no control over what goes on in the world of politics, so there's no point in worrying about it. better to worry about the things I can personally control myself w/o having to influence other people

I don't know if it's fair to say you have NO control. Extremely minimal control, sure (at least from a single vote perspective). When you add in the effect you can have from volunteering/campaigning/running, it can be significant.

[muggiwhplar]

 

eh that's irrelevant to me since afaik I have no control over what goes on in the world of politics, so there's no point in worrying about it. better to worry about the things I can personally control myself w/o having to influence other people

I don't know if it's fair to say you have NO control. Extremely minimal control, sure (at least from a single vote perspective). When you add in the effect you can have from volunteering/campaigning/running, it can be significant.

Extremely minimal, yeah, that's my point. I'd draw the opposite conclusion as you, though... when you factor in volunteering and campaigning, you, as an individual, have a very insignificant amount of control.

 

When it comes to anything you want out of life, there's direct options and indirect options to pursue what you want. Direct options mean that you can achieve what you want by yourself. Indirect options mean you have to make someone else do what is necessary to get what you want.

 

If you feel that taxes are too high, an indirect option would be to start a campaign to lower taxes. A direct option would be to do a bit of research and look for ways to avoid having to pay them.

 

Or if you join a club and its rules and activities change such that you no longer enjoy the club, you can try to change the minds of enough members such that the club returns to its previously enjoyable conditions (indirect)... or you can just quit the club to find a better one (direct)

 

The bottom line is: whenever you join a group in hopes of getting something you want, you're pursuing an indirect option. You're hoping that the other people in the group will all act in ways that will benefit you. But since each of the group's members has their own individual goals and their own means of achieving those goals, the result will never simply be a multiplication of your own strength and personal interests

 

So yeah... that's why I look for solutions to obstacles on my own rather than trying to join or organize a group to solve them :P

[obfuscator]

Extremely minimal, yeah, that's my point. I'd draw the opposite conclusion as you, though... when you factor in volunteering and campaigning, you, as an individual, have a very insignificant amount of control.

I basically agree, but there are occasions where you can make a big difference. For example, one guy I know of started a campaign to win a specific riding for a political party in our last federal election and it ended up going over (and it was a pretty close race). Without his specific campaign and outreach it could well have gone the other way.

 

So it is minimal, but individuals can and do make a difference sometimes.

 

When it comes to anything you want out of life, there's direct options and indirect options to pursue what you want. Direct options mean that you can achieve what you want by yourself. Indirect options mean you have to make someone else do what is necessary to get what you want.

 

If you feel that taxes are too high, an indirect option would be to start a campaign to lower taxes. A direct option would be to do a bit of research and look for ways to avoid having to pay them.

Sure. But working on direct options doesn't preclude you from working on indirect ones as well.

 

Or if you join a club and its rules and activities change such that you no longer enjoy the club, you can try to change the minds of enough members such that the club returns to its previously enjoyable conditions (indirect)... or you can just quit the club to find a better one (direct)

 

The bottom line is: whenever you join a group in hopes of getting something you want, you're pursuing an indirect option. You're hoping that the other people in the group will all act in ways that will benefit you. But since each of the group's members has their own individual goals and their own means of achieving those goals, the result will never simply be a multiplication of your own strength and personal interests

You're right, but the analogy isn't perfect. To complete the analogy: You HAVE to be a member of a club (live in a country) and MUST conform to the rules of club or force will be used against you (which will significantly decrease your personal happiness, most likely). In addition, changing clubs cannot be done without some effort, and many clubs have major disadvantages compared to the club you were originally in.

 

So, if one makes the decision that their current club is their best option, they can still have an active interest in improving it.

 

So yeah... that's why I look for solutions to obstacles on my own rather than trying to join or organize a group to solve them :P

See above. Just because one is active politically doesn't mean they don't also actively make changes to their life to better it.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

I care a fair bit about a bunch of different issues (politically speaking), so I take some interest in politics (including occasional activism of sorts). However, the majority of these things will not be personally detrimental to my life one way or another. If it gets to the point that a political decision is made that would have a substantial negative effect on my life, I would gladly take the direct option (of moving, essentially). There are a few things I can think of that would cause me to do that.

 

However, there are some things that would not be a major enough inconvenience on my life to warrant leaving the country or province (the club), but would still detract from my personal freedom (and happiness by extension). In these cases, where direct action is not appropriate, I take indirect action as a less effective but still potentially useful alternative.

[muggiwhplar]

 

Extremely minimal, yeah, that's my point. I'd draw the opposite conclusion as you, though... when you factor in volunteering and campaigning, you, as an individual, have a very insignificant amount of control.

I basically agree, but there are occasions where you can make a big difference. For example, one guy I know of started a campaign to win a specific riding for a political party in our last federal election and it ended up going over (and it was a pretty close race). Without his specific campaign and outreach it could well have gone the other way.

 

So it is minimal, but individuals can and do make a difference sometimes.

 

When it comes to anything you want out of life, there's direct options and indirect options to pursue what you want. Direct options mean that you can achieve what you want by yourself. Indirect options mean you have to make someone else do what is necessary to get what you want.

 

If you feel that taxes are too high, an indirect option would be to start a campaign to lower taxes. A direct option would be to do a bit of research and look for ways to avoid having to pay them.

Sure. But working on direct options doesn't preclude you from working on indirect ones as well.

 

Or if you join a club and its rules and activities change such that you no longer enjoy the club, you can try to change the minds of enough members such that the club returns to its previously enjoyable conditions (indirect)... or you can just quit the club to find a better one (direct)

 

The bottom line is: whenever you join a group in hopes of getting something you want, you're pursuing an indirect option. You're hoping that the other people in the group will all act in ways that will benefit you. But since each of the group's members has their own individual goals and their own means of achieving those goals, the result will never simply be a multiplication of your own strength and personal interests

You're right, but the analogy isn't perfect. To complete the analogy: You HAVE to be a member of a club (live in a country) and MUST conform to the rules of club or force will be used against you (which will significantly decrease your personal happiness, most likely). In addition, changing clubs cannot be done without some effort, and many clubs have major disadvantages compared to the club you were originally in.

 

So, if one makes the decision that their current club is their best option, they can still have an active interest in improving it.

 

So yeah... that's why I look for solutions to obstacles on my own rather than trying to join or organize a group to solve them :P

See above. Just because one is active politically doesn't mean they don't also actively make changes to their life to better it.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

I care a fair bit about a bunch of different issues (politically speaking), so I take some interest in politics (including occasional activism of sorts). However, the majority of these things will not be personally detrimental to my life one way or another. If it gets to the point that a political decision is made that would have a substantial negative effect on my life, I would gladly take the direct option (of moving, essentially). There are a few things I can think of that would cause me to do that.

 

However, there are some things that would not be a major enough inconvenience on my life to warrant leaving the country or province (the club), but would still detract from my personal freedom (and happiness by extension). In these cases, where direct action is not appropriate, I take indirect action as a less effective but still potentially useful alternative.

 

 

Yeah I more or less agree with everything you said. I'd argue that you're in the minority here as well, though... it seems that most people who become invested in politics never give any attention to their direct options. They view indirect options as their only options... and then they end up unhappy as a result. And then if someone comes along and offers them some direct options, they get pissed off :lol:

[RpgGamer]

Believe me Muggiw, if Trump wins the primary I'm applying for a passport. If he wins presidency I'm leaving this country before he burns it to the ground

[muggiwhplar]

I have a feeling that things really won't be that much different from how they are right now, regardless of who's elected. Though I don't think Trump actually wants to be president-- he's just enjoying all this attention

[Skull]

So, I think I may have Tourette's Syndrome.  I've kinda though it was possible for a few years, but I've only become more convinced with time.  I don't shout obscene words or anything like that but I have a number of physical compulsions/tics.  They haven't always been the same tics consistently for my whole life, but I've had some sort of tic for the past decade or so.  Usually pretty mild compared to most of the examples I've seen, but otherwise very similar.

 

Most recently, it's been a breathing/throat clearing thing.  When I first noticed it I attributed it to my smoking (it was during a period of time that I was smoking a lot of hand rolled unfiltered cigarettes), but it's been persistent since then despite me changing my habits.

 

Anyways, I just though it was interesting.  Fair chance I'm being a hypochondriac but who knows.  I don't really care enough to try to find out for sure, but next time I go to a doctor maybe I'll mention it.

[Bonez899]

Today i kissed some british girl at a club in reno

For whatever reason when I saw the preview in my email inbox both s's were l's. Really changes the tone of the post.

[Estonian dude]

Got 2 new suits today.

I have worn out the one I got for graduation in less than 2 years.