Today...

[Hedgehog]

I've been trying to drink more tea but I keep over brewing it and it's bitter

 

Also since we're talking about middle school emo bands, what is the one song where the verses sound vaguely like Where is my mind? I swear it exists but I haven't heard it in years

[Tesset]

 

Edit: Ughhhh. Finally found the drivers on ASUS's website, and I have the most up to date ones. That sucks.

I've found that I have better luck fetching video drivers from AMD/NVidia rather than system builders or video card manufacturers, especially on older hardware.

 

I checked there first, and NVIDIA didn't have the drivers for my card.

 

I ended up just downgrading to the previous version again, which lost some work, but whatever I guess.

[RpgGamer]

I've been trying to drink more tea but I keep over brewing it and it's bitter

 

Also since we're talking about middle school emo bands, what is the one song where the verses sound vaguely like Where is my mind? I swear it exists but I haven't heard it in years

Gonna have to give me another hint but I'm convinced I can get it

[Hedgehog]

I feel like it was by panic at the disco or the all american rejects

[Arceus]

I was watching one of the speakers at the Republican Convention last night and he referred to universities as "Democratic indoctrination camps." I think it's been a while since I laughed that hard.

[Lower Levelled]

Can't wait till Trump writes a tell all

[RpgGamer]

Bo jack horseman season 3 is out. Hope it lives up to my expectations

[Randox]

I found Star Trek: Enterprise on Netflix, been watching that for the past few days. I'd forgotten how many of the episodes I managed to catch when the show first came out, but it's been so long they're almost new again anyway. I may re-evaluate my stances at season 3 or 4, since I do vaguely remember where this is all headed, but for now, I do really like it. I feel like the diplomacy and uncertainty in your own actions was done really well in Enterprise, better than I remember the other series' being.

[Veiva]

How does the 'pay gap' not exist? The data from the BLS definitely shows women only making more than women proportionately in four jobs (if I recall correctly) out of hundreds where there is enough data...

[obfuscator]

How does the 'pay gap' not exist? The data from the BLS definitely shows women only making more than women proportionately in four jobs (if I recall correctly) out of hundreds where there is enough data...

It exists to some extent, but not to the .7c to the dollar ratio that's thrown around. When you account for the fact that women tend to start working later, retire earlier, take more time off, are less likely to work overtime, and choose to work in lower-paying fields, the gap is more like .96-96 cents on the dollar (at least in western countries), which isn't statistically significant.

 

As far universities being "democratic indoctrination camps", I agree that's pretty hyperbolic, but there's a lot of proof that universities in general are more left leaning than right.

[Veiva]

[citation needed]

 

I have never found found a study that clearly provides its data, accounts for all those factors, and explains its methods then concludes the wage gap is insignificant.

 

Also, things like time off, hours worked, etc are meaningless in salaried positions, of which there are many. E.g., working 40 hours a week is better than 60 hours a week if you are paid $2,000 a month. And how do women retiring earlier impact the wage gap...? Normally, when you retire, you either aren't working or are working for recreational reasons...

 

The BLS comparison compares jobs by a finer category, and although there can be variance within said category, it's not, by any means, comparing cashiers to bankers.

 

The idea that women earn less than men because women are somehow different than men when it comes to employment and there is no greater problem is, in my opinion, identical to the idea that minorities are jailed more than non-minorities because [that's the way it is / minorities commit more crimes] and there's no greater reason based on their status as a minority.

[muggiwhplar]

[citation needed]

 

I have never found found a study that clearly provides its data, accounts for all those factors, and explains its methods then concludes the wage gap is insignificant.

 

Also, things like time off, hours worked, etc are meaningless in salaried positions, of which there are many. E.g., working 40 hours a week is better than 60 hours a week if you are paid $2,000 a month. And how do women retiring earlier impact the wage gap...? Normally, when you retire, you either aren't working or are working for recreational reasons...

 

The BLS comparison compares jobs by a finer category, and although there can be variance within said category, it's not, by any means, comparing cashiers to bankers.

 

The idea that women earn less than men because women are somehow different than men when it comes to employment and there is no greater problem is, in my opinion, identical to the idea that minorities are jailed more than non-minorities because [that's the way it is / minorities commit more crimes] and there's no greater reason based on their status as a minority.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. >_> Are you trying to argue that there's an equal number of women in STEM fields than men? That there's an equal number of male teachers as female teachers? That women working the exact same jobs as their male coworkers are getting paid less for doing the exact same work?

[Arceus]

 

I was watching one of the speakers at the Republican Convention last night and he referred to universities as "Democratic indoctrination camps." I think it's been a while since I laughed that hard.

I think that's "Democratic indoctrination camps" is a shitty phrase but I do feel a tinge of annoyance about having been forced to pay for a class that's required for graduation to hear someone go on about the pay gap or microaggressions and spread beliefs about these topics that don't align with the actual data because it fits a narrative they're trying to promote.

 

I get it these professors are passionate about these topics but I think its absolutely scummy that at, at least my university it is a graduation requirement to take several of these classes, even as a transfer student.

 

That is true, a major chunk of the liberal arts education requires are essentially funneling money over to those departments by forcing students to sit in those classes. They couldn't care less about what the instructor's actual viewpoints are.

 

 

 

 

How does the 'pay gap' not exist? The data from the BLS definitely shows women only making more than women proportionately in four jobs (if I recall correctly) out of hundreds where there is enough data...

It exists to some extent, but not to the .7c to the dollar ratio that's thrown around. When you account for the fact that women tend to start working later, retire earlier, take more time off, are less likely to work overtime, and choose to work in lower-paying fields, the gap is more like .96-96 cents on the dollar (at least in western countries), which isn't statistically significant.

 

As far universities being "democratic indoctrination camps", I agree that's pretty hyperbolic, but there's a lot of proof that universities in general are more left leaning than right.

 

 

Sure but having an opinion or generally leaning a different way is quite different from implying that they are forcing that down everyone's throat. I would argue that it's not a coincidence either - I don't know how any educated person following recent news or politics can argue that they are doing anything productive these days.

[Veiva]

 

[citation needed]

 

I have never found found a study that clearly provides its data, accounts for all those factors, and explains its methods then concludes the wage gap is insignificant.

 

Also, things like time off, hours worked, etc are meaningless in salaried positions, of which there are many. E.g., working 40 hours a week is better than 60 hours a week if you are paid $2,000 a month. And how do women retiring earlier impact the wage gap...? Normally, when you retire, you either aren't working or are working for recreational reasons...

 

The BLS comparison compares jobs by a finer category, and although there can be variance within said category, it's not, by any means, comparing cashiers to bankers.

 

The idea that women earn less than men because women are somehow different than men when it comes to employment and there is no greater problem is, in my opinion, identical to the idea that minorities are jailed more than non-minorities because [that's the way it is / minorities commit more crimes] and there's no greater reason based on their status as a minority.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. >_> Are you trying to argue that there's an equal number of women in STEM fields than men? That there's an equal number of male teachers as female teachers? That women working the exact same jobs as their male coworkers are getting paid less for doing the exact same work?

 

The data compares jobs with the same 'category'. It is not comparing teachers to STEM.

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

[citation needed]

 

I have never found found a study that clearly provides its data, accounts for all those factors, and explains its methods then concludes the wage gap is insignificant.

 

Also, things like time off, hours worked, etc are meaningless in salaried positions, of which there are many. E.g., working 40 hours a week is better than 60 hours a week if you are paid $2,000 a month. And how do women retiring earlier impact the wage gap...? Normally, when you retire, you either aren't working or are working for recreational reasons...

 

The BLS comparison compares jobs by a finer category, and although there can be variance within said category, it's not, by any means, comparing cashiers to bankers.

 

The idea that women earn less than men because women are somehow different than men when it comes to employment and there is no greater problem is, in my opinion, identical to the idea that minorities are jailed more than non-minorities because [that's the way it is / minorities commit more crimes] and there's no greater reason based on their status as a minority.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. >_> Are you trying to argue that there's an equal number of women in STEM fields than men? That there's an equal number of male teachers as female teachers? That women working the exact same jobs as their male coworkers are getting paid less for doing the exact same work?

 

The data compares jobs with the same 'category'. It is not comparing teachers to STEM.

 

 

What data?

[Major Dash]

It wouldn't have anything to do with men being able to do those jobs better than women would it?

[RpgGamer]

My college professors were definitely all mostly if not far left viewed, but I had a lot of conservative right wing high school teachers so I feel like I got a fairly balanced look into politics. Hence why I'm neither.

[Veiva]

What data?

The BLS, for one: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-earnings/archive/womensearnings_2009.pdf

 

See pages 9 through 34. There will be variance within each category, of course, but it's not like comparing a teacher in a rural Alabama public school alongside oil workers in the Dakotas or hedge funds managers in New York...

[muggiwhplar]

 

What data?

The BLS, for one: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-earnings/archive/womensearnings_2009.pdf

 

See pages 9 through 34. There will be variance within each category, of course, but it's not like comparing a teacher in a rural Alabama public school alongside oil workers in the Dakotas or hedge funds managers in New York...

 

 

That page doesn't load for me >_>

[Riku3220]

Women warning 77 cents is a misleading stat that pulls from all full time workers from cashiers to CEOs. The actual gap is more like 93-95 cents. In non-salaried jobs it's explained by taking more time off or retiring earlier and everything else said in the thread. In salaried jobs it's explained by women being less likely to negotiate for a higher wage or raises.

 

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2013/jul/15/terry-mcauliffe/mcauliffe-says-women-earn-77-percent-mens-pay-same/

 

http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-the-earnings-of-women-and-men-one-year-after-college-graduation.pdf (pages 20 and 34)

 

http://www.ne.su.se/polopoly_fs/1.99257.1346412310!/menu/standard/file/anna_sandberg.pdf

[Veiva]

How does retiring early account for income discrepancies while employed? It's not like you continue working for Company X when you retire from Company X... Generally, the idea is to stop working, or work in a recreational/social sense. And by no means can you consider someone working full-time to make ends meet 'retired' even if they are collecting a pension or social security.

 

Also, I think the requirement of 'the same job' is misleading. Depending on how finely you want to go, no two jobs are 'the same' even within the same company or group. Bob and Joe working in Microsoft on Excel as 'Senior Engineers' will have different requirements and different roles that could be argued to explain any pay gaps, for example.

 

I definitely agree that women more frequently working certain jobs with lower pay regardless of gender, women tending to be less likely to negotiate, and having more family-orientated social roles results result in women receiving less pay. However, that's not a solution. For a poor metaphor... A cancer patient sees a doctor. She says, 'Doctor, I'm sick.' The doctor does some tests, comes back, and says, 'Well, you have a malignant growth in your lungs, probably caused by exposure to carcinogens. Thank you and have a nice day.' That's not a reasonable response from the doctor, and neither is saying women make less because X reasons a reasonable response.

 

But the entire capitalistic economic platform is a disgrace. The discussion a page back about working 50+ hours or working under 40 hours, made me sick. And then you have free market economists and liberatarians and neoliberals who would gladly relax regulations for corporations while hypocritically restricting the rights of workers to protect themselves (i.e., unions)... It's all a mess, and the pay gap is one of many grievances caused by these destructive policies.

 

 

 

What data?

The BLS, for one: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-earnings/archive/womensearnings_2009.pdf

 

See pages 9 through 34. There will be variance within each category, of course, but it's not like comparing a teacher in a rural Alabama public school alongside oil workers in the Dakotas or hedge funds managers in New York...

 

That page doesn't load for me >_>

 

Maybe because it's a 2 MB PDF. Are you on a mobile browser?

[Major Dash]

I don't follow you. You say that women not sticking up for themselves, taking more time off for family, and taking worse jobs is 'not a solution'? The solution to that is that women need to be better negotiators, put aside family, and not settle for lower paying jobs. How is that the fault of the corporations or the big bad evil men running them?

[Bonez899]

How does retiring early account for income discrepancies while employed? It's not like you continue working for Company X when you retire from Company X... Generally, the idea is to stop working, or work in a recreational/social sense. And by no means can you consider someone working full-time to make ends meet 'retired' even if they are collecting a pension or social security.

 

I think the argument here is that women retire earlier meaning that they may miss out on promotions or pay increases that a person who doesn't retire earlier might be entitled to. Thus comparatively lowering the pay for women of the same category vs men in that category.

[Veiva]

I don't follow you. You say that women not sticking up for themselves, taking more time off for family, and taking worse jobs is 'not a solution'? The solution to that is that women need to be better negotiators, put aside family, and not settle for lower paying jobs. How is that the fault of the corporations or the big bad evil men running them?

Well I'm glad you can read things I did not write by any means but ok.

[Alg]

It wouldn't have anything to do with men being able to do those jobs better than women would it?

it's 2016.

 

do people really still believe this in 2016

 

are we really disputing the idea of inherent cultural sexism in a thread where someone actually made this argument in complete seriousness in 2016

 

This is maybe the part where we should step back and figure out what they're arguing about, maybe