Jagex - manipulation of the GE?

[tiggehdroih]

[removed]

[Triquos]

Player A sells the 25k nature runes at the minimum price.

 

Player B buys the 25k nature runes at the maximum price, with 0 refund.

 

 

 

JaGex could have just taken a 10% windfall out of the game? Neither player knows they have actually not been able to get the best transaction possible.

 

 

 

I could quite easily believe that, and I do think that happens.

 

 

 

If you bought 40 zerker necklaces and you managed to buy 20 with, say, 800k money back, you don't get the rest of the money when you eventually buy the rest of the necklaces. So where is the rest of the *potential* money going? Down the drain I reckon :x I think you're right.

[Lakitsym_Rose]

Well they do cap how low certain items can be, the pouches that are good for alching cap at 280 GP below their alch price at minimum, because Natures were originally 300. And they don't lower, for a fact, because they are one of the main items people buy to alch because Yew Longs are capped at 100 per four hours.

 

 

 

Basically, Jagex isn't letting them lower anymore, this is the same with several items, you can check yourself.

[Fishies]

A few weeks ago, you could make 200k/hour or more easily, just by cleaning marrentil herbs. Buy grimy at med price, sell clean at max. They sold within a few minutes, or instantly. However, the price dropped down to ~50. They were selling at max easily, so I doubt a lack of player demand made the clean herbs drop 200% so quickly.

 

 

 

Obviously, Jagex hates it when people make a profit while training skills.

[Residua]

Price manipulation, by Jagex, is very plausable and I believe that it occurs.

[magmaguard3]

I don't see a reason for jagex to hate making money off skills. :?

[Residua]

I don't see a reason for jagex to hate making money off skills. :?

 

 

 

They don't, do they?

 

 

 

Isn't that how they originally encouraged people to make money?

[child_sycopath]

I have thought this since the start, The one reason i dont like the grand exchange is because we no longer have Full Controll of the market. If JaGEx wants they could easilly lower the price of All godswords/ god armor Just to lower GWD intrest.

 

 

 

I dont mind JaGEx Meddling when its needed one example i can think of now would be if they changed the price of pure essence & runes, Increase runes, Decrease ess..

 

 

 

Although there could be perfectly logical explinations for all these things,

 

• 
   
  Higher ess prices - All Autoers are gone, Making less ess come out of it.
   
  Lower Nature Prices - Abyss is easier since PKing is gone, Graahks make it a whole lot easier, There are also better ways to train magic.
   
  Lowering GWD stuff prices - More people are GWDing, Alot of people are getting they're skills up just for GWD

[ajk822]

I have to agree on the potions thing, almost all of them are impossible to buy and less than max.

[Randox]

Under the assumption that groups of players are buying out certain items to raise the price than it would be safe to say that Jagex has/will intervene. They said that they would step in if there was price manipulation, well orgainising large groups of players to raise a price is price manipulation and so we can all assume that there will be intervention.

[Viv]

i think it may be happening with runecraft

 

 

 

i mean the new minigame doesnt require ess so how is Pure ess rising :l

 

 

 

and natures are going extremely low for no reason i know tabs but i mean they cant be that widely used

 

 

 

and the ge buying limits some are way too low! 100 swamp lizards at a time just to raise summon is such a pain :(

 

 

 

oh and i got 4 task of abby demons yesterday 2 whips =) and 94-98 i only got 3 whips so maybe drop rates are increased or its my ring of wealth.

[Revenga]

I don't see a reason for jagex to hate making money off skills. :?

 

 

 

They don't, do they?

 

 

 

Isn't that how they originally encouraged people to make money?

 

 

 

The sad part is they also got rid of making money off no skills. So how are we suppose to make money now? Good going Jagex, now all I can do is kill stuff. What if I didn't want to do that? :(

[Death_Dude74]

The increased drop rate argument has no basis in fact. I strongly urge other readers not to take that argument into account because no statistics have been provided: people get lucky, and people never get a whip in 5000 abyssal demon kills.

 

 

 

As for the GE economics, the player who has the second offer in gets the preferential treatment (if they put in an offer to buy bread at 50 coins, but 1 hour before a player had put in an offer to sell bread at 49 coins, then the player who bought second would end up paying 49--not 50--coins.

 

 

 

This is based logically on trading before the GE: if I intended to buy a cannon for 500k, but another player was already saying he'd sell for 400k, then I'd just buy the cannon for 400k. The same scenario works in reverse: if I wanted to sell my cannon for 400k, but another player was already offering 500k, then I'd obviously sell it for 500k.

 

 

 

 

 

Without the five hour limit, players could easily buy and sell rapidly to transfer money to the other:

 

 

 

The limit on buying/selling items is imposed for a reason: to limit Real-World-Money Traders (RWT) from getting around the 30k per 15 minute limit. Let's say player A puts up an offer to sell 5000 slimey eels up for maximum price. However, because no real player is interested in buying slimey eels, player A can pay a player with 'real world' money to buy up his offer. After the RWT buys all the slimey eels, he then could then offer the eels at minimum, which player A buys. Player A the begins from the beginning, offering all the eels at maximum. However, this isn't possible because players can not sell items they just bought until the five hours are up. This situation requires only a little known/used item in which it is likely that only a few players are selling and no one is buying.

 

 

 

As for trading limits, they're imposed to limit one player from entirely controlling the market and/or soaking up all the supply at one time. However, this system is done in an entirely reasonable way: How are you possibly going to use up all 25,000 pure essence in six hours time? It should also be mentioned that the average player does NOT buy 25,000 essence often, making it unreasonable to suggest that the limit on the amount of items a player can buy would affect the price.

 

 

 

Imo, the real reason pure essence is rising is because there are less bots/sweatshop workers mining it and because of continued demand from RCers.

 

 

 

The RSOF's 'answer' to his herblore dilemma is absurd. I really can't make any sense of it.

 

 

 

To explain the potion price situation, I would need more time than I have right now, and more economic experience. However, I'm sure someone can here is willing to explain the herblore market.

 

 

 

 

 

And Revenga, you are flat out wrong about not being able to make money without killing things. If you don't want to kill things but do want money, I highly recommend:

 

 

 

Woodcutting yews

 

Mining gold ore

 

Crafting battlestaves

 

Smithing steel bars

 

Hunting chinchompas

 

Cooking tuna potatoes

[Resonae]

its true...

 

 

 

I was selling airs at min price, someone was buying at min, transaction didn't go through...

 

They might also have been raising the price of essence since before the guild came out.

 

Green dragonhide bodies used to be great for alching for profit, now not so much, plus it's getting "hard" to buy large amounts (more like literally impossible)

[tuggernongy]

I can explain the potions market, just dont have the time. So, a shortened version...

 

 

 

People wanting potions want 4 dose potions, want to buy right away, offer max. (think people wanting to gwd, slay, whatever). People wanting to clean out banks often have 1/2 dose potions they dont need, and sell minimum for the quick sale. People doing herblore sell 3 dose pots in bulk, and what the 3 dose potions are traded at is generally a good idea of the price.

 

 

 

For those that havent noticed, the potion market runs off a cost per dose.

 

 

 

(16:31:05) <[AO]RuneScript> *** [ GE ]: Results: 6 | [M] Super attack(1): 113gp (Today: +5gp) | [M] Super attack(2): 227gp (Today: +11gp) | [M] Super attack(3): 341gp (Today: +17gp) | [M] Super attack(4): 454gp (Today: +22gp)

 

 

 

So people are often trading certain pots at max or minimum, yet the price may not change all that much as the net effect is very little across the whole market for that potion. Which is cool, jagex ignores the cost of the vials with potions, if you want to mix potions into 4 doses and sell, you not only make the markup selling high buying low, but also have the leftover vials. ;)

 

 

 

Hope that helps explain how herblore market works. The whole RSOF post reads paranoid ramble to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Green dragonhide bodies used to be great for alching for profit, now not so much, plus it's getting "hard" to buy large amounts (more like literally impossible)

 

 

 

People realised there was nice profit buying pieces and selling as a set on GE, so the price rose.... *rolls eyes*

 

 

 

With monster drops, it's random. You need a huge sample size to really say anything has changed, people get lucky all the time.

 

 

 

i mean the new minigame doesnt require ess so how is Pure ess rising :l

 

 

 

Price speculators.

 

 

 

I was selling airs at min price, someone was buying at min, transaction didn't go through...

 

 

 

Someone had hit their trade limit.

[acenator]

@ Death_Dude74: I agree with your first paragraph. There is no way to determine if drop rates have truly changed.

 

 

 

I also have to say that I have seen the ideas expressed in your second and third paragraphs at work, but it would also be possible for Jagex to still remove money from the game via the GE without our knowing. How are any of us to know if the person on the other side of the trade didn't put in their offer originally for 48 coins and Jagex is taking out 1 coin per bread bought? It's simple: we can't because there simply isn't any way for us to check and see if this is happening or not.

 

 

 

Your views on the 5 hour limit are also legitimate and I see the merit in them, but, as pointed out already, most people don't understand these limits because most people simply don't read the Knowledge Base and/or go on the forums (both the RSOF and fansites) where they could find out about these things. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that a large portion of players don't even read most newsposts or the messages given upon login. If Jagex is going to impose limits like these, then they need to seriously think about better ways to inform people of them rather than just sitting back and watching people wonder why their offers aren't going through.

 

 

 

The reason for P ess's initial rise after the Dec. 10 and Jan. 2 updates was because of the loss of autoers and the massive amount of speculation going on because of it. The most recent price rise was probably due to people trying out the new altar tabs. This rise, however, has officially ended and is being reversed due to the end of the initial hype and the fact that people can now get up to 1k ess in 20 mins or less via the new minigame (where they also gain RC experience). However, the increase in ess production is also being matched with an increase in rune production via the new tele tabs. It will be very interesting to see how all this plays out (especially if Jagex really is manipulating prices to reduce profitability).

 

 

 

As for the herblore "dilemma," I have also heard similar stories about quite a few different items and I wouldn't rule what the OP is saying. I do, however, see a possible increase in herblore profitability in the near future with the release of the "PK worlds" where PKers begin to buy up super sets and other such potions helpful in combat and push prices back up. Don't get your hopes up too high, though; increased profitability could just lead to more people raisning herblore and driving ingredient prices higher to cancel out the potion price increase. Again, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out (especially if Jagex really is manipulating prices to reduce profitability).

 

 

 

Also, Revenga was talking about making money via refining skills rather than gathering skills. Smithing platebodies and selling them used to be much more profitable than smelting bars and selling those, for example (many such changes came with the introduction of skillcapes). His comments were [likely] about how, in order to profit off of skilling nowadays, you are most likely going to have to gather your own supplies rather than just buying them.

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm not saying that anyone's views are incorrect, but that it's possible that Jagex really is doing what the OP is suggesting and that we need to be careful about what we believe at this point.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm leaning towards the idea that Jagex is simply trying to take out ways to make money quickly. Just look at the price ceilings/floors and dependencies (like those shown in the herblore market). The fact that Jagex isn't allowing prices of many items to fall low enough to be alched/sold to stores for profit is enough evidence. Not to mention the lack of concern for the stagnant phat, 3rd age, etc. prices.

[Fishies]

A few weeks ago, you could make 200k/hour or more easily, just by cleaning marrentil herbs. Buy grimy at med price, sell clean at max. They sold within a few minutes, or instantly. However, the price dropped down to ~50. They were selling at max easily, so I doubt a lack of player demand made the clean herbs drop 200% so quickly.

 

 

 

Obviously, Jagex hates it when people make a profit while training skills.

 

 

 

Oh wait! I get it now! Jagex made the assumption that people were manipulating herb prices! :wall:

 

 

 

I guess Herblore is going to stay my lowest skill.

[BiJay]

i think it may be happening with runecraft

 

 

 

i mean the new minigame doesnt require ess so how is Pure ess rising :l

 

 

 

and natures are going extremely low for no reason i know tabs but i mean they cant be that widely used

 

There are people who don't have 50+ RC and they want to raise their RC level to enjoy the new guild. They are buying rune/pure essences and they are selling nature runes. So its a higher demand for essences and a higher supply of nature runes. So it's all right.

[Perakp]

There is no way to proove any of that right or wrong, unless Jagex comes out with "sry we manipulated your eXchanges"- thread.

 

 

 

The number of items going through GE is too immense for price manipulators to have a noticeable effect on prices. I believe that most of the time the succesful merchanters rake in huge profits because they got lucky, not because their clan "bought all the items in the market". Anyone want to guess how many GS's or full sara sets there are in RS? I don't.

[Animaslayer]

Player A sells the 25k nature runes at the minimum price.

 

Player B buys the 25k nature runes at the maximum price, with 0 refund.

 

 

 

JaGex could have just taken a 10% windfall out of the game? Neither player knows they have actually not been able to get the best transaction possible.

 

 

 

I could quite easily believe that, and I do think that happens.

 

 

 

If you bought 40 zerker necklaces and you managed to buy 20 with, say, 800k money back, you don't get the rest of the money when you eventually buy the rest of the necklaces. So where is the rest of the *potential* money going? Down the drain I reckon :x I think you're right.

 

 

 

sometimes the other party gets it too

[HoMM88]

No discussion value here.

 

 

 

Jagex will change the prices if needed.

 

 

 

They are not increasing drop rates. If you think they want to make rich people poor, ur a total noob.

[ItemLendingInc]

The GE is the worst update in the game period.

 

 

 

Jagex can control how much items cost, you can't sell phats anymore or anything else that use to cost big money. If you need a large amount of items you cannot buy them because Jaqex has limited the amount you can buy on GE. If you want items right now you can't pay crazy amounts for them because of the trade restrictions.

 

 

 

The game no longer allows free trade, Jaqex controls what you can pay and the amount you can pay for ALL items. Some items they won't even let you buy on GE.

[Hobgoblinpie]

This is happening. Jagex set the maximum and minimum for each object, but the object can go up and down between those limits. For example, things that's market price is also it's highest price means that the item has reached it's highest value that has been set by Jagex. This could apply to Water runes (Market price and highest price is 16gp each). If an item's market price is also it's lowest price, that is the lowest value that it can go down to which has been set by Jagex. For example, when I was doing Barrows, Blood runes dropped to 275gp each. And they didnt go below that. If they could, they would have. Also, Spirit Terrorbirds are sitting at 326gp market price, and lowest price. Yet you can easily buy them for that. Which shows that Jagex are trying to minimise potential profit from those items.