"You attack first! No you attack first!"

[Huta]

"Well, I'm too poor to buy an Armadyl Godsword, so can you please use your whip instead?"

 

"Well, I chose not to train prayer, so you aren't allowed use it."

 

 

 

You gotta be kidding me. :roll:

 

 

 

On Topic:

 

Yes the skulling system needs to be fixed. I like the BH Skulling system, maybe pvp worlds could have something similar to this, without the wealth indicator.

 

 

 

I challenge you to find me a viable, effective p2p pure that doesn't have at the very least 44 or 52 prayer. Go on, do it.

 

 

 

I hate this "but the pures don't have prayer" argument, it's [developmentally delayed] and false.

 

 

 

13 prayer is statistically the best prayer for melee pures with 1 defense (all the way up until 99 strength)...It's amazing how few people know that. If you want a name, X Arikado X.

 

 

 

Good on paper, bad in practice.

[TheAncient]

(Sorry the 'nn' key doesn't work on this keyboard)

 

 

 

Nowadays p2p nelee pvp is just a KO fest. With AGS around 60N and iten lending the nost powerful nelee wep in the gane is accessible to even level 90's. I was three hit wearing full Barrows (I'n 130) by a 100 in D ned and granite body. Talk about overpowered.

 

 

 

In ny eyes nelee prot is (or should be) acceptable nowadays because otherwise there's just way too nuch luck involved in nelee pvp -- it's basically who pulls off the first 70 spec that wins. Granted, nelee vs nelee with prot on is sonewhat pointless (though you could argue against this; dharok's for exanple can still hit 50+ through pray, and GS still hits through pray like the whip hit nornally in its early days), which is why I advocate that people use nore hybriding in pvp. Hybrid is the nost fun anyway

[Grogthurk]

The best thing about the new pvp worlds is that a lot of the people who believe themselves to be the masters of pking 'strategy' wont step foot inside them.

 

 

 

Just for the record I reiterate; NOONE is whining about prayers that boost your stats. Alot of morons in this thread assume that their opponent has the magical ability to sense when someone is using boosting prayers and call them a noob for it.

 

 

 

It is NOT the boosting prayers. Super human strength, piety, whatever, noone cares if you use this. Nooone is whining if you choose to use these. Pures do not think your nooby for using boosting prayers just because their own pray level is one and they're too lazy to train it; most effective pures have 44 or 52 pray anyway. Pkers as a whole, not just pures, complain about using protection prayers. I really do fail to see why it is so difficult to comprehend this.

 

 

 

I do however lol at people thinking they are so unique,smart and special for figuring out how to use protect prays in pking. They act like it's a long lost secret strategy of war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I understand this, I have to disagree.

 

 

 

If I want to be an effective PK'r, I'm going to show my skills in all of my combat skills, including Prayer. If I see you use Melee, I'll switch attack style. The minute I limit myself to one combat style, is the minute I die pking.

[3hitm4g3u]

The best thing about the new pvp worlds is that a lot of the people who believe themselves to be the masters of pking 'strategy' wont step foot inside them.

 

 

 

Just for the record I reiterate; NOONE is whining about prayers that boost your stats. Alot of morons in this thread assume that their opponent has the magical ability to sense when someone is using boosting prayers and call them a noob for it.

 

 

 

It is NOT the boosting prayers. Super human strength, piety, whatever, noone cares if you use this. Nooone is whining if you choose to use these. Pures do not think your nooby for using boosting prayers just because their own pray level is one and they're too lazy to train it; most effective pures have 44 or 52 pray anyway. Pkers as a whole, not just pures, complain about using protection prayers. I really do fail to see why it is so difficult to comprehend this.

 

 

 

I do however lol at people thinking they are so unique,smart and special for figuring out how to use protect prays in pking. They act like it's a long lost secret strategy of war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I understand this, I have to disagree.

 

 

 

If I want to be an effective PK'r, I'm going to show my skills in all of my combat skills, including Prayer. If I see you use Melee, I'll switch attack style. The minute I limit myself to one combat style, is the minute I die pking.

 

 

 

Most pkers bring range anyway because of ancienters (or bring magic because they are ancienters).

 

 

 

"Well, I'm too poor to buy an Armadyl Godsword, so can you please use your whip instead?"

 

"Well, I chose not to train prayer, so you aren't allowed use it."

 

 

 

You gotta be kidding me. :roll:

 

 

 

On Topic:

 

Yes the skulling system needs to be fixed. I like the BH Skulling system, maybe pvp worlds could have something similar to this, without the wealth indicator.

 

 

 

I challenge you to find me a viable, effective p2p pure that doesn't have at the very least 44 or 52 prayer. Go on, do it.

 

 

 

I hate this "but the pures don't have prayer" argument, it's [developmentally delayed] and false.

 

 

 

13 prayer is statistically the best prayer for melee pures with 1 defense (all the way up until 99 strength)...It's amazing how few people know that. If you want a name, X Arikado X.

 

 

 

Unless you need the prayer to get ancients anyway, 1 is better then 13. 13 just turns into unneeded combat levels since it will last a grand total of 2 seconds against smite.

[xXCaBBaGeXx]

There's nothing wrong with defense, but in reality, less defense is usually better in pking. 99 att 99 str 70 def > 85 att 85 str 85 def by far! As far as protect prayers go, I always smack on protect from melee/range/mage after getting a kill to prevent getting pjed.

[brando13a]

The discussion isnt really 99 str 99 atk 70 def vs 85 rounded. I have to agree that once your defence is above average/barrows+ its more of a luxury than a requirement to train. And I also agree that the 99 str/attack would absolutly trump the extra 15 levels on the rounded players defence.

 

 

 

The larger discussion is pures with 1 def, vs someone with rounded combat stats. prayer can equal, and in that case the rounded player relies on defence more than offence because they are outmatched. Pures who dont realize that not everyone else who pk's is a pure- and then further assumes that they are "noobs" who know nothing about the game or how to pk- are the problem. people are pking the way they NEED to. complain all you want that people wont play YOUR 1 defence game, but it wont make a bit of difference, because they HAVE defence, and thus DONT have the highly boosted str/attack that a pure would. protect prayers are almost needed as a balancing factor.

 

 

 

It's been said before, that not everyone is the same. pures have hypothetical guns, and everyone else has some low grade body armor, the only balancing factor is that everyone else also has the chance to slap on a bullet proof vest when they please. This is, I suppose, human nature to hate difference- you dont comprehend that people arent acting out of spite for you, but out of their own mind's construct of what needs to be done, which is vastly different from what you need to do.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how to make it much more clear. A triangle isnt a circle, and neither object will fully understand the other. Simplest metaphor I can make currently, hopefully you can comprehend the meaning (aimed at the trolling pure)

[Huta]

The discussion isnt really 99 str 99 atk 70 def vs 85 rounded. I have to agree that once your defence is above average/barrows+ its more of a luxury than a requirement to train. And I also agree that the 99 str/attack would absolutly trump the extra 15 levels on the rounded players defence.

 

 

 

The larger discussion is pures with 1 def, vs someone with rounded combat stats. prayer can equal, and in that case the rounded player relies on defence more than offence because they are outmatched. Pures who dont realize that not everyone else who pk's is a pure- and then further assumes that they are "noobs" who know nothing about the game or how to pk- are the problem. people are pking the way they NEED to. complain all you want that people wont play YOUR 1 defence game, but it wont make a bit of difference, because they HAVE defence, and thus DONT have the highly boosted str/attack that a pure would. protect prayers are almost needed as a balancing factor.

 

 

 

It's been said before, that not everyone is the same. pures have hypothetical guns, and everyone else has some low grade body armor, the only balancing factor is that everyone else also has the chance to slap on a bullet proof vest when they please. This is, I suppose, human nature to hate difference- you dont comprehend that people arent acting out of spite for you, but out of their own mind's construct of what needs to be done, which is vastly different from what you need to do.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how to make it much more clear. A triangle isnt a circle, and neither object will fully understand the other. Simplest metaphor I can make currently, hopefully you can comprehend the meaning (aimed at the trolling pure)

 

 

 

I was never a pure, and I never had problems fighting pures without protect prayers. As long as you have a decent strength and magic level, have above 80 combat, and actually have some skill at pking and play your cards right you will NOT have problems with pures, end of discussion. (And by decent strength and magic I don't mean 75 in both)

 

 

 

You want to know the reason that high strength and attack are better than defense in pking? It's not because defense is ineffective - it's because it is NOT a duel. Pking is almost a mind game where you try to keep the other person fighting you long enough to pop a couple lucky numbers and drop him while avoiding the same thing from yourself. Protect prayers might help if you were in Al-Kharid, but when safety is 10 steps away prayers are totally counterproductive. No pker is going to stick around and fight someone that's 43ing their damage.

 

 

 

Seriously, I've explained this over and over and you still don't seem able to comprehend that protect prayers are pointless because of one plain, simple reason; pking is NOT a duel.

[slaytanicc]

The discussion isnt really 99 str 99 atk 70 def vs 85 rounded. I have to agree that once your defence is above average/barrows+ its more of a luxury than a requirement to train. And I also agree that the 99 str/attack would absolutly trump the extra 15 levels on the rounded players defence.

 

 

 

The larger discussion is pures with 1 def, vs someone with rounded combat stats. prayer can equal, and in that case the rounded player relies on defence more than offence because they are outmatched. Pures who dont realize that not everyone else who pk's is a pure- and then further assumes that they are "noobs" who know nothing about the game or how to pk- are the problem. people are pking the way they NEED to. complain all you want that people wont play YOUR 1 defence game, but it wont make a bit of difference, because they HAVE defence, and thus DONT have the highly boosted str/attack that a pure would. protect prayers are almost needed as a balancing factor.

 

 

 

It's been said before, that not everyone is the same. pures have hypothetical guns, and everyone else has some low grade body armor, the only balancing factor is that everyone else also has the chance to slap on a bullet proof vest when they please. This is, I suppose, human nature to hate difference- you dont comprehend that people arent acting out of spite for you, but out of their own mind's construct of what needs to be done, which is vastly different from what you need to do.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how to make it much more clear. A triangle isnt a circle, and neither object will fully understand the other. Simplest metaphor I can make currently, hopefully you can comprehend the meaning (aimed at the trolling pure)

 

 

 

AMEN! :thumbsup:

 

This is 100% correct!

[saif]

us pures pwn def neebz liek uber hard @@@ :thumbsup:

[Omar]

There's nothing wrong with defense, but in reality, less defense is usually better in pking. 99 att 99 str 70 def > 85 att 85 str 85 def by far!

 

This morning, I decided to head to the F2P BH craters, just to try it, since I wasn't going to be 100- combat forever. I near killed a level 98 pure (my F2P level) with a strength skillcape, but he managed to squeeze out of the cave. I'm 79/79/79. I'll let you conclude.

[hippomchippo]

People are trying to compare two types of pking, There's deep pking, where basically everyone prays, or there's 1v1 pking near the wall, which is basically an honor zone exept for the ags pjers.

[3hitm4g3u]

The discussion isnt really 99 str 99 atk 70 def vs 85 rounded. I have to agree that once your defence is above average/barrows+ its more of a luxury than a requirement to train. And I also agree that the 99 str/attack would absolutly trump the extra 15 levels on the rounded players defence.

 

 

 

The larger discussion is pures with 1 def, vs someone with rounded combat stats. prayer can equal, and in that case the rounded player relies on defence more than offence because they are outmatched. Pures who dont realize that not everyone else who pk's is a pure- and then further assumes that they are "noobs" who know nothing about the game or how to pk- are the problem. people are pking the way they NEED to. complain all you want that people wont play YOUR 1 defence game, but it wont make a bit of difference, because they HAVE defence, and thus DONT have the highly boosted str/attack that a pure would. protect prayers are almost needed as a balancing factor.

 

 

 

It's been said before, that not everyone is the same. pures have hypothetical guns, and everyone else has some low grade body armor, the only balancing factor is that everyone else also has the chance to slap on a bullet proof vest when they please. This is, I suppose, human nature to hate difference- you dont comprehend that people arent acting out of spite for you, but out of their own mind's construct of what needs to be done, which is vastly different from what you need to do.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how to make it much more clear. A triangle isnt a circle, and neither object will fully understand the other. Simplest metaphor I can make currently, hopefully you can comprehend the meaning (aimed at the trolling pure)

 

 

 

It is you who does not understand.

 

 

 

Protection prayers are NOT needed to 'balance' the fight. If we were in RSC I would say, you know what, you're right, because pures were straight up beasts in it. So much so that jagex changed the way combat levels are raised to stop pures.

 

 

 

Pures are tame versions of what they once were. I know and accept this. They are actually balanced with someone who has defence, to the point of the win could go either way in a fair fight. If you ran into a pure who was your combat level in RSC wildy you might as well have just handed your [cabbage] over and logged out.

[Silver_Corner]

PvP combat is, as it was intended to be played in the game, survival of the fittest. Where a player who ultimatly had higher combat stats, or more combat tactics/knowladge, would win a duel. PvP was meant to use all of your abilities in combat, not just 1. And there lies the problem most pk'ers have now days. 1 combat type. Melee.

 

 

 

Example: Lets say your friend challenges you to a Gun fight. Now, you are not allowed to use a bullet proof vest (prayer) because it is dishonorable. And a bulletproof vest would make a fight to long. The wrong thinking behind this is, people (espeically pures) only think inside the box. They focus on using the gun, and whine when people wear the bullet proof vest.

 

 

 

ANY great pk'er knows, you cannot limit yourself to 1 form of attack. You wear a vest, a great pker will switch from a gun to a knife, and so on. PvP was inteded to use EVERY single form of combat. Melee, Defence, Mage, Range, Prayer, Summon. Those who complain are those who are stuck holding just the gun. They cant think outside the box, and are only focused on their 1 weapon.

 

 

 

To those who say using prayer takes out of the joy of killing because it makes it so slow, frankly is a bad pker who cant think outside of the box. They cant see anything past using the single gun. If both you and your opponent pk'ed using every single combat form, you could use a different combat style USING THE TRIANGLE, which is how PvP is entended to be used. Someone prays melee?, you use mage, ect..

 

 

 

As for those who say taking all that extra equipment takes up to much space? The extra protection from praying would be equal to the space lost in food. If people Pk'ed correctly instead of the single gun honor code, loots would be more, and battles more exciting. It wouldnt just be about A hits B harder, A eats.. ect.. I would be much more complex. Having to know your triangle, switching prayers, and switching combat types.

 

 

 

To those of you who pk in this new update, I will be the one laughing over your gravestone, because I used all my combat triangle types while wearing my vest, and KO'ed you with ease, while you were focused on shooting your single gun.

[3rkid]

PvP combat is, as it was intended to be played in the game, survival of the fittest. Where a player who ultimatly had higher combat stats, or more combat tactics/knowladge, would win a duel. PvP was meant to use all of your abilities in combat, not just 1. And there lies the problem most pk'ers have now days. 1 combat type. Melee.

 

 

 

Example: Lets say your friend challenges you to a fun fight. Now, you are not allowed to use a bullet proof vest (prayer) because it is dishonorable. And a bulletproof vest would make a fight to long. The wrong thinking behind this is, people (espeically pures) only think inside the box. They focus on using the gun, and whine when people wear the bullet proof vest.

 

 

 

ANY great pk'er knows, you cannot limit yourself to 1 form of attack. You wear a vest, a great pker will switch from a gun to a knife, and so on. PvP was inteded to use EVERY single form of combat. Melee, Defence, Mage, Range, Prayer. Those who complain are those who are stuck holding just the gun. They cant think outside the box, and are only focused on their 1 weapon.

 

 

 

To those who say using prayer takes out of the joy of killing because it makes it so slow, frankly is a bad pker who cant think outside of the box. They cant see anything past using the single gun. If both you and your opponent pk'ed using every single combat form, you could use a different combat style USING THE TRIANGLE, which is how PvP is entended to be used. Someone prays melee?, you use mage, ect..

 

 

 

As for those who say taking all that extra equipment takes up to much space? The extra protection from praying would be equal to the space lost in food. If people Pk'ed correctly instead of the single gun honor code, loots would be more, and battles more exciting. It wouldnt just be about A hits B harder, A eats.. ect.. I would be much more complex. Having to know your triangle, switching prayers, and switching combat types.

 

 

 

To those of you who pk in this new update, I will be the one laughing over your gravestone, because I used all my combat triangle types while wearing my vest, and KO'ed you with ease, while you were focused on shooting your single gun.

 

 

 

I like many posts on this thread, but this one took the freaking cake :thumbup:

[3hitm4g3u]

PvP combat is, as it was intended to be played in the game, survival of the fittest. Where a player who ultimatly had higher combat stats, or more combat tactics/knowladge, would win a duel. PvP was meant to use all of your abilities in combat, not just 1. And there lies the problem most pk'ers have now days. 1 combat type. Melee.

 

 

 

Example: Lets say your friend challenges you to a Gun fight. Now, you are not allowed to use a bullet proof vest (prayer) because it is dishonorable. And a bulletproof vest would make a fight to long. The wrong thinking behind this is, people (espeically pures) only think inside the box. They focus on using the gun, and whine when people wear the bullet proof vest.

 

 

 

ANY great pk'er knows, you cannot limit yourself to 1 form of attack. You wear a vest, a great pker will switch from a gun to a knife, and so on. PvP was inteded to use EVERY single form of combat. Melee, Defence, Mage, Range, Prayer, Summon. Those who complain are those who are stuck holding just the gun. They cant think outside the box, and are only focused on their 1 weapon.

 

 

 

To those who say using prayer takes out of the joy of killing because it makes it so slow, frankly is a bad pker who cant think outside of the box. They cant see anything past using the single gun. If both you and your opponent pk'ed using every single combat form, you could use a different combat style USING THE TRIANGLE, which is how PvP is entended to be used. Someone prays melee?, you use mage, ect..

 

 

 

As for those who say taking all that extra equipment takes up to much space? The extra protection from praying would be equal to the space lost in food. If people Pk'ed correctly instead of the single gun honor code, loots would be more, and battles more exciting. It wouldnt just be about A hits B harder, A eats.. ect.. I would be much more complex. Having to know your triangle, switching prayers, and switching combat types.

 

 

 

To those of you who pk in this new update, I will be the one laughing over your gravestone, because I used all my combat triangle types while wearing my vest, and KO'ed you with ease, while you were focused on shooting your single gun.

 

 

 

You're confused.

 

 

 

People are not complaining about protect prayers because they only have one type of attack method, but rather because it prolongs the fight, wastes resources, and lowers the chance of either player getting a pk.

 

 

 

Why? Because most pkers will not change weapons when someone prays, but rather will pray themselves or run from the prayer noob. This is not productive.

[sumondskull6]

prayer was put in the game to be used, not for stupid pures to [bleep] about. :wall:

 

end of story.

 

 

 

if you want to use it use it, if you don't, then don't. -.-

 

 

 

OT: this thread was designed for idiots not wanting to skull to loose there precious rune, glory, berserker, and DDS.

 

if you don't want to loose your damn armor, then don't pk. -.-

 

another end of story..

 

 

 

:pray: don't start a quote train :pray:

[brando13a]

You're confused.

 

 

 

People are not complaining about protect prayers because they only have one type of attack method, but rather because it prolongs the fight, wastes resources, and lowers the chance of either player getting a pk.

 

 

 

Why? Because most pkers will not change weapons when someone prays, but rather will pray themselves or run from the prayer noob. This is not productive*

 

 

 

For serious mate, you just lost, thrice over. You're an obsolete machine, who appearantly wont adapt, and like the dodo's are doomed to have a most hilarious downfall. (plays clip from "Ice Age"/kungfu dodo's)

 

 

 

I applaud the [cabbage] kicking you just received from brianite3, among others. Extremely well done.

 

 

 

 

 

*[hide=]It finally hit me that you've been reminding me of the Darlek this whole time =D> :lol:[/hide]

[Infi]

You guys have a misconception and have no real experience to back up what you're saying. Sure, it may make sense down on paper and hypothetically, but it doesn't work out in reality. Just by looking at your posts, it does not take a genius to realize that you do not have one idea what you're talking about.

[squig]

There's nothing wrong with prayer, pjing, teaming, safing, or teleing. It can be annoying but there are no rules against it.

[DreamReaper]

You guys have a misconception and have no real experience to back up what you're saying. Sure, it may make sense down on paper and hypothetically, but it doesn't work out in reality. Just by looking at your posts, it does not take a genius to realize that you do not have one idea what you're talking about.

 

 

 

Exactly. Some of you people should actually get some experience before pking, instead of spouting the same " if you have it you can use it" argument. It's gotten really old, really fast. "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"-Albert Einstein. Just because you have paid the ungodly sum of maybe 1m and maybe 1.5 hours doesn't mean you should go around screaming to the world: "Hey everyone! Look I can pray in a fair 1v1 fight. I'm so cool, you should all bow down to my skiller turned wanna-be pker epicness!" :roll:

 

 

 

Really now. Is it necessary? Now you say prayer is a tactic. I say that if both parties pray all you're doing is making the fight twice as long. :wall:

 

 

 

Oh, but farcasting is a tactic, shouldn't you be hating on the mages by using their god-given freezing powers? No. I shouldn't. Range>mage. You're putting yourself totally vulnerable to deadly arrow barrages by farcasting. You're not prolonging the fight. You're making it laughably easy.

[davidium]

for those too noob to have used prayer in fights before, praying IS a tatic. look at the number of different prayers one can use (do not assume that everyone uses piety straight away which is not wise at all) and you will see how many different permutations and combinations you can come up with...it is a balance between the length of time you can pray and the amount of bonuses the prayers give you...

 

 

 

you don't have to use 10% attack just because you are using 10% strength prayer...very often i use 10% attack and 5% strength and if i get piled i just switch on protect melee together with 15% def prayer instead of running around complaining like some immature kid...

 

 

 

firstly i would like to say that if both opponents use only the 15% attack and strength prayers i see no reason why the battle should take longer...please enlighten me in this area :roll:

 

even if both use piety, the 23% bonus to strength and 20% bonus to attack should, or dare i say definitely will, overpower the 25% bonus to defense speeding up the fight instead.

 

 

 

and EVEN IF prayer might make a battle longer, if your prayer level is higher than your opponent you will have a much better chance at winning assuming that both your other combat stats are on par...which makes sense since someone with a higher str/atk/def would be expected to win more frequently too...

 

 

 

so your argument that using prayer just makes the battle longer and has no effect on the outcome is flawed as you are assuming that the 2 players fighting have exactly the SAME prayer level, using the SAME prayers and are drinking the SAME number of prayer potions...not to mention their prayer bonus are the SAME too -.- hmm probably one in a million...or perhaps billion considering the number of combinations and permutations there are.

 

 

 

anyone who takes mathematics at a decent level and know about permutations and combinations and factorials will easily be able to see that...

 

 

 

saying that prayer makes "no difference to the outcome but just prolongs that battle" is the same as saying "armour makes no difference to the outcome but just prolongs the battle too" for armour allows you to tank longer. likewise prayers allow you to do that exact same thing AND hit harder too. THUS if you say that prayer should not be used since it prolongs the battle then we should all fight without any armour...just hold a single weapon and whatever that gives only attack bonus...as you can see, the flaw behind the armour argument is that most people will be wearing different armour. LIKEWISE, you can't expect everyone to be using the same prayer, have the same prayer level, same prayer bonus and drink the same number of prayer potions.

 

 

 

and finally i would like to conclude by saying that there have been countless occasions where i used prayer to save my [wagon] and turn the tables on my opponent...so just have fun NOT using prayer and getting owned by me please =D>

[davidium]

The discussion isnt really 99 str 99 atk 70 def vs 85 rounded. I have to agree that once your defence is above average/barrows+ its more of a luxury than a requirement to train. And I also agree that the 99 str/attack would absolutly trump the extra 15 levels on the rounded players defence.

 

 

 

The larger discussion is pures with 1 def, vs someone with rounded combat stats. prayer can equal, and in that case the rounded player relies on defence more than offence because they are outmatched. Pures who dont realize that not everyone else who pk's is a pure- and then further assumes that they are "noobs" who know nothing about the game or how to pk- are the problem. people are pking the way they NEED to. complain all you want that people wont play YOUR 1 defence game, but it wont make a bit of difference, because they HAVE defence, and thus DONT have the highly boosted str/attack that a pure would. protect prayers are almost needed as a balancing factor.

 

 

 

It's been said before, that not everyone is the same. pures have hypothetical guns, and everyone else has some low grade body armor, the only balancing factor is that everyone else also has the chance to slap on a bullet proof vest when they please. This is, I suppose, human nature to hate difference- you dont comprehend that people arent acting out of spite for you, but out of their own mind's construct of what needs to be done, which is vastly different from what you need to do.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how to make it much more clear. A triangle isnt a circle, and neither object will fully understand the other. Simplest metaphor I can make currently, hopefully you can comprehend the meaning (aimed at the trolling pure)

 

 

 

It is you who does not understand.

 

 

 

Protection prayers are NOT needed to 'balance' the fight. If we were in RSC I would say, you know what, you're right, because pures were straight up beasts in it. So much so that jagex changed the way combat levels are raised to stop pures.

 

 

 

Pures are tame versions of what they once were. I know and accept this. They are actually balanced with someone who has defence, to the point of the win could go either way in a fair fight. If you ran into a pure who was your combat level in RSC wildy you might as well have just handed your [cabbage] over and logged out.

 

 

 

hmm now pures are saying we shouldn't use protection prayers cause they prolong the fight...in the future they are probably going to say we shouldn't use armour cause it prolongs the fight too yea? :roll:

 

 

 

look here...the COMBAT LEVEL was designed to incorporate your attack, str, def AND PRAYER level (talking about f2p and anyway summoning is not even in the picture here) thus jagex obviously feels that prayer is an aspect of the game which balances combat...if 2 people(guy A and B) are level 100 and A doesn't train prayer, he can't expect B not to use prayer. this is because if the B didn't use prayer it will be tantamount to B having 1 prayer which would in turn lower B's combat level and make A have the advantage. Thus B uses prayer for the simple reason that his prayer level is PART OF HIS COMBAT LEVEL and not using it is effectively reducing his combat level...giving A the upperhand.

 

 

 

to conclude, prayer balances combat unless you are saying that jagex has made some calculation errors and combat should be tweaked....which in that case feel free to complain to jagex...not us.

[DreamReaper]

for those too noob to have used prayer in fights before, praying IS a tatic. look at the number of different prayers one can use (do not assume that everyone uses piety straight away which is not wise at all) and you will see how many different permutations and combinations you can come up with...it is a balance between the length of time you can pray and the amount of bonuses the prayers give you...

 

 

 

you don't have to use 10% attack just because you are using 10% strength prayer...very often i use 10% attack and 5% strength and if i get piled i just switch on protect melee together with 15% def prayer instead of running around complaining like some immature kid...

 

 

 

firstly i would like to say that if both opponents use only the 15% attack and strength prayers i see no reason why the battle should take longer...please enlighten me in this area :roll:

 

even if both use piety, the 23% bonus to strength and 20% bonus to attack should, or dare i say definitely will, overpower the 25% bonus to defense speeding up the fight instead.

 

 

 

When I talk about prayer I'm referring to protection from melee/range.

 

 

 

and EVEN IF prayer might make a battle longer, if your prayer level is higher than your opponent you will have a much better chance at winning assuming that both your other combat stats are on par...which makes sense since someone with a higher str/atk/def would be expected to win more frequently too...

 

 

 

so your argument that using prayer just makes the battle longer and has no effect on the outcome is flawed as you are assuming that the 2 players fighting have exactly the SAME prayer level, using the SAME prayers and are drinking the SAME number of prayer potions...not to mention their prayer bonus are the SAME too -.- hmm probably one in a million...or perhaps billion considering the number of combinations and permutations there are.

 

 

 

anyone who takes mathematics at a decent level and know about permutations and combinations and factorials will easily be able to see that...

 

 

 

Granted most players take 2 or 3 prayer potions to pk with, I'm sure you'll have enough to consistently pray throughout the fight even whilst using piety.

 

 

 

 

saying that prayer makes "no difference to the outcome but just prolongs that battle" is the same as saying "armour makes no difference to the outcome but just prolongs the battle too" for armour allows you to tank longer. likewise prayers allow you to do that exact same thing AND hit harder too. THUS if you say that prayer should not be used since it prolongs the battle then we should all fight without any armour...just hold a single weapon and whatever that gives only attack bonus...as you can see, the flaw behind the armour argument is that most people will be wearing different armour. LIKEWISE, you can't expect everyone to be using the same prayer, have the same prayer level, same prayer bonus and drink the same number of prayer potions.

 

 

 

and finally i would like to conclude by saying that there have been countless occasions where i used prayer to save my [wagon] and turn the tables on my opponent...so just have fun NOT using prayer and getting owned by me please =D>

 

 

 

The thing about armor is that it doesn't give a 50% damage reduction. Pray when you're getting piled, I don't care. Pray to save your [wagon], whatever. Pray continuously throughout the fight, go die in a hole.

[davidium]

my 2nd post does talk about protection prayers...in fact i talked about almost every type of prayer other than those not commonly used in fights...

 

 

 

more assumptions coming from the "advocates of no prayer"...assumptions such as "I'm sure you'll have enough to consistently pray throughout the fight even whilst using piety" are clearly unfounded and not backed by any elaboration or evidence...how can you be so sure about this? :roll: i seriously doubt the truth in this statement because for one, some pures do not even train pray and even if they do, many do not train till 43...please enlighten me on how someone with prayer level below 43 can pray protect melee :roll:

 

 

 

and when you say that "The thing about armor is that it doesn't give a 50% damage reduction" i do beg to differ...hmm why not just consider someone wearing full torag with dfs...i really wonder how many people feel that player A with nothing but protect from melee can outlast prayer B with full torag and dfs :-w

 

 

 

EVEN if player A does so happen to outlast player B the difference will be small...also, jagex probably knows that current defense items already do reduce damage quite significantly or they would not have introduced the divine shield with 30% damage reduction on top of it's superior stats already from just one item for fear of making holders of such an item invincible...thus, i daresay full torag and dfs do reduce damage by more than 50%...

 

 

 

and from the last part of the previous post: "I don't care. Pray to save your [wagon], whatever. Pray continuously throughout the fight, go die in a hole."

 

we can see how advocates of "no prayer" have nothing left and nothing better to say but to agree with our point that praying is perfectly fine unless we should all take off our armour as well...so in future before you start arguing about not using pray in fights please argue the case of not using in armour in fights and perhaps even the case that everyone shouldn't train defense since it just "prolongs the fight"...if you can do that successfully, then and only then will you have no problem getting everyone convinced that we shouldn't use prayers =D>

 

 

 

and not to worry...i'll certainly be praying throughout the fight and to save my [wagon]...yup that is one thing that you got right :thumbup: that said, if there is one thing that everyone can learn from the previous post is that everyone who feels that prayer should not be used should follow this guy's attitude and "not care about those who pray" cause it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference to us =;

[Silver_Corner]

[hide=My Argument]

PvP combat is, as it was intended to be played in the game, survival of the fittest. Where a player who ultimatly had higher combat stats, or more combat tactics/knowladge, would win a duel. PvP was meant to use all of your abilities in combat, not just 1. And there lies the problem most pk'ers have now days. 1 combat type. Melee.

 

 

 

Example: Lets say your friend challenges you to a Gun fight. Now, you are not allowed to use a bullet proof vest (prayer) because it is dishonorable. And a bulletproof vest would make a fight to long. The wrong thinking behind this is, people (espeically pures) only think inside the box. They focus on using the gun, and whine when people wear the bullet proof vest.

 

 

 

ANY great pk'er knows, you cannot limit yourself to 1 form of attack. You wear a vest, a great pker will switch from a gun to a knife, and so on. PvP was inteded to use EVERY single form of combat. Melee, Defence, Mage, Range, Prayer, Summon. Those who complain are those who are stuck holding just the gun. They cant think outside the box, and are only focused on their 1 weapon.

 

 

 

To those who say using prayer takes out of the joy of killing because it makes it so slow, frankly is a bad pker who cant think outside of the box. They cant see anything past using the single gun. If both you and your opponent pk'ed using every single combat form, you could use a different combat style USING THE TRIANGLE, which is how PvP is entended to be used. Someone prays melee?, you use mage, ect..

 

 

 

As for those who say taking all that extra equipment takes up to much space? The extra protection from praying would be equal to the space lost in food. If people Pk'ed correctly instead of the single gun honor code, loots would be more, and battles more exciting. It wouldnt just be about A hits B harder, A eats.. ect.. I would be much more complex. Having to know your triangle, switching prayers, and switching combat types.

 

 

 

To those of you who pk in this new update, I will be the one laughing over your gravestone, because I used all my combat triangle types while wearing my vest, and KO'ed you with ease, while you were focused on shooting your single gun.

[/hide]

 

 

 

You're confused.

 

 

 

People are not complaining about protect prayers because they only have one type of attack method, but rather because it prolongs the fight, wastes resources, and lowers the chance of either player getting a pk.

 

 

 

Why? Because most pkers will not change weapons when someone prays, but rather will pray themselves or run from the prayer noob. This is not productive.

 

 

 

Actually they are complaining about the 1 combat type. You just said it yourself. It only "prolongs the fight, wastes resouces, and lowers the chance of the PK" for someone who dosent use the combat triangle. If you used the combat triangle, prayer wouldnt matter or prolong the fight, because you could simply change attack styles.

 

 

 

My point was people who pk with the "one gun honor code" handicap themselves making them "pray themselves or run from the prayer noob". If people used the combat traingle and used different forms of attack, prayer wouldnt matter.

 

 

 

People who dont pray and use 1 form of attack, are limiting themselves. A limit which I am free to exploit using all my combat types. Prayer is productive in a fight, but only if you fight correctly. If you dont fight correctly (with all of your abilities), thats not my fault you make your own handicap, and its a weakness I am willing to take advantage of. Its survival of the fittest.

 

 

 

EDIT: Keep in mind I am not insulting pures. I have a pure friend who a great pker pure, often making 3-4x as many kills as the times he dies. I have nothing against pures. But even as a pure, he knows to use more than 1 combat type. My argument is not about what levels you have, but using the levels that you already have.