nickeley102 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 So offer euthanasia as an alternative Which is death. its not a death sentence, its an option That makes sense, I think. Fairness isn't what matters, it's that the criminal is being dealt with in the first place? Yes, and dont allow yourself to gather enjoyment from that persons suffering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehllz Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Euthanasia is death by drugs, usually IV that make your brain stop. So yeah, it's death. Less painful, but still death. Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. -Napoleon Bonaparte Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein Global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. -Bobby Henderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickeley102 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Euthanasia is death by drugs, usually IV that make your brain stop. So yeah, it's death. Less painful, but still death. I thought it was optional i.e. a prison sentence or the chair, that gives them the option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenin64 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 So offer euthanasia as an alternative Which is death. its not a death sentence, its an option Euthanasia as opposed to a prison sentence? Like a choice between death and prison? I think they did that in Holes, only with that camp or prison. That could work in theory, but depending on how cheap it is made to be to put someone down vs. the amount that actually choose it, it may cause more prison overpopulation because those that normally would die aren't. Command the Murderous Chalices! Drink ye harpooners! drink and swear, ye men that man the deathful whaleboat's bow- Death to Moby Dick!BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle229 Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Euthanasia is death by drugs, usually IV that make your brain stop. So yeah, it's death. Less painful, but still death. I thought it was optional i.e. a prison sentence or the chair, that gives them the option We don't use the electric chair anymore. It's considered cruel and unusual punishment, but I'm not sure if the context it's used in has an effect on that. Get back here so I can rub your butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I say removing them from society (jail) is better than killing them The difference is that one type of removal is much more effective than the other type. If they are still alive, they still have the ability to do harm. Sure, jailing them can limit the harm they do but it is not an end-all solution which I think is necessary for the type of people we're speaking about. I am supporting the system as it is now, judges are chosen as wise people who make judgements of the severity of peoples crimes and their danger to society, whether they were the original offender or not What makes a judge's reasons for wanting the death sentence given to somebody any more justifiable than a regular person's? They are for the same reasons: society would be better off without this person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Like my grandmother says, cut their balls off. No need for death penalties. I know it sounds sick and controversial, but if you think about it for awhile, it could solve a lot of our problems. I agree cut their balls off, sick perverted bastards. But at the end of the day their nuts aren't the only thing to cause psychological damage. Molestation still occurs whether their balls are in tact or not. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickeley102 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I say removing them from society (jail) is better than killing them The difference is that one type of removal is much more effective than the other type. If they are still alive, they still have the ability to do harm. Sure, jailing them can limit the harm they do but it is not an end-all solution which I think is necessary for the type of people we're speaking about. I am supporting the system as it is now, judges are chosen as wise people who make judgements of the severity of peoples crimes and their danger to society, whether they were the original offender or not What makes a judge's reasons for wanting the death sentence given to somebody any more justifiable than a regular person's? They are for the same reasons: society would be better off without this person. We know that evidence against somebody is rarely conclusive enough for a criminal to be certainly guilty, this is why it is not completely uncommon for people to be put away unjustly for a length of time before being freed. Death is difficult to undo if this is the case. After typing that I realise your argument will be "what if we are scientifically certain they are guilty?" and my response is; it still isn't right, people don't wake up and decide I'm going to be evil today, they grow up in an unhealthy environment (I'm pretty sure most molesters were once molested) and they honestly don't know any better. I say restorative justice and jail is a more harmonious approach than capital punishment. And harmony should be the ends to which the justice system strives. In saying that I can imagine myself saying 'kill the bastard' in some situations involving people close to me Where I am from judges cant order death, my post assumed this was true where you live too, and it is still my belief that they shouldn't be allowed to, its never humane to kill, especially other humans, no questions (imo). I enjoyed saying my piece and debating with you guys, especially Zierro, but its just against my nature to believe in that kind of punishment, especially as a deterrent. P.S I know your just upset because I have a minutely higher combat level and could write a death sentence on you [wagon] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Oh but living in a single room for the rest of their life counts as suffering in my book. Why should they have to suffer because they couldn't choose the way they grew up? Because they choose how they act. And their choices happen to be the wrong ones. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We know that evidence against somebody is rarely conclusive enough for a criminal to be certainly guilty, this is why it is not completely uncommon for people to be put away unjustly for a length of time before being freed. Death is difficult to undo if this is the case. The only people being charged are the ones who are guilty beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt with a unanimous decision. Not perfect but as good as it's gonna get. If you're arguing in fear of some flaws in the justice system, then I can see where you're coming from. Personally, I believe that it's better to let one innocent man free than punish ten guilty people, but in the context of serial killers there is more to the story. If you let ten guilty serial killers go free, then you are causing more potential harm to society than making the decision to kill one innocent man would cause. After typing that I realise your argument will be "what if we are scientifically certain they are guilty?" and my response is; it still isn't right, people don't wake up and decide I'm going to be evil today, they grow up in an unhealthy environment (I'm pretty sure most molesters were once molested) and they honestly don't know any better. I say restorative justice and jail is a more harmonious approach than capital punishment. And harmony should be the ends to which the justice system strives. I know that there isn't much we can do about how we were brought up. However, that is no reason to keep these people around the innocent people. Let's stop the problem at the root instead. You say that molesters are that way because of others molesting them. Well, why not do our best to rid the world of molesters altogether that way it doesn't continue? I think the welfare of society as a whole will always be much more important than the welfare of one person - this person being a criminal, at that. its never humane to kill, especially other humans, no questions (imo). That may be true. It's not humane - but that doesn't mean it is unnecessary. If someone tried killing you, would you just stand there submissively and refuse to defend yourself because you think killing, under any context, is inhumane? P.S I know your just upset because I have a minutely higher combat level and could write a death sentence on you [wagon] Where did that come from? :? Besides, I'm level 127. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If it's not humane to kill, what does that say about a judicial system - allegedly serving the communal good - that will allow murderers to live at public expense, or even allow them to be free? Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavi Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 On a more moral note, what makes you think any single one of you have the right to decide whether another human being should live or die? What makes you so much better than they are? Every single one of you has done something wrong in your life before and I'm sure if every single person on earth was asked if they wanted you to be excecuted, at least one person would say yes. I'm with this guy. Nobody has the right to kill anyone, no matter the circumstances. I can honestly say I'd rather be executed than have a life sentence anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you want to argue that the judicial system has no right to sentence a murderer, rapist, pedophile or traitor to death, I would argue that it has no right to let them live. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksonic45 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you want to argue that the judicial system has no right to sentence a murderer, rapist, pedophile or traitor to death, I would argue that it has no right to let them live. No, the Constitution gives them that right. When they commit the crimes they forfeit those rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It really disturbs me sometimes how... violent this community is sometimes. How on Earth can you discuss how best to murder someone through capital punishment, and not talk about drugs in the same place? | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDawn Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Honestly, nobody deserves the death penalty, nobody has the right to say who lives and who dies. That's why you're on the TZDF blackdawn. Even your balls can tear zombies to shreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksonic45 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It really disturbs me sometimes how... violent this community is sometimes. How on Earth can you discuss how best to murder someone through capital punishment, and not talk about drugs in the same place? Guns are violent. They're also necessary. Honestly, nobody deserves the death penalty, nobody has the right to say who lives and who dies. What if the convict takes a life, what gave him that right? Again, like many others before me have said, death penalty is quick, simple, and painless but life in prison is a hellhole especially if you're being kept alive for the sake of living to die in the prison, without any positive things to your name at the end of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDawn Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Honestly, nobody deserves the death penalty, nobody has the right to say who lives and who dies. What if the convict takes a life, what gave him that right? Again, like many others before me have said, death penalty is quick, simple, and painless but life in prison is a hellhole especially if you're being kept alive for the sake of living to die in the prison, without any positive things to your name at the end of your life. He didn't and doesn't have the right, but as the saying goes, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. That's why you're on the TZDF blackdawn. Even your balls can tear zombies to shreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rkid Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Euthanasia is death by drugs, usually IV that make your brain stop. So yeah, it's death. Less painful, but still death. I thought it was optional i.e. a prison sentence or the chair, that gives them the option We don't use the electric chair anymore. It's considered cruel and unusual punishment, but I'm not sure if the context it's used in has an effect on that. Some United States states have the option to use the chair and apparantly three of them use it as their main execution method. * Is the electric chair cruel and unusual punishment? The US Supreme court, on several occasions, ruled that it did not violate the 8th amendment. * What states still use the electric chair? Georgia, Alabama and Nebraska use it as their main method for execution. But Arkansas, Florida , Kentucky, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia still have the option to use it. Of course it's those Southerner states... http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm326961.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestfrolic Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Finding justice in killing a human being is horribly outdated and barbaric. Nemo vir est qui mundum non reddat meliorem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It really disturbs me sometimes how... violent this community is sometimes. How on Earth can you discuss how best to murder someone through capital punishment, and not talk about drugs in the same place? Guns are violent. They're also necessary. Millions would disagree. Bad example to draw comparisons with. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksonic45 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 It really disturbs me sometimes how... violent this community is sometimes. How on Earth can you discuss how best to murder someone through capital punishment, and not talk about drugs in the same place? Guns are violent. They're also necessary. Millions would disagree. Bad example to draw comparisons with. K, hows this: In the Cold War, neither the US nor the Soviet Union dared to attack each other because they knew that if they sent over an H-Bomb, the opposing side would send one right back. The H-Bombs were violent but necessary to keep the peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I don't recall saying violence is always a bad thing. I just said it disturbs me how violent and spiteful some of the sentiments in this thread are. You've killed a convicted murderer. So what? You've still got around about the same chance of being murdered/raped/shot dead as you did before. In some ways it's like the whole 'we should know where local paedophiles are' debate. It makes you no safer, it's just society feeling they have to get even instead of getting on with their lives undisturbed like normal. As far as the Cold War goes, both sides were literally minutes away from nuclear war at some points. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I don't recall saying violence is always a bad thing. I just said it disturbs me how violent and spiteful some of the sentiments in this thread are. I find it more disturbing when people want these psychos to continue being a threat to society. You've killed a convicted murderer. So what? You've still got around about the same chance of being murdered/raped/shot dead as you did before. In some ways it's like the whole 'we should know where local paedophiles are' debate. It makes you no safer, it's just society feeling they have to get even instead of getting on with their lives undisturbed like normal. Taking serial killers out of society (people who usually revert back to their old ways) doesn't make society any safer? That doesn't make sense. I hope you're just talking about personal retributions rather than doing something for a greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastortoise Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You've killed a convicted murderer. So what? You've still got around about the same chance of being murdered/raped/shot dead as you did before. In some ways it's like the whole 'we should know where local paedophiles are' debate. It makes you no safer, it's just society feeling they have to get even instead of getting on with their lives undisturbed like normal. Taking serial killers out of society (people who usually revert back to their old ways) doesn't make society any safer? That doesn't make sense. I hope you're just talking about personal retributions rather than doing something for a greater good. Protip: try understanding people's arguments before posting. Usually I don't comment about this sort of stuff but it's getting ridiculous :wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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