02-February-2009 Behind The Scenes - February

[Troacctid]

Yes, I agree. Faster is better. The fact that there is no way to make a profit in most skills is great. The fact that some people worked for years to get high levels only to see their accomplishments and profit potential ruined is also a major advance. In fact, I think runecarafting is just too hard to train as well. They should just create a random event that gives you 500,000 nature runes and 13,035,000 experience in a lamp. That would be a major step forward since it is faster.

 

 

 

IMO DIFFERENT is fine, but FASTER isnt. Jagex could insert faster ways of doing things at any time. They could double the exp rate of doing any given thing at any given time. That is not a change or innovation to gameplay.They could give 1,000,000 exp for killing one Bloodveld, that would not make it a innovation to gameplay.

 

 

 

If jagex followed your path, it would also have the unfortunate side effect of getting rid of that little "slayer" aspect of Slayer. But really, what an irrelevant concept!

 

Slippery slope

 

 

 

Making a new minigame that gives slightly more xp/hr than ordinary slaying =/= 99 slayer instantly. As I said: "slayer is slow enough already--probably the slowest skill in the game--that making it a little faster, as Jagex did with the ZMI altar for runecrafting, would hardly detract from it as an achievement." If the new minigame gave 50k slayer xp/hr, slayer would still be a slower skill to level than agility, a cape commonly cited as well-respected. It's even probable that slayers would still eschew the new method even if it was faster, since it would be less profitable and/or slower xp in combat.

 

 

 

Minigames are just a very poorly designed way to cover the mistake of skillcapes. Also becasue of the failure of the Grand Exchange to stop unbalanced "junk" trades, they need a way for people to gain exp without creating junk, so they made a bunch of junk minigames.

 

The alternative to a minigame right now is to go and grind. Look at thieving: what are the best methods I could use to train at my level? I could knock out and pickpocket Menaphite thugs, or I could play Pyramid Plunder. Blackjacking would, in all likelihood, be faster, but it's far more tedious and repetitive. Luckily, Pyramid Plunder has a much more engrossing gameplay, and I don't need to sacrifice much of my training speed for a more full and varied gaming experience. The ordinary method is not obsoleted, but an alternative, different method is provided.

 

 

 

However, it's only a true alternative because the experience rates are greater than or comparable to the regular method of training. We can see a fine example of this in the gnome cooking minigame. Why is it so rarely played? Because you don't get anything good out of it. It's not that it isn't fun. On the contrary, I find it to be a great diversion. It's that you have to give up your training in order to play it.

 

 

 

If we got 7k cooking experience for every hard order we completed, all of a sudden it looks much more attractive, and it still doesn't even come close to obsoleting regular cooking.

 

 

 

Like it or not, good rewards are an integral part of a good minigame. (Well, for the most part anyway...PvP minigames seem to be the exception.)

 

 

 

faster isnt always better. like others have said, why do we play this game? if we're not playing it to have fun. i dont think everyone's definition of fun is the same but, playing games like gnome cooking is actually fun to me; it doesnt have to be fun to you; but i like it and i'm glad it's in the game. you get cooking xp for making the items; it's not all about xp really; you could buy raw sharks and train your cooking if you wanted a fast way to level but it's not the same obviously.

 

You shouldn't have to be giving anything up to use a good training method. Wouldn't you prefer it if gnome cooking was a viable training option instead of being slower experience than cooking shrimp?

 

 

 

i read on the forums complaints like "we cant make any money with herblore" then you are a not a very good player, just a fact. if you were a good player you would be able to make use of ingame features that would enable you to profit from herblore but you dont so instead of taking the blame for not doing that you blame the game for your own lack of resourcefullness.

 

It's not lack of resourcefulness. If you're such a good player, how are you making a profit from training herblore then? Cleaning herbs? Making Guthix Balance (unf) pots? Those are some of the most click-intensive, carpal-tunnel-inducing activities in the game.

 

 

 

minigames rule. it passes the time much quicker and those old ways of training a skill are still there. train mage in fog or train on spiders which is more fun? the answer may be different to different people but including another option is good for the person that would enjoy training mage in fog. same goes with a lot of the new content they've been releasing. it's another option for training; it doesnt replace or remove the old way it allows for more options. simple.

 

The most effective way to provide an alternative way to train is to make it on par with the other training methods. I would never go to FoG with the intent of training my magic any more than I would go to the Duel Arena and take on challengers to train my melee.

[Vincent]

the amount of xp gained by the new minigame has already been addressed by a jmod who stated that they had already considered that during its development; meaning they addressed it and it wouldnt make slayer "easier" to train. it would just be another option; not a faster way to train it.

 

 

 

for the lower level or for anyone for that matter; xp doesnt have to be the motivating factor for doing what you find enjoyable in the game. if xp is the motivating factor for you then that's you; doesnt have to be for others.

 

 

 

the developers deal with content and try to balance it the best they can. to make something that much more rewarding or worthwhile or to keep things in line with other content and not make other existing methods obselete. of course there are many factors also and that includes entertainment value and membership value etc.

 

 

 

i'm not going to get involved heavily in this discussion with quoting people and responding to quotes etc. but i do understand where people are coming from on both sides and varying standpoints. i trained combat before whips existed, before slayer existed, etc. :) i understand that people want new items to train with in some cases rather than entirely new ways to train. i look at the fishing trawler and see that as a non-lazy addition by the developers and better than just adding manta ray and turtle to fishing; to me making a minigame to include those items is a better way to introduce that content. but some people may disagree, but that's how people are.

 

 

 

just because i like something doesnt mean you should as well is true too. we have different opinions on the development of the game and what i want added to the game you may totally disagree with; doesnt mean one person is right and the other wrong; it's just different opinions about where the focus should be or what the order of priority should be.

 

 

 

some people want lvl 95 lvl 97 and lvl 99 slayer beasts. do i think that would be good for the game; it could be. do i oppose it? no. am i for it? i could be under the right circumstances. what would i like to see? i'd like to see, rather than just dumping in these higher lvl slayer monsters; a creative approach applied whereby other game content could be tied in and related so that perhaps slayers would be well suited to train other content besides slayer, not saying they dont or havent. i'm just saying a creative approach to new content is better than a lazy "simple" update of just adding it.

 

 

 

anyway, i think all players opinions are valuable and identifying motivations is also valuable; it helps being able to put things in the right context; the player base has differing motivations, likes and dislikes; the fact is the game has to remain competitive and balanced so all those factors are weighed regarding new content and that's a healthy process. :)

[mario_sunny]

Who cares about quests.

 

 

 

DEATH TO RANDOMS! :twisted:

[Troacctid]

My point is that players shouldn't need to choose between favorite methods and most efficient methods. I saw the J-Mod post saying that the xp will not be faster than regular training, but I disagree with it, in that Jagex should not be afraid to obsolete older methods if the older methods are less interesting.

 

 

 

New content should add things to the game. There is little to be lost from adding worthwhile rewards to minigames, especially if Jagex continues the trend set by TGOP, FoG, and SC of requiring recharging by playing the minigame more.

[OutwarDragon]

Honestly I think the updates are decent.

 

 

 

I am almost certain that Jagex would make the Price Checker multi item, they state it can hold multiples of an item already...

 

 

 

The quest organizer... ok that is a fail... tack that onto another update "we have released the 150th quest requiring 99 attack, 99 stregnth, 99 defence, and 99 hp... oh and you can also reorganize your quest list"

 

 

 

Slayer minigame... ok this might be nice IF and only IF the rewards are Castle Wars or Fist of Guthix style. A plate that gives +10% exp per slay would not be to harsh on the skill, am I right?

 

 

 

And a new D&D for farming... great I drove myself up here and now people will be leaping more easily... guess I should start using my stored magic seeds to grind up again =\

[Georgelemmons]

This update year is the best thing that happened to Runescape. Jagex is making real, helpful, and fun updates that have been suggested and wanted by it's players for a long time.

 

[Dork]

My point is that players shouldn't need to choose between favorite methods and most efficient methods. I saw the J-Mod post saying that the xp will not be faster than regular training, but I disagree with it, in that Jagex should not be afraid to obsolete older methods if the older methods are less interesting.

 

Yeah, there's a great idea, let's take the whole basis of the skill (taking tasks from masters) and make it completely redundant because a minigame is giving double the xp per hour. Thankfully Jagex seem to be smarter than you.

[Bauke]

My point is that players shouldn't need to choose between favorite methods and most efficient methods. I saw the J-Mod post saying that the xp will not be faster than regular training, but I disagree with it, in that Jagex should not be afraid to obsolete older methods if the older methods are less interesting.

 

Yeah, there's a great idea, let's take the whole basis of the skill (taking tasks from masters) and make it completely redundant because a minigame is giving double the xp per hour. Thankfully Jagex seem to be smarter than you.

 

Agreed. It would destroy slayer. It'd be nothing more than a minigame where you can be ranked in.

[Troacctid]

My point is that players shouldn't need to choose between favorite methods and most efficient methods. I saw the J-Mod post saying that the xp will not be faster than regular training, but I disagree with it, in that Jagex should not be afraid to obsolete older methods if the older methods are less interesting.

 

Yeah, there's a great idea, let's take the whole basis of the skill (taking tasks from masters) and make it completely redundant because a minigame is giving double the xp per hour. Thankfully Jagex seem to be smarter than you.

 

Look at Smoking Kills. The new rewards revolutionized the way people train slayer. I don't think anyone would reasonably be able to argue that the skill was ruined as a result. Look at the ZMI altar. It made runecrafting significantly faster to train, but the essence of the skill (no pun intended) is the same.

[Bauke]

My point is that players shouldn't need to choose between favorite methods and most efficient methods. I saw the J-Mod post saying that the xp will not be faster than regular training, but I disagree with it, in that Jagex should not be afraid to obsolete older methods if the older methods are less interesting.

 

Yeah, there's a great idea, let's take the whole basis of the skill (taking tasks from masters) and make it completely redundant because a minigame is giving double the xp per hour. Thankfully Jagex seem to be smarter than you.

 

Look at Smoking Kills. The new rewards revolutionized the way people train slayer. I don't think anyone would reasonably be able to argue that the skill was ruined as a result. Look at the ZMI altar. It made runecrafting significantly faster to train, but the essence of the skill (no pun intended) is the same.

 

That is true. But you are talking about giving a minigame faster xp than the original method the skill was designed with. Therefore, there'd be no more benefit to training the original way. Smoking kills was an addition to the existing training method, and ZMI was an alternative which didn't make the old training methods obsolete, since ZMI doesn't give much profit.

[Obtaurian]

My point is that players shouldn't need to choose between favorite methods and most efficient methods. I saw the J-Mod post saying that the xp will not be faster than regular training, but I disagree with it, in that Jagex should not be afraid to obsolete older methods if the older methods are less interesting.

 

Yeah, there's a great idea, let's take the whole basis of the skill (taking tasks from masters) and make it completely redundant because a minigame is giving double the xp per hour. Thankfully Jagex seem to be smarter than you.

 

Look at Smoking Kills. The new rewards revolutionized the way people train slayer. I don't think anyone would reasonably be able to argue that the skill was ruined as a result. Look at the ZMI altar. It made runecrafting significantly faster to train, but the essence of the skill (no pun intended) is the same.

 

 

 

Exactly. The essence of the skill is retained, which is why ZMI and Smoking Kills were great updates. You are still taking tasks from Slayer Masters, you are still crafting runes in a dangerous (well, more ANNOYING than dangerous) environment.

 

 

 

If a safe minigame was released that allowed players to gain equal or faster experience than actually training the skill itself, it would destroy the purpose of the skill, would it not?

 

 

 

Anyway, like a player above mentioned, I wouldn't mind rewards that helped Slayers.

[Troacctid]

Look at Smoking Kills. The new rewards revolutionized the way people train slayer. I don't think anyone would reasonably be able to argue that the skill was ruined as a result. Look at the ZMI altar. It made runecrafting significantly faster to train, but the essence of the skill (no pun intended) is the same.

 

 

 

Exactly. The essence of the skill is retained, which is why ZMI and Smoking Kills were great updates. You are still taking tasks from Slayer Masters, you are still crafting runes in a dangerous (well, more ANNOYING than dangerous) environment.

 

 

 

If a safe minigame was released that allowed players to gain equal or faster experience than actually training the skill itself, it would destroy the purpose of the skill, would it not?

 

 

 

Anyway, like a player above mentioned, I wouldn't mind rewards that helped Slayers.

 

 

 

http://news.runescape.com/c=wZvh57*pwIc/newsitem.ws?id=352

 

 

 

Today we have introduced a new skill for members called the Slayer skill!

 

 

 

The Slayer skill allows you to kill strange new creatures which would previously have been immune to your attacks. These previously undisturbed creatures have been hoarding treasure for a long time, and as such you may find great rewards from killing them...

 

 

 

The purpose of the slayer skill is to kill monsters that require special methods or equipment, not to get tasks from slayer masters.

 

 

 

From the description of Soul Wars:

 

Get ready to grab your blade, staff or bow and battle through Slayer creatures, collecting fragments of their souls to feed to the ever-hungry obelisk.

 

Killing slayer monsters. Sounds fine to me.

[sarg1010]

[hide=remember kids, always hit "preview" before "submit".]

Look at Smoking Kills. The new rewards revolutionized the way people train slayer. I don't think anyone would reasonably be able to argue that the skill was ruined as a result. Look at the ZMI altar. It made runecrafting significantly faster to train, but the essence of the skill (no pun intended) is the same.

 

 

 

Exactly. The essence of the skill is retained, which is why ZMI and Smoking Kills were great updates. You are still taking tasks from Slayer Masters, you are still crafting runes in a dangerous (well, more ANNOYING than dangerous) environment.

 

 

 

If a safe minigame was released that allowed players to gain equal or faster experience than actually training the skill itself, it would destroy the purpose of the skill, would it not?

 

 

 

Anyway, like a player above mentioned, I wouldn't mind rewards that helped Slayers.

 

 

 

http://news.runescape.com/c=wZvh57*pwIc/newsitem.ws?id=352

 

 

 

Today we have introduced a new skill for members called the Slayer skill!

 

 

 

The Slayer skill allows you to kill strange new creatures which would previously have been immune to your attacks. These previously undisturbed creatures have been hoarding treasure for a long time, and as such you may find great rewards from killing them...

 

 

 

The purpose of the slayer skill is to kill monsters that require special methods or equipment, not to get tasks from slayer masters.

 

 

 

From the description of Soul Wars:

 

Get ready to grab your blade, staff or bow and battle through Slayer creatures, collecting fragments of their souls to feed to the ever-hungry obelisk.

 

Killing slayer monsters. Sounds fine to me.

[/hide]

 

Exactly, everyone seems to act like "omfg they said slayer monsters!@!@!! They must be planning on nerfing slayer!@!@@@". No, they probably aren't... heck they could give us rewards that nerf contruction or something... quit making a big deal over something you have no idea is going to happen or not...

[Obtaurian]

Look at Smoking Kills. The new rewards revolutionized the way people train slayer. I don't think anyone would reasonably be able to argue that the skill was ruined as a result. Look at the ZMI altar. It made runecrafting significantly faster to train, but the essence of the skill (no pun intended) is the same.

 

 

 

Exactly. The essence of the skill is retained, which is why ZMI and Smoking Kills were great updates. You are still taking tasks from Slayer Masters, you are still crafting runes in a dangerous (well, more ANNOYING than dangerous) environment.

 

 

 

If a safe minigame was released that allowed players to gain equal or faster experience than actually training the skill itself, it would destroy the purpose of the skill, would it not?

 

 

 

Anyway, like a player above mentioned, I wouldn't mind rewards that helped Slayers.

 

 

 

http://news.runescape.com/c=wZvh57*pwIc/newsitem.ws?id=352

 

 

 

Today we have introduced a new skill for members called the Slayer skill!

 

 

 

The Slayer skill allows you to kill strange new creatures which would previously have been immune to your attacks. These previously undisturbed creatures have been hoarding treasure for a long time, and as such you may find great rewards from killing them...

 

 

 

The purpose of the slayer skill is to kill monsters that require special methods or equipment, not to get tasks from slayer masters.

 

 

 

From the description of Soul Wars:

 

Get ready to grab your blade, staff or bow and battle through Slayer creatures, collecting fragments of their souls to feed to the ever-hungry obelisk.

 

Killing slayer monsters. Sounds fine to me.

 

 

 

The point of Slayer is that the Masters TEACH you to slay certain monsters by sending you into battle with them. If this minigame has a Slayer master, and that master is assigning me tasks so that I may learn to slay certain monsters, then I will embrace this game, as it has not strayed from the point of Slayer.

 

 

 

Slayer is not just killing monsters that require certain equipment. Slayer is about LEARNING to kill those monsters through Slayer Masters.

[Troacctid]

The point of Slayer is that the Masters TEACH you to slay certain monsters by sending you into battle with them. If this minigame has a Slayer master, and that master is assigning me tasks so that I may learn to slay certain monsters, then I will embrace this game, as it has not strayed from the point of Slayer.

 

 

 

Slayer is not just killing monsters that require certain equipment. Slayer is about LEARNING to kill those monsters through Slayer Masters.

 

Okay, so the game is run by a slayer master. Just like PC is run by Void Knights and BA is run by Barbarians and FoG is run by Fiara and some druid dudes. *shrug*

 

 

 

Again, people made the same arguments regarding Vinesweeper. "It's not real farming," they said. How is it not real farming? You're working in a field to raise crops...it's more like "real" farming than regular farming is! In this case, you're still slaying slayer monsters, aren't you? So what's so wrong with it?

[Obtaurian]

The point of Slayer is that the Masters TEACH you to slay certain monsters by sending you into battle with them. If this minigame has a Slayer master, and that master is assigning me tasks so that I may learn to slay certain monsters, then I will embrace this game, as it has not strayed from the point of Slayer.

 

 

 

Slayer is not just killing monsters that require certain equipment. Slayer is about LEARNING to kill those monsters through Slayer Masters.

 

Okay, so the game is run by a slayer master. Just like PC is run by Void Knights and BA is run by Barbarians and FoG is run by Fiara and some druid dudes. *shrug*

 

 

 

Again, people made the same arguments regarding Vinesweeper. "It's not real farming," they said. How is it not real farming? You're working in a field to raise crops...it's more like "real" farming than regular farming is! In this case, you're still slaying slayer monsters, aren't you? So what's so wrong with it?

 

 

 

Wait, so you're saying that a master teaching you to slay bigger and badder monsters as you progress in levels is similar to a knight telling you to DEFNED MAI PORT4ALZ PLS?

 

 

 

I've already pointed how why simply killing a bunch of monsters is not Slayer. Reread my previous post.

[Troacctid]

Wait, so you're saying that a master teaching you to slay bigger and badder monsters as you progress in levels is similar to

The way you train slayer normally? :o

a knight telling you to DEFNED MAI PORT4ALZ PLS?

-.-

 

 

 

Void knights send you into battle in Pest Control. Slayer master sends you into battle in SW. Somebody needs to look after the minigame; in this case it can be a slayer master.

 

 

 

I've already pointed how why simply killing a bunch of monsters is not Slayer. Reread my previous post.

 

A slayer task = killing a bunch of monsters. Is that not slayer?

[Kimberly]

Wait, so you're saying that a master teaching you to slay bigger and badder monsters as you progress in levels is similar to

The way you train slayer normally? :o

a knight telling you to DEFNED MAI PORT4ALZ PLS?

-.-

 

 

 

Void knights send you into battle in Pest Control. Slayer master sends you into battle in SW. Somebody needs to look after the minigame; in this case it can be a slayer master.

 

 

 

I've already pointed how why simply killing a bunch of monsters is not Slayer. Reread my previous post.

 

A slayer task = killing a bunch of monsters. Is that not slayer?

 

 

 

I like this concept. It could also give us an idea into how Slayer Masters are chosen, and why Duradel's rise to Slayer Master rank was so tumultuous. Maybe a glimpse of info into Lapalok's history?

[Obtaurian]

Wait, so you're saying that a master teaching you to slay bigger and badder monsters as you progress in levels is similar to

The way you train slayer normally? :o

a knight telling you to DEFNED MAI PORT4ALZ PLS?

-.-

 

 

 

Void knights send you into battle in Pest Control. Slayer master sends you into battle in SW. Somebody needs to look after the minigame; in this case it can be a slayer master.

 

 

 

I've already pointed how why simply killing a bunch of monsters is not Slayer. Reread my previous post.

 

A slayer task = killing a bunch of monsters. Is that not slayer?

 

 

 

Slayer Masters send you into battle to learn slay bigger, badder monsters, as I've explained. Killing monsters is not Slayer. If it were that simple, we would not have a Slayer skill. LEARNING to kill specialized monsters by going to Slayer Masters is Slayer.

 

 

 

I'm not going to explain that again. You clearly do not understand the concept of Slayer, and you clearly do not want to. I'll leave you here to "l0l n0t r34d" in peace.

[Troacctid]

Slayer Masters send you into battle to learn slay bigger, badder monsters, as I've explained. Killing monsters is not Slayer. If it were that simple, we would not have a Slayer skill. LEARNING to kill specialized monsters by going to Slayer Masters is Slayer.

 

 

 

I'm not going to explain that again. You clearly do not understand the concept of Slayer, and you clearly do not want to. I'll leave you here to "l0l n0t r34d" in peace.

 

Look, maybe it sounds different in your head, but slayer tasks are just killing monsters. And a significant portion of the time, they're not special monsters, and your only contact with the slayer master is when they say, "'Ello, what are you after then? Okay, your next assignment is to kill 145 black demons."

 

 

 

In Soul Wars, you presumably will be slaying special kinds of monsters. It's likely that as a reward, you will get to learn more about slayer. I don't see the big problem with that.

[Mercifull]

blah blah blah

Please hand in all the slayer exp you've ever got from quests, experience lamps, books of knowledge, genies and slayer points. Thank you.

[Obtaurian]

blah blah blah

Please hand in all the slayer exp you've ever got from quests, experience lamps, books of knowledge, genies and slayer points. Thank you.

 

 

 

How many quests give Slayer experience, specifically? That's how much I've gotten. So, take away that 50k. I'll have it back in an hour or two.

 

 

 

I would never spend books or lamps on a skill that I enjoy so much when I could spend it on a slower skill, like Runecrafting. I really hope that no one uses their points to buy that 10k experience. What a waste.

 

 

 

What is it with Tipiters trying really hard to be clever?

 

 

 

EDIT: You can get about 55k experience from quests, and I haven't done Back To My Roots. So, in that case, take away my 32k Slayer experience.

[Mercifull]

Have you ever cashed in a Slayer point for exp? I know its pointless me asking because you will say you never have even if you have to make a point. But just putting it out there that its another way to get Slayer exp other than killing monsters.

[Bauke]

Have you ever cashed in a Slayer point for exp? I know its pointless me asking because you will say you never have even if you have to make a point. But just putting it out there that its another way to get Slayer exp other than killing monsters.

 

You can only get small bits of slayer xp without fighting monsters. Swapping points for xp is very expensive and books/lamps are very random, and give low xp.

[Mercifull]

Have you ever cashed in a Slayer point for exp? I know its pointless me asking because you will say you never have even if you have to make a point. But just putting it out there that its another way to get Slayer exp other than killing monsters.

 

You can only get small bits of slayer xp without fighting monsters. Swapping points for xp is very expensive and books/lamps are very random, and give low xp.

My point thought is that they exist. You also get experience lamps in quests and diaries which amount to several hundred thousands of free exp. If you are going to be elitist about slayer only being able to be trainined in the regular way then u need to ban those other methods too. And it aint gonna happen.