A Growing Problem...

[Beloved]

merchant clans have really become a huge threat to Rs in the last few months.

 

 

 

i really hope jagex is insightfull enough to see this and will do something about it there are plenty of ways to decrease merchant clans' power.

[pulli23]

And second, what is stopping players from getting the items they need themselves? I am not going to use the adage of 'back in my day before the ge blah blah blah' but I am going to point out that any item that a player may need came from somewhere other than the GE. If you cannot get a whip because your slayer is too low, do something else to get the money for 2 of them, then buy one. Heck you could even work on slayer while you try to make the money. Need coal to make mith bars? There is a mine for that. Having trouble getting a barrows piece? If you can wear barrows you can do barrows so get to work. Now some thing I understand are not going to be as accessible. Godwords for instance might be trouble but if you can afford one what does it matter if you lose 2 m by buying one? You still have 16m+ A loss of 2m should not hurt you that badly and if it does DO NOT BUY THE SWORD, it is not that much better than a whip or scimmy.

 

Exactly, like before ge I wouldn't mind spending 3 days to get 1 item, since I could always stand in falador/varrock and ACTIVELY involve in the trading. - Now when I need the item I'm behaving like: logging in, checkign transfers - logging out, next hour: logging in - checking transers, logging out.

 

I can't actively do anything between that time (and if I've set my mind on completing something I can't get myself to do anything else untill that task is completed)..

 

 

 

You say there's enough room for either skillers or combat persons: but what about those who like everything once in a while? Really specific armour/skill items you have to trim down on a lot... (And in my case I got a waterfiend task: there the SS IS the best by far).

 

 

 

And waiting 2 days is a lot, if you plan to use an item for 1 day (like 1 slayer task) it's 2/3 of the time you're waiting for an item at ge, so a those clans spoil 2/3 of my fun in rs! - Ow and stop saying "use your whip instead".. That means you completely misses the point (which I like) in slayer: slayer is about using the specific armour to hit the monster on it's weak points! - That means you've got to change your outfit for every task. - And that's what I like about slayer (optimizing your outfit for best performance)....

 

 

 

The simple problem is that the economy behaves way to unpredictable thanks to these pyramid-type-structures! (there's a reason building such a structure in real life is a crime). - And this makes buying/selling (temporary using an item) just a big gamble!

 

 

 

 

 

However I don't see any way to solve it.. Other then to organize those clans against each other (so they even each other out) - I tried this a few months ago, but the porblem is that once you get influence people stop being reasonable, and just become greedy!

[Kietaro1]

I am sorry I misrepresented the contents of my bank. Yes I have skiller items but I have combat items as well. I even have 78 slayer on top of low 80s combats, I am not new to slayer at all. At the same time, I still have room in my bank for all the armor and weapons I need. I have my whip, I have my zammy spear, guthans, torag legs and plate, veracs skirt, Kharils top, rune xbows, arrows, you name it I have room for it.

 

 

 

And while the sara sword may be best for waterfiends, the zammy spear is nearly as good without the potential loss which is really my point. If you cannot afford to lose money on buying an item for 1 task then DON'T buy it, use something more in your means. Or buy it to keep.

 

 

 

[Ned]

Good topic :thumbup:

 

I used to think these clans were fine, as they allowed me to predict the graphs much more easily, since you could always find out whether an item was being manipulated.

 

 

 

But nowadays, like you said, it is completely different. The clan leaders lie and deceive new chat members, tricking them into buying out their dumped items. These people are left with huge loss and an unsellable item.

 

 

 

So I think something should be done about this, it should be classified as item scamming in my opinion, although it would be difficult to have evidence for such things, since they don't happen in 60 seconds.

[valdentia]

A man's loss is another man's gain

 

 

 

lets look at A C I D Y's CC, he has a huge fan following which he easily controls, he basically does this if i am correct. He has over 1.2bil and buys out a specifci item like he did with ahrim's robeskirts, he than tells his followers to buy it out and waits for it to raise money, he than suddenly dumps the item and guess what all of his followers now have what is basically junk and they lost a lot of money and cant sell on ge. this is why there are many people trying to make merchant clans right now. they are basically doing these stuff with everyday items ranging from pharoah's scepture and ahrim robe skirts and make immense profits almost 15% of money extra.

 

 

 

only way to stop this is limit of how many specific items you can have in bank like 10x sceptures or 500x amulets of glories.

[XSniperX]

An NPC should just sell everything, you go to him and search for your item and then buy it off him for a set price which never changes, take it or leave it. You could also sell your items to him for a price Jagex has decided they are worth when the item is released or for existing items they decide a price :D

[Chained_life]

Stop whining and take advantage of it. While you lose 100k, people like me are gaining 100k by putting in a tiny bit of effort into watching the graphs on certain items that I occasionally sell/buy. :lol:.

 

 

 

 

 

I applaud those that are willing and able to make billions, good for them. But since it is against the game rules, I must respect the rules and frown upon the rule breaking.

 

--

 

 

 

 

 

A man's loss is another man's gain

 

 

 

lets look at A C I D Y's CC, he has a huge fan following which he easily controls, he basically does this if i am correct. He has over 1.2bil and buys out a specifci item like he did with ahrim's robeskirts, he than tells his followers to buy it out and waits for it to raise money, he than suddenly dumps the item and guess what all of his followers now have what is basically junk and they lost a lot of money and cant sell on ge. this is why there are many people trying to make merchant clans right now. they are basically doing these stuff with everyday items ranging from pharoah's scepture and ahrim robe skirts and make immense profits almost 15% of money extra.

 

 

 

only way to stop this is limit of how many specific items you can have in bank like 10x sceptures or 500x amulets of glories.

 

 

 

 

 

Ridiculous idea, NO, NO NO NO. Stop trying to limit the amount of items/cash I can have, that's none of YOUR business. If I want 500 rune sets or ahrim sets, that's my business, not yours. If you can't get in G.E. Stop being lazy and go do clues for the rune armor and barrows the ahrims. All my money has come from dks, slayer and some gwd. I have never had a 10mil+ gwd drop, ever. My total value is great because I know how to handle my money and not waste on ridiculous items that I know will crash over a long period of time. Example? Godswords, never had one, never needed, and surprisingly I'm much richer than friends I know with godswords :lol:

 

 

 

How about we limit everyone! no one can have more than 1 rune set, no one can have more than 1 whip, if you get a whip drop it disappears, goes into the G.E. while you make 0 profit. That's the spirit!

[FooK-A-Ji]

And yet nobody here complains when prices of the things you want drop. =D>

[Danqazmlp]

Stop whining and take advantage of it. While you lose 100k, people like me are gaining 100k by putting in a tiny bit of effort into watching the graphs on certain items that I occasionally sell/buy. :lol:.

 

 

 

 

 

I applaud those that are willing and able to make billions, good for them. But since it is against the game rules, I must respect the rules and frown upon the rule breaking.

 

--

 

 

 

 

 

A man's loss is another man's gain

 

 

 

lets look at A C I D Y's CC, he has a huge fan following which he easily controls, he basically does this if i am correct. He has over 1.2bil and buys out a specifci item like he did with ahrim's robeskirts, he than tells his followers to buy it out and waits for it to raise money, he than suddenly dumps the item and guess what all of his followers now have what is basically junk and they lost a lot of money and cant sell on ge. this is why there are many people trying to make merchant clans right now. they are basically doing these stuff with everyday items ranging from pharoah's scepture and ahrim robe skirts and make immense profits almost 15% of money extra.

 

 

 

only way to stop this is limit of how many specific items you can have in bank like 10x sceptures or 500x amulets of glories.

 

 

 

 

 

Ridiculous idea, NO, NO NO NO. Stop trying to limit the amount of items/cash I can have, that's none of YOUR business. If I want 500 rune sets or ahrim sets, that's my business, not yours. If you can't get in G.E. Stop being lazy and go do clues for the rune armor and barrows the ahrims. All my money has come from dks, slayer and some gwd. I have never had a 10mil+ gwd drop, ever. My total value is great because I know how to handle my money and not waste on ridiculous items that I know will crash over a long period of time. Example? Godswords, never had one, never needed, and surprisingly I'm much richer than friends I know with godswords :lol:

 

 

 

How about we limit everyone! no one can have more than 1 rune set, no one can have more than 1 whip, if you get a whip drop it disappears, goes into the G.E. while you make 0 profit. That's the spirit!

 

 

 

 

 

Contradiction in the bolded parts.

 

 

 

but your missing the point completely, we don't want to stop you having 500 rune sets, go for it, but if you buy out the g.e's supply, forcing the price to rise, then we will come to loggerheads. Setting a limit on how many you can buy through the g.e is something i full support, 1 of most 1m+ items per person is something i support, because the vast population of rs only eneds one of these items, and in the very rare case you need more, you can go to the forums or buy in person.

[TheWilch]

And yet nobody here complains when prices of the things you want drop. =D>

 

 

 

topic pwned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danqazmlp if jagex controlled the # of items worth over 1m in my bank, my inv, or my g/e id quit rs. anyone agree? why just 1m+ items? you can merch anything and any quanity. an item of 100gp will add up when its bought out by the thousands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

why not make npcs drop 1m+ items once and only once??? silllllly.... not every item in rs should be treated like a quest item just because the chance to make money off it presents itself.

[Punitive_D]

I've found this rarely to be a problem. I keep the things that I frequently need. And if I don't have just the right thing and can't get it right away, I make do with a close substitute. Almost always if I put in an offer for max overnight, I get the thing. Half these people who complain that they can't buy aren't willing to pay max. Stop being so cheap. Half just can't bear to wait fifteen minutes for their offer to go through. Stop being so impatient.

 

 

 

It is true that merchers drive prices up and down. Ordinarily, it makes no difference to me because I generally buy things to use them, not for resale. But I sometimes take advantage of the merchers -- if I see something moving, I might jump on board. Gotta be careful there, though, cause if you get greedy, you can get burned. I lost five mil on zammy stoles one time because I got greedy.

 

 

 

Everything about this game is a competition. Some use the GE to compete for money. That's part of the game. If you don't want to be subject to the price swings generated by the competition, then you can either (1) keep the things you need on hand, or (2) develop the skills to make the things you need yourself.

 

 

 

But if you are begging (literally) borrowing and stealing just to get enough to buy some expensive item at the minimum, and then become disappointed because the price keeps running away from you, stop complaining and start playing smarter.

[TheWilch]

^

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

rs is based on a "do-it-yourself" attitude anyways. why even bother with the g/e, sure its convenient and quick but its not going to hold back any other aspect of the game... :|

[joker202]

It funny.

 

 

 

Ever since the trade limits people have been complaining that this game should be free market.

 

 

 

But this whole thread people are complaining that there should be caps and buying limits.

 

 

 

Well take your pick... free market or caps?

 

 

 

If you want a free market, then merchanting comes with the territory.

[Danqazmlp]

It funny.

 

 

 

Ever since the trade limits people have been complaining that this game should be free market.

 

 

 

But this whole thread people are complaining that there should be caps and buying limits.

 

 

 

Well take your pick... free market or caps?

 

 

 

If you want a free market, then merchanting comes with the territory.

 

 

 

 

 

Theres a difference in free market and caps.

 

 

 

By free market, people mean they want to set their own prices. Without caps, we have merchant clans putting items into prices nobody who actually wants the item for the item would pay.

 

 

 

To the person who said something about my post on the last page right at the bottom, please, re-read my post, i say nothing about controlling how many of said item you have, just how many you can buy on the g.e at once. It is buying tons of an item on the g.e that drives an item up, if you want 300 ahrim's tops, go on the forum. Better caps can stop the merchant clans, while hardly inconveniencing a vast majority of players.

[pulli23]

What I think should be done is "dynamic caps": instead of saying you can buy X y times in 4 hours, wouldn't this work better?

 

 

 

You can buy up to 2.5% + 1 of the previous day's total trade every day. - So for example coal you can buy 250K daily... Yet godswords (etc) which are trade only like 1000 daily you can buy 26 daily...

 

 

 

This limit would prevent any person to completely control the market..

 

 

 

Also Ge shouldn't be based on completed offers, but instead also based on the incomplete offers: THIS, is the basic that causes why those manipulator clans work, and THIS is the reason why GE prices get stuck!

 

 

 

I never ever sawa reason to base it on completed offers: heck I wrote (in pseudo code) already a way how to calculate accurate prices.. Yet no one ever seems to actually listen...

[Nero]

I've never really understood this hate that some people seem to have towards merchants. Clan merchanting and price manipulation are just part of the game now. Learn to adapt, and use it to your advantage, and you'll realize you can come out better than you would've without it.

 

 

 

Also, for some people who inisist that Runescape should be about leveling skills and constantly grinding: I've done that. Way too much if you ask me. If the only thing that intesrests me about Runescape right now is the collection of wealth, who the hell are you to tell me I'm dishonourable or not playing in the spirit of the game?

[valdentia]

You do know there are chinese gold shops that make merchnating clans?, they auto most of their investment money and than start buying out items with their capital. If you havent noticed Jagex has killed a major source of income for a lot of people by reducing Raw bird meat from 67 gp to mere 17 gp, because autors would make mass amounts of money this way and do RWT. most likely jagex is going to put more anti-Rwt updates on the ge. the only way i can guess is reducing the number of weapons/armour bought from 100 per 4 hours to less than 10 per 4 hours. almost 100 of a dharok's platebody can instantly kill the supply on ge and can cause it to rise, and who is ever gonna use more than 5?, It almost took me 5 hours to buy back my tormented demons gear..., it was way faster back before Ge was implemented. the point of GE is the ease of purchasing items and wasting less time, but now i have to search forums, where they never sell as they are bought out, i have to wait to do what i really want to do at the moment

[Carl]

Jagex can do NOTHING serious about Manipulation clans, as the only way is to lock down on the Ge limits, which are already tough.

 

 

 

Now, what you say about how manipulating clans work, isn't completely true. If it's a public channel, like Chessy018, CmRobins and that rubbish, well then, yes, the leader's going to prebuy. If it's a private channel, where you need "X" amount of money to join, and everyone trusts everyone, well then there's no prebuying. The members sometimes will dicuss what item to buyout next, which means there isn't even room for prebuying.

 

Don't tarnish everyone with the one brush, if you have NO idea.

 

Yes, I do run a manipulation channel, and am very proud of it & my members.

[Sir_Kurity]

I sometimes get annoyed at price manipulation, but hey if i was in a decent merchanting clan i would be happy with it :thumbsup: .

 

 

 

Anyway. Merchanting clans really don't affect me that much, and there a few problems are are affected for a long time by merchanting clans (looks at 3rd age) but other than that, effects are temporary, and its all right.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

One of the key reasons that these clans can exist in the first place is that items do not have to have an intrinsic use beyond a way to "compress" cash, if you will. I've stockpiled hundreds of thousands of Maple logs, coal, and about 75K iron, all of which I don't even have to use. (That's not to say that I don't, because I normally will, if I have all that stuff just staring me down in the bank.) Apply that same theory to items such as Barrows, Rune, and Dragon, and manipulators can exist.

 

 

 

It's definitely a problem, but I don't see how anyone (let alone Jagex) can fix it. That is, unless we start telling folks that items need to be used in order for... hmm, don't think that convincing them to use their items for their intended purpose will work...

[valdentia]

I found a forum on RSOF that ridicules this growing problem, it even shows insight on what jagex believes on merchanting

 

 

 

QFC : 14-15-717-58482046

 

 

 

BTW the prices that are influatcting slowly is slowly creating a bubble and soon enough they are going to crash heavily, people would not pay 15mil for a bandos platebody when a dragon platebody costs 10 mil

[kudos6969]

let them merchant items its a good idea of making money, if they lie to people then people should try to report or get on with it, but it doesnt affect you, unless you are only buying items in the hope you can sell them for what you paid them for.

 

 

 

It is unfortunate that an item has been dumped on the market that you owned but often enough items ive owned such as bandos/armadyl sets get bought out and go up in price, and i often sell my set of each for profit then use black hide/rune for a few days untill its gone down again.

 

 

 

This is a 2 way street and i dont feel its a problem at all.

[Kolgan]

to ppl who buy stuff to keep it like forever, merchants dont matter. But see it like this. you train you character and gain more money along the way. when reaching certain lvls you would like to purchase somthing new/higher requirements. Then you have to get rid of the old equipment, you sell it. and due to the ability to train very fast nowadays, ppl often buy/sell their stuff, and are dissapointed when they see their stuff has dropped 2m. the same counts for slayer tasks where the point is to have items wich are most effective and stimulate allot of equipment swapping.

[Vann]

Carl-Dublin when are you gonna let me in #bloodmoney?

 

 

 

OT: I personally stick to solo (unless I get into a good clan) to pay for my skilling. As my current goal is 99 crafting, I do solo merching and flipping to pay for my losses. I average about 1.2m profit per 24 hrs (800k-1.4m) when I am not lazy and feel like spending 5 mins putting in offer and another 5 selling. Now the past 2 weeks I've been lazy and have done no flipping and have just been spending money on QP cape stats and crafting (and 1.3m on using my fm brawlers).

 

 

 

Point of my post, pay attention to graphs and think a little and you won't get wtfpwt by manipulators.

 

 

 

Peace,

 

Vann

[killerbeer0]

I personally only invest in items that are stable or I'll have for a long time.

 

 

 

I make most of my money off the manipulators and I only have 10m to work with. Stupid people are the problem not the manipulators.