Ah... another of Dooku's "novel topics". This will be long, so bear with me. Strap in your seatbelts and fly down the - OK I'm making no sense. Best we start.

 

 

 

NOTE: Although this topic contains some "suggestions", it in itself is NOT a suggestion (rather a discussion of Champions' Challenge) so please don't move it.

 

 

 

I've been thinking about Champions' Challenge lately. The mini-game has a simple concept - collect 10 extremely rare drops, gaining a reward from each along the way, in order to defeat the boss for the ultimate reward and recognition.

 

 

 

But there's a few problems. The rewards are neither ultimate nor are the "bosses" difficult. And there is no recognition for the extremely hard work involved in completing this mini-game. Those who have are true masters.

 

 

 

One thing I considered was that the mini-game was "too hard" for its rewards, and that it should be made easier through the addition of a certain something that has applications in many other areas in RuneScape. This addition is not really related to Champions' Challenge, but it will discuss it later.

 

 

 

Now, you may say that Champions' Challenge is unimportant, and we should pay attention to other poorly designed mini-games like Trouble Brewing... but Champions' Challenge is more of a mini-quest, and I think the concept of an extremely difficult one-time achievement is something valuable to any MMORPG. First of all, let us assume it takes 10,000 kills to obtain a Champion scroll, and let's use Jogres as an example. You will earn 2.8 MILLION experience to a combat skill obtaining the scroll, yet your reward is a measly 280 Hitpoints and Slayer XP. Interestingly, the experience reward is always 4 times the champion's HP level. More interestingly, it USED to be 40 times!! Jagex nerfed the Champions' Challenge mini-game even more than it was originally! I'll bet you didn't know that. Now, you could say you've already gotten your experience reward killing the monsters, but how is that fair? It's like the scroll is simply a counter. The rewards definitely need revamping, and perhaps Hitpoints and Slayer XP is a bit too... predictable.

 

 

 

What I would like to see is a collection of special items that can assist you on RuneScape tasks of all types... 10 in total, 1 from each champion. And then the ultimate reward from the human champion... the Achievement Cape of Champions.

 

 

 

Before I discuss these items (and the most important of them), let us discuss the difficulty of the battles. All the champions are roughly double the equivalent normal monster's level and HP... but I'm pretty sure Bruce Lee was a LOT more than only 2 times more powerful than the average human... Shouldn't these monsters be just a BIT more powerful? Perhaps 5 times their normal level? (And shouldn't the FINAL boss be higher level than all the others? Why is the lesser demon higher level than Leon d'Cour?!) This would bring the levels to:

 

 

 

Lesser Demon Champion - level 410 - 395 HP

 

Jogre Champion - level 265 - 350 HP

 

Earth Warrior Champion - level 255 - 270 HP

 

Ghoul Champion - level 210 - 250 HP

 

Giant Champion - level 140 - 175 HP

 

Hobgoblin Champion - level 140 - 145 HP

 

Zombies Champion - level 125 - 150 HP

 

Skeleton Champion - level 105 - 120 HP

 

Goblin Champion - level 25 - 60 HP

 

Imp Champion - level 10 - 40 HP

 

 

 

These levels MUCH more accurately fit the title of "Champion"... and the human champion could be... let's say 250 times more powerful than a normal Lumbridge man?

 

 

 

Leon d'Cour - level 500 - 1750 HP (perhaps knock off 1000 HP since that's a bit high, but personally I think 1750 would be very cool)

 

 

 

It's called Champions' CHALLENGE for a reason. Getting all 10 champions' challenges will most likely get you around 110+ combat (assuming 10k kills each, that is 15.64 MILLION combat XP).

 

 

 

The other Champions of Champions could also be introduced...

 

 

 

TzHaar Champion - level 745 - 700 HP

 

Werewolf Champion - level 440 - 500 HP

 

Elf Champion - level 540 - 525 HP

 

Gnome Champion - level 115 - 155 HP

 

Dwarf Champion - level 50 - 80 HP

 

 

 

Now... about the items. There are ten in total; each are extremely useful, and are expensive (bought from a shop). They are also untradeable. One item I had an idea for was the Ring of Fate. What this ring would do is guarantee you would get the rarest drop of whatever monster you are fighting, but there's a catch. You have to kill EXACTLY 1.5x the amount of monsters than the drop rate. Let's assume a Champion scroll is a 1:5000 chance. You could get it on your 1st, 50th, 2857th or 18637th kill. Wearing the ring, you would get a scroll - guaranteed - on your 7,500th kill. Now, each item would be unlocked after a number of champion kills; you can't pick any item each time you make a kill. This ring should be the 10th item... this way it would be quite a fair item because:

 

 

 

You need to get TEN items which are roughly a 1 in 5000 to 10,000 chance of obtaining

 

You can't use the ring to defeat any of the champions as it is the last item

 

It costs millions of coins

 

It's a trade-off... using the ring, you're guaranteed to get the rarest item on the xTH kill... no later... but no earlier, either; without the ring you might get it on your first

 

 

 

Considering this, a ring of that caliber is quite fair considering the INCREDIBLE amount of work required.

 

 

 

A few more of the item ideas I had were:

 

 

 

Crozier of Faith - Allows you to use 2 protection prayers at once. Item #9.

 

 

 

Staff of nature - The name says it all. A staff that supplies infinite nature runes. This one's a bit iffy, but considering the extreme difficulty, it may not ruin the economy. The Jagex balancers would have to investigate this more. Some people DO have 200m mining XP, after all. Item #8.

 

 

 

Multitool - This one's a bit more realistic. Allows you to combine every skill tool in the game into one item: dragon hatchet, dragon pickaxe, knife, tinderbox, all types of fishing equipment (no bait), all farming tools, all hunter tools, all slayer weapons and shields, needle, pestle and mortar, saw, hammer and omni-talisman. Also allows one weapon and shield of each combat type, respectively. The final "Multitool" is untradeable. Players can only have one. Losing the Multitool will result in all your items being saved. The next Multitool you obtain will keep all your items. Your Multitool will automatically transform into whatever you need at the time, in an orange burst of magic. Item #7.

 

 

 

That's all I've got for now.

 

 

 

Summary

 

 

 

The most important ideas introduced in this topic are:

 

 

 

- EXTREMELY powerful items introduced through the PERFECT-fitting mini-game.

 

- Bringing a long-forgotten mini-game to the forefront of every player's RuneScape career.

 

- A TRUE high level update!

 

 

 

Also, I have started a clan for people who are interested in Champions' Challenge. We are trying to build a community that, with the recent involvement of Jagex with its players' communities', could potentially have a strong hand in bringing Champions' Challenge up to the stardard of an EPIC mini-game/quest. Please see our topic here: viewtopic.php?f=173&t=793241

 

 

 

If you want to move right on to our website, that's here: http://www.championsguild.ath.cx/

Multitool - This one's a bit more realistic. Allows you to combine every skill tool in the game into one item: dragon hatchet, dragon pickaxe, knife, tinderbox, all types of fishing equipment (no bait), all farming tools, all hunter tools, all slayer weapons and shields, needle, pestle and mortar, saw, hammer and omni-talisman. Also allows one weapon and shield of each combat type, respectively. The final "Multitool" is untradeable. Players can only have one. Losing the Multitool will result in all your items being saved. The next Multitool you obtain will keep all your items. Your Multitool will automatically transform into whatever you need at the time, in an orange burst of magic. Item #7.

 

 

 

I understand the concept and idea of this item, but how exactly would it work, for example, would you just go up to a tree with this "multi-tool" in your back pack, click on the tree and it would transform into a hatchet? Or would you have to right click it and click transform into.., then a list would come up saying transform into.., hatchet, net, tinderbox, fishing rod ect..

Multitool - This one's a bit more realistic. Allows you to combine every skill tool in the game into one item: dragon hatchet, dragon pickaxe, knife, tinderbox, all types of fishing equipment (no bait), all farming tools, all hunter tools, all slayer weapons and shields, needle, pestle and mortar, saw, hammer and omni-talisman. Also allows one weapon and shield of each combat type, respectively. The final "Multitool" is untradeable. Players can only have one. Losing the Multitool will result in all your items being saved. The next Multitool you obtain will keep all your items. Your Multitool will automatically transform into whatever you need at the time, in an orange burst of magic. Item #7.

 

 

 

I understand the concept and idea of this item, but how exactly would it work, for example, would you just go up to a tree with this "multi-tool" in your back pack, click on the tree and it would transform into a hatchet? Or would you have to right click it and click transform into.., then a list would come up saying transform into.., hatchet, net, tinderbox, fishing rod ect..

 

 

 

Entirely automatic. But there's more to it than these new proposed rewards. What do you think of the whole Champions' Challenge situation? Do you agree the minigame is poorly designed? Do you think the rewards should be increased, or the difficulty decreased? A combination? Please post your thoughts! :)

Yes, i do agree the Mini-game's poorly designed, And i think that both the difficulty and rewards should both be increased, just to keep it even, (Difficulty goes up which = Rewards Increased) And i think you have some very interesting and useful ideas here :

Trouble Brewing is not a poorly designed minigame. It is a poorly PLACED minigame with poorly decided REQUIREMENTS. It's so out-of-the-way that most people forget about it, and plus the quests leading up to Cabin Fever have pretty med-high requirements, driving away the low-level base. But in reality, it's a great minigame.

 

 

 

A poorly designed minigame would be gnomeball and gnome delivery. You can argue the Games Room too.

I can think of some other item rewards.

 

Silver mask - like black mask but for range and magic. costs 800k

 

Icyene amulet - same bonuses as fury, 5m cost, allows one handed saradomin sword usage.

 

Winged boots - set a destination for them(Click operate anywhere on the map, and a flag appears on it) and you can operate the boots to go there instantly, costs 850k, would need to have some areas that cannot have flags on them.

 

Soul Sigil - used on an onyx ring to create a sacraficial ring, allows instant access to a godwar room, without killcount, can be used five times per ring, sigil costs 100k.

 

 

 

How about a new spell reward? I love being creative :lol:

 

Ancient force - basically slayer dart on steroids, normal spellbook, can hit up to 40, requires 3 deaths, 2 bloods and 25 minds

 

Comes with a new staff, the Demons scourge, Which is slayer staff with 1.7 times the abilities all around.

 

 

 

Well, there we go, I'm all out of brainpower now.

 

You can decide if you don't like any of them, what order to go in, if they need any changes...etc.

A little extreme in terms of rewards.

 

 

 

As for the Champion Challenge in general, there have been many similar suggestions. See here:

 

 

 

Champion's Challenge in dire need of an update

 

 

 

The Champions of Champions (My idea on the matter)

I can think of some other item rewards.

 

Silver mask - like black mask but for range and magic. costs 800k

 

Icyene amulet - same bonuses as fury, 5m cost, allows one handed saradomin sword usage.

 

Winged boots - set a destination for them(Click operate anywhere on the map, and a flag appears on it) and you can operate the boots to go there instantly, costs 850k, would need to have some areas that cannot have flags on them.

 

Soul Sigil - used on an onyx ring to create a sacraficial ring, allows instant access to a godwar room, without killcount, can be used five times per ring, sigil costs 100k.

 

 

 

How about a new spell reward? I love being creative :lol:

 

Ancient force - basically slayer dart on steroids, normal spellbook, can hit up to 40, requires 3 deaths, 2 bloods and 25 minds

 

Comes with a new staff, the Demons scourge, Which is slayer staff with 1.7 times the abilities all around.

 

 

 

Well, there we go, I'm all out of brainpower now.

 

You can decide if you don't like any of them, what order to go in, if they need any changes...etc.

 

 

 

I liked everything except the Icyene amulet... it's a bit too specific-purpose, these rewards should be useful in more global situations. I especially liked the winged boots - certainly something a lot of people would want.

 

 

 

A little extreme in terms of rewards.

 

 

 

As for the Champion Challenge in general, there have been many similar suggestions. See here:

 

 

 

Champion's Challenge in dire need of an update

 

 

 

The Champions of Champions (My idea on the matter)

 

 

 

The rewards are hardly extreme seeing as you must get an EXTREMELY rare item ten times. I believe there are around 50 people in all of RuneScape who've finished it? Also remember these rewards would cost tens of millions of coins and would be untradeable.

 

 

 

There seems to be an opinion that old players who've been around since 1999 deserve party hats and such for free because they're old, but in my opinion those who work hard are far more deserving.

 

 

 

Also, thanks for the links, I will check them out.

Updating Champions Challenge is a great idea; I feel like Jagex has abandoned it :shame:

 

 

 

But your ideas for rewards are no good; they are very unrealistic.

 

tbh, no rewards is fine; making the champs harder equaling more glory is fine for me.

Champion Scroll is a minigame?!?!?!?

 

I though it was an accomplishment.

Champion Scroll is a minigame?!?!?!?

 

I though it was an accomplishment.

 

 

 

More a mini-quest, actually... but yeah it's certainly an accomplishment. One of the most important things is that we need something to show for it!

Love me some Dooku thread.

 

 

 

I agree absolutely, Champions Challenge was pretty poorly implemented, considering it's one of the rarest untradeable drops in the game, there's no recognition for defeating any of the champions.

 

 

 

My idea I concocted around the time construction came out was a banner for the player to wear, that went on their back and came over their head, like this: http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3582/35820334rj4.jpg

 

 

 

It uses the cape slot. The rewards would be something as follows:

 

 

 

Foremost, by defeating their champion and wearing their banner, you send fear into the hearts of their race, most races will leave you alone rather than initiate combat. I updated it for the God Wars Dungeon.

 

 

 

Lesser Demon Champion - All demons will be unaggressive towards you, serves same purpose as a Zamorak item in GWD, increases drop potential at demons. While wielding, you unlock a previous untapped rage towards Zamorakian creatures, and gain a bonus attack against them.

 

 

 

Jogre Champion - All ogres will be unaggressive, Bandos item in GWD, the banner reminds you of your experiences in the jungle. As a result, the effects of being poisoned are halved, including poison received from another player's attacks.

 

 

 

Earth Warrior Champion - You are the new Earth Warrior Champion, and have gained the respect of the Earth Warriors. Drop is unlocked, an untradeable reagant for summoning an earth warrior, a fierce warrior. The second ingredient is granite, the summoning level required would be mid to high, and the Earth Warrior summoned would be very powerful melee, but not very good defense.

 

 

 

Ghoul Champion - Even the brainless undead recognize their champion. Zombies/Ghouls will be unaggressive, While wearing this you gain valuable knowledge about the undead, giving you an edge in combat. A new basement level of the Slayer tower is made available for you, it contains no new creatures, but a bunch of high leveled slayer monsters, and serves as an empty training spot.

 

 

 

Giant Champion - You gain the giant's prized possession, a club capable of stunning your opponent until they next take damage, or a few seconds (whichever comes first) as well as knocking them back a few steps. Giants will now be unaggressive, Bandos item in GWD,

 

 

 

I don't have a full list of them, but those are just a few ideas I had.

I can think of some other item rewards.

 

Silver mask - like black mask but for range and magic. costs 800k

 

Icyene amulet - same bonuses as fury, 5m cost, allows one handed saradomin sword usage.

 

Winged boots - set a destination for them(Click operate anywhere on the map, and a flag appears on it) and you can operate the boots to go there instantly, costs 850k, would need to have some areas that cannot have flags on them.

 

Soul Sigil - used on an onyx ring to create a sacraficial ring, allows instant access to a godwar room, without killcount, can be used five times per ring, sigil costs 100k.

 

 

 

How about a new spell reward? I love being creative :lol:

 

Ancient force - basically slayer dart on steroids, normal spellbook, can hit up to 40, requires 3 deaths, 2 bloods and 25 minds

 

Comes with a new staff, the Demons scourge, Which is slayer staff with 1.7 times the abilities all around.

 

 

 

Well, there we go, I'm all out of brainpower now.

 

You can decide if you don't like any of them, what order to go in, if they need any changes...etc.

 

 

 

I liked everything except the Icyene amulet... it's a bit too specific-purpose, these rewards should be useful in more global situations. I especially liked the winged boots - certainly something a lot of people would want.

 

 

Thats a good point, but the icyene amulet would bring the saradomin sword up to being the same as a whip, thus making strength the same speed as attack or defense.

 

Now this is something many, many players have wanted, but have dismissed since they accepted it would never happen.Well, with this, it can happen, and it wouldn't be overpowered in any way, either, seeing as how there would only be around 1:25 people able to use this amulet.

Didn't SirHemen just make a thread on this?

 

 

 

Anyways, the mini game itself is not "poorly designed", it is simply designed for a older time. A time when the majority of the Runescape population was under 100 combat. Now days a huge number of players have a much higher combat and rewards on average give much much more than they ever used to. So the things that were thought to be difficult/rewarding back then are pushovers now. Hence what happened to this mini game.

 

 

 

An update for it might be in order, but not on the scale you are proposing. You don't really need 100,000 xp or a multi-useful-for-everything tool for the mini game's rewards because that's not what the mini game is designed for. Its designed to be a fun challenge where the only reward is a banner on the wall, not huge amounts of rewards.

 

 

 

The only changes that really need to be done is *slightly* improving the chance for a drop of a scroll, adding more champions from different species, and perhaps a wieldable banner/fun-item from each race (as stated above).

 

 

 

Any more to the mini game and I think your going to over-saturate it from its original purpose. There shouldn't be 1000, or even 100 people who have completed every champion. This challenge is one of those things where only the best of the best who put many many hours into it can complete the mini game.

Sounds good! I've never aspired to getting a champion scroll drop for any other reason than it being rare. The fights are pretty pathetic and the rewards even more so. If you're looking for supporters - count me in. :)

Yes i agree, the fights are quite pathetic, i managed to obtain a Hill giant champion scroll, (i was about 75 combat at the time) and i barely needed any food if not none, so yes, lots of room for improvement.

I just think the champion scrolls are too hard to get. I've only gotten 3 or so.

Leon d'Cour would be way overpowered with 1750 or even 750 because you are not allowed to take anything not wield-able into the area with him. You don't mention anything about these rules in the post so are you suggesting they be taken out? These rules are half the fun.

The bosses dont need to be harder and there doesnt need to be way overpowered new items introduced. But a cape or maybe even bracelet of each champion that acknowledges you have killed them to show off to other players would be fine.

Personally, I believe that the bosses deserve to be absurdly hard, to follow up an already extremely difficult minigame.

 

I think death needs to be a real risk here, like at the corporeal beast. Jagex created a boss that often KO's players, and that was a very good decision, there is a real sense of danger, since there is a good chance that you will not get your items back, now why can't they do the same thing with this?

 

They need to test the steel of even the most hardened players, then those players need to be rewarded greatly if successful.

Personally, I believe that the bosses deserve to be absurdly hard, to follow up an already extremely difficult minigame.

 

I think death needs to be a real risk here, like at the corporeal beast. Jagex created a boss that often KO's players, and that was a very good decision, there is a real sense of danger, since there is a good chance that you will not get your items back, now why can't they do the same thing with this?

 

They need to test the steel of even the most hardened players, then those players need to be rewarded greatly if successful.

 

 

 

+1

 

Yes

i agree that the rewards are seiously out of whack.. but your scaling is a bit too high... 1750 hp? thats nearly Corporeal beast! Id preferr if ythe scrolls were made much more common, BUT! they released a new series of scrolls for higher leveled monsters that are much more difficult.

i agree that the rewards are seiously out of whack.. but your scaling is a bit too high... 1750 hp? thats nearly Corporeal beast! Id preferr if ythe scrolls were made much more common, BUT! they released a new series of scrolls for higher leveled monsters that are much more difficult.

 

That would eliminate the point of the whole thing.

 

We're trying to discuss an appropriate way to continue this insanely difficult challenge, and reward those who are brave and tactical enough to defeat it.

 

We don't want to make it easier, we want to make it incredibly hard to defeat, we want it to be dangerous and test even players with maxed out stats.

 

And we want those who are great enough to be successful to be rewarded extremely well.

 

 

 

Once again - We DO NOT want it made easier, not by any means. Quite the opposite, we want to make it insanely difficult.

 

 

 

I'm thinking along these lines:

 

The normal scroll champs have their levels multiplied by four(As has already been stated) and have their rewards multipled by around 40.

 

The ten REAL rewards come from the race champions,

 

So a few new races may need to enter into the champions hall, but these ten rewards need to be incredibly powerful, and the champion's of champion's need to be incredibly difficult to defeat.

Goblin champion of champion= Ourg. :lol:

 

I think part of the reason nobody grinds for the scrolls, as I think has already been stated, the rewards are tiny compared to the effort taken to obtain the scroll for a fight that normally takes less than a minute.

The normal scroll champs have their levels multiplied by four.

 

 

 

I think rather than a static level, a level similar to the old Evil Chicken random would be more appropriate. This way the champion level would get higher the higher combat you are, always ensuring there would be a fair challenge across the board regardless of your combat.

 

 

 

Champions of Champions could be set in classes, such as:

 

Demons (Lesser, Greater, Imp..)

 

Giants (Jogre, Ogre, Giant..)

 

Undead (Zombie, Ghoul, Shade..)

 

Fiends (Waterfiends, Pyrefiends, Icefiends..)

 

Ect..

 

 

 

Either way, If they make scrolls slightly more common and widen the amount of champions, it will greatly improve the game without the need to boost any of the rewards huge amounts. For defeating any champion there should be a 5k slayer reward and a lamp able to give 5k xp in any skill. If there were 40+ champions this small reward would well be enough to make the mini game worth it.