Wongtong Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I just watched a story on the news: [hide=Online Article]http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/alleged-exorcism-leads-manslaughter-trial-2698766 One of the most unusual court cases in recent history has begun at the Wellington High Court. Nine people from one family are accused of killing 22-year-old Janet Moses, by drowning her in an exorcism to rid her of a makutu or curse. The six women and three men pleaded not guilty to killing her. The prosecution opened its case on Monday afternoon following legal argument about name suppression which the accused have at present. Moses is believed to have drowned during the apparent exorcism at her grandparents' home in Wainuiomata in October 2007 while around 40 members of her family looked on. The accused believed a makutu or evil spirit possessed the young mother of two and that they alone could cure her in a homestyle exorcism. The accused believed the demon had entered Janet after her sister had stolen a lion statue from a Wairarapa pub. They took Janet to a tiny Wanuiomata house where they began a water-cleansing ceremony that lasted three days. Water passed hand to hand from the kitchen tap and poured for hours down her throat until the house was flooded and Janet lay dead. After a seven-week investigation police arrested the accused. Justice Simon France told the jurors the trial was not about whether or not they believed in exorcism. It was whether an unlawful act had been committed. One of the women and another man have also denied ill-treating a 14-year-old causing her unnecessary suffering. The defence says Janet Moses consented to the ceremony. The trial is expected to last up to six weeks.[/hide] Because that story was posted on the internet in the morning (6:54am), they didn't publish all the new information that was reported in the live news story at 7:00pm. So basically what happened (including things that weren't included in the online article) was that a New Zealand woman, Janet Moses' sister, stole a stone statue from a pub. Her family believed that Janet had been cursed, so a group of 9 people (including family members) passed tap water between hands and poured it all over her face for hours. They opened her mouth and forced a spoon inside her mouth to stop her from swallowing the water and continued to pour the water on her face and into her mouth. Some people even tried putting their mouths on her eyeballs and sucking so that the curse would be sucked out. In the end, she died from drowning. The group of people then suspected that a 14 year old girl in the same house had also been cursed and blew cigarette smoke into her eyeballs. ------------------------------------ What are your views on this story? Should the group of people be charged for manslaughter? After all, they did not intend to cause bodily harm or kill someone. What are your views on exorcism in general? 8,180WONGTONG IS THE BEST AND IS MORE SUPERIOR THAN ME#1 Wongtong stalker.Im looking for some No Limit soldiers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Wow. Weird. :| Let me get this straight, these people think a demon had entered this person's body after that person stole a statue. So they tried to 'cleanse' her with water? And they ended up killing her... Weird. :? #KERR2016/17/18/19/20/21. #rpgformod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_love_burritos Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Frankly, I believe its for minsinformed nutjobs. Unfortunate incident really, but happens far more often in other parts of the world than one would think. As for the group being charged for manslaughter, I don't really see what's wrong with that, but all of them should really be mentally evaluated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Ooo looks like they were the ones possessed by demons. She should've got them before they got her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenin64 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I didn't realize that tap water fended off demons these days. Must be all that flouride. Command the Murderous Chalices! Drink ye harpooners! drink and swear, ye men that man the deathful whaleboat's bow- Death to Moby Dick!BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Trying to suck the demon out?! This is why exorcism should be left up to His divine Inquisition, not average citizens. Who knows what foul taint could infect their untrained minds when they venture so close to the machinations of the ruinous powers? Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 It's a tragic and completely appalling story. They should be charged with manslaughter. The fact that they thought they were doing a good thing is no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirudaymi Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Well, obviously the people doing the "exorcism" believed it would work. They didn't intend to kill the woman, so I don't know if they should all be tryed as murderers. :| An unfortunate incident rather than a murder, really.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 It's a tragic and completely appalling story. They should be charged with manslaughter. The fact that they thought they were doing a good thing is no excuse. Admittedly, a lot of murderers who intentionally kill someone else believe that they were doing a good thing. Otherwise they wouldn't kill them. I just wish that people could be better educated in the world. There is no such thing as a curse/demon, and there isn't any logic or reason about why passing water via people's hands then forcing it into her mouth would solve the problem even if it did exist. What were these people thinking? ~ W ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I didn't realize that tap water fended off demons these days. Must be all that flouride. :lol: yes, they should be charged with manslaughter, simply due to the method of exorcism they used on top of the fact they certainly appear to have been negligent. If they had used incense in the ceremony(hypothetically) and she had an allergic reaction to the smoke it would be a different matter, but I see no reason to justify pouring water on someone for hours. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 The whole point of manslaughter is that it's killing someone without intent, and in this case was involuntary. Yes they should be charged with it. Make an example of them and hopefully others won't follow. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 What the hell. How is that even an exorcism. Sounds more like they just didn't really like Janet. That's horrible, man. A real exorcism isn't waterboarding and smoke. These guys need to be charged with something. Exorcism is kinda stupid in my opinion, and most people don't really believe in demons or whatever taking over bodies, but when your kid's acting really wierd and you can't control them, I guess they just get desperate. Still, leave it in the hands of the dude who sprinkles holy water on them and then gets eaten, while we film and sell it. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wongtong Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 I'd like to remind people that it was her sister that stole the statue, not Janet herself. :| The accused believed the demon had entered Janet after her sister had stolen a lion statue from a Wairarapa pub. 8,180WONGTONG IS THE BEST AND IS MORE SUPERIOR THAN ME#1 Wongtong stalker.Im looking for some No Limit soldiers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku3220 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I'd like to remind people that it was her sister that stole the statue, not Janet herself. :| The accused believed the demon had entered Janet after her sister had stolen a lion statue from a Wairarapa pub. Why didn't they just punish the sister for stealing and get on with their lives? Like, what "symptoms" did she have to make them beleive she had a demon in her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinjula Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I think you need to be incredibly careful when overlaying your own cultural bias onto someone elses culture. I'm not remotely saying that they were right, I'm saying it is foolishness of the highest degree to judge. We haven't seen the evidence, newpapers ALWAYS hype a story up to the nth degree, so that they can sell their paper. Let the judge decide what he decides, THAT is what he is there for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElkNight Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 That is just [developmentally delayed]ed. This reminds me of the guy that dumped a girls body in the ocean because "she looked like she was dead." :wall: 8,180WONGTONG IS THE BEST AND IS MORE SUPERIOR THAN ME#1 Wongtong stalker.Im looking for some No Limit soldiers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Jay99 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 That is just [developmentally delayed]. This reminds me of the guy that dumped a girls body in the ocean because "she looked like she was dead." :wall: Joran van der Sloot? :mrgreen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I think you need to be incredibly careful when overlaying your own cultural bias onto someone elses culture. I'm not remotely saying that they were right, I'm saying it is foolishness of the highest degree to judge. We haven't seen the evidence, newpapers ALWAYS hype a story up to the nth degree, so that they can sell their paper. Let the judge decide what he decides, THAT is what he is there for. This kind of thing happened in my culture too, but it stopped hundreds of years ago as people were educated. So there is no relevant cultural difference to speak about, it's poor education. ~ W ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Seems like manslaughter would be in order. Even if they didn't intend to kill her, they still did. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren0gade Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 So they poured water down her throat...what the hell that doesn't sound like an exorcism. She got possessed from taking an object from a bar... gimmi a break. Was there even a priest present from the church to conduct the ceremony? Legally though, they still killed her it doesn't matter if it was unintentional or not, so I think they should be charged with manslaughter even if she agreed to conduct the ritual. Masta Chef Drops-- Dragon: Medium(2),Spear(1),Legs(2),Skirt(1) Pharaoh's Scepter(1) Barrows items(10 total) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieMcD Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Another death that can be attributed to the ignorance / fear caused by religion. That is seriously [developmentally delayed]ed, it defies all logic. She broke a law, stealing a statue which of courses means she's occupied by an evil spirit sent by the dark lord himself :roll: I can see this winning a Darwin award in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaners1212 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Sounds like Salem. These people should definitely be charged. It has nothing to do with if she was possessed or that it was an exorcism and there was some extent of consent - they tortured her until she was dead. The people who do things like that need to be suffocated until they realize what they're isn't going to cure someones mental issues. Back to P2p soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren0gade Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Another death that can be attributed to the ignorance / fear caused by religion.. =D> i laughed at that statement... so true Masta Chef Drops-- Dragon: Medium(2),Spear(1),Legs(2),Skirt(1) Pharaoh's Scepter(1) Barrows items(10 total) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legio Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Wow. This is just stupid. Water getting rid of demons? Really now? I personally do believe in demons, and demon possessions, but this is just stupid. A needless death. I say the people who committed this murder should be sentenced to die by their own methods. May fate be kind to you, my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joes_So_Cool Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Seems like manslaughter would be in order. Even if they didn't intend to kill her, they still did. Agreeeed. Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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