Baby P

[Kiriyama]

Wow, you people are really messed up in the head.

 

 

 

Yeah, what they did was terrible, but you guys are just as [bleep]in' bad with your "Torture them!" crap. I'm with Silver and Derek, I'm sick of you guys.

 

 

 

Lock them up in solitary, with nothing but the basics to sustain themselves for 25+ years. That's what they deserve.

 

 

 

However, I strongly disagree with their names being released to the general public. I mean, paedophiles get a lot of [cabbage] from people, even years down the line, not that I agree with what they have done, however, they've served their sentence, and the public should not take laws into their own hands.

 

 

 

But really, you guys are just acting tough. If you ever saw these people, you'd just walk past.

 

 

 

Stop spouting all your "justice" crap. Toturing/killing them is not justice. It's vengence. Justice works for both sides, vengence is just self-gratification.

 

 

 

If you people really believe that they should be tortured/killed, let's see you guys [bleep]in' do it if you ever see them. Then you'll be begging for justice, and not vengence.

 

 

 

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[EdgedThesis]

^Agreed.

 

I thought the problem was of sustaining inmates though.

 

Which is why I turned the situation around and made them potential organ/research pools.

 

Achieve more in death than they could in life, etc.

 

 

 

I bet there are laws against refusal to bury convicts, though.

 

 

 

All the vengeance posts were just waded through. You see them everywhere, and the feeling you get from reading them can largely be described as 'meh'. You phase them out.

[transcript80]

This kind of stories always make me doubt about re-instating capital punishment...

[justcallmedaddy]

I really believe that some of you really need to think carefully about your responses to threads like these. All you ever say is "kill them" - well, what is that going to solve? Sure, taxpayer's money, so on, but I can't bring myself to believe that taking another human's life is the correct course of action regardless of the circumstances. They did a terrible thing and there's no denying that, but you're taking it too far in my eyes by saying such things. It's pretty much what other posters have already said before me: eye for an eye BS and such.

 

 

 

I don't believe in atoning for one's crimes either. I'm a firm believer in what's done is done; you can't go back and change it.

 

 

 

Ugh. I'm just fed up with seeing the same stupid replies in every thread like this. Grow up.

 

 

 

They should all get life sentences. Throw their [wagon] back in jail!

...

 

 

 

Let's not just have jails and let everyone get away with anything with no punishment whatsoever.

[Azvareth]

Let's not just have jails and let everyone get away with anything with no punishment whatsoever.

 

Please link to a post in this thread where someone even vaguely hinted at that, forums poster justcallmedaddy.

[justcallmedaddy]

Let's not just have jails and let everyone get away with anything with no punishment whatsoever.

 

Please link to a post in this thread where someone even vaguely hinted at that, forums poster justcallmedaddy.

 

 

 

I was stating my own opinion, forum poster Azvareth.

[Azvareth]

Let's not just have jails and let everyone get away with anything with no punishment whatsoever.

 

Please link to a post in this thread where someone even vaguely hinted at that, forums poster justcallmedaddy.

 

 

 

I was stating my own opinion, forum poster Azvareth.

 

 

 

That was terrible.

[psvstef]

Let's not just have jails and let everyone get away with anything with no punishment whatsoever.

 

Please link to a post in this thread where someone even vaguely hinted at that, forums poster justcallmedaddy.

 

 

 

I was stating my own opinion, forum poster Azvareth.

 

 

 

why did you quote someone then?

[Guy]

I'm like Silver. I'm so unbelievably sick of everyone saying in every single thread like this 'Oohh guys I'd tell you what I'd do to them, torture is too nice, blah blah' .. just no. They're horrible, horrible human beings. They torture babies. Do you want to lower yourself to the level of a baby torturer?

 

 

 

It's also very irritating, cliche, and repetative.

 

 

 

Not to mention, in my opinion, a life in solitary confinement is one of the worst possible punishments you can have. Just think about it - for the next x (assumably 50) years of your life, you will never talk to another person. You will never be able to contribute, or have fun, or have a life, or do anything normal whatsoever. Everyday will be spent with yourself, just thinking to yourself, every single day. Thinking 'How could I do that?'.

 

 

 

I don't know about you all, but I'd easily take 2 months of torture then execution than even 15 years in solitary. I couldn't be able to handle being so godawful bored and left to myself.

 

 

 

honestly for something like this, "an eye for an eye" wouldnt be good enough. it should be more like "an eye for an eye, a foot, 4 fingers and a lung"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

let em rot in prison for the rest of their life :thumbup: and not in solitary, either

 

 

 

Again, you're repeating the cliche of every thing everyone has said in every threat like this.

 

 

 

Also, they wouldn't be rotting in prison if they're in the general population. They'd probably be stabbed or choked or some form of death.

 

 

 

Gah.

 

 

 

/rant

 

 

 

Completely agree with that. Just stick them in solitary for the rest of their lives. No one to talk to, not even seeing the guards.. It's ridiculous how they're only getting 3 years.

 

 

 

And also, please, don't turn this into a flame war.

[ThurinEthir]

There's an interpretation of the "eye for an eye" statement I read somewhere...It's not for revenge, it's for justice. It's there to make sure there is punishment. Kings, slaves - if they commit the same crime, they'll get the same punishment. If a king kills someone, he'll be killed. If a slave kills someone, he'll be killed too. Both get punished.

 

 

 

These people are no worse than any other torturers or murderers. Killing a baby is basically the same crime as killing an adult. So they should be given the same punishment. I suppose a few years is kind of light, but there really is no need to torture them.

 

Oh, and I'm against capital punishment (and you guys don't have that in Britain, if I remember correctly?) so I wouldn't say to kill them either. I suppose I would support a life sentence.

[Zygimantas]

Well, Life sentence in solitary is way worse then the death penalty. The death penalty lets people get away very easy, whats so bad about death anyway? Now, torture is worse then a life sentence, but a life sentence in solitary could be torture itself. We don't want the torturers torturing the prisoners to feel bad and have mental issues later, so I don't think regular torture would work very well. I think they deserve to get a life sentence in solitary, mental torture without making any appointed torturers feel bad.

[Zygimantas]

Well, Life sentence in solitary is way worse then the death penalty. The death penalty lets people get away very easy, whats so bad about death anyway? Now, torture is worse then a life sentence, but a life sentence in solitary could be torture itself. We don't want the torturers torturing the prisoners to feel bad and have mental issues later, so I don't think regular torture would work very well. I think they deserve to get a life sentence in solitary, mental torture without making any appointed torturers feel bad.

 

Torture (i.e. beating, burning waterboarding) is illegal in the US and England I guess as well.

 

 

 

I've said before, in the U.S., they wouldn't get life or the death penalty. They'd get nice big sentences, probably die of old age in prison or the like, but in US law what they did is 1st degree murder, maybe with some other technicality piggy backed onto it. Assuming a US court (I know it's not...) it'd be around 30-35 apiece or more. If there was a ringleader, life or death for him and then less for the others.

I know its illegal. I'm just saying that if I was in charge and there were some different laws or something, I would give them life in solitary confinement.

[Guy]

Well, Life sentence in solitary is way worse then the death penalty. The death penalty lets people get away very easy, whats so bad about death anyway? Now, torture is worse then a life sentence, but a life sentence in solitary could be torture itself. We don't want the torturers torturing the prisoners to feel bad and have mental issues later, so I don't think regular torture would work very well. I think they deserve to get a life sentence in solitary, mental torture without making any appointed torturers feel bad.

 

Torture (i.e. beating, burning waterboarding) is illegal in the US and England I guess as well.

 

 

 

I've said before, in the U.S., they wouldn't get life or the death penalty. They'd get nice big sentences, probably die of old age in prison or the like, but in US law what they did is 1st degree murder, maybe with some other technicality piggy backed onto it. Assuming a US court (I know it's not...) it'd be around 30-35 apiece or more. If there was a ringleader, life or death for him and then less for the others.

 

 

 

They've all got life sentences, but have rediculously short minimum sentences.

 

 

 

About water boarding: It's illegal in the US, but that doesn't stop the CIA, does it?

[Guy]

Well, Life sentence in solitary is way worse then the death penalty. The death penalty lets people get away very easy, whats so bad about death anyway? Now, torture is worse then a life sentence, but a life sentence in solitary could be torture itself. We don't want the torturers torturing the prisoners to feel bad and have mental issues later, so I don't think regular torture would work very well. I think they deserve to get a life sentence in solitary, mental torture without making any appointed torturers feel bad.

 

Torture (i.e. beating, burning waterboarding) is illegal in the US and England I guess as well.

 

 

 

I've said before, in the U.S., they wouldn't get life or the death penalty. They'd get nice big sentences, probably die of old age in prison or the like, but in US law what they did is 1st degree murder, maybe with some other technicality piggy backed onto it. Assuming a US court (I know it's not...) it'd be around 30-35 apiece or more. If there was a ringleader, life or death for him and then less for the others.

 

 

 

They've all got life sentences, but have rediculously short minimum sentences.

 

 

 

About water boarding: It's illegal in the US, but that doesn't stop the CIA, does it?

 

12 years is ridiculously short for one twisted murder? I think it's short but not wildy and crazy out there.

 

 

 

As for the second thing, I'm okay with torture if they're terrorists who pose a large threat to our country.

 

 

 

You've been going on about human rights, but now your saying its ok to infringe them? It wouldn't be so bad, it would still be bad, if the government actually had any evidence whatsoever.. but anyway, back ontopic

[Guy]

Well, Life sentence in solitary is way worse then the death penalty. The death penalty lets people get away very easy, whats so bad about death anyway? Now, torture is worse then a life sentence, but a life sentence in solitary could be torture itself. We don't want the torturers torturing the prisoners to feel bad and have mental issues later, so I don't think regular torture would work very well. I think they deserve to get a life sentence in solitary, mental torture without making any appointed torturers feel bad.

 

Torture (i.e. beating, burning waterboarding) is illegal in the US and England I guess as well.

 

 

 

I've said before, in the U.S., they wouldn't get life or the death penalty. They'd get nice big sentences, probably die of old age in prison or the like, but in US law what they did is 1st degree murder, maybe with some other technicality piggy backed onto it. Assuming a US court (I know it's not...) it'd be around 30-35 apiece or more. If there was a ringleader, life or death for him and then less for the others.

 

 

 

They've all got life sentences, but have rediculously short minimum sentences.

 

 

 

About water boarding: It's illegal in the US, but that doesn't stop the CIA, does it?

 

12 years is ridiculously short for one twisted murder? I think it's short but not wildy and crazy out there.

 

 

 

As for the second thing, I'm okay with torture if they're terrorists who pose a large threat to our country.

 

 

 

You've been going on about human rights, but now your saying its ok to infringe them? It wouldn't be so bad, it would still be bad, if the government actually had any evidence whatsoever.. but anyway, back ontopic

[Zierro]

If someone flames you and you flame them back, that's following the eye for an eye principle. A lot of you say you don't agree with it, but I've seen differently on TIF time and time again.

 

 

 

But really, you guys are just acting tough. If you ever saw these people, you'd just walk past.

 

 

 

You are saying we're trying to show off how hardcore we are and that we would never do anything to those people if we got the chance... fair enough, but nothing is stopping me from saying you guys are showing off how "morally righteous" you are, and that if you did get the chance to do something to them, you would. If someone murdered your whole family and you had a gun in the house, you wouldn't say to yourself, "I hope they get the help they deserve," - you would kill them. It can go both ways. Let's not make ridiculous assumptions about each other though.

[Kiriyama]

Yes, lets not.

 

 

 

Besides, if a guy with a weapon has killed your family, and you go for one, chances are, you'd die while going for it.

 

 

 

If I had the chance to do something to them, I honestly wouldn't. Why? Because I can't bring myself to cause serious harm to another human.

 

 

 

And actually, your whole sitution there is moronic, if someone has murdered your entire family, they're not going to leave you, a friggin' witness.

[Zierro]

Being realistic doesn't matter in the least when we're talking about hypotheticals.

[1_man_army]

On the whole "...if somebody killed your family" argument:

 

 

 

Is is a different issue. A rational opinion over what is best for society is an intellectual argument based on facts and evidence. What you would do if somebody hurt or harmed someone you love or care for is an emotional response and has little relationship to your what you would rationally argue. The argument is irrelevant.

 

 

 

edit - I just realised I had my threads mixed up (with this and the capital punishment one) but the point still stands and is relevant.

[stan18]

In all honesty, Baby P suffered a better fate dying. Had he not died, he would have grown up with likely the same genes that made his mother "insane" or "abnormal", as well as the woman herself.

 

 

 

In other words, if you had some way to read someone's genes and found that they had a predisposition to abnormal ones that would likely lead the child to become a serial killer, would you prevent the baby?

 

 

 

I'm all for the death sentence, btw, for sake of money and society. Most people don't change after ~20 years

[gauper_kid]

In all honesty, Baby P suffered a better fate dying. Had he not died, he would have grown up with likely the same genes that made his mother "insane" or "abnormal", as well as the woman herself.

 

 

 

In other words, if you had some way to read someone's genes and found that they had a predisposition to abnormal ones that would likely lead the child to become a serial killer, would you prevent the baby?

 

 

 

I'm all for the death sentence, btw, for sake of money and society. Most people don't change after ~20 years

 

It takes more than genes to make someone insane.

[Zierro]

Is is a different issue. A rational opinion over what is best for society is an intellectual argument based on facts and evidence. What you would do if somebody hurt or harmed someone you love or care for is an emotional response and has little relationship to your what you would rationally argue. The argument is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Yeah, I suppose you're right there. It is more of an emotion thing, although I still think there's room for the rational argument to be applied too.

 

 

 

It takes more than genes to make someone insane.

 

 

 

Yep, true. Nurture is also responsible for people going insane. And even if the baby did have those genes, the important thing is whether that baby would act on them or not.

[Flodder450]

:thumbdown: just :thumbdown:

 

 

 

both to some low-brained reactions and the turture of the kid

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:2 times :thumbdown:

[Giordano]

Well, Life sentence in solitary is way worse then the death penalty. The death penalty lets people get away very easy, whats so bad about death anyway? Now, torture is worse then a life sentence, but a life sentence in solitary could be torture itself. We don't want the torturers torturing the prisoners to feel bad and have mental issues later, so I don't think regular torture would work very well. I think they deserve to get a life sentence in solitary, mental torture without making any appointed torturers feel bad.

 

Torture (i.e. beating, burning waterboarding) is illegal in the US and England I guess as well.

 

 

 

I've said before, in the U.S., they wouldn't get life or the death penalty. They'd get nice big sentences, probably die of old age in prison or the like, but in US law what they did is 1st degree murder, maybe with some other technicality piggy backed onto it. Assuming a US court (I know it's not...) it'd be around 30-35 apiece or more. If there was a ringleader, life or death for him and then less for the others.

 

 

 

They've all got life sentences, but have rediculously short minimum sentences.

 

 

 

About water boarding: It's illegal in the US, but that doesn't stop the CIA, does it?

 

12 years is ridiculously short for one twisted murder? I think it's short but not wildy and crazy out there.

 

 

 

As for the second thing, I'm okay with torture if they're terrorists who pose a large threat to our country.

 

 

 

You've been going on about human rights, but now your saying its ok to infringe them?

 

Lul wot?

 

 

 

Terrorists are okay to torture but not American citizens? Is it that? Or is it muslims are ok to hurt but not white men?

 

--

 

Anyway, about the "It's not justice its vengeance" thing, isn't the court system revenge?

 

 

 

If a person was murdered, most people would say lock the son of a [bleep] up for life. They're not interested in their recovery; since they took the victim's. It's common human knowledge a punishment is necessary to both punish the criminal, and warn others not to do it in the future. They don't care for the criminal, and so why should the government? Human rights are there to provide happiness. If somebody takes this happiness from another person, why should they deserve happiness?

 

 

 

The rest Zierro said it pretty well.

 

 

 

 

There should be a harsh consequence to crossing the line. I feel that this would prevent the line from being crossed as much. Yes, there will be some people who will commit atrocities no matter what the current punishments are, but there are probably also a lot of people who are desensitized to jail and the risk of getting put back there is worth committing another crime in their eyes.

 

 

 

What should that harsh consequence be? If you cross someone else's line then your line should be crossed over too. If you feel that an innocent human being deserves no empathy and you brutally murder them, then what on earth makes you think you should be any different? If you think there is nothing wrong with murdering someone, fine, but that means it wouldn't be wrong for someone to kill you.

[DerekZoolandah]

If a person was murdered, most people would say lock the son of a [bleep] up for life. They're not interested in their recovery; since they took the victim's. It's common human knowledge a punishment is necessary to both punish the criminal, and warn others not to do it in the future. They don't care for the criminal, and so why should the government? Human rights are there to provide happiness. If somebody takes this happiness from another person, why should they deserve happiness?

 

 

 

When people say lock the person up, why wouldn't you? In all honesty, what are the chances that the person who's actively tortured a person for over a year could be successfully rehabilitated to never have those impulses again? Very very slim, I'd imagine.

 

 

 

But I do believe that you should give people human rights. Just because a person kills another person, why should they be declared less than a human? A big portion of murders aren't the horrible deaths that we hear about. They're likely people who 'just tried' (relatively speaking) to rob someone, or perhaps shot someone in a 'heat of the passion', not tortured a child to death. These people will likely be able to be rehabilitated. There's many former gangsters, killers, robbers, who've realised the mistakes in life they've made and repent and try to become functioning members of society.