The Ban on Minigame Clans?

[Zepheras]

Off to bed, I'll give you a proper reply tomorrow. Just a clue, try applying your silly argument about how everything involving player cooperation should be allowed to 75king tricking. And learn the meaning of result fixing, instead of comparing to cooperative-based minigames like PC. Oh, and freeloading on Trawler fishing has been fixed, I wonder if you even knew that.

 

 

 

You are a hypocrite and because you play SC you just want it to be allowed.

 

Let's just see Jagex tweak how you play the game and you will be the first to whine.

 

 

 

Nice assumption. You finished trolling on RSOF and moved to tipit to further vent your anger on how Jagex fails and this game sucks? Take a break, seriously.

[Dragonlordjl]

 

 

 

Jagex has a history of blaming players for playing the game. When it's their game development that is lacking.;

 

 

 

Yep. Just look at the 350m debacle as an example of that.

[canadiansmurf]

Off to bed, I'll give you a proper reply tomorrow. Just a clue, try applying your silly argument about how everything involving player cooperation should be allowed to 75king tricking. And learn the meaning of result fixing, instead of comparing to cooperative-based minigames like PC. Oh, and freeloading on Trawler fishing has been fixed, I wonder if you even knew that.

 

 

 

^ I never said TRAWLER hadn't been fixed, I said when they fixed trawler & SW they decided to also go a step further with FIXED cooperative GOP which NO PLAYER has complained about.

 

 

 

75k tricking IS STILL HAPPENING. Their changes to wilderness hasn't stopped it. Do you even know that?

 

 

 

 

 

You are a hypocrite and because you play SC you just want it to be allowed.

 

Let's just see Jagex tweak how you play the game and you will be the first to whine.

 

 

 

Nice assumption. You finished trolling on RSOF and moved to tipit to further vent your anger on how Jagex fails and this game sucks? Take a break, seriously.

 

 

 

^ Funny I find you to be the troll. 99% of people posting on this thread support it, and you are the ONLY one defending jagex. You are probably a Jagex employee in disguise.

[Ravenkana]

 

 

 

Jagex has a history of blaming players for playing the game. When it's their game development that is lacking.;

 

 

 

Yep. Just look at the 350m debacle as an example of that.

Exactly. But in the past, Jagex usually had some solid or big content just around the corner that could nicely distract dissenters. The best example is the hype and release of Summoning shortly after the controversial trade limits. In the past, they released enough regular, strong content that players could ignore poorly done minigames, stupid rules, or customer abuse. But now that most updates are insignificant and poorly done, the complaints are piling up and the dissenters have nothing to placate them. Jagex is on thin ice, it's creaking, and they've four months to go.

[canadiansmurf]

customer abuse

 

 

 

I real life LOL'd at this.

 

 

 

Jagex does this so often it's not even funny.

 

 

 

Probably because most players are kids, and they think they won't complain.

 

 

 

I loved how we were told that now that the issues with RWT were resolved after trade limits that Jagex could provide better customer service to it's players, and then they basically shut down customer service by taking away a way to contact jagex.

 

 

 

I loved how I finally thought Jagex was listening to it's players about stopping updates that are deserted the first week after release to fill in existing skills and tweak existing game game to make it useful and not deserted. But now it's almost September and we have barely seen any upgrades or updates, let alone good ones.

 

 

 

I love how if you complain about the game, they just shrug and label you as one of the problem higher levels who are burnt out on the game, so your opinions are biased. Even though there actually is very meagre higher level content. And then they promise that high level content is just around the corner we may even see it by 2020.

 

 

 

I love how they are all about social advertising through twitter, FB, youtube and then they turn around and lock threads where their players are interacting socially in the game to play minigames so that everyone benefits. They neglect player interaction and it's one of the main reasons anyone plays this.

[Michaael]

 

I loved how I finally thought Jagex was listening to it's players about stopping updates that are deserted the first week after release to fill in existing skills and tweak existing game game to make it useful and not deserted. But now it's almost September and we have barely seen any upgrades or updates, let alone good ones.

 

 

 

I love how if you complain about the game, they just shrug and label you as one of the problem higher levels who are burnt out on the game, so your opinions are biased. Even though there actually is very meagre higher level content. And then they promise that high level content is just around the corner we may even see it by 2020.

 

 

 

It's not like they haven't had useful updates this year. The run update has been one of the best updates of the year.

 

 

 

I agree with you though. It feels like every week something lame comes out and then they tell us "yes, high level content is under devolopment*

 

 

 

* once every 2 months for 10 minutes at a time"

 

 

 

It's definitely a let down to see things like Rag and Bone man 2, which took me 4 hours to complete for meager weekly slayer and prayer XP being classed as "high level"

 

 

 

Something tells me they'll make it up to us though :pray:

[Dragonlordjl]

Can any of you actually name five memorable updates that happened this year?

 

 

 

I struggle to name over three:

 

 

 

Agility Update

 

 

 

BH worlds

 

 

 

Pathing Update

 

 

 

 

 

Anything else? I can't think of much worth mentioning.

[Gerbil]

you are NOT allowed to question moderator decisions.

 

That sounds a whole lot like KGB Russia.

[I_am_Geed]

I dont understand the closing down of castle wars clans. Dont you get tickets for winning or losing?

 

 

 

Or am I wrong.

[GlowinRedM]

If they're going by the 'in the spirit of the game' bull [cabbage] then merch clans should be GONE.

[Troacctid]

Can any of you actually name five memorable updates that happened this year?

 

 

 

I struggle to name over three:

 

 

 

Agility Update

 

 

 

BH worlds

 

 

 

Pathing Update

 

 

 

 

 

Anything else? I can't think of much worth mentioning.

 

Random update. #-o

 

 

 

And the MA minigame was fairly lame, but the area itself (with the bank, spirit tree, and teleports) has been a godsend.

 

 

 

And the ability of leprechauns to note your stuff.

 

 

 

Was the Seers' Diary this year or last year? I've used the Enhanced Excalibur quite a bit.

[Laura]

I dont understand the closing down of castle wars clans. Dont you get tickets for winning or losing?

 

 

 

Or am I wrong.

You get two tickets for winning and one ticket if the game is tied. Losing nets you nothing.

[I_am_Geed]

I dont understand the closing down of castle wars clans. Dont you get tickets for winning or losing?

 

 

 

Or am I wrong.

You get two tickets for winning and one ticket if the game is tied. Losing nets you nothing.

 

 

 

Ah, ok. Thanks!

[Emmentail]

Ugh. I'm getting sick of Jagex and their "its all YOUR fault" attitude. If the minigames weren't so crap or had more balanced rewards people wouldn't have to fix games.

 

 

 

Since when has anyone complained about 50-50 GOP for example? But according to Jagex it's against the spirit of the game in their opinion. So we have to take theirs against the millions of people who play this game. Merchanting clans are also "against the spirit of the game", but Jagex do NOTHING against them. Two-faced losers.

[The Dark Lord]

I dont understand the closing down of castle wars clans. Dont you get tickets for winning or losing?

 

 

 

Or am I wrong.

 

 

 

Win: 2 tickets

 

Tie: 1 ticket

 

Lose: 0 tickets

 

 

 

Of course, all worlds but themed Castle Wars worlds are empty. No one plays fairly in regular Castle Wars games. It's always one team that's stacked against the other, and people flock to the winning team after the game.

 

 

 

I know that Glowin Red M founded the CW clan to try to help the old minigame gain some of its old popularity back. Other such clans actually help keep the minigame alive, in my opinion.

[Tim]

In a way, I can sort of understand. Alot of Castle Wars clans rig' the game so they will win. rather then have tied and losing games, they insist on winning just for the gold armor, as opposed to the older players like Danq and myself who busted our arses over many years to obtain them, and I know there are players here who do this (mostly richer players since they got the most powerful gear they can get their money on).

 

 

 

Though, GOP was a mistake. 50/50 made it still enjoyable but benefitial (sp?) for both sides so that was more of a "stab in the back" moment.

[Nicolescat]

I don't see anywhere where it says that they're banned.

 

 

 

It says you can't advertise them on the forums as they're against the spirit of the game. This sort of thing has happened before (like with threads about finding partners for the "PVP trick".) Honestly I think you're misinterpreting what was said.

 

 

 

Besides, minigames clans aren't a problem. It's minigames clans who go out of the way to fix a game (Soul Wars example: making teams that tie for the points and totally removing the competitive element) that aren't allowed to be advertised on the forums.

[Danqazmlp]

I'd just like to point out some major things in this argument.

 

 

 

There is a massive difference between Cw clan's, which i have personally been heavily involved in (i was in what most consider the first ever official cw clan) and groups of players who rig cw games to get tickets.

 

 

 

Cw clans will NEVER play for tickets when playing as a clan. When in a war, or an event, they will play to win, but tickets are a pure afterthought. Even when playing outside of the clans in everyday games, most cw clan members will play just to win, and not for the tickets.

 

 

 

Cw clan thread have been locked for years on the RSOF when outside the clan-only forums.The early cw clans sprung up in the 'Events' forum, and after a year or two either got closed or moved to the clan areas. So any so called clan thread being locked, is nothing new whatsoever.

 

 

 

I, and i can take an educated guess that the majority of cw plyers will laugh at any player willing to rig games for tickets. If you want to rig games for Adamant armour be my guest, because you are wasting your time. Cw players don't play for decorative armour, we're not stupid people, we know it takes hundreds of hours to get the decorative armour, but we have fun while getting it. I would guess that the majority of current cw clan members would be fine if there were no rewards at all from cw.

 

 

 

I would compare this to the fletching skillcape for those who hate fletching but still get it, but made 100x bigger. You know the type, those who get the cape just to show off, but hate the skill. they are looked down upon, instead of held highly, because the majority know they have wasted their time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But back on the topic which seems to mainly be, if these threads ar eclosed why aren't others, it depends on the mini-game and the thread. non-combat sc don't rig the games, any of the teams can win. But i do agree that threads which promote rigging the games should be locked.

[warren211]

I'm on jagex's side of this, I think it is totally wrong to purposely fix minigames just to exploit rewards.

 

 

 

Ugh. I'm getting sick of Jagex and their "its all YOUR fault" attitude. If the minigames weren't so crap or had more balanced rewards people wouldn't have to fix games.

 

 

 

Since when has anyone complained about 50-50 GOP for example? But according to Jagex it's against the spirit of the game in their opinion. So we have to take theirs against the millions of people who play this game. Merchanting clans are also "against the spirit of the game", but Jagex do NOTHING against them. Two-faced losers.

 

 

 

Common sense would say if they minigames are crap, the obvious way to act is not to play it, rather than to try to fix the crap game to exploit its non-crap rewards. Minigames are for the spirit of competition and yet players choose to skip the competition and instead choose to create ways to screw competing and give everyone rewards instead.

 

 

 

And about the GOP thing, who said no one was against 50-50 GOP? I've been against it and just because I haven't made a thread on RSOF to scream my views only to get flamed by game-fixing supporters, it doesn't mean nobody else is against it. Since when is there an ethical reason to fix ANY game in the history of sports and games? Just because players support something, it doesn't make it right. I hate standing along and watching players exploit these games to reap their own benefit.

 

 

 

And on merch clans, just because nothing has been done so far it doesn't mean nothing ever will be done. I'm hoping that Jagex will eventually crack down on them, but other than banning forum threads (which would do nothing, they'd just keep making threads or move cc's if the first cc is closed), they can't do any ingame action right away without first considering what effect it would have on the economy.

[BioIce]

Someone mentioned earlier that advertising events that promote game/result fixing is against forum rules. This is correct, as most GOP 50/50 game threads are being locked for the past few months. Perhaps it is Jagex's fault that they didn't put this rule in black and white on the forums, but I still think that you have no right to say that Jagex have no right to do so, or that you don't think you're not doing anything wrong.

 

 

 

^ Rules change, yes Jagex may come up with a stupid excuse that something is "not in the spirit of the game" however if PLAYERS are okay with it, and I knew of no one complaining about fixed GOP than why is Jagex stepping in and banning a type of gameplay. It's nonsense. Also why suddenly target GOP when it was soul wars and trawlers that people were complaining about? Those mini-games allowed freeloaders, GOP DOES NOT.

 

I side with Ravian. Oh, and by the way, there aren't many visible complaints against 5050 because those who are against it are busy doing something about it, such as organized crashes that follow 5050 clans into other worlds running them down. And fixed GOP does allow for freeloaders. I've seen more players than I can count just push one orb in and then afk the rest of the round.

 

 

 

At the rate 5050 GOP games are growing, tied games might end up winning nothing but 60 tokens for each side, a drastic measure neither those who are for or against fixed GOP want to see. And I can see this happening. After all, Jagex implemented trade limits. :|

 

 

 

There are lots of problems with GOP people have been giving suggestions for improvements and jagex hasn't been fixing that game FORCING players to play fair fixed GOP games.

 

 

This is certainly true. But then again Jagex has a lot on their plate, they take a while to fix things. GOP is low on their priority list. I still remember when whoever won air won the mind altar automatically.

[canadiansmurf]

I'm on jagex's side of this, I think it is totally wrong to purposely fix minigames just to exploit rewards.

 

 

 

^ I disagree. They have been letting this slide for years. When Pest control came out high level players all created exclusive clans where they were exploiting PC for lots of exp. nothing was done about this til almost two years later. None of the minigames now give the insane exp PC used to.

 

 

 

Lots of others have pointed out the way current games are set up like castle war, one side is always rigged to win. People clamour in CW to get on the side that has the most high levels.

 

 

 

Plus there are NO NON-Rigged games, there is NO "competition" when those who are more skilled or knowledgeable about a minigame group together with their friends and keep winning on theme worlds. This makes the minigame not fun for those who always because of bad luck end up on a bad team. This is bad mini-game design on Jagex's part.

 

 

 

Stealing creation is set-up well because whether you win or lose the effort you put into the game determines the points you get. Winning doesn't matter.

 

 

 

I wish more mini-games were like this.

 

 

 

 

 

Common sense would say if they minigames are crap, the obvious way to act is not to play it, rather than to try to fix the crap game to exploit its non-crap rewards.

 

 

 

^ This is nonsense. We pay to play RS, who are you to tell us not to play a certain part of it. The minigame has faults, players find ways to overcome it's fault and then Jagex decides its "not in the spirit of the game." That term is overused so much by jagex that now it's meaningless, it seems lately anything could be considered not in the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

Minigames are for the spirit of competition and yet players choose to skip the competition and instead choose to create ways to screw competing and give everyone rewards instead.

 

 

 

^ NOT TRUE, not everything has to be about competition. Plus most mini-games are not about competition. Cooperating is the true spirit of the game, and players shouldn't be punished for working together to acheive goals.

 

 

 

I hate standing along and watching players exploit these games to reap their own benefit.

 

 

 

You can play how you want, not everyone wants to "compete" or spend endless hours on something. It doesn't make it wrong.

 

 

 

And on merch clans, just because nothing has been done so far it doesn't mean nothing ever will be done. I'm hoping that Jagex will eventually crack down on them, but other than banning forum threads (which would do nothing, they'd just keep making threads or move cc's if the first cc is closed), they can't do any ingame action right away without first considering what effect it would have on the economy.

 

 

 

^ Yet you seem to think it's great that Jagex is taking in-game action to curb the actions of players rigging fair cooperative mini-games even though it is hurting NO ONE. While merch clans actually do directly negatively impact players.

 

 

 

Jagex should stop trying to micromanage how players are playing RS especially if it doesn't do any harm. These minigame clans mean that people are actually using content that otherwise they may not have. Happy players should be more important.

[canadiansmurf]

 

 

 

I side with Ravian. Oh, and by the way, there aren't many visible complaints against 5050 because those who are against it are busy doing something about it, such as organized crashes that follow 5050 clans into other worlds running them down. And fixed GOP does allow for freeloaders. I've seen more players than I can count just push one orb in and then afk the rest of the round.

 

 

 

To the above poster if there are people crashing other's playing 50-50 GOP this is the saddest thing I've ever heard. WHO CARES what other players are doing in a mini-game. And yet the saddest thing is that you probably think it's in the spirit of the game to crash other people's 50-50 games and ruin it for them.

 

 

 

ALSO AFKING is a seperate issue from fixing cooperative games. People AFK on theme worlds. Don't automatically say that everyone playing cooperatively is AFKing most are being social players who want to play fair games for fun, where everyone takes a turn winning or tying and getting the maximum benefit from the minigame.

 

 

 

Again it's bad game design if the minigame allows people to just freeload.

[BioIce]

 

Plus there are NO NON-Rigged games, there is NO "competition" when those who are more skilled or knowledgeable about a minigame group together with their friends and keep winning on theme worlds. This makes the minigame not fun for those who always because of bad luck end up on a bad team. This is bad mini-game design on Jagex's part.

 

In the case of GOP, if you're up against an organized team, nothing is stopping losing players from forming their own team and learning the skills to become as good as the opponent.

 

 

 

Minigames are for the spirit of competition and yet players choose to skip the competition and instead choose to create ways to screw competing and give everyone rewards instead.

 

 

 

^NOT TRUE, not everything has to be about competition. Plus most mini-games are not about competition. Cooperating is the true spirit of the game, and players shouldn't be punished for working together to acheive goals.

 

 

I disagree. It is about the competition and the cooperation.

 

 

 

Clan wars, Fist of Guthix, the duel arena, the Great Orb Project, all of these have the two qualities mentioned above.

 

 

 

AFKing in a fixed game is freeloading of the worst order. It cannot be separated, because it's entangled with the issue. I know this because I have dropped in on several 5050 games to see if I can find any potential good players and far too many score once and that's it as I've mentioned. Easy tokens, easy money.

 

 

 

Speak ill of 5050 GOP crashers in any way you want. As if that'll stop it from happening. :lol:

[Albel]

Really? This has to be...the... *mumbles*

 

 

 

Jagex can not enforce this to the put of stopping it. There are so many mini game clans, they just cant.

 

 

 

What can possibley be going through their heads?

[dragon246665]

Okay, I'm not usually a critic of Jagex, I mean come on there is no way I could run a multi-million dollar company and there is no way that any one of us could, but man...this is an abomination, an utter catastrophy.

 

 

 

I mean I don't want to appear to be just another flamer, but this update sickens me. They pay people to shut down a thread that has to do with a MINI-game, yes a miniature game. A game that is not of the average size. A Miniscule, distraction from the rest of the game. Jagex would rather pay these people to sift through the RSOF shutting down mini-game threads then paying them to just take 5 minutes a day to walk around w2 GE and ban the merchant clans, and plus I'm willing to bet that at least some of the recruiters une type bots to get their message across.

 

 

 

Oh and another thing that really makes me truely angry is that there are so many problems piling up and yet Jagex is taking no bold actions. Back when RWT was a major issue Jagex was willing to make a stand no matter the cost. They were determined to fix their game and they did just that. Now however, they seem to be unwilling to truely make a change, an actual, bold stand against all the problems with the game. It seems they would rather dance around the hard to fix problems and shove bland, hyped up updates down our throats week after week.

 

 

 

All in all if things are to start improving, Jagex will need to be willing to loose members. The time has come for Jagex to deliver to the community as a whole, not a few hate filled posts.

 

 

 

Sorry if I seem like just another flamer...