The Ban on Minigame Clans?

[kingbrooks]

This is to Serepherus, as I know he is a captain in Fast sc ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Is Fast sc closed down now? If so I'm only 1/11 of the way to 99craft :evil:

[Bassy]

I believe the SC clans should hopefully be safe, as their is no real way to fix those games, and all of the major clans are only there to play the game, not necessarily win it (everybody gets a tool anyway). Really it'd just depend on whether or not JaGeX wants combat to be a dominant factor in Stealing Creation or not.

 

 

 

I'm going to miss all of the 50/50 GOP threads, mainly because I hate the way some if not most people act on the theme worlds, blaming everyone for their mistakes and then leaving early.

 

 

 

Either way this isn't cool. I find it ironic how they say they're getting more and more into the clan community and then they go and ban some of the most active clans... :|

[BioIce]

Most players that go to "Fixed" or "Cooperative" minigame clan chat groups/clans want:

 

- Fair wins

 

- Fair gameplay

 

 

 

They are:

 

- Cooperative

 

- Mature

 

- Helpful

 

 

 

Sources for these info:

 

Sc_Claymates, Smooth_Sc and Fast_ma (All of those three cc have many good players in them willing to help and work with you)

 

While your statements may be true for the minigames those clans are based on, I'm afraid this isn't the case with the Great Orb Project. So-called "fair" wins and "fair" gameplay as you appear to define it - otherwise known as 5050 or 100/0, the nomenclature for GOP fixed games - leeches the competition out of the minigame and makes it utterly boring. It makes it no different than grinding a skill. And cooperative? Mature? Helpful? :wall: Not necessarily. A lot of 5050 people don't tend to stick together, they just play a couple of games then leave, sort of like an eat-and-run on a restaurant.

 

 

 

Let's look at other side of it. Players that don't do Fixed games. They want:

 

- Some are immature brats

 

- Some just don't know about better option

 

- Some just love the fun of him/her vs everyone else and no working together (That's fair)

 

- Some just are idiots with no brain. So if they break a rule or go crash a fixed games, then you know why.

 

Good of you to use the word "some." From my perspective, I can't call fixed games as a better option. I would fall somewhere near the third point, with the exception that I do work together with my friends.

 

 

 

What does Fixed games do?

 

It makes game more enjoyable. Because it's easier to deal with. Take GOP for instance, in a themed world you gotta focus alot to win. And that's not enough, if your team mates aren't either you will loose. The game is also very lame...

 

 

 

So fixed games is a nice option for those of us who want to work together instead of going "Me vs everyone else". Because if you play GOP you must notify everyone in your team about "Let's win guys/girls!", what are chances players listen always?

 

 

 

The chances are slim...

 

I'll say this, since GOP was used as an example: the minigame isn't at all more enjoyable being fixed. It's like acquiring an invincibility cheat code. Fun for a short time, but it wears off into boredom. I will agree with you that the minigame has its problems. Attempting to lead anyone in a GOP team put together for the first time is very much like herding cats. You'll get spat at, scratched at, and generally abused. :lol: It gets worse especially if you don't know how to play very well and still try to lead.

 

 

 

A number of the teams I've faced are just thrown in with no idea how to play or work together since it's often their first time meeting each other on the same team! Something must be done about that. Perhaps a fixed game of GOP will allow a ragtag gang of recruited people to learn to work together and form the beginnings of a well-oiled team, but that isn't what a bunch of them play it for, many play for the easy tokens which means easy money. :cry:

 

 

 

This is why a lot of 5050 fixed game threads in the rsof forums concerning GOP get locked. It definitely isn't in the competitive spirit of the minigame. I will say that 5050s are in the cooperative spirit of the minigame, just not the way cooperation was intended.

[Krazi]

...trying to fix games not were not meant to be fixed.

Does anybody else see the irony in this statement? :wall:

 

 

 

Edit: Somebody already did =D>

 

You are purposefully trying to fix games not were not meant to be fixed.

 

 

 

DID JAGEX JUST SAY THAT?

 

:wall:

 

 

 

EDIT2: Shouldn't Jagex be spending less time on minigame clans and more time on merchant clans? World 2 G.E is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for my opinion, I really could care less about them banning minigame clans as I don't play minigames at all anymore. The rewards just aren't worth it.

[3hitm4g3u]

Jagex let Fast MA go on because even Jagex looked at the game they created and said this is one boring game.

[Omali]

Good.

 

 

 

How about we play the game, rather than figure out how to exploit it to grind sum gud st0ff? Jagex can't do jack [bleep] without, like any other game, players looking for every manner with which to exploit it.

[kingbrooks]

Good.

 

 

 

How about we play the game, rather than figure out how to exploit it to grind sum gud st0ff? Jagex can't do jack [bleep] without, like any other game, players looking for every manner with which to exploit it.

 

 

 

 

 

I consider these sort of minigame clans in the same light as you might consider power training a skill, I very much doubt when Jagex made runescape they expected people to be making 10k potions in one sitting. I'm sure they made runescape for the roleplay. For a minigame, Jagex hasn't done very well: too many of them simply aren't fun! Surely they should be allowed to be powertrained in the same way that you would train herblore, crafting, firemaking, woodcutting..every skill in runescape can be powertrained! And is!

[Lielac]

*sigh*

 

 

 

Right.

 

 

 

Was it a Jmod? Please say it wasn't a Jmod and you got yelled at by a pompous forum mod, I rather like my faith in Jagex and I really want to keep it at least until my birthday. (4 months! C'mon, Jagex, you can stay sane at least THAT long, right? Right?)

[Laura]

Castle Wars has and always will be stacked. It's just in the nature of the game. I don't like to play against my friend and it just happens to be that my friends are extremely good at the same minigame.

[GlowinRedM]

It was a series of forum mods who said it was a new rule. More than one.

 

 

 

These fixed clans are also a good way to make friends and just have fun in the game not worrying about anything. Sort of like a safe pvp for CW or SC or SW or anything else.

[Carl]

Looking through the mini-game section of the forums, I can see that "Fast Sc" games seems to be okay. The only locked "tie" game threads seem to be Gop. I think (As the titles are changed and the posts hidden).

 

 

 

And the quote on the first page was by a forum moderator, not a Jagex mod. Seems to only be that one mod that's locking threads.

[aspeeder]

Just fyi, 50/50 GOP games have been illegal for a while now, at least a couple of months. It could be that JaGeX is taking a more proactive role in enforcing this rule on the forums. Doesn't mean that I like it though, I think that JaGeX just has a problem with us doing an activity and knowing the end result and can calculate down to the minute how long it will take to achieve x exp or items (Especially when it comes to minigames). To them it is supposed to be something fun you do on a whim and that you don't care if you win/get the tokens or not, but unfortunatly if they have desirable rewards there will always be those who manipulate the system to get what they want (Myself included). If they make a stackable game that happens to be a good way of training/money making, why shouldn't I play it in the way that I want?

[Dexek]

I'd support Jagex if more of their mini-games were actually fun. I'll stick with my combat Stealing Creation games. They might not be fixed, but I don't remember losing a game in the past 6 months. :lol:

 

 

 

I wish Jagex would harp to manipulation clans rather than mini-game clans. They have a much more negative impact on those who don't take part in such activities. :thumbdown:

[Dragonlordjl]

There is a not a facepalm picture great enough to express my disgust for this. First of all, Jagex can't do [cabbage] to stop it. Playing most minigames the way they were MEANT to be played is not only irritating, but it is massively inefficient, especially in the case of MA and SC. If Jagex closes their threads on the RSOF, they will just create actual websites and use IRC to advertise instead. If the minigames gave proper rewards for the time investment, people wouldn't fix them. If you got like 12 points in MA for winning, people might play it legitimately. If you got around 60 points in SC for winning, people would do it fairly. The amount of points you get for winning MUST be more than the amount people can get by playing a few short games that equal the same timespan it would take to win

 

 

 

And yes, I agree that Jagex needs to get their heads out of their [wagon] and focus on the people "fixing the economy" rather than the people "fixing minigames." Fixing minigames only affects the people in those minigames. Fixing the economy has a ripple effect that touches almost every single player.

[The Dark Lord]

This is to Serepherus, as I know he is a captain in Fast sc ;)

 

 

 

 

 

Is Fast sc closed down now? If so I'm only 1/11 of the way to 99craft :evil:

 

 

 

Fast Sc is going to remain open. I talked with one of the owners about this issue yesterday and she said that there was nothing to worry about. We're too well-known anyway. If we were kicked off the RSOF, I think people would still show up.

 

 

 

Sc Claymates would also still be fine as well.

[Dragonlordjl]

Although slightly off-topic, I'd like to know why Jagex is wasting their time on this crap instead of fixing real issues, like WHY THE HELL YOU CAN STILL CLICK ON ANOTHER PLAYER'S FAMILIAR/PET.

[Wkw]

There is a not a facepalm picture great enough to express my disgust for this.

 

ORLY?

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

 

 

Everything they have done was stupid. They want to fix the game, right? Well, FIX THE GAME, not the MINIgames. Next they'll be telling us how to play the main game- oh wait, they are already trying to do that

[chaosgone]

I'm not worried about this. The FAQ for the Minigames forum states:

 

 

 

FAQ

 

 

 

Can I arrange for some people to get together and agree to play a mini-game in such a way that we can determine, in advance, the outcome?

 

 

 

This isn't within the 'spirit of the game', as our games are intended to be played fairly, with rewards going to those who have earned them. We think it's much better to try and win a game - so please don't try to arrange the outcome of a game on our forums!

 

 

 

Clans like SC Claymates don't "fix" who wins the game; they allow either side to win. And clans like Eviltreechat and W60 Penguins do not have a winning side to them.

[RSBDavid]

its perfectly ok for a clan to ruin the prices of items but not to speed up slow minigames?

[The Dark Lord]

I suppose we're okay still. Now that I look at it more, it doesn't look like they are including SC clans. The forum mod was just being such a pompous douche that that's what it seemed that he was implying. The thread that Glowin Red M has posted the QFC to is now hidden. All of those forum mods and the ranked generals in MMG's chat are all a bunch of tools. :-#

 

 

 

However, the idea of them crusading against the clans that DO decide the outcomes is just plain stupid. They have better things to be working on, but from their track record, I doubt that they'd care less. Merchant clans need to have some action taken against them. You can still go find them on the forums or spamming world 2.

 

 

 

The best thing to do now is to just sit back and watch Jagex destroy their own game. Oh well, at least it'll help take the people that are addicted to it away from the computer screen for a bit.

[Zepheras]

Someone mentioned earlier that advertising events that promote game/result fixing is against forum rules. This is correct, as most GOP 50/50 game threads are being locked for the past few months. Perhaps it is Jagex's fault that they didn't put this rule in black and white on the forums, but I still think that you have no right to say that Jagex have no right to do so, or that you don't think you're not doing anything wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

I've already mentioned on the RSOF when one of the leader of a big group of 50/50 GOP game made a thread about this issue. In summary,

 

 

 

1. You adhere to whatever rules Jagex implement, no questions asked.

 

 

 

2. You don't provide reasons such as players who fix games are "more mature and cooperative." (All in the wrong manner)

 

 

 

3. It's not in the spirit of the minigame, and you're pretty much angry that you can't grind the tokens/tickets for the rewards.

 

 

 

4. Most importantly, you can suggest improvement to the minigame, instead of finding fault with the current one, and use that as an excuse to bypass the game system.

 

 

 

 

 

Non-combat SC games aren't fixing results, since the outcome is still entirely dependant on factors such as putting barriers around important resources fast, speed of gathering, and overall non-combat skills of the players. Basically if you advertise modified versions of the minigame (such as no magic castlewars), your thread won't be locked on RSOF.

 

 

 

 

 

To those who think Jagex isn't doing a good job at upholding the rules, I can assure you that it's not that they aren't, it's just that they are lenient. Most wrongdoings on the RSOF usually only get a warning or thread lock by moderators. If they want to, they can dish out blackmarks and bans for every small issue, and trust me you won't like it. I'm pretty sure that most of you heard of the virtual pet website Neopets. It's ten times easier to get a ban from that, then on RuneScape. Easily a 24 hour ban for talking negatively about the staff and moderators. If Jagex employs such tough measures, people would actually be scared of being caught with any wrongdoings or getting permanently banned.

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, saying that Jagex should be fixing real issues instead of this is total [cabbage]. That's more of an excuse to continue your game-fixing ways on your part than a proper argument that Jagex isn't doing their job well.

[Dragonlordjl]

 

 

 

By the way, saying that Jagex should be fixing real issues instead of this is total [cabbage]. That's more of an excuse to continue your game-fixing ways on your part than a proper argument that Jagex isn't doing their job well.

 

 

 

Again, let me explain to you:

 

 

 

People "fix" minigames because Jagex designed them poorly. People "fix" minigames because it's extremely INEFFICIENT to play them as they were meant to be played. If minigames didn't SUCK so badly, people wouldn't "fix" them. Ask any group of 100 people what they think of MA and I guarantee you that over 3/4 of them will tell you that it is horrible and they cannot wait to get 300 rank so they can never go back to it.

 

 

 

And Jagex IS NOT doing their jobs well. Merchant clans affect almost every single person who play this game, and these minigame clans only affect a small portion of the RS populace. Instead of trying to police people who are involved in emergent gameplay, Jagex should be focusing all their efforts on the "high level updates" they promised. They should be fixing crap like BEING ABLE TO CLICK ON PEOPLE'S FAMILIARS/PETS, they should be fixing glitches like the pathing glitch at the GE that causes you to run off in an odd direction, they should be fixing the bank glitch that causes you to withdraw the wrong items if you double-click, there is SO MUCH THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE and yet Jagex is focusing on inane [cabbage] like this.

[Zepheras]

People "fix" minigames because Jagex designed them poorly. People "fix" minigames because it's extremely INEFFICIENT to play them as they were meant to be played. If minigames didn't SUCK so badly, people wouldn't "fix" them. Ask any group of 100 people what they think of MA and I guarantee you that over 3/4 of them will tell you that it is horrible and they cannot wait to get 300 rank so they can never go back to it.

 

 

 

Inefficient in what sense? You're playing a minigame, not training a skill. There's no effiiciency involved. Unless you're (of course) talking about rewards like gold CW armour, inbued berserker rings, then you're mostly reward oriented. You want the fastest way to get them. If possible you want the ring without all the playing (or grinding, time wasting by your definition).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Jagex IS NOT doing their jobs well. Merchant clans affect almost every single person who play this game, and these minigame clans only affect a small portion of the RS populace. Instead of trying to police people who are involved in emergent gameplay, Jagex should be focusing all their efforts on the "high level updates" they promised. They should be fixing crap like BEING ABLE TO CLICK ON PEOPLE'S FAMILIARS/PETS, they should be fixing glitches like the pathing glitch at the GE that causes you to run off in an odd direction, they should be fixing the bank glitch that causes you to withdraw the wrong items if you double-click, there is SO MUCH THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE and yet Jagex is focusing on inane [cabbage] like this.

 

 

 

You just assume that issues need to be solved in a linear order from highest to lowest priority. But there's not the case. Fixing the GE and merchanting issues involves re-programming the system. What does it take to enforce rules that prevent game-fixing? Instructions to forum J and PMods. And if some people insist, we can all go and inform Jagex that they're not strict enough, we need 24 hour bans for every small mistakes. Does that mean that they aren't and can't work on both issues simultaneously with different groups of staff?

[canadiansmurf]

Someone mentioned earlier that advertising events that promote game/result fixing is against forum rules. This is correct, as most GOP 50/50 game threads are being locked for the past few months. Perhaps it is Jagex's fault that they didn't put this rule in black and white on the forums, but I still think that you have no right to say that Jagex have no right to do so, or that you don't think you're not doing anything wrong.

 

 

 

^ Jagex has been wrong in the past, and they change their stance on things all the time, if players present a strong case, they may well allow fixed games again. Also before when only FOG was being singled out it didn't impact many players, now that all mini-games seem within their rader it impacts MORE PLAYERS. SO yes we pay to play RS and if part of playing RS means we want to play COOPERATIVELY than we should be allowed to. IF anything playing cooperative games seems to be MORE in the spirit of the game. Their stance is hypocritical and makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

 

I've already mentioned on the RSOF when one of the leader of a big group of 50/50 GOP game made a thread about this issue. In summary,

 

 

 

1. You adhere to whatever rules Jagex implement, no questions asked.

 

 

 

^ Rules change, yes Jagex may come up with a stupid excuse that something is "not in the spirit of the game" however if PLAYERS are okay with it, and I knew of no one complaining about fixed GOP than why is Jagex stepping in and banning a type of gameplay. It's nonsense. Also why suddenly target GOP when it was soul wars and trawlers that people were complaining about? Those mini-games allowed freeloaders, GOP DOES NOT.

 

 

 

When pest control came out it was one of the first popular clan based minigames. As people realized playing in a clan allowed extremely fast PC points. This wasn't changed for years. Jagex never "banned" PC clan's as they knew that would be stupid, they tweaked the game so players are forced to play longer and the 45 second games are no longer possible.

 

 

 

This is the year of upgrades and Jagex is trying to enforce a stupid rule about no fixed GOP instead of fixing the game directly so that there aren't rigged sides and everyone can get fair amounts of points per game.

 

 

 

Also they are forcing people to go outside of the official RS forums to communicate with minigame clans, this I find unacceptable as well.

 

 

 

 

 

2. You don't provide reasons such as players who fix games are "more mature and cooperative." (All in the wrong manner)

 

 

 

^ ??? What are you talking about "wrong manner". People cooperating is wrong? This is [cabbage].

 

 

 

3. It's not in the spirit of the minigame, and you're pretty much angry that you can't grind the tokens/tickets for the rewards.

 

 

 

^ People aren't playing the minigame as designed BECAUSE sides are often rigged, and there is no point spending 20 minutes on something where you are not being rewarded. This is a flaw with the minigame design NOT with players. Also if the game allows other ways to be played players will find it and they will do it. The only way for jagex to enforce the way it should be played is to change the minigame which makes more sense than locking threads.

 

 

 

4. Most importantly, you can suggest improvement to the minigame, instead of finding fault with the current one, and use that as an excuse to bypass the game system.

 

 

 

^ You are such a wanna-be Jagex mod. And you believe everything they tell you? You must not have been playing RS for long.

 

 

 

 

 

Non-combat SC games aren't fixing results since the outcome is still entirely dependant on factors such as putting barriers around important resources fast, speed of gathering, and overall non-combat skills of the players. Basically if you advertise modified versions of the minigame (such as no magic castlewars), your thread won't be locked on RSOF.

 

 

 

 

 

^ This is a total joke. Of course non-combat SC fixes results. Most NON-COMBAT SC games end in 15 minutes or less because the minigame is over when all resources have been gathered. In COMBAT SC the minigame is never over so fast because all resources are NEVER gathered, you are always being attacked or attacking others so games last the normal 20 mins.

 

 

 

This gives an UNFAIR advantage to those who are playing the game not as intended.

 

 

 

You are a hypocrite and because you play SC you just want it to be allowed.

 

 

 

 

 

To those who think Jagex isn't doing a good job at upholding the rules, I can assure you that it's not that they aren't, it's just that they are lenient. Most wrongdoings on the RSOF usually only get a warning or thread lock by moderators. If they want to, they can dish out blackmarks and bans for every small issue, and trust me you won't like it. I'm pretty sure that most of you heard of the virtual pet website Neopets. It's ten times easier to get a ban from that, then on RuneScape. Easily a 24 hour ban for talking negatively about the staff and moderators. If Jagex employs such tough measures, people would actually be scared of being caught with any wrongdoings or getting permanently banned.

 

 

 

^ Of course you want censorship, how dare we criticize the totalitarian Jagex. THey are always right, players are a bunch of whiners who want everything easily. Let's just see Jagex tweak how you play the game and you will be the first to whine.

 

 

 

By the way, saying that Jagex should be fixing real issues instead of this is total [cabbage]. That's more of an excuse to continue your game-fixing ways on your part than a proper argument that Jagex isn't doing their job well.

 

 

 

^ Err, of course they aren't doing their job well. How is banning certain minigame clans from RSOF going to stop this? It isn't clans will move to different forums to communicate. There are lots of problems with GOP people have been giving suggestions for improvements and jagex hasn't been fixing that game FORCING players to play fair fixed GOP games.

 

 

 

 

 

ALSO this is the year of upgrades that should be improving existing content, instead Jagex has been lazy and just leeching off their loyal players. Why advertise that Runescape gets regular content updates when that hasn't applied at all to this year. We asked for fixes to existing minigames to make them useful. We haven't seen any of the older minigames tweaked yet, instead we get new things like MA which aren't really needed. None of the skills (except agility and that is debateable) have gotten updates.

 

 

 

So yes Jagex is NOT doing their jobs.

[canadiansmurf]

What does it take to enforce rules that prevent game-fixing? Instructions to forum J and PMods.

 

 

 

Ravian what are you smoking. Banning fixed game threads from RSOF DOES NOT mean these clans won't just use other channels to communicate.

 

 

 

This DOESN'T solve the problem that Jagex CONTINUALLY jumps the gun in banning something before fixing it.

 

 

 

Also this issue is HIGH PRIORITY? Give me a break. It seems more like an April Fool's joke.

 

 

 

It's almost as bad as when Jagex said players were abusing the Freemenick acheivement diaries when they used the reward before it was changed.

 

 

 

Jagex has a history of blaming players for playing the game. When it's their game development that is lacking.;