RS Economics #1

[RSonomics]

Jagex has tried something very unheard of in MMORPG's. They have attempted to make wealth transfer impossible to the game, by placing set prices on all tradeable items, and restricting trades to be of equal value.

 

Fast forward one year. The RS economy has changed drastically in direct result to the issue. Nearly a year has passed since BH was removed, and wealth transfer has indeed virtually disappeared. The game has changed, now many of the most popular items cannot be bought for purely GP. Mint Cakes are the item that stands out the most. The population of RS has gradually begun to accept these items as the new base currency for all highly demanded items.

 

The most similar situation I could compare this to would be SOJ's (Stone Of Jordan) in Diablo2. For years, Diablo2 gold was virtually worthless, as the community rapidly adopted the SOJ as the main form of currency. This was not for the same reason, however. Gold on Diablo2 was valueless, as it was capped at certain levels, and was far too easy to obtain in high quantities. This led the community to adopt an item as its main form of currency. These items tend to be very difficult to accumulate, although their utility in-game is not the determinant of price.

 

The Runescape population has adopted mint cakes as the main form of currency due to several reasons.

 

1) They are cheap (Mint Cakes = 29.6k market price)

2) They are hard to obtain

3) They are uniform (There is only one version of a mint cake)

 

There are numerous items on Runescape that could fill these characteristics. Mint Cakes are just the ones that caught on. One year from now, we could see a change in this item, if Mint Cake prices rise too high on the Grand Exchange. In the end, this is obsolete, the real interesting point here is that this shows people's reaction towards the restriction of trade. They will simply adopt a new form of currency, which has no restrictions.

[Saru Inc]

What's your point ?

[RSonomics]

What's your point ?

 

My point is that if you remove wealth transfer on GP, people will migrate towards a new currency (like Mint Cakes).

[Star_Fox]

What's your point ?

 

My point is that if you remove wealth transfer on GP, people will migrate towards a new currency (like Mint Cakes).

 

we have a nice discussion on that right here.

[Den]

I havent adapted to mint cakes as currency and as long as the ge doesnt take mint cakes as money, I dont plan to. ;)

[Shelby_Polo]

I havent adapted to mint cakes as currency and as long as the ge doesnt take mint cakes as money, I dont plan to. ;)

Same; my character has never even had a mint cake before.

[Wkw]

When the bubble crashes, mints will be worthless and they will use something else. About a year ago they used third age as a form of money. That crashes, and before 3rda, they used masks.

[KISS]

When the bubble crashes, mints will be worthless and they will use something else. About a year ago they used third age as a form of money. That crashes, and before 3rda, they used masks.

 

The bubble will burst one day, just like how oppulent tables have done before.

[qeltar]

The Runescape population has adopted mint cakes as the main form of currency due to several reasons.

 

1) They are cheap (Mint Cakes = 29.6k market price)

2) They are hard to obtain

3) They are uniform (There is only one version of a mint cake)

4) They are fools (the players who worship mint cakes, that is, not the cakes themselves)

 

This is nothing more than a bubble, a mass delusion like paying the equivalent of a month's salary for a tulip bulb. It WILL end, eventually, and it won't end well.

 

And the reason for the mint cake mania is not because Jagex is trying to prevent wealth transfer between accounts, but because Jagex's system for doing so is grossly flawed.

[Llavada]

This is nothing more than a bubble, a mass delusion like paying the equivalent of a month's salary for a tulip bulb. It WILL end, eventually, and it won't end well.

I doubt that players have "adopted" mint cakes as a form of emergent gameplay, rather that a group of uber-rich "merchants" have been buying them up for a long time and recently set about their scam...

 

They offered to sell phats or some similar item as cash-with-mints, a few people got some mints and got their phats, word got out and suddenly mints were very valuable... the original "merchants" then used their huge pile of mints to buy back their phats plus loads and loads more... and laughed all the way to the bank

 

From the posts i've seen about mint cakes, players are getting them and then immediately using them for deals - in other words, they are regarded as "hot potatoes" that no-one wants to keep... so listen to qeltar's words of wisdom

[RSonomics]

I doubt that players have "adopted" mint cakes as a form of emergent gameplay, rather that a group of uber-rich "merchants" have been buying them up for a long time and recently set about their scam...

 

For some reason, whenever the market deviates from the norm, people always blame merchants and call them "scammers". The thing is, Mint Cakes are not some item being merchanted by a clan. They are an item that has been adopted as currency. If you look at their price history on GE, they have NEVER dropped in price in the past 180 days. Artificial demand can be created by merchants, but not for 180 straight days. At that point you must realize that the item is undervalued. Its price pattern is very similar to items like Easter Eggs, Pumpkins and Disks right now.

 

This is nothing more than a bubble, a mass delusion like paying the equivalent of a month's salary for a tulip bulb. It WILL end, eventually, and it won't end well.

 

You seem to be going through the thought process that, seeing as Mint Cakes have no utility in the game, they cannot hold value. This is untrue, as I mentioned in other MMORPG's, players will and do adopt items as currency, which tends to be much more dependent on their scarcity than utility. For example, something like a Lobster could never be a true form of Currency on Runescape, because they are easily obtainable by any player. If demand raised on lobsters, supply would simply adjust. The same cannot be said for our item in question, Mint Cakes. They are still far too difficult to accumulate, and therefore supply cannot keep up with demand.

 

If you look at the real world, you will see that paper currency is very similar to a Mint Cake (or any item-based currency). Its price is completely unrelated to its utility; the paper that a $20.00 note is printed on is worth maybe a few cents, whereas the bill itself has a value of $20. Currency is based completely on trust; trust that others will value it equally. People know that when they buy a Mint Cake, they are buying an item worth a certain amount to other Runescape players.

 

Now, this does certainly mean that if players were to suddenly lose faith in Mint Cakes as currency, their value would plummet. However, for such a change to come about, there would need to be a change in the environment. As of right now, Mint Cakes are very stable. If Jagex were to implement an update making the accumulation of them much easier, then of course this would dramatically affect demand and prices. Should their price rise above 1 Mil cash, then this too would likely cause many problems. However, this is simply playing the "what if" game. Right now, it is impossible to deny that players view Mint Cakes as currency. Simply check any trading forum on Runescape.com.

 

What is interesting is that right now, there are only a select handful of items which are traded with Mint Cakes. They are the items which are very rare; most items in Runescape can simply be bought and sold on the Grand Exchange. However, could we see a greater shift towards Mint Cakes as currency in the future? Perhaps one day even semi-rare items, like AGS / Whip will only be traded for Mint Cakes as well. Are we just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now?

[Jehosaphat]

Mints are not being used as currency, GP is. The only reason mints are popular is because people think they have a higher value than their GE value, and use them to trade items that also seem to have a higher cost than that on the GE. So unless other frequently used items (runes, logs, etc.) have an artificial price rise that isn't shown in changes in the GE, mints have no chance of becoming anything close to currency. They'll crash eventually.

[qeltar]

The problem with mint cakes is not just that they are useless. It is that their rarity is artificial, and that they exist only because of flaws in an existing system.

 

You want to compare them to paper currency? Good idea. Now look at what has happened to the value of every paper currency throughout history. Here's a hint: a century ago one US dollar was redeemable for 1/20 of an ounce of gold.

 

The only reason this thing is rare is that Jagex obviously intended it to be a fun reward from a minigame. At any time, they could decide to make the reward more common, or make it possible to produce it using the Cooking skill, or even make it untradeable. As much as I don't like untradeable items, having rare rewards from minigames be untradeable makes a lot more sense than many of the current untradeable items.

 

Now add to this a couple of other factors. One, over time their GE value will increase, and it will increase exponentially until their real value reaches their street value. At that point, a bunch of people will have a a Homer Simpson moment and realize these things are truly garbage and dump them. Second, a lot more people are starting to do the minigame, in part over this "currency" nonsense.

 

PS This thread is arguably price manipulation. If you own a bunch of these, or have any other interest in them maintaining their value, you should come clean on that.

[Zachneap]

Currency is based completely on trust

 

this is the complete truth.

 

A Dollar is worth nothing if people don't want it.

 

Hence inflation.

 

The mint is a viable form of currency For NOW because it is stable at the moment

 

Theorhetically in real life gold can fall out of favor and gold backed currencies value could plummet.

 

But it won't because people think its stable. Their own trust in it generates its stability.

 

For now guessing is impossible.

[Tact]

For some reason, whenever the market deviates from the norm, people always blame merchants and call them "scammers". The thing is, Mint Cakes are not some item being merchanted by a clan. They are an item that has been adopted as currency. If you look at their price history on GE, they have NEVER dropped in price in the past 180 days. Artificial demand can be created by merchants, but not for 180 straight days. At that point you must realize that the item is undervalued. Its price pattern is very similar to items like Easter Eggs, Pumpkins and Disks right now.

This proves nothing. I know of several items are were manipulated by the so-called merch clans for a period of several months of more. Unlike the rares you mention, mint cakes are not too difficult to obtain, and are not discontinued items.

 

What is interesting is that right now, there are only a select handful of items which are traded with Mint Cakes. They are the items which are very rare; most items in Runescape can simply be bought and sold on the Grand Exchange. However, could we see a greater shift towards Mint Cakes as currency in the future? Perhaps one day even semi-rare items, like AGS / Whip will only be traded for Mint Cakes as well. Are we just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now?

Pointless speculation. I will take your thoughts much more seriously once you bother to post on an actual account, instead of one made specifically for the purpose of perpetuating the uselessness of mint cakes.

[yuriqiu]

You never know, he might be onto something here. There are small island nations that trade commodities within an economy using oddly shaped stones that are rarely found as it has been accepted as a medium of exchange. Technically, if one is to say mint cake is useless in game, a similar argument can be made to say that gold and silver is useless in real life. Mint cake for the moment does seem to be accepted as some form of medium of exchange in the rares market. How long it will last can only depend on rate of obtaining and people's confidence.

 

Also my friend who did the gnome minigame for about a month estimated his average mint cake to come once every 2-3 hours. (Although he also recieved numerous GTP, goggles, and scarfs)

[Tact]

You never know, he might be onto something here. There are small island nations that trade commodities within an economy using oddly shaped stones that are rarely found as it has been accepted as a medium of exchange. Technically, if one is to say mint cake is useless in game, a similar argument can be made to say that gold and silver is useless in real life. Mint cake for the moment does seem to be accepted as some form of medium of exchange in the rares market. How long it will last can only depend on rate of obtaining and people's confidence.

Nothing that hasn't already been posted on another thread tbh. The fact he took the bother to post a separate thread with an account made specifically for this purpose, when until very recently there was a similar discussion thread on the first page of this subforum, is extremely suspect.

[Merre]

You never know, he might be onto something here. There are small island nations that trade commodities within an economy using oddly shaped stones that are rarely found as it has been accepted as a medium of exchange. Technically, if one is to say mint cake is useless in game, a similar argument can be made to say that gold and silver is useless in real life. Mint cake for the moment does seem to be accepted as some form of medium of exchange in the rares market. How long it will last can only depend on rate of obtaining and people's confidence.

Nothing that hasn't already been posted on another thread tbh. The fact he took the bother to post a separate thread with an account made specifically for this purpose, when until very recently there was a similar discussion thread on the first page of this subforum, is extremely suspect.

 

Agreed, just watch the username & post count lol

Someone who's advertising mint cakes probably has alot of 'em and hopes to trigger others to buy em so his business keeps going...

 

'DON'T GET FOOLED BY IDIOTS' is the sticker I'd paste on his forehead now :)

[Squisher_33]

grimy torstol, can transfer around 70m/h

[qeltar]

grimy torstol, can transfer around 70m/h

What exactly do you mean by that?

[Saru Inc]

Mint cakes will be stable, until in a while, well they're not. There's bound to be someone on rs who has secretly beendoing the minigame and collecting hundreds of mints all this time. Now, when that person goes to w2 and says "hey look at all these mints," then the ppl on w2 will panic thinking, well, if one guy has this many then there has to be a lot more like him! So they'll look for a new item, even more rare, and use that instead.

[Riemis]

Mint cakes will be stable, until in a while, well they're not. There's bound to be someone on rs who has secretly beendoing the minigame and collecting hundreds of mints all this time. Now, when that person goes to w2 and says "hey look at all these mints," then the ppl on w2 will panic thinking, well, if one guy has this many then there has to be a lot more like him! So they'll look for a new item, even more rare, and use that instead.

 

If I had 100s of mints I would use them to get items, not to scare merchants and devalue them :s

(Unless I can manipulate people into getting a new rare item, of which I already have 100s :P)

[Robert_R]

Mint cakes will be stable, until in a while, well they're not. There's bound to be someone on rs who has secretly beendoing the minigame and collecting hundreds of mints all this time. Now, when that person goes to w2 and says "hey look at all these mints," then the ppl on w2 will panic thinking, well, if one guy has this many then there has to be a lot more like him! So they'll look for a new item, even more rare, and use that instead.

If someone has hundreds of mint cakes I don't think he would just go to the ge and show someone all of them unless he's just plain stupid. He would most likely sell them off slowly or trade them for a rare. It wouldn't be very smart for someone to kill an item they have a lot of just because he wants to show someone he has a lot of them.

 

That's all assuming that would actually kill mint cakes.

 

But ya I agree mint cakes will stop being today's new currency and people will move on to something rarer but probably more useless than mint cakes.

[Saru Inc]

Mint cakes will be stable, until in a while, well they're not. There's bound to be someone on rs who has secretly beendoing the minigame and collecting hundreds of mints all this time. Now, when that person goes to w2 and says "hey look at all these mints," then the ppl on w2 will panic thinking, well, if one guy has this many then there has to be a lot more like him! So they'll look for a new item, even more rare, and use that instead.

If someone has hundreds of mint cakes I don't think he would just go to the ge and show someone all of them unless he's just plain stupid. He would most likely sell them off slowly or trade them for a rare. It wouldn't be very smart for someone to kill an item they have a lot of just because he wants to show someone he has a lot of them.

 

That's all assuming that would actually kill mint cakes.

 

But ya I agree mint cakes will stop being today's new currency and people will move on to something rarer but probably more useless than mint cakes.

 

 

The vast majority of 'Scapers are idiots; anything that'll set them apart from the others and they'll jump on it, they never think before they act.

[Low C]

I had 30 mints at one point and had no use for them. That was when they were 1m per street. I don't see the point in them unless your a big time party hat merchant.