Bots are making a come-back

[michel555555]

I don't see why people complain about bots, if anything you should applaud them. With inflation so high as it is we need more bots. Back prior to RWT updates, everything was cheap, now look at it.. Yew logs at almost 500gp? Wake up.

 

ever think that less bots would actually lower inflation? The shortage of raw materials means a shortage of finished products which would also mean a decrease in cash from alchers. The shortage of finished products also means pkers have to skill more to get gear for their next pk run which means less cash coming in from statues.

[Saru Inc]

Doesn't work that way, take an economics class, to be brutually honest.

[Musica]

I don't see why people complain about bots, if anything you should applaud them. With inflation so high as it is we need more bots. Back prior to RWT updates, everything was cheap, now look at it.. Yew logs at almost 500gp? Wake up.

 

ever think that less bots would actually lower inflation? The shortage of raw materials means a shortage of finished products which would also mean a decrease in cash from alchers. The shortage of finished products also means pkers have to skill more to get gear for their next pk run which means less cash coming in from statues.

 

I really don't know what to say.. the post is so crappy. Let's start off with Supply and Demand, when there is a low supply of said item, but there is a high demand for said item, the price will go up. What about Alchers? They don't really de-value our money. Player-Killers skilling? LOL. Only thing I will agree on is that statues need to be fixed.

 

It took me a couple of reads to understand your post, please use good English when replying to me from now on. Thanks.

[michel555555]

I don't see why people complain about bots, if anything you should applaud them. With inflation so high as it is we need more bots. Back prior to RWT updates, everything was cheap, now look at it.. Yew logs at almost 500gp? Wake up.

 

ever think that less bots would actually lower inflation? The shortage of raw materials means a shortage of finished products which would also mean a decrease in cash from alchers. The shortage of finished products also means pkers have to skill more to get gear for their next pk run which means less cash coming in from statues.

 

I really don't know what to say.. the post is so crappy. Let's start off with Supply and Demand, when there is a low supply of said item, but there is a high demand for said item, the price will go up. What about Alchers? They don't really de-value our money. Player-Killers skilling? LOL. Only thing I will agree on is that statues need to be fixed.

 

It took me a couple of reads to understand your post, please use good English when replying to me from now on. Thanks.

 

Inflation is caused when an excess of currency is introduced into a market and causes products to cost more because the currencey loses its value correct?

So how does slowing the cash from alchers and statues not slow inflation since there would be a decrease in cash coming into the market.

 

Supply and demand would cause things to rise for a time, but thats how the market is supposed to work. Lower and med level players would begin to train on whatever makes the best cash, yews drags, ect. and cause that product to decrease in value as supply goes up. Until they move on to the next.

[howbadisbad]

Crap It would cost 39mil for 80 prayer....

 

 

Where are those green drag bots when you need them???

 

EDIT: Found this quote.

 

My rant being picked to pieces, I over exaggerated quite a bit, which still does not change the fact that CW and SC are heinously slanted towards ancienters.

 

:mellow:

 

Get stronger.

 

LOL there was a quote on that i saw somwhere...from a J mod says somthing like:

 

In any MMO the battle for stuff the strongest always win, get stronger or go somwhere else.. Somtihng like that.

 

ANyhow ye, get anicets or find a differnet game those ppl are not gonig anywhere just caue i don't like them lol

 

 

Its funny how many random quotes you can find that "support/defend" botting and the person speaking has no clue.

[quelmotz]

It's technically impossible to design a foolproof bug detecting system. Heck, it's already almost impossible for Jagex's small team of developers to continuously keep up to date with EVERY SINGLE bot program. So why waste time and money trying to fix the bot detection system? They'll just wait till the community is very angry about the situation to make some fixes, just to avoid losing customers.

[Pepsiguy]

I don't see why people complain about bots, if anything you should applaud them. With inflation so high as it is we need more bots. Back prior to RWT updates, everything was cheap, now look at it.. Yew logs at almost 500gp? Wake up.

 

ever think that less bots would actually lower inflation? The shortage of raw materials means a shortage of finished products which would also mean a decrease in cash from alchers. The shortage of finished products also means pkers have to skill more to get gear for their next pk run which means less cash coming in from statues.

 

I really don't know what to say.. the post is so crappy. Let's start off with Supply and Demand, when there is a low supply of said item, but there is a high demand for said item, the price will go up. What about Alchers? They don't really de-value our money. Player-Killers skilling? LOL. Only thing I will agree on is that statues need to be fixed.

 

It took me a couple of reads to understand your post, please use good English when replying to me from now on. Thanks.

 

Inflation is caused when an excess of currency is introduced into a market and causes products to cost more because the currencey loses its value correct?

So how does slowing the cash from alchers and statues not slow inflation since there would be a decrease in cash coming into the market.

 

Supply and demand would cause things to rise for a time, but thats how the market is supposed to work. Lower and med level players would begin to train on whatever makes the best cash, yews drags, ect. and cause that product to decrease in value as supply goes up. Until they move on to the next.

i agree with you

i mean ive read stuff about what happened to germany after ww1, they had no money left so what did they do,they started making faking fake money and using that to pay reparations, thus starting inflation, everything went so much in price, a loaf of bread could cost 100 american dollars or even more

and im not fully comparing these to different things, just the inflation

 

also i kind of support those people that say whos gives a crap about bots, but only in certain parts, for instance like the new fun way to train fm, totally agree on that, i dont want to see flames hour after hour(and i still dont get why its a skill) but i wouldnt want a bot to do my fm for me, the day ill get bored ill probably try fm again or have fun with it and block the path of other peoples

 

Crap It would cost 39mil for 80 prayer....

 

 

Where are those green drag bots when you need them???

 

EDIT: Found this quote.

 

My rant being picked to pieces, I over exaggerated quite a bit, which still does not change the fact that CW and SC are heinously slanted towards ancienters.

 

:mellow:

 

Get stronger.

 

LOL there was a quote on that i saw somwhere...from a J mod says somthing like:

 

In any MMO the battle for stuff the strongest always win, get stronger or go somwhere else.. Somtihng like that.

 

ANyhow ye, get anicets or find a differnet game those ppl are not gonig anywhere just caue i don't like them lol

 

 

Its funny how many random quotes you can find that "support/defend" botting and the person speaking has no clue.

ya i read that before lol, its like running into a battle with no weapon,but sometimes you forget and idk where im going with this lol

Edited June 8, 2010 by Mirrorforced
Merged your three posts together

[langer]

I don't see why people complain about bots, if anything you should applaud them. With inflation so high as it is we need more bots. Back prior to RWT updates, everything was cheap, now look at it.. Yew logs at almost 500gp? Wake up.

 

ever think that less bots would actually lower inflation? The shortage of raw materials means a shortage of finished products which would also mean a decrease in cash from alchers. The shortage of finished products also means pkers have to skill more to get gear for their next pk run which means less cash coming in from statues.

 

I really don't know what to say.. the post is so crappy. Let's start off with Supply and Demand, when there is a low supply of said item, but there is a high demand for said item, the price will go up. What about Alchers? They don't really de-value our money. Player-Killers skilling? LOL. Only thing I will agree on is that statues need to be fixed.

 

It took me a couple of reads to understand your post, please use good English when replying to me from now on. Thanks.

 

The thing you need to take into account is that botters find themselves with undeserved wealth and since they took no effort in gaining their wealth, they have no attachment to their wealth and will buy what they want at any price, not caring to buy at the higher end... thus contributing to inflation.

[Xenolith]

Everybody screams at JaGex to fix the botting problem - but the truth is, there is very little they can actually do.

Botting programs are ridiculously human-like nowadays - it's not like the old days of level 3 players named "123rkm3"

They purposefully misclick, rotate camera angles, even talk.

 

If JaGex were to beef up their bot-detection software, thousands of legitimate players would be banned as well, just because they're sick at home, and have nothing better to do than fish for hours on end (for example).

It's like the real world, where everybody wants to be protected by their government, but nobody wants to give up private information to ensure that protection - they just scream and throw tantrums when the government fails them.

 

The only real way to bust botters is to report them - but then again, JaGex's report in-box is flooded by thousands (probably millions) of false reports by kiddies who automatically assume that somebody with public chat off is botting, and/or revenge reports.

 

But like others have said, Runescape without botting would be... frustrating at the least - even more frustrating than it is now.

Think of the last time you went to the Grand Exchange and bought any large amount of raw materials - yews, coal, raw lobsters.

Now there are a LOT more botters out there than you would imagine - see above for humanlike characteristics.

That's a LOT of raw materials that are thrown into GE boxes.

Imagine that supply of goods suddenly dried up.

Not fun.

 

I know it's frustrating when botters steal your favorite spot to skill - it's happened to me loads of times.

There's simply not a whole bunch anybody can do about it - sometimes life is like that (What?! Runescape like real life?!)

I know it's annoying seeing somebody with a skill-cape, when you know that they probably botted it, while you actually worked for it.

But you know that you did it legitimately and didn't cheat for it, and that's all that should matter.

[Saru Inc]

wtf? Pm people? Talk to people? No they can't. lmao.

[RSBDavid]

wtf? Pm people? Talk to people? No they can't. lmao.

I hope that is sarcasm.

 

To sw0rd95;

 

You agree that bots are back and act like regular players now, YET you say that all bots should be banned and whatnot. The problem is that it is really hard to determine a well-built bot between a legit player. SO basically, you say anyone who seems like a bot should get ban-hammered.

 

The way I see it is bots are like illegal immigrants. They do all of the work the players do not want to do, use that money for their own economies, and piss a bunch of people off. The only thing they don't get in Runescape is health care, food stamps, and cell phones.

 

Your last statement which implicates the use of cats and tele-other spells doesn't work anymore. Programmers have built algorithms and subroutines which can bypass any attempts at blocking their goals. Before, you could use fires to block red chin bots, now they just place traps in other locations.

[Saru Inc]

Can you provide proof they can talk? If not then you have no case.

[Xenolith]

Can you provide proof they can talk? If not then you have no case.

 

I just found three scripts for a chat responder on a botting forum.

Took me about two minutes.

They were all free - and all had decent feedback.

 

Granted, their responses weren't too complex, but they would fool the majority of players.

 

So... good fight?

[Sir_Squab]

Bots are capable of a lot more than just gathering. Masses of people are gaining an unfair advantage.

 

Its their life, I'm choosing not to bot. If anything, it's my loss. The only reason I don't bot, is because I won't have the same feeling of achievement, I imagine.

"my loss?" ..."That's the only reason I don't bot"...?

You should probably reconsider how you phrase your words. It sounded like you just endorsed botting, that it is the smart thing to do...?

 

 

Is that a threat? lol?

 

Isn't the only reason people don't do illegal things? I'd rob a bank any day, but I don't want to go to jail.

 

Some people have the philosophy that crime in itself is morally wrong, rather then being something to avoid simply due to the potential negative consequences.

 

In other words, people like me view crime as wrong, rather then something that comes with a negative consequence.

[Saru Inc]

Can you provide proof they can talk? If not then you have no case.

 

I just found three scripts for a chat responder on a botting forum.

Took me about two minutes.

They were all free - and all had decent feedback.

 

Granted, their responses weren't too complex, but they would fool the majority of players.

 

So... good fight?

 

Didn't provide the link. So yes, good fight. pj'd

[anonymouse_]

I just found three scripts for a chat responder on a botting forum.

Took me about two minutes.

They were all free - and all had decent feedback.

 

Granted, their responses weren't too complex, but they would fool the majority of players.

 

So... good fight?

Only noobs use those. They increase the chance of getting banned.

 

Everybody screams at JaGex to fix the botting problem - but the truth is, there is very little they can actually do.

Botting programs are ridiculously human-like nowadays - it's not like the old days of level 3 players named "123rkm3"

They purposefully misclick, rotate camera angles, even talk.

 

If JaGex were to beef up their bot-detection software, thousands of legitimate players would be banned as well, just because they're sick at home, and have nothing better to do than fish for hours on end (for example).

Their detection system is 100% reports and failed randoms :thumbup:

 

The thing you need to take into account is that botters find themselves with undeserved wealth and since they took no effort in gaining their wealth, they have no attachment to their wealth and will buy what they want at any price, not caring to buy at the higher end... thus contributing to inflation.

Wealth is only redistributed, hence no effect on inflation :thumbdown:

[Pepsiguy]

bots could talk, but not like a legit player would talk to people, have you guys seen that one guy post up about the alice robot, ya it can respond to you,but you can obviously tell if its a bot or not.

 

and at evil eye, you think giving money is the solotion to it? make eveything go up in price, cuz it would be kinda of weird to see the price of a loaf of break 1k or even more

[Saru Inc]

I don't feel like I'm alone when I provide the following statement to the previous post.

 

 

What?

 

 

Giving money? How would that work? And if bread broke 1k then barrows would be like 100m, so I don't think it'd be the worst of our problems. (I'm assuming bread is at the 20 gp ish range)

[AirWales]

Question; you said you reported bots whenever you see them, bots don't talk right? Yet you can only report players who you've recently spoken/traded with. Please explain.

[Karvinen]

Can you provide proof they can talk? If not then you have no case.

 

I just found three scripts for a chat responder on a botting forum.

Took me about two minutes.

They were all free - and all had decent feedback.

 

Granted, their responses weren't too complex, but they would fool the majority of players.

 

So... good fight?

 

Didn't provide the link. So yes, good fight. pj'd

 

It would be against the forum rules to post the link.

 

Pseudocode:

 

if chatline == "hi" { 
say ("hi");
}

if chatline == "wc level"  {
say ("My wc level is " + character.getWoodcuttingLevel());
}

//etc

 

Not very hard.

 

Remember: there is no rule that says you must respond to others while playing the game. Reports for not responding are false reports that overload Jagex's anticheat team. More false reports means less banned real cheaters.

 

Jagex even provides means to block chat messages (ignore list and public chat off/friends options).

[qeltar]

Everybody screams at JaGex to fix the botting problem - but the truth is, there is very little they can actually do.

For the umpteenth time... bots are NOT a problem unique to RS or Jagex, and the solution to them is already well-known: CAPTCHAs.

 

Jagex will show it is serious about botting when it deals with them on a systemic basis. So far I see nothing in that regard. In fairness, this has occurred because we all whined about randoms and they drastically cut them down, but they've gone too far.

 

We need simple, short puzzles/randoms that appear to stop bots without wasting 1-5 minutes of real players' time. Not Leo the gravedigger, just simple CAPTCHAs will do, and they are not hard to implement at all.

[Cacmypants]

Everybody screams at JaGex to fix the botting problem - but the truth is, there is very little they can actually do.

For the umpteenth time... bots are NOT a problem unique to RS or Jagex, and the solution to them is already well-known: CAPTCHAs.

 

Jagex will show it is serious about botting when it deals with them on a systemic basis. So far I see nothing in that regard. In fairness, this has occurred because we all whined about randoms and they drastically cut them down, but they've gone too far.

 

We need simple, short puzzles/randoms that appear to stop bots without wasting 1-5 minutes of real players' time. Not Leo the gravedigger, just simple CAPTCHAs will do, and they are not hard to implement at all.

 

RS Classic had proper CAPTCHAs, diddn't it? Like with the fatigue system? Idk, I never played classic and I have no idea if it actually worked.

[Karvinen]

Everybody screams at JaGex to fix the botting problem - but the truth is, there is very little they can actually do.

For the umpteenth time... bots are NOT a problem unique to RS or Jagex, and the solution to them is already well-known: CAPTCHAs.

 

Jagex will show it is serious about botting when it deals with them on a systemic basis. So far I see nothing in that regard. In fairness, this has occurred because we all whined about randoms and they drastically cut them down, but they've gone too far.

 

We need simple, short puzzles/randoms that appear to stop bots without wasting 1-5 minutes of real players' time. Not Leo the gravedigger, just simple CAPTCHAs will do, and they are not hard to implement at all.

CAPTCHAs were used in RuneScape Classic (fatigue & sleeping bags) and cheaters easily bypassed them by sending screenshots of the CAPTCHAs over IRC to other cheaters. Writing a CAPTCHA code for someone gave one point and having someone else write it for you cost one point.

[langer]

Question; you said you reported bots whenever you see them, bots don't talk right? Yet you can only report players who you've recently spoken/traded with. Please explain.

 

 

Hmm are you sure it's not only for bad language? I certainly could report the player for using macros. If I couldn't, how would reports work?

[qeltar]

Everybody screams at JaGex to fix the botting problem - but the truth is, there is very little they can actually do.

For the umpteenth time... bots are NOT a problem unique to RS or Jagex, and the solution to them is already well-known: CAPTCHAs.

 

Jagex will show it is serious about botting when it deals with them on a systemic basis. So far I see nothing in that regard. In fairness, this has occurred because we all whined about randoms and they drastically cut them down, but they've gone too far.

 

We need simple, short puzzles/randoms that appear to stop bots without wasting 1-5 minutes of real players' time. Not Leo the gravedigger, just simple CAPTCHAs will do, and they are not hard to implement at all.

CAPTCHAs were used in RuneScape Classic (fatigue & sleeping bags) and cheaters easily bypassed them by sending screenshots of the CAPTCHAs over IRC to other cheaters. Writing a CAPTCHA code for someone gave one point and having someone else write it for you cost one point.

Edit: Never mind what I wrote before.

 

I found a page describing how CAPTCHAs used to work in RSC, with an example.

 

That was a very crude attempt and not surprising that it didn't work. Jagex could make proper CAPTCHAs using the same sorts of techniques they currently use for randoms, and I very seriously doubt any bot could handle them.