An Intelligent Perspective On Botters

[Jehosaphat]

because it takes 50 hours to get it the "better" armor? the game is designed like this

 

 

 

X amount of time at a low lvl will get you low lvl gear and low lvl money (yes, low lvl money, aka 250k, 1m max)

 

That same x amount of time at a much higher lvl will you get you higher lvl gear and much higher lvl money (20m+)

 

 

-chinning for range xp costs several mils per lvl

-ice bursting costs several mils for mage and summoning xp per lvl

-training prayer costs crap loads of $$

-training cb at higher lvls require p pots and sharks = lots of money

 

^ these are what higher lvl players need

 

-you cant expect to make alot of money at lower lvls, its not that simple in real life and its not that simple ingame either... you have to work your ways up the charts. dont be so ignorant. you only make 110k an hour mining iron for a reason, low reqs. With 91 hunter u make the same as boss hunting.

 

-woodcutting makes no profit because its an easy skill, until jagex updates it, dont do it if u dont like it. nuff said. it hasnt been profitable since the creation of rs2 tbh...

 

 

American dream folks, or should i say, the Runescapers dream. Lvl up, make more, get better armor, lvl up more, make more, etc

Yes, I understand that higher level = more money, IF YOU CAN AFFORD THE GEAR NOT TO GET CRASHED TO HELL.

 

And according to you, the best way to make money for that gear is with methods that require the gear. CATCH-22 WHEEEE

[nubbycubby]

Is this thread still about bots? Level 71 kid trolled us.

[Nash]

 

And according to you, the best way to make money for that gear is with methods that require the gear. CATCH-22 WHEEEE

 

 

The best way to raise woodcutting is with a dragon axe, which uses money you make from cutting logs with your previous axe

 

The best way to raise mining is with a dragon axe, which uses money to buy, which you made from ming

 

 

what the hell are you getting at

 

 

on topic, im proving why botters arent making it unfair for the noob, im showing its pretty balanced and that they need to remove other things b4 bots

[stonewall337]

The rich want to stay rich and they want the poor to stay poor as usual. The point of runescape is supposed to be choice. There are hundreds of things to do in this game, yet every time this discussion comes up, those who can make millions per hour just say something along the lines of Well I spend hours getting the levels so why shouldn't i get more money?

 

Guess what, those who skill spend hours getting levels too. Woodcutters spend hours getting their levels because they choose too. Why should they be penalised for that just because you chose a different path? You should be able to do everything in this game and make reasonable money doing so.

 

The argument of risk vs reward wasn't so bad back when the most expensive drops were below 20m, but now that you can get drops worth upwards of 60m, the difference compared to skilling is out of this world. If most items were still lost on death then I would agree more that it is risky, but it really is not.

 

 

People do not seem to realise that new players cannot hope to get wealthy to become the next generation of monster hunters. The poor cannot monster hunt due to the wealthy crashing them, and they cannot skill for money due to its hugely low gp/h compared to items needed.

 

Gp/h for skilling has remained flat for years, yet the gp/h made from monster hunting has increased tenfold. How is that fair?

 

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

Faulty logic. You are appealing to emotion, that isn't a valid argument.

 

Skillers spend far less time WCing then MH'ers spend training and earning. I don't mind skilling making cash, heck I'd love it. Then I'd have a reason to get skills up for some other reason then total levels or to get a certain level all. But I think it is perfectly fair as it is.

 

Next time skillers get a mini game like raiding in order to get a better gathering tool, or actually risk something skilling, or something of the like, I'd support.

[Kilo]

Right after all of those spikes in your charts the price went back down, so the bots had little effect. The way you titled your thread makes it sound like anyone who hates bots isn't smart (just pointing that out).

 

I agree with you on PvP drops, those things are idiotic and the only reason they're in the game is because jagex didn't have any other better ideas on how to handle the crying pkers.

[Nash]

Who are you trying to fool Danqazmlp? none of your skills that arent combat related at 90+ of course your not going to make good money skilling... good god you dont see ppl with lvl 70 combat stats raking in the dough, why should skillers with 70 wc or mining be any fricken different?

 

 

Therefore, botters dont affect lower or higher lvl ppl. Therefore, they still actually help us

 

 

 

 

 

Kilo the prices go back down because the bots got fixed -.-

 

 

and yes, it is unintelligent, or, ignorant is a better word to hate botters. the only objection is they unfairly get higher stats that legit players work hard for. But they never point out the plus sides of having botters around.

[mememe513]

@ OP: So yeah, bots grind so that the rest of us don't have to. Yes, this does lead to decreased costs for raw products, but at what cost? The rich benefit from it, since now they can easily level buyable skills, but it hurts honest, hard-working skillers that are just trying to scrape by in the coal mines and such. Also, the main problem is the basis of bots: programs playing for you. Essentially, it's cheating.

 

 

Edit since I don't feel like posting a response: I'm a F2P player/not a very intense player. I don't just go out, kill a couple thousand dragons, sell the loot, and buy my way to a 99. Most of the levels I'm getting these days is the result of at the very least an hour of grinding, I doubt you could say the same.

[Nash]

looking at your stats mememe513, you cant honestly expect to make that much money can you? i mean come on... you dont even have a 80+ skill... thats just stupid to even argue.

 

 

lol you sound like a slave meme, scraping in the coal mines... why dont you lvl it to 85 and mine rune? or get a skill that, actually makes good money like rc up?

 

and another thing, Im SICK of people saying high lvl players arent hard working and honest. what the hell? weve put in soooooo many more hours then you to get where we are. we deserve more money.

[Jehosaphat]

good god you dont see ppl with lvl 70 combat stats raking in the dough, why should skillers with 70 wc or mining be any fricken different?

 

 

Therefore, botters dont affect lower or higher lvl ppl. Therefore, they still actually help us

"You don't see people working at Burger King raking in money, why should workers at Dairy Queen and Taco Bell be any different?

 

So, we can replace most of them with robots and neither they nor the CEO would care."

 

^ IRL analogy of what you just said.

[Nash]

good god you dont see ppl with lvl 70 combat stats raking in the dough, why should skillers with 70 wc or mining be any fricken different?

 

 

Therefore, botters dont affect lower or higher lvl ppl. Therefore, they still actually help us

"You don't see people working at Burger King raking in money, why should workers at Dairy Queen and Taco Bell be any different?

 

So, we can replace most of them with robots and neither they nor the CEO would care."

 

^ IRL analogy of what you just said.

 

 

omg what are you getting at?? that makes perfect sense except for the robots part lol. bots in runescape arent replacing low lvls... just working along side them.

 

somebody at taco bell should only make the same as somebody at burger king. if those ppl want to make more money then work harder for a better job. thats how it works. grow up.

[Jehosaphat]

good god you dont see ppl with lvl 70 combat stats raking in the dough, why should skillers with 70 wc or mining be any fricken different?

 

 

Therefore, botters dont affect lower or higher lvl ppl. Therefore, they still actually help us

"You don't see people working at Burger King raking in money, why should workers at Dairy Queen and Taco Bell be any different?

 

So, we can replace most of them with robots and neither they nor the CEO would care."

 

^ IRL analogy of what you just said.

 

 

omg what are you getting at?? that makes perfect sense except for the robots part lol. bots in runescape arent replacing low lvls... just working along side them.

 

somebody at taco bell should only make the same as somebody at burger king. if those ppl want to make more money then work harder for a better job. thats how it works. grow up.

Really? So.... if I'm a relatively low level, trying to make money through green dragons, I'm not going to get most of my opportunities beaten out by a bot?

 

And how am I supposed to work harder for a better job when most of my work is being replaced by a robot, and the only way for me to get a better job is to go to college, thus using more money that I can't earn because of the robot taking my job?

 

Oh, and the "grow up" comment was completely unnecessary.

[stonewall337]

good god you dont see ppl with lvl 70 combat stats raking in the dough, why should skillers with 70 wc or mining be any fricken different?

 

 

Therefore, botters dont affect lower or higher lvl ppl. Therefore, they still actually help us

"You don't see people working at Burger King raking in money, why should workers at Dairy Queen and Taco Bell be any different?

 

So, we can replace most of them with robots and neither they nor the CEO would care."

 

^ IRL analogy of what you just said.

And if the robots worked right, why would it matter?

[Nash]

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

It doesnt make the rest of the game obsolete, actually the opposite. it makes being lvl 10 just as fun as being lvl 80 (max). Your armor and skills' costs reflect your armor. runescape works off this. lvl 8s can afford steel. lvl 50s can afford rune, lvl 80s can afford dragon and barrows. lvl 100+ can afford GWD armor. thats how it works. its not unfair its the way it works. dont be so narrow minded.

[Jehosaphat]

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

It doesnt make the rest of the game obsolete, actually the opposite. it makes being lvl 10 just as fun as being lvl 80 (max). Your armor and skills' costs reflect your armor. runescape works off this. lvl 8s can afford steel. lvl 50s can afford rune, lvl 80s can afford dragon and barrows. lvl 100+ can afford GWD armor. thats how it works. its not unfair its the way it works. dont be so narrow minded.

And how is a level 80 supposed to afford dragon when all the resources they manage to gather and sell come out to barely worth rune due to bots gathering the same resources?

 

Face it, bots make everything harder for everyone except those who require the botted resources, and have methods of making money that are difficult to bot.

 

The day someone comes out with a level-138-Turmoil-Overloads Bandos-killing bot is the day Bandos armor crashes to the ground. And then where will your monsterhunting be?

[Nash]

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

It doesnt make the rest of the game obsolete, actually the opposite. it makes being lvl 10 just as fun as being lvl 80 (max). Your armor and skills' costs reflect your armor. runescape works off this. lvl 8s can afford steel. lvl 50s can afford rune, lvl 80s can afford dragon and barrows. lvl 100+ can afford GWD armor. thats how it works. its not unfair its the way it works. dont be so narrow minded.

And how is a level 80 supposed to afford dragon when all the resources they manage to gather and sell come out to barely worth rune due to bots gathering the same resources?

 

Face it, bots make everything harder for everyone except those who require the botted resources, and have methods of making money that are difficult to bot.

 

The day someone comes out with a level-138-Turmoil-Overloads Bandos-killing bot is the day Bandos armor crashes to the ground. And then where will your monsterhunting be?

 

 

dude, lvl 80s can range avansies, go to barrows, metal dragons, kills green dragons, KBD, and so many more. if your only making enough for rune armor at lvl 80 you need your head examined... or take a look at the many useful guides in the Archive of Wisdom section...

[Wantmyar]

ITT: People with low levels who want to make money like the higher levels

[Jehosaphat]

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

It doesnt make the rest of the game obsolete, actually the opposite. it makes being lvl 10 just as fun as being lvl 80 (max). Your armor and skills' costs reflect your armor. runescape works off this. lvl 8s can afford steel. lvl 50s can afford rune, lvl 80s can afford dragon and barrows. lvl 100+ can afford GWD armor. thats how it works. its not unfair its the way it works. dont be so narrow minded.

And how is a level 80 supposed to afford dragon when all the resources they manage to gather and sell come out to barely worth rune due to bots gathering the same resources?

 

Face it, bots make everything harder for everyone except those who require the botted resources, and have methods of making money that are difficult to bot.

 

The day someone comes out with a level-138-Turmoil-Overloads Bandos-killing bot is the day Bandos armor crashes to the ground. And then where will your monsterhunting be?

 

 

dude, lvl 80s can range avansies, go to barrows, metal dragons, kills green dragons, KBD, and so many more. if your only making enough for rune armor at lvl 80 you need your head examined... or take a look at the many useful guides in the Archive of Wisdom section...

Green dragons: Driven out by bots.

Barrows: Soon as the bot comes out...

Aviansies: I'm actually surprised there are no bots for these. Like, REALLY surprised.

 

I guess my main point is that once bots become prevalent enough, they'll screw everybody over. Once the people running Green Dragon bots realize that they'll get more gp/hour by not competing with other bots, they'll code bots for Aviansies, Barrows, metal dragons, KBD....

 

And Wanty, I'm not an overly low level, I'm just too lazy to get off my butt and kill stuff. My problem is laziness; not lack of ability.

[stonewall337]

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

It doesnt make the rest of the game obsolete, actually the opposite. it makes being lvl 10 just as fun as being lvl 80 (max). Your armor and skills' costs reflect your armor. runescape works off this. lvl 8s can afford steel. lvl 50s can afford rune, lvl 80s can afford dragon and barrows. lvl 100+ can afford GWD armor. thats how it works. its not unfair its the way it works. dont be so narrow minded.

And how is a level 80 supposed to afford dragon when all the resources they manage to gather and sell come out to barely worth rune due to bots gathering the same resources?

 

Face it, bots make everything harder for everyone except those who require the botted resources, and have methods of making money that are difficult to bot.

 

The day someone comes out with a level-138-Turmoil-Overloads Bandos-killing bot is the day Bandos armor crashes to the ground. And then where will your monsterhunting be?

 

Why do SKILLERS need ARMOR. Not to mention any level 80 can make ~10m in a week easy.

[PereGrin]

BELIEVE ME, SIR, those who attempt to level, never equalize. In all societies, consisting of various descriptions of citizens, some description must be uppermost. The levelers, therefore, only change and pervert the natural order of things; they load the edifice of society by setting up in the air what the solidity of the structure requires to be on the ground. The association of tailors and carpenters, of which the republic (of Paris, for instance) is composed, cannot be equal to the situation into which by the worst of usurpations an usurpation on the prerogatives of nature you attempt to force them.

 

Edmund Burke was a very famous philosopher in his day. He published Reflections on the Revolution in France in 1790. People have been trying to create equality among men for hundreds of years. No one has suceeded yet.

 

I colored the text that allows you to get the main point of that paragraph.

 

The poor will always be with us.

[Central_Keeper]

BELIEVE ME, SIR, those who attempt to level, never equalize. In all societies, consisting of various descriptions of citizens, some description must be uppermost. The levelers, therefore, only change and pervert the natural order of things; they load the edifice of society by setting up in the air what the solidity of the structure requires to be on the ground. The association of tailors and carpenters, of which the republic (of Paris, for instance) is composed, cannot be equal to the situation into which by the worst of usurpations — an usurpation on the prerogatives of nature — you attempt to force them.

 

Edmund Burke was a very famous philosopher in his day. He published Reflections on the Revolution in France in 1790. People have been trying to create equality among men for hundreds of years. No one has suceeded yet.

 

I colored the text that allows you to get the main point of that paragraph.

 

The poor will always be with us.

 

I talked to one of my friends about the equalization between poor and riches. I was trying to simplified things by saying that why don't riches give equal amount of their earning to the poor, and everyone will be happy. But then he stated that due to the way poor and riches think (very differently), and not knowing how to make money efficiently, rich ones will always make more and poor ones will stay poor (given amount of time).

 

It's same with RS players, most just want instant riches (beggars and scammers from awhile back), not knowing how to make money patiently will always result in a gap between rich and poorer RS players.

 

Back to the bot problem, I remember back in 05 to early 07 when RS truly flourish (or normal) until bots start to appear like crazy. For one thing, the legit players can't compete with bots taking all their spots and cheap prices, and other skillers takes the advantage of cheap items prices to get huge money and xp spike. When the bots were removed due to major updates, its like a withdraw symptom happening, prices went up due to insufficient amount of gathers (the players who stopped gathering due to massive botting, or maybe a false supply created by the bots to begin with).

 

Another theory is that not a lot of new RS player these days, so with all the existing new players become veterans, not many people want to spend time to gather materials, and instead focus more on training to be elites.

 

Still, just from my opinions and observations, maybe its totally different things. But, certainly that bots have evolve along with the game to the point that its really hard to differentiate them compare to the old days.

 

Just another input, I think its really easy to make money nowadays. Rune essence mining was like 20gp ea, now they are like 70 something? Iron ore used to be like 75, now its over 200. Normal bones use to be....well quite worthless, now they are like 150+. The most scary one I seen was limproot, which in my time used to be 100 ea or useless, now they are like what 2k ea? And I used to spend like 5 hours a day gathering those....... Either we were all hardcore players back then or people just got lazy over the time.

[Saru Inc]

Wait. srry. 1.5m+ for puro puro imps? Why do people make up numbers like these. it's unrealistic. I have hunted many a morning, as many of my friends, never to find a single drag or kingly. And its not that we're searching "in the wrong spot" or anything. Too many other hunters.

[Sir_Kurity]

And I make ~4.5m gp/hr at DKS. Why shouldn't I? I spent hundred of hours, and over 1b on my gear and stats. If you want to make that kind of money, train up. Hell, I've trained attack more then DOUBLE the amount you've trained ALL your skills. And yet you tell me I shouldn't make good cash?

 

I never said you shouldnt make good cash, merely that skilling needs an improvement.

 

~150k an hour is simply not comparable to how much you can get hunting monsters. Infact im a pure, and i still make much more money hunting dragons than i do skilling.

 

And a lot of this is because of bots, if they were removed, the prices of raw materials would rise, meaning skilling would make better money. We all know it still wouldnt be comparable to monster hunting, but at least its an improvement on the current (crap), rates.

 

Isnt it a bit selfish to want bots to stay just so you can hunt monsters easier?

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

intresting vew on things, i have seen many "bots keep things low!!!!" posts but nuthing worth turely mentioning.

 

also, i have to say that besides your word, i have nuthing that says update = less bots = higher price. for all i know thouse spikes could just be merch clans. i do belive you, but only becouse i think your honest.

 

but besides that, i do think all you say in your post is true, in a top 10 list of things to fix i would put botting about 5 now that i think about it!

although this sill changes nuthing, bots SHOULD be removed.

[The Dark Lord]

The rich want to stay rich and they want the poor to stay poor as usual. The point of runescape is supposed to be choice. There are hundreds of things to do in this game, yet every time this discussion comes up, those who can make millions per hour just say something along the lines of Well I spend hours getting the levels so why shouldn't i get more money?

 

That's one of the reasons why Runescape has degenerated into such an awful game. I sincerely believe that the community as a whole has become far more selfish than they have been in the past. Everyone wants to make more money. Everyone wants to do X something a certain way so they can be efficient. The list goes on and on. If people quit worrying about making money or getting the most out of their experience potentials, they could enjoy the game and make the community friendlier.

 

As for the issue concerning macro users, I believe that it's not such a big deal. Jagex has far more important things to do than just sitting around and banning everyone who uses a bot.

[MrGandalf]

First off, we all started at the bottom. So you can't argue that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. How did the rich get their money? By putting in the time and earned it. The people with 130+ combats put in so many more hours than the level 70 woodcutters. I think that those with high levels should be rewarded for the time they put in. Sick of being level 70 with no easy way to make money? Easy answer: put in more time and earn your levels to allow you better money making methods. Besides, Jagex is making it easier and easier for low level players to make money. I remember the days of classic where making 10k/hr was insane money. I also remember the early days of RS2 where making 100k/hr was insane. In the whole history of Runescape, high level players are the ones making the best money and it should always be that way. Put in the time and earn your rewards.

 

"But what about the level 80 players who will never afford enough money to get good gear to MH when they're high leveled?"

 

If you can't earn 100m on your way to 130 combat, you're doing it all wrong and you don't deserve it. There are so many ways to get 500k-1m a day doing 20 minutes of work. If you don't want to put in that small extra effort for the easy money each day on your way to high level combat, that's your problem.