An Intelligent Perspective On Botters

[Ryyy]

My first post on TIF - this should be interesting.

 

First off, I'd like to note that bots are nothing really to get flustered over. They perform mundane tasks with a strict logic structure that may easily be confused. For instance, one could place a green dragonhide on the floor on the other side of a portal in the Chaos Tunnels. The bots will all flock there and you could steal the kill. Also, why hasn't anyone considered facilitating to the needs of crafters/prayer-trainers of a higher caliber? Seriously, get out of the CT and go lockpick for some Raurg/Ogre bones or kill any non-green dragon (even Brutal Greens down in the whirlpool dungeon). More XP for you, and people who are willing to spend more to train their buyable skills will gladly help you get more GP.

 

Second, I forget who exactly it was on this thread, but some mod gave me the impression that they thought that all "rich, high levels" wanted every "poor, low level" to stay poor. This is simply not true. I'm a 138 with 2100+ overall and a 500M bank (just grabbed 99 prayer/herblore via dragon bones and overloads, respectively). If any "poor, low level" wants to make money by chopping oak trees for money, then I won't go powerchop the oak trees west of Varrock down just so he/she cannot make any money. On the contrary, I want them to chop and sell as many logs as they can. They could even run those oak logs to the plank-maker to profit even more. If they feel compelled to sell those oak planks on the GE, then I'm fine with that. If they want to train their construction, then they should do it.

 

Third, slayer is a decent way to make money if you're burnt out from your usual RS addiction. I don't personally care for the XP/hr or GP/hr ratio while I'm slaying. I slay to take a break from bossing while still killing things. If I want to just sit back and chat to my friends on RS, then I'll opt to skill instead. Yes - even we 138s mine, woodcut, and fish from time to time. I'll even do it if it's not THE BEST XP/hr. I'll fish for some sharks instead of using the Barbarian-style powerfishing technique.

 

Last, I would like to note that I started out like everyone else. A level 3 with 34 overall - fresh from Tutorial Island with some basic tools. I remember mining and smithing copper bars, mining 1k rune essence (for my first "real" cashpile of 20k), spinning flax into bowstrings en masse and even getting lured into wilderness with my only set of full mithril armor. I remember when GWD first came out, and I tried the Zamorak boss. I didn't know Kril was on me and he swiftly killed me with several blows. I lost a large majority of my bank since graves didn't exist and someone looted my death-pile. I skilled to get the GP for the gear back. I've been there - done that.

 

Overall, I'm asking some individuals to not demonize higher levels who hunt bosses and slay for their leisure. I promote the idea that lower levels should take the initiative to switch from the "most efficient" mainstream method of making GP and change your methodology. With the playing style of RS, we, collectively, cannot whine enough to stop the bots. On the other hand, we should stop "following the crowd" via swearing by publicly posted guide which outline a method to it's bare bones and try something new.

 

My thoughts.

[Jesus_Status]

Uhm my 91 rc didn't take little time.. Nor was it not risky (I quitted playing shortly after the wilderness was removed, got to ~88 before the GE)..

 

And well don't tell me camping bandos is risky? I used to go a lot with a few friends while I still played (and I was lvl 100-110 back then).. And never ever died, it's a piece of cake.

 

 

But there is just 1 weird thing:

since the GE was removed, rcing has become the same, or slightly less profitable

yet GWD has become more profitable

 

THAT is the weird thing I see happening now: similar happened for mining, woodcutting, fishing..

 

On the other hand if you want to TRAIN some skill for combat (herblore, prayer) it becomes much more expensive..

 

These 2 facts mean that those who went for full-combat are getting ahead money-wise from those who went (first) to level skills. And now we're getting to a point that -the way to 99- it is completely stupid to go first for skilling, and try to get better in combat thanks to the skilling you did.. The only way is to go first for combat, and thanks to the money made from combat skilling becomes easier/faster.

 

These 2 paths leading to the same goal should, in my opinion, be of similar length..

 

You say rcing is risky what do you lose if you die....nothing. You say bandos isn't risky but you only go with a team, lag out while soloing him. And people that decided to go towards the combat side are the only ones that profit, you train one skill to make 1.5m an hour easy with no risk, while we need to train 8 skills to effectivly get the 2 mil an hour. In the time it takes to get 99 att, def, strength, range, mage, prayer, summoning, hp 91 you can get 99 rc no problem

[Obtaurian]

This thread has some of the most idiotic posts on Tip.it by far. Twas a good read.

 

As has been said to death in this thread, MHing should always make more money than skilling (though if you take street prices into account, 91 hunter is probably on par with most MHing). High level players put much more time, effort, energy, and money into their accounts than level 70s with 99 woodcutting.

 

Bots make mainstream moneymaking methods (fishing, woodcutting) obsolete, but these "accepted" low level moneymakers were NEVER good money to begin with. Brand new players can easily make 100-200k an hour just by killing level 2 men! Once they've built up some starting money, it's easily possible to make 500k+ an hour on a day-old account. Just like with MHing, the best moneymaking methods never beget much experience. This is important to mention because it seems that skillers want both decent experience rates and large sums of money. You usually can't have both.

 

Bots make inferior moneymaking methods even more inferior, which isn't very problematic for anyone, IMO. Green dragons are perhaps the only instance of a decent moneymaking method that bots have somewhat ruined for lower level players, but even then it's relatively easy to get rid of or out kill the bots.

 

EDIT:

 

Why should it? Why is someone who raised their attack level high more deserving of someone who raised their fishing or mining?

 

99 Constitution

99 Attack

99 Strength

99 Defense

95 Prayer

99 Ranged

80+ Magic (preferably 95)

81+ Dungeoneering (rapier and arcane stream)

99 Summoning

92+ Herblore (stewing for overloads)

 

These are the optimal stats to make the most money from MHing through TDs and DKs. Bandos and Armadyl come close. I wont even mention the gear requirements.

 

That's a hell of a lot harder to get than 99 fishing, mining, and woodcutting combined. Need I go on?

[PereGrin]

I just spend 1 terrorbird at CT green drags. Took like 20 mins to fill up with 38 bones. If you have ~95 melee stats, you can outkill the bots no problem. I was just using a whip, and dds for specs sometimes, with a combat potion. Once I get my chaotic weapon, I may just take that down there and see if it is possible to get all 4 kills most of the time. That could potentially be like 30 bones in like 10 minutes. Or about 1m an hour profit. Of course I would have to have hoards of lvl 104s following me around to finish off the drag that i dealt ~40% damage to. Luckily I have 20 of my own personal minions stationed at green drags 24/7 in case I ever need to do this.

 

I mean, It is all theory, but if I can get 75-80% of the kills, then I might be able to get about 250 bones per hour. Thats 1k bones in a 4 hour play period. So if I do thirty 4-hour periods at green drags, I will have the bones I need for turmoil. :D

[SwreeTak]

It is true that botters make raw materials cheaper. But I think that most people, like myself, would happily pay more for our coal ores and our chins if the botters disappeared from the game.

[My_Eggs]

[hide]

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :)

 

and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :)

 

have a nice day

 

No you don'T understand, my opinions are now truth and nothing you say have any effect. You fear that people ranting against bot will make Jagex be harsher on macros and you will end up perma-ban. There I go, another baseless assumption.

 

Have a nice botter's day.

 

As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops.

 

Slaying as a moneymaker #-o

 

please stop your embarrassing me. what is that 90k (probably more) an hour without rare drops?

I have seen a lot of threads asking if slayer is a good money maker, and plenty of responses saying YES Its amazing i made 80mil, only took me 9 months of playing. Grand total of a whooping 50k an hour.

 

Or -800k an hour with extremes, cannonballs, etc.

 

 

But if your so sure im a bot, i must have an amazing one. 6 years of playing and 0 offenses.

 

 

I don't know if you've just never slayed before in you're life, or if you're just pulling numbers out of your ass, but saying slayer is 50k an hour is complete [cabbage]. :shame:

 

This is from 35 minutes at jungle strykewyrms.

 

I don't know about you, but that looks like a bit more than 50k an hour to me. :rolleyes:

 

Certain tasks are better then others, but 230k an hour is still crap :rolleyes:

 

Ring, your answer is a lol.

 

Reason 2 is equal to reason 1. They are lazy to do it, just finding an excuse to call it repetitive. Is that a joke? If they want a skill, they should train it on their own. It's just like, if you want $, get it yourself.

 

That's how playing is like. People who cheat using bots are nearly equivalent to those who stoop down to private servers.

 

Does this change your perspective?

 

 

Yes because clicking the high alch button 100k times takes skill. Its repetitive [cabbage]. Does anyone honestly find skills like that fun? If its not fun then their not doing something right.

[/hide]

 

Sigh.... I didn't realise 35 minutes was an hour now. In reality that actually comes out to around 450k an hour, which isn't bad for training combat. But either way it still proves that you're just pulling that 50k an hour number out of nowhere. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And even if some tasks are better than others, I've still yet to find a task that only makes 50k an hour... I've yet to find a task that makes only 150k an hour. And don't say hellhounds, because its pretty obvious you don't make any money there with them only dropping charms, whoever I value charms pretty highly seeing as how skills>cashpile. (I don't include clue rewards in my hourly slayer rate).

[Rock Hard]

 

Last, I would like to note that I started out like everyone else. A level 3 with 34 overall - fresh from Tutorial Island

 

nah m8 i didnt start from tutorial island !

 

good post tho ;)

[Sir_Kurity]

Bots make mainstream moneymaking methods (fishing, woodcutting) obsolete, but these "accepted" low level moneymakers were NEVER good money to begin with. Brand new players can easily make 100-200k an hour just by killing level 2 men! Once they've built up some starting money, it's easily possible to make 500k+ an hour on a day-old account.

 

Exactly, why does it need to be even worse?

[Obtaurian]

Bots make mainstream moneymaking methods (fishing, woodcutting) obsolete, but these "accepted" low level moneymakers were NEVER good money to begin with. Brand new players can easily make 100-200k an hour just by killing level 2 men! Once they've built up some starting money, it's easily possible to make 500k+ an hour on a day-old account.

 

Exactly, why does it need to be even worse?

 

My point with that particular paragraph was that bots don't hurt low level players as much as some people argue. Nice job ignoring the rest of my post, though.

[pulli23]

[hide]

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :)

 

and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :)

 

have a nice day

 

No you don'T understand, my opinions are now truth and nothing you say have any effect. You fear that people ranting against bot will make Jagex be harsher on macros and you will end up perma-ban. There I go, another baseless assumption.

 

Have a nice botter's day.

 

As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops.

 

Slaying as a moneymaker #-o

 

please stop your embarrassing me. what is that 90k (probably more) an hour without rare drops?

I have seen a lot of threads asking if slayer is a good money maker, and plenty of responses saying YES Its amazing i made 80mil, only took me 9 months of playing. Grand total of a whooping 50k an hour.

 

Or -800k an hour with extremes, cannonballs, etc.

 

 

But if your so sure im a bot, i must have an amazing one. 6 years of playing and 0 offenses.

 

 

I don't know if you've just never slayed before in you're life, or if you're just pulling numbers out of your ass, but saying slayer is 50k an hour is complete [cabbage]. :shame:

 

This is from 35 minutes at jungle strykewyrms.

 

I don't know about you, but that looks like a bit more than 50k an hour to me. :rolleyes:

 

Certain tasks are better then others, but 230k an hour is still crap :rolleyes:

 

Ring, your answer is a lol.

 

Reason 2 is equal to reason 1. They are lazy to do it, just finding an excuse to call it repetitive. Is that a joke? If they want a skill, they should train it on their own. It's just like, if you want $, get it yourself.

 

That's how playing is like. People who cheat using bots are nearly equivalent to those who stoop down to private servers.

 

Does this change your perspective?

 

 

Yes because clicking the high alch button 100k times takes skill. Its repetitive [cabbage]. Does anyone honestly find skills like that fun? If its not fun then their not doing something right.

[/hide]

 

Sigh.... I didn't realise 35 minutes was an hour now. In reality that actually comes out to around 450k an hour, which isn't bad for training combat. But either way it still proves that you're just pulling that 50k an hour number out of nowhere. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And even if some tasks are better than others, I've still yet to find a task that only makes 50k an hour... I've yet to find a task that makes only 150k an hour. And don't say hellhounds, because its pretty obvious you don't make any money there with them only dropping charms, whoever I value charms pretty highly seeing as how skills>cashpile. (I don't include clue rewards in my hourly slayer rate).

 

You would be correct, i got my info from people posting advice on the tip.it help section of the forums. They say they made 80-100mil through leveling slayer to 99, now if you average all the hours that takes its a fairly low GP per hour rate, aslo in the same post i said 50k i also said quote "90k (or more)"

 

Also slayer is only so good now because of inflated prices on seeds and herbs. And if your slaying for maximum exp its a money drainer, but if your slaying for money theres better money making methods anyways, which is the point im trying to make

Actually if you use overloads & cannons on average tasks you indeed make around ~50k an hour..

 

It's just that without these the profit would be around ~500K an hour at average tasks..

[Sir_Kurity]

My point with that particular paragraph was that bots don't hurt low level players as much as some people argue.

 

They hurt skillers, and/or people who like to skill for money.

 

Nice job ignoring the rest of my post, though.

 

I dont have an opinion on the rest of your post, or ive already mentioned it in previous posts so its irrelevant in my case, i for one dont see the problem with that.

[Bladewing]

They only hurt people who do the repetitive tasks that bots excel at. You can skill for money in ways that bots can't because some methods of skilling are not easily bottable (e.g. superglass make).

[Racheya]

Yeah but the methods with the best money are going to be the ones that are botted... why should we settle for rubbish methods just because some kiddies are too lazy to do their own damn fishing?

[Hajutze]

They only hurt people who do the repetitive tasks that bots excel at. You can skill for money in ways that bots can't because some methods of skilling are not easily bottable (e.g. superglass make).

Worst example ever ... Give me 5 minutes and I'll make a bot for Superglass make =/ (tho .. it will be easily detectable). But generally you are right - there are tasks that are harder to bot thus give better profit for the skillers.

[Obtaurian]

My point with that particular paragraph was that bots don't hurt low level players as much as some people argue.

 

They hurt skillers, and/or people who like to skill for money.

 

Actually, they help skillers by providing cheap raw materials. People who skill for money (EG: cutting yews) are utilizing low profit and low experience methods that are pointless to use anyway, so the absence of bots isn't going to change that. Real moneymaking usually means sacrificing experience.

 

Essentially you're saying that bots hurt people who are already hurting themselves.

 

EDIT:

 

Yeah but the methods with the best money are going to be the ones that are botted... why should we settle for rubbish methods just because some kiddies are too lazy to do their own damn fishing?

 

Wrong.

[Bladewing]

Yeah but the methods with the best money are going to be the ones that are botted... why should we settle for rubbish methods just because some kiddies are too lazy to do their own damn fishing?

Fishing always sucked for money and always will, bots or no bots.

[IHasChicken]

My point with that particular paragraph was that bots don't hurt low level players as much as some people argue.

 

They hurt skillers, and/or people who like to skill for money.

 

Actually, they help skillers by providing cheap raw materials. People who skill for money (EG: cutting yews) are utilizing low profit and low experience methods that are pointless to use anyway, so the absence of bots isn't going to change that. Real moneymaking usually means sacrificing experience.

 

Essentially you're saying that bots hurt people who are already hurting themselves.

 

Exactly.

 

And the same applies for melee.

 

You can get 10k melee experience an hour bosshunting in a team for lots of cash, or get next to no money at armoured zombies or dharoking skelemonkies for little to no effort.

 

Slayer is a happy medium, which is why I love it.

[Danqazmlp]

How are people saying skilling was always bad for money? Fletching and cooking were at one time great ways to make money. Woodcutting and fishing were stable middle ground money making with slight exp, but are now way out of proportion with almost all other money making, with little exp with little profit which means bots have made the skills almost obsolete. Saying skilling was never good for making money is wrong, Mh'ing has just had its profit increased so much skilling now makes pennies compared.

[xpandax]

How are people saying skilling was always bad for money? Fletching and cooking were at one time great ways to make money. Woodcutting and fishing were stable middle ground money making with slight exp, but are now way out of proportion with almost all other money making, with little exp with little profit which means bots have made the skills almost obsolete. Saying skilling was never good for making money is wrong, Mh'ing has just had its profit increased so much skilling now makes pennies compared.

I think it's more fair to say that in the modern era of runescape (2006+), skilling has never been great money. The only skilling that really had potential for serious gp was 91+ runecrafting and 85+ mining. Until the KBD came out there was no boss to hunt and killing monsters for gp was terrible except for selling herbs. Monsters just didn't have good drops. That is when skilling reigned supreme as a cash generator... but even then with staking and pking you could make much more per hour than skilling, potentially.

[Who]

What a gross misconception that all high levels are "rich". My best of bank usually never exceeds 200M due to the fact I invest it all in skills, which, ironically as a more of a skiller, should make me money, but instead lower my total worth. Yes I have 99 Herblore. Yes I have 99 Prayer. Those are considered to be the two most expensive skills to obtain the maximum level in. Is it right to assume I'm in the mile high club then?

 

Of course not. In contrast, I have 90 Runecrafting, 95 Slayer, and 99 (102 with the amount of experience I have) Farming. I use these skills to get the money to improve my other costly skills. Not all high levels flip items or get lucky killing bosses to attain their money. Of course I tend to do the occasional monster hunting trip, not for profit, but for fun with friends.

 

This is a reason I plan on staying at 90 Attack and 135 Combat after obtaining 99 Summoning (Which I am currently raising the funds for through skilling and such). I understand how the market works, and I could easily merchant or flip items until I earned enough for this goal. But I choose not to, mainly because through skilling, I am contributing to this already messed up economy, as opposed to ruining it even further. No reason to add fuel to the fire.

 

I'll end by saying I still do Slayer in Guthans. I can't afford Bandos, and even if I could, I find no point in replacing my Guthans Set, which has the useful healing ability. Unfortunately, most people outlook this ability due to familiars and such.

[Sir_Kurity]

People who skill for money (EG: cutting yews) are utilizing low profit and low experience methods that are pointless to use anyway, so the absence of bots isn't going to change that. Real moneymaking usually means sacrificing experience.

 

And we are back to the old question, why should an already bad way of making money, be made EVEN WORSE.

 

Essentially you're saying that bots hurt people who are already hurting themselves.

 

Hurting people who like skilling for money, believe me, these people exist.

[Blutters]

People who skill for money (EG: cutting yews) are utilizing low profit and low experience methods that are pointless to use anyway, so the absence of bots isn't going to change that. Real moneymaking usually means sacrificing experience.

 

And we are back to the old question, why should an already bad way of making money, be made EVEN WORSE.

 

Essentially you're saying that bots hurt people who are already hurting themselves.

 

Hurting people who like skilling for money, believe me, these people exist.

I agree with you, Es0.

Many skills have fallen out of favor because they're simply not able to keep up with the times. This doesn't mean they should be abandoned, but rather upgraded!

 

On the second point, there would be many more of those people if the bots were dealt with.

[Obtaurian]

People who skill for money (EG: cutting yews) are utilizing low profit and low experience methods that are pointless to use anyway, so the absence of bots isn't going to change that. Real moneymaking usually means sacrificing experience.

 

And we are back to the old question, why should an already bad way of making money, be made EVEN WORSE.

 

So what you're saying is that little Timmy should be able to cut yews to afford his Bandos Godsword (godswords pwn) for 100 hours rather than 103, correct? The absence of bots would not revitalized dead moneymaking methods. Timmy should cut ivy for woodcutting experience and make black d'leather or something for his BGS. It's not that I don't want little Timmy to get his BGS, I just don't think that bots are affecting his ability to get one as much as you'd like to think.

 

There's simply NO reason to utilize BAD moneymaking methods, so why should it matter if they're made worse?

 

Hurting people who like skilling for money, believe me, these people exist.

 

I know they exist. I'm sure there are people who solo the Chaos Elemental for melee experience, too, but you don't see me sticking up for them. Once again, bots hurt people who are already hurting themselves. This isn't always the case, as I've explained, but in most instances it is.

 

EDIT

 

I agree with you, Es0.

Many skills have fallen out of favor because they're simply not able to keep up with the times. This doesn't mean they should be abandoned, but rather upgraded!

 

Exactly. The solution is not to make cutting yews easier, but to introduce new and creative ways to make money and gain experience. I would argue, however, that skillers are able to make enough money to sustain themselves as it is, but I'm certainly not opposed to them making a little bit more at extremely high levels.

[SixFootOne]

The problem for some people who rely on gathering skills for money is they simply don't know or understand other methods of money making. I don't know how many countless times i have seen people in the fishing guild begging for a new source of income. Then of course there are the people who are too lazy to utilize the known better methods, but there is no excuse for them.

 

Just because these may not be the most efficient methods, i don't think botting and the effects on these should be overlooked. But i do agree with people saying there should be other more creative options for these skills. I think the living rock caverns was a great step in the right direction.

 

Personally i have made over 600mil from fishing alone. And if do a skill with such low income you understand what the trade off is. These methods are lazy methods. You can play other games, watch tv, watch movies, browse the forums, play at work or school, or just chat while earning money. It may not be fast, but there is almost no effort involved. And with all the media and entertainment options we have available it makes these lazy methods popular.

[Sir_Kurity]

So what you're saying is that little Timmy should be able to cut yews to afford his Bandos Godsword (godswords pwn) for 100 hours rather than 103, correct? The absence of bots would not revitalized dead moneymaking methods. Timmy should cut ivy for woodcutting experience and make black d'leather or something for his BGS. It's not that I don't want little Timmy to get his BGS, I just don't think that bots are affecting his ability to get one as much as you'd like to think.

 

No, im saying that an already inferior way of making money should not be further devalued by the vast abundance of bots.

 

There's simply NO reason to utilize BAD moneymaking methods, so why should it matter if they're made worse?

 

Why isnt there a reason? Some of these skills are simply more relaxing than doing things like monster hunting, some people cannot monster hunt as effectively for reasons of there own (like having 1 defence :D), or skilling might simply be the best way of making money for them while also getting decent XP.

 

And why wouldnt it matter? If its such a bad money maker isnt it a slight indication that it should be improved somewhat, by either new updates, and/or the removal of bots?

 

I know they exist. I'm sure there are people who solo the Chaos Elemental for melee experience, too, but you don't see me sticking up for them. Once again, bots hurt people who are already hurting themselves. This isn't always the case, as I've explained, but in most instances it is.

 

Bots hurt the people who like skilling for money.

 

Cutting yews is not me "hurting myself", its me getting money in a relatively relaxing way while also training magic at the same time, and yes i do believe i should get a bit more money for skilling, especially given how much the profit for monster hunting has shot up.

 

Not to mention that yews actually are one of the primary ways to make money in f2p.