An Intelligent Perspective On Botters

[Sir_Kurity]

I fully agree that high levels should get more money.

 

I dont agree that bots should drive the prices of raw materials down to the point where skilling is crap house money.

[Danqazmlp]

I fully agree that high levels should get more money.

 

I dont agree that bots should drive the prices of raw materials down to the point where skilling is crap house money.

 

 

Exactly. Skillers shouldn't make more than Mh's, but they also shouldn't make such low amounts. The prices of raw materials and the such have been driven to unnaturally low prices due to bots. That is a fact. Without them, the prices would naturally flow and ebb with the community which would alternate between skilling and mh'ing for money as the prices fluctuated. With bots however, prices cannot fluctuate as they are supposed to which keeps the profits made from skilling a pittance compared to other methods.

 

 

I can see no argument against getting rid of the bots apart from selfish reasons as follow;

 

• 
   
  
• Higher level players want cheaper resources
  
• Higher level players want their money making to make so much more than others
  
• Higher levels don't want others to make money
  

 

 

 

To cowboy14: Please for the love of god stop quoting peoples levels as a reason to diminish their opinion. You don't need to have a level to know what comes with it.

[Zaaps1]

Farming averages higher than any form of boss hunting if you look at the total effort spent in each.

 

Runite mining is decent as well, and with prices as high as they are I find myself averaging upwards of 6-700k/hr.

 

Runecrafting is as good as ever since now you can get double runes at earlier levels. Double deaths, I hear, are amazing.

 

Skilling does make good money, no where near combat, but it can still be good money. There was a statement that said you needed 50 hours of preparation for boss hunting in order to get all the supplies. It takes a handful of hours to get a high farming level, and mining granite gets you 85 mining in about 50 hours, give or take a few. Of course, you would want to switch to LRC after 77/80, so that would add a little time but make enough profit to compensate.

[Danqazmlp]

Farming averages higher than any form of boss hunting if you look at the total effort spent in each.

 

Runite mining is decent as well, and with prices as high as they are I find myself averaging upwards of 6-700k/hr.

 

Runecrafting is as good as ever since now you can get double runes at earlier levels. Double deaths, I hear, are amazing.

 

Skilling does make good money, no where near combat, but it can still be good money. There was a statement that said you needed 50 hours of preparation for boss hunting in order to get all the supplies. It takes a handful of hours to get a high farming level, and mining granite gets you 85 mining in about 50 hours, give or take a few. Of course, you would want to switch to LRC after 77/80, so that would add a little time but make enough profit to compensate.

 

 

It may take less with grinding, but I think I can safely say your average scaper will take longer to get 85 mining, high rc or high farming than it takes them to get higher combat levels.

[Omali]

First they started botting yews. I did not care because it gave me a cheap 99 fletching/firemaking.

Then they started botting green dragons. I did not care because it gave me a cheap 99 prayer/crafting.

Then they started botting barrows. I did not care because they gave me cheap barrows equipment/runes.

Then they started botting my boss spots, and there was no one around to care because I already made myself out as a selfish [puncture].

[langer]

@ Omali

 

Very good use of those lines. Perfect analogy.

[Greedy]

The merchant clans control the prices of high level gear, discontinued items, potions, raw materials. Clans with over 500B to work with can control every segment of the market, that's the real poison in this game. Why do players want over 10 billion cash? I don't need that amount of cash, but i can imagine some professional RWTers want that. These professional merchanters should get penalised, by for example only trading with GE and no intergalactic streetprices.

 

High level monster hunters just get their profit from merchanters with an everlasting demand of spirit shields, godswords, 3rd age gear, etc. They get richer with these clans in game. The skillers get affected by the prices of raw materials (popular botting segment), their economic graphic is pointing neutral or in comparison with monsters hunters downwards.

[Zaaps1]

Farming averages higher than any form of boss hunting if you look at the total effort spent in each.

 

Runite mining is decent as well, and with prices as high as they are I find myself averaging upwards of 6-700k/hr.

 

Runecrafting is as good as ever since now you can get double runes at earlier levels. Double deaths, I hear, are amazing.

 

Skilling does make good money, no where near combat, but it can still be good money. There was a statement that said you needed 50 hours of preparation for boss hunting in order to get all the supplies. It takes a handful of hours to get a high farming level, and mining granite gets you 85 mining in about 50 hours, give or take a few. Of course, you would want to switch to LRC after 77/80, so that would add a little time but make enough profit to compensate.

 

 

It may take less with grinding, but I think I can safely say your average scaper will take longer to get 85 mining, high rc or high farming than it takes them to get higher combat levels.

 

 

Would you not have to grind to get the combat levels/money for equipment as well?

[Bier]

Some reasons why I think youre wrong:

 

1. Botting might benefit me in some ways since some things gets cheaper, but it benefits those who are using the bots far more than it benefits me

2. Even though it might give me some small benefits it gives me disadvantages in that we get more crowded spots and I make less money using some skills.

3. Lastly the game is already easy enough; it doesnt need to become easier because theres a flood of raw materials.

[SirHartlar]

I don't remember a time when skilling was ever that profitable anyway. Runecrafting double natures was once the pinnacle of making money, but that was limited to a small number of people. Cutting yews has never been that profitable in all the time I have been playing RS, neither has mining anything other than runite or fishing for that matter. Combat has always been the way to go for making money, I don't see why that should change just because bots are making skilling even less profitable.

[Danqazmlp]

I don't remember a time when skilling was ever that profitable anyway. Runecrafting double natures was once the pinnacle of making money, but that was limited to a small number of people. Cutting yews has never been that profitable in all the time I have been playing RS, neither has mining anything other than runite or fishing for that matter. Combat has always been the way to go for making money, I don't see why that should change just because bots are making skilling even less profitable.

 

It isn't that it is worse, it is that it is getting progressively worse. Since GWD, getting drops worth 30m+ is commonplace. the amount of time it takes a skiller to get that much money is way out of proportion.

 

The main problem then is that the proportion money making due to MH'ing has grown far far far outweighs the money making through skilling has grown.

[svs]

I can't believe people even dare to make a topic like this.

Might as well just say that Hitler was a nessessary evil, the outcome is the same if you catch my drift.

 

 

-Bots take up space, space is bandwidth, bandwidth costs money, not enough space results in lag.

 

-Dealing with bots takes time, time costs money and you can guess twice where that money comes from, from our membership payments.

 

-The money time and energy they spend on dealing with bots could be spend on updates or lowering the membrship costs even further down, that is if there were no bots to deal with...

 

-Botting may alter the game script and i have no idea where that might lead to but it's certainly not something good.

 

-Bots lower the prices of many "cheap" items, therefore people gathering the same items them bots gather, are making less and less and less and less money.

And those who do not gather, but only buy those materials get them cheaper yes but it still doesn't change how much money those people make actually, because they're not making any money that they already have.

 

-What most of you didn't realise is that the cost on some high level items are inflated because of bots, not all bots are lv 3 skillers, there's actually a big part of them who want some fancy armor or weaponry but cba to get it themselves so they bot, i've seen lv 130's+ bot, i always wonder why. Because of that, there's always enough demand and always enough people who got enough money to buy those items.

I bet if there were no bots tommorow, if everyone got their money in a fair way than those high level expensive items will surely drop in price.

So in the end, everyone looses from bots, even bots.

[xpandax]

OP is correct about raw material prices, however, those ge graphs are incorrect. The bots AREN'T down for "days" after an update. The bot clients are usually fixed within 7-8 hours of an update, on update days i make a boatload of cash killing green drags while the bots are down so i keep a tab open on some cheat sites so I know when the bot clients get updated and when the inevitable crowd of silent slayas start showing up I know it's time to move on. The longest I can remember the client being down was 2 days when dungeoneering came out because jagex did like 4-5 system updates the day of and the days after releasing dungeoneering... but that's highly unusual.

[SirHartlar]

I don't remember a time when skilling was ever that profitable anyway. Runecrafting double natures was once the pinnacle of making money, but that was limited to a small number of people. Cutting yews has never been that profitable in all the time I have been playing RS, neither has mining anything other than runite or fishing for that matter. Combat has always been the way to go for making money, I don't see why that should change just because bots are making skilling even less profitable.

 

It isn't that it is worse, it is that it is getting progressively worse. Since GWD, getting drops worth 30m+ is commonplace. the amount of time it takes a skiller to get that much money is way out of proportion.

 

The main problem then is that the proportion money making due to MH'ing has grown far far far outweighs the money making through skilling has grown.

 

It isn't solely down to botting though, the introduction of the GE has had a large impact on the effectiveness of skilling as a moneymaker. The whole economy seems to be in a pretty dire state when you consider the merchant clans that can buy out an item if they feel like it, getting rid of bots won't solve many of the problems we have ingame right now (although it's a step in the right direction).

[Danqazmlp]

I don't remember a time when skilling was ever that profitable anyway. Runecrafting double natures was once the pinnacle of making money, but that was limited to a small number of people. Cutting yews has never been that profitable in all the time I have been playing RS, neither has mining anything other than runite or fishing for that matter. Combat has always been the way to go for making money, I don't see why that should change just because bots are making skilling even less profitable.

 

It isn't that it is worse, it is that it is getting progressively worse. Since GWD, getting drops worth 30m+ is commonplace. the amount of time it takes a skiller to get that much money is way out of proportion.

 

The main problem then is that the proportion money making due to MH'ing has grown far far far outweighs the money making through skilling has grown.

 

It isn't solely down to botting though, the introduction of the GE has had a large impact on the effectiveness of skilling as a moneymaker. The whole economy seems to be in a pretty dire state when you consider the merchant clans that can buy out an item if they feel like it, getting rid of bots won't solve many of the problems we have ingame right now (although it's a step in the right direction).

 

 

Surely though the graphs on the first page show the large effect that bots are having on the prices. I can't imagine any other single thing having such a large effect.

[langer]

Just spent my lunch hour at varrock catching pure ess botters....

 

There must have been at least 20-30 running from the shop to the bank, managed to "teleblock-other" nearly 10 and locked some of them in the house northwest of the shop.

 

Pure essence runners are hurting me everytime I kill a monster that drops pure essence. Jagex should make a clear statement on botting once and for all. If they can't catch macroers or think that it's not that bad anymore, they should do it publicly and it could level the playing field. Now everyone could bot freely and this game of cat and mouse would be over.

 

I'm all for new randoms and harsher punishments if it helps get rid of bots.

[SirHartlar]

I don't remember a time when skilling was ever that profitable anyway. Runecrafting double natures was once the pinnacle of making money, but that was limited to a small number of people. Cutting yews has never been that profitable in all the time I have been playing RS, neither has mining anything other than runite or fishing for that matter. Combat has always been the way to go for making money, I don't see why that should change just because bots are making skilling even less profitable.

 

It isn't that it is worse, it is that it is getting progressively worse. Since GWD, getting drops worth 30m+ is commonplace. the amount of time it takes a skiller to get that much money is way out of proportion.

 

The main problem then is that the proportion money making due to MH'ing has grown far far far outweighs the money making through skilling has grown.

 

It isn't solely down to botting though, the introduction of the GE has had a large impact on the effectiveness of skilling as a moneymaker. The whole economy seems to be in a pretty dire state when you consider the merchant clans that can buy out an item if they feel like it, getting rid of bots won't solve many of the problems we have ingame right now (although it's a step in the right direction).

 

 

Surely though the graphs on the first page show the large effect that bots are having on the prices. I can't imagine any other single thing having such a large effect.

 

I guess the problem is bigger than I previously thought. Looking at some of the pictures of CT green dragons and the amount of botters there highlights your point.

[Owned_Nex]

I personally like bots, they give me the resources I need to buy skills or items I need.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I adamantly disagree with the beneficial effects of bots. Where do I start...

 

First things first, it's actually plain to see that there is a mammoth divide between what skillers, PKers and monster hunters make. Between the three of them, you're going to have substantially better odds of profiting big time at Armadyl GWD or the Corporeal than if you worked your way to 91 RC. After all, it only takes one hilt/sigil. When you add botters to the mix, things like PKing and monster hunting look a helluva lot more intriguing, so we could continue to progress our characters and have our style of fun.

 

If you're saying that they benefit the market by making an infinite good more widely available, then that speaks of inexcusable laziness on the part of players that bot, and the need to make some resources slightly more convenient for normal players to perform. Not to mention, lower prices for these kinds of goods really hurts the skillers that use this exclusively to make money. I'll take your canonical example of Red Chinchompas - to this very day, I burn with fury at the thought of competing with bots for the same resources. Aren't I entitled to hunt them just as much as some damn program?!

 

It's just sloth. Botters bring prices down for those that don't want to gather on their own, while killing the game we like to play. You may think it's a good thing for the economy now - but, speaking for myself, I can't freaking stand it.

[stonewall337]

And I make ~4.5m gp/hr at DKS. Why shouldn't I? I spent hundred of hours, and over 1b on my gear and stats. If you want to make that kind of money, train up. Hell, I've trained attack more then DOUBLE the amount you've trained ALL your skills. And yet you tell me I shouldn't make good cash?

 

I never said you shouldnt make good cash, merely that skilling needs an improvement.

 

~150k an hour is simply not comparable to how much you can get hunting monsters. Infact im a pure, and i still make much more money hunting dragons than i do skilling.

 

And a lot of this is because of bots, if they were removed, the prices of raw materials would rise, meaning skilling would make better money. We all know it still wouldnt be comparable to monster hunting, but at least its an improvement on the current (crap), rates.

 

Isnt it a bit selfish to want bots to stay just so you can hunt monsters easier?

No because I have all the levels I need and am almost 100% self sufficient except for fish if I'm pking.

[Sir_Kurity]

No because I have all the levels I need and am almost 100% self sufficient except for fish if I'm pking.

 

So, why are you opposed to bots being removed (and by extention), the cost of raw materials rising?

[stonewall337]

No because I have all the levels I need and am almost 100% self sufficient except for fish if I'm pking.

 

So, why are you opposed to bots being removed (and by extention), the cost of raw materials rising?

I never said that. I said that I don't see them being as big a problem as they are proported to be, since Monster hunting should be a better method to make cash anyways.

[Racheya]

No because I have all the levels I need and am almost 100% self sufficient except for fish if I'm pking.

 

So, why are you opposed to bots being removed (and by extention), the cost of raw materials rising?

I never said that. I said that I don't see them being as big a problem as they are proported to be, since Monster hunting should be a better method to make cash anyways.

Why should it? Why is someone who raised their attack level high more deserving of someone who raised their fishing or mining?

[Aiel]

because, at least for the moment, there is NO RISK involved in skilling. You click, you switch to hulu, wait a few minutes, switch back click again. Also, the stats for monster hunting take MUCH longer to get then the stats for skilling. 70+ prayer 85+ range, mage, and melees, and 69+ summoning are the bare minimums for MHing effectively imo, vs what? 85 mining? mining is slightly slower then cb, but not that much slower.

[Nero]

Wait a second, didn't they remove the wilderness, get rid of free trading, set up the centralized Grand Exchange, and do a bunch of other crap that neutered the second M in MMO in order to get rid of the bots?

 

And they're still there? :-X