An Intelligent Perspective On Botters

[stonewall337]

No because I have all the levels I need and am almost 100% self sufficient except for fish if I'm pking.

 

So, why are you opposed to bots being removed (and by extention), the cost of raw materials rising?

I never said that. I said that I don't see them being as big a problem as they are proported to be, since Monster hunting should be a better method to make cash anyways.

Why should it? Why is someone who raised their attack level high more deserving of someone who raised their fishing or mining?

Yes. Do I need to restate what I said? Its not just the attack level.

 

No. MH should be FAR more profitable for numerous reasons:

 

1.) Time spent getting high enough skills to MH efficiently.

 

2.) Money spent on gear to MH well.

 

3.) Money spent on skills such as prayer/herb to MH well.

 

4.) Risk. There is always risk. I've been at GWD where the whole world lagged out, and everyone in the boss room died before.

 

5.) Input. I don't know any boss which is easier to AFK then fishing/mining/wcing.

 

6.) Time. Most bosses take preparation time, and time commitment then any skilling money maker, unless perhaps herb runs. However, herb runs are profitable already, and aren't a part of this discussion.

 

7.) Cost. Even though there are averages, dry streaks still occur, and one needs cash to cover supplies.

 

There are more, but I think I made my point.

 

Also, if you skill, why do you need as much money? Most gear is for killing things anyways, and unless you are looking at aesthetic items such as party hats and certain TT items, you shouldn't need as much cash.

 

And I make ~4.5m gp/hr at DKS. Why shouldn't I? I spent hundred of hours, and over 1b on my gear and stats. If you want to make that kind of money, train up. Hell, I've trained attack more then DOUBLE the amount you've trained ALL your skills. And yet you tell me I shouldn't make good cash?

 

If I have a better education then you IRL man, I'm probably going to be making far more then you.

 

 

 

When skillers spend 50m, 25m, or even 500m on an item to help them make money more efficiently, or task some risk skilling, then I'd support it being more profitable.

 

So essentially Racheya, yes. I spend 100 grand on my college education, and six years, and you only finish high school. You may have worked to finish High School just as hard as I did to finish college. However, I still spent more time, more money, and took more risk, needing to find a job. (Far easier to get a job at burger king then it is to find an advanced job in most instances.)

 

If I mess up in my current job, not only am I facing termination, but also MASSIVE fines (up to $10,000 a day) and a jail term of several years, courtesy of the FCC. If you mess up at the library, wal-mart, or the gas station, you get fired.

[Danqazmlp]

So what if I spend just as much time getting 99 wc, 99 fishing and 99 hunting, should I then be able to make the same money as Mh'ing? you can make much more money than skilling at much lower levels too. You may have x high levels, but at lower levels you can still make more than skilling.

 

The time spent to make more than a skiller isn't as large as people seem to assume. Your average scaper will also train combat skills before skills as well, which means they will probably have fairly high combat skills before they even think of mainly getting money.

[stonewall337]

So what if I spend just as much time getting 99 wc, 99 fishing and 99 hunting, should I then be able to make the same money as Mh'ing? you can make much more money than skilling at much lower levels too. You may have x high levels, but at lower levels you can still make more than skilling.

 

The time spent to make more than a skiller isn't as large as people seem to assume. Your average scaper will also train combat skills before skills as well, which means they will probably have fairly high combat skills before they even think of mainly getting money.

You didn't answer any of my other reasons. Do that first. In fact, you probably make just as much getting to 99 hunter as I would getting 99 attack at Az's, probably more.

[Danqazmlp]

So what if I spend just as much time getting 99 wc, 99 fishing and 99 hunting, should I then be able to make the same money as Mh'ing? you can make much more money than skilling at much lower levels too. You may have x high levels, but at lower levels you can still make more than skilling.

 

The time spent to make more than a skiller isn't as large as people seem to assume. Your average scaper will also train combat skills before skills as well, which means they will probably have fairly high combat skills before they even think of mainly getting money.

You didn't answer any of my other reasons. Do that first. In fact, you probably make just as much getting to 99 hunter as I would getting 99 attack at Az's, probably more.

 

 

Your reasons are legitimate reasons why Mhing should make more money. It isn't however a reason as to why Mh'ing profit has risen over tenfold in the last few years, yet skilling has not risen any significant amount, and is now becoming even harder due to the bots mentioned in this thread. It is just totally out of proportion.

 

Mhing has also imo gotten less risky due to graves, which is a small but still goes against the massive rise in profits made.

[Saru Inc]

Farming averages higher than any form of boss hunting if you look at the total effort spent in each.

 

Runite mining is decent as well, and with prices as high as they are I find myself averaging upwards of 6-700k/hr.

 

Runecrafting is as good as ever since now you can get double runes at earlier levels. Double deaths, I hear, are amazing.

 

Skilling does make good money, no where near combat, but it can still be good money. There was a statement that said you needed 50 hours of preparation for boss hunting in order to get all the supplies. It takes a handful of hours to get a high farming level, and mining granite gets you 85 mining in about 50 hours, give or take a few. Of course, you would want to switch to LRC after 77/80, so that would add a little time but make enough profit to compensate.

 

Where do *you* rune mine. it's not 6-700k an hour for me, more like 300k or so. Idk why I even do lol'd.

 

 

And Omali you copied that post idea from one i saw like two months ago. It was on a different forum, but i said it so im correct. Thus you are not original. Why even post =\ we all know you use a macro program to make your posts.

[langer]

Well I had a blast of fun... and since this is a game... i'll let you figure out by yourself, you seem able enough.

[demby123]

Farming averages higher than any form of boss hunting if you look at the total effort spent in each.

 

Runite mining is decent as well, and with prices as high as they are I find myself averaging upwards of 6-700k/hr.

 

Runecrafting is as good as ever since now you can get double runes at earlier levels. Double deaths, I hear, are amazing.

 

Skilling does make good money, no where near combat, but it can still be good money. There was a statement that said you needed 50 hours of preparation for boss hunting in order to get all the supplies. It takes a handful of hours to get a high farming level, and mining granite gets you 85 mining in about 50 hours, give or take a few. Of course, you would want to switch to LRC after 77/80, so that would add a little time but make enough profit to compensate.

 

Where do *you* rune mine. it's not 6-700k an hour for me, more like 300k or so. Idk why I even do lol'd.

 

 

And Omali you copied that post idea from one i saw like two months ago. It was on a different forum, but i said it so im correct. Thus you are not original. Why even post =\ we all know you use a macro program to make your posts.

I don't know what runite ore prices are now, but back when I used to mine runite I'd get 300k/hour from niet, 500-600k at the wilderness mine and up to 800k using the double mining ability from shooting stars.

 

I think runite ore was around 15k each back then.

[Omali]

And Omali you copied that post idea from one i saw like two months ago. It was on a different forum, but i said it so im correct. Thus you are not original. Why even post =\ we all know you use a macro program to make your posts.

 

It's called an homage.

 

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

 

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

 

THEN THEY CAME for me

and by that time no one was left to speak up."

[Glove]

I can make money because I have high skills, that's true. I also put in the time and effort to attain those high skills, that's also true.

 

But I don't think bots lowering the profit threshold on gathering skills is good for anyone. Yes, it makes it easier and cheaper to buy resources for manufacturing skills... but it ultimately only increases the cost of highly sought after skills. The money 'saved' from buying cheaper resources that bots provide ends up driving up prices on more desired resources for other skills, like herbs for herblore and bones for prayer. Yeah, you save money on 99 fletching, but you're going to feel it when you go for 99 prayer. I'm not arguing that herblore and prayer wouldn't always cost more than other manufacturing skills; they would, they're perceived as far more useful in daily play than smithing or fletching or cooking. What I'm arguing is that any money that isn't being redistributed towards the lesser gathering skills is being funneled into higher end or more desired items, driving up their prices. So you save money in some areas, but end up losing money in others. This skewing of things is bad for the game because it kills diversity and diversity of experience and playing style is what has allowed a community to grow around the game and ultimately let the game thrive.

 

I'm not saying bots are going to kill Runescape dead, but they have a bigger impact on the game than just the gp bottom line. There are aspects to this that cannot be measured in dollars and cents that are much harder to foster than a brimming bank account.

[Saru Inc]

And Omali you copied that post idea from one i saw like two months ago. It was on a different forum, but i said it so im correct. Thus you are not original. Why even post =\ we all know you use a macro program to make your posts.

 

It's called an homage.

 

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

 

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

 

THEN THEY CAME for me

and by that time no one was left to speak up."

 

 

Dude I was being sarcastic. <.<

 

And no I meant someone else used that for a different analogy. Never mind.

 

 

I mean people who hunt botters are like people who pick flax and string it.

[My_Eggs]

Hate to break it to you Svaac but thats how ALL games go. The higher lvl you are, the more money you make. Thats why the prices for our armor is so much mroe expensive then the lower levels.

 

 

We make 3-4mil an hour from boss hunting? Lets not forget about the time it takes to assemble a team, get kc, and buy the supplies to go with. So that brings us down to more like 2m an hour. Here goes the numbers:

 

 

2m an hour... so that means

 

-23.5m for bandos top

-25mil for bandos tassets

-4mil for Abby Whip

-500k for dragon boots

-14m for fury

-30m for dragonfire shield, or 70m+ for those spirit shields

 

Total: 100m for the whole "set" of armor for us. that will take us about 50 hours to collect the money for

 

 

Now lets look at the lower levels:

 

-You can make 500k an hour picking mort myre fungus (little reqs)

-If your a skiller with 91 hunter you can do puro puro for 1.5m+ and hour from kinglys and dragon imps

-Mining coal makes you... 30k an hour? (i dont honestly know)

-Flax makes 100k an hour

-Vial filling makes 100k an hour

-Cutting granite makes 150k an hour (but nobody does this cause its annoying, thats why botters are good here)

-Mining rune makes about 300k an hour

*Herblore has ALWAYS been a black whole and never good for $$

*Woodcutting has ALWAYS been a joke, nobody is going to reward you with a high GP p/hr with 80 wc BECAUSE IT TAKES LITTLE TO NO TIME TO ACHIEVE.

 

Your full rune costs 250k, full sara/rune costs around 6m-7m. That would take you about 50 hours making 100k an hour to get enough $$ for it.

 

The only skill i feel for is fishing to be honest. i do feel like raw fish should be a little higher...

 

 

 

 

 

 

In WoW, lower level players are happy to make a couple gold coins, while the high players need thousands of gold coins to get their armour, mounts, etc. You dont see their low level playing complaining about it because they realize their armor is less hard to get, and its less powerful then that of the higher players.

 

What makes you think that because i have low combat stats i wear full rune? Fyi, i wear RED BLESSED D HIDE most of the time, something i only see lvl 80-100+ people with. For a lvl 71 person who makes all of their money off skilling, I'm pretty rich. It's all about perspective. But come on, 500 gp (based on what you said) per SECOND? that means that in the time it takes me to write this, you have made almost 150k. Yet, I, a lvl 71 with fair stats, would have made maybe 10k. Like Danqazmlp said, why should skillers stay poor, when monster hunters have made tenfold the money that they used to? Technically, we own you. If every skiller decided to stop making potions, for example, then it wouldn't be long before the potions price would soar due to the only income being drops, and you would be forced to either skill or else monster hunting wouldn't work. You are at the skiller's will. We can stop making food, stop pots, stop bow and arrow and bolt production, stop rune production, and you would be screwed. That simple. Of course, this is all hypothetical.

 

You own us? I fail to see how you have any effect on my overloads.... That tends to be what high levels use for potions. :wink: And if you think that stopping making the super pots will screw us over, I don't think you realize how many herb drops we get. As for runes, I don't see every single person stopping a skill that can net them 200m+ easily. Food? It's called sara brews, and again, don't under estimate our herb drops. Bolts are really only used in a few boss hunting spots, and most high levels have a stock of those sort of things so that they don't have to run to the G.E. between every trip. Trust me, we wouldn't quite be screwed. Any good monster hunter has a good stock pile in his bank. And besides, if you guys stopped skilling, wheres your money going to come from? God knows you won't be boss hunting. :rolleyes:

[Central_Keeper]

First they started botting yews. I did not care because it gave me a cheap 99 fletching/firemaking.

Then they started botting green dragons. I did not care because it gave me a cheap 99 prayer/crafting.

Then they started botting barrows. I did not care because they gave me cheap barrows equipment/runes.

Then they started botting my boss spots, and there was no one around to care because I already made myself out as a selfish [puncture].

 

Botting yew, I cared because that's one of my main source of income, and compete with tons of them isn't fun.

Green Dragons, well, I am F2p, so not really sure if it affects other except pkers.

Botting barrows, wow, I didn't know they can do that.

Boss spots, man, we are so beyond raw materials gathering simple minded bots now

 

I remember someone mentioned they can bot dungeoneering soon, thought of it was a joke, but it might seem to be a reality soon.

[Sir_Kurity]

I never said that. I said that I don't see them being as big a problem as they are proported to be, since Monster hunting should be a better method to make cash anyways.

 

So, you dont see them as a problem because monster hunting should be better than skilling?

 

Yes, they are a problem. Just because your not effected by it doesnt mean you should not care and consider it not to be a problem, thats an incredibly selfish outlook on botters.

 

Let me tell you something, bots or not, skilling will NEVER be better than monster hunting. But bots need to be removed so that skilling is actually a viable way of getting money.

 

While i acknowledge that monster hunters should get more money than skillers, simply because it is generally harder and there is more risk involved. It should not be as disproportionate as it is now. Where monster hunters can get millions from a single lucky drop, while skillers are stuck at a subpar 100k an hour.

[Central_Keeper]

I personally like bots, they give me the resources I need to buy skills or items I need.

 

 

Mentality like that is one of the main reasons why bots are still around. You will start the feel the effect of it, once they start botting the resources you gathering. I have seen several bots with high ranks and taking up high score list too.

 

For the most part, its directly breaking the rules, even though this is a game, we need rules to function as a whole, or the whole order will crumble (I would say its starting to, others might say its already started, and some amount would say its already ruined)

[Lugia_Lvl138]

My feelings after reading the 5 pages:

 

Yes, I think skilling should make more money, I made a thread recently on that very subject. But Stonewall already pointed out why MHing is riskier and should be rewarded more. And I'm not terribly scared of a "138 Turmoil, Overload, Yak bot" at Bandos. Bandos LS worlds are already packed like 24/7, so a few solo bots wouldn't do much to the price. In fact, I could see myself having some fun crashing them and forcing them to tank. If a worst case scenario happens and all GWD items crash, I can always do TDs/Dks or fall back on one of my skills like 91 RC, which I got primarily for a backup if said worst case scenario happens. But on that line of thought, where are RC bots? Abyssal Demon bots? Spirit Mage bots? TD bots? DK bots? etc. Not really scared of any of those though, as I have a bank worth about 2.9b

[Central_Keeper]

Yes. Do I need to restate what I said? Its not just the attack level.

 

No. MH should be FAR more profitable for numerous reasons:

Not everyone like to do monster hunting, and they might not be as efficient as you are.

 

4.) Risk. There is always risk. I've been at GWD where the whole world lagged out, and everyone in the boss room died before.

Higher risk tasks do equal to higher pay outs, but players would have to have a lot of experience before they can make profits to your level

 

5.) Input. I don't know any boss which is easier to AFK then fishing/mining/wcing.

 

Fishing and woodcutting is quite easy that's for sure, but you would still need to run back and forth to bank them, unless you are botting. I don't even know how you can afk with mining, I think its one of the attention demanding skill out there because you have to click on them rocks individually.

 

Also, if you skill, why do you need as much money? Most gear is for killing things anyways, and unless you are looking at aesthetic items such as party hats and certain TT items, you shouldn't need as much cash.

 

Eh, huge come back for me on this one, I think I am a skiller, but I also train all my melee to stat 99 as well. I think I need 500 mil gp now for prayer 99, as the bones keep on going up. Also, I need large amount of cash to buy 2.5mil essence to get RC 99 (Hopefully, the money from air runes will relief alot of those 500mil debt)

 

And I make ~4.5m gp/hr at DKS. Why shouldn't I? I spent hundred of hours, and over 1b on my gear and stats. If you want to make that kind of money, train up. Hell, I've trained attack more then DOUBLE the amount you've trained ALL your skills. And yet you tell me I shouldn't make good cash?

This I won't argue, you do have to work hard and train hard for the skill you currently have.

 

If I have a better education then you IRL man, I'm probably going to be making far more then you.

So essentially Racheya, yes. I spend 100 grand on my college education, and six years, and you only finish high school. You may have worked to finish High School just as hard as I did to finish college. However, I still spent more time, more money, and took more risk, needing to find a job. (Far easier to get a job at burger king then it is to find an advanced job in most instances.)

If I mess up in my current job, not only am I facing termination, but also MASSIVE fines (up to $10,000 a day) and a jail term of several years, courtesy of the FCC. If you mess up at the library, wal-mart, or the gas station, you get fired.

 

I don't think you can drag real life into this one, well, its hard to compare. I spend 4 years in uni, and roughly 30k on the overall tuition, books, gas money, etc etc (wait, how did you hit 100K? Did you went Harvard or something). I have friends who didn't went to university but went to colleges instead and finish it in 2 years and half and make better money than I do by fixing cars (and opening other joint locations as co owners). Higher education doesn't mean you will get a good job, its your experience, determination, networking, and a bit of luck. I know people who finishes uni end up going back to colleges because the stuff they learn is all theoretical and not practical. Besides, its really hard to mess up a job unless you are not doing anything at all, hence neglecting your responsibility. If I messed up my job (doing something totally unethical and cause bodily or psychological damage, I could get sued for 1 to 5milion per case load, and that's in US dollars too, and that's why I need to buy professional liability and commercial general liability insurance) The funny thing is, my job doesn't even pay that much for the risk that it takes (again, if you really don't care about anything and just fooling around). Lastly, even money from Library (by the way, they are union supported, regular staff do earn quite ALOT), Wal mart, or gas station do mean something because they would help out pay for mortgages and other necessity, and its a horrible set back that could lead bankruptcy if you don't pay your bills or debt on time, like get fired for instance.

 

In the end, not trying to go against you or anything, but just goes to show that everyone's opinion and circumstances is different, its hard to use your own standard and place it on other, the world simply doesn't work that way.

[nubbycubby]

we all know you use a macro program to make your posts.

 

Forum botting? This made me lol irl.

[ArtemisCatal]

I figured out what the logic behind this thread is.

 

Botting helps rich monster hunters by keeping their supplies cheap, so botting is good.

 

Botting hurts skillers, but they are the poor and stupid because they are not monster hunters, so it doesn’t matter.

 

I get it. You much be a monster hunter right! You realize you are avocating stealing from the poor because they are poor?

[Central_Keeper]

I figured out what the logic behind this thread is.

 

Botting helps rich monster hunters by keeping their supplies cheap, so botting is good.

 

Botting hurts skillers, but they are the poor and stupid because they are not monster hunters, so it doesnt matter.

 

I get it. You much be a monster hunter right! You realize you are avocating stealing from the poor because they are poor?

 

 

For some odd, however weird, twisted reason, that statement is vile yet true (to a certain point, exclude the part about skiller being poor and stupid because some can channel their dedication into other field such as merchanting)

[rsp]

I am wondering why this thread has not been closed yet, it can't be that tip.it moderators haven't seen it...

 

Discussions that try to convince others of the usefulness of an illegal activity do not belong on tip.it!

 

Close please.

[pulli23]

I am wondering why this thread has not been closed yet, it can't be that tip.it moderators haven't seen it...

 

Discussions that try to convince others of the usefulness of an illegal activity do not belong on tip.it!

 

Close please.

You now really sound like a scared person who can't think as an individual being: "help there happens something others said it isn't good, now we have to believe them".

[Brodly]

Your reasons are legitimate reasons why Mhing should make more money. It isn't however a reason as to why Mh'ing profit has risen over tenfold in the last few years, yet skilling has not risen any significant amount, and is now becoming even harder due to the bots mentioned in this thread. It is just totally out of proportion.

 

Mhing has also imo gotten less risky due to graves, which is a small but still goes against the massive rise in profits made.

 

Now, I'm not sure if you know but these bots have been around since before the december 2007 updates. Just because suddenly it is a fad to make topics about them on these forums doesn't mean they haven't been around for way longer.

 

Botting yew, I cared because that's one of my main source of income, and compete with tons of them isn't fun.

Green Dragons, well, I am F2p, so not really sure if it affects other except pkers.

Botting barrows, wow, I didn't know they can do that.

Boss spots, man, we are so beyond raw materials gathering simple minded bots now

I remember someone mentioned they can bot dungeoneering soon, thought of it was a joke, but it might seem to be a reality soon.

 

Botting bosses or dungeoneering will probably never be possible because there's way too much random stuff to script, you would have to spent hours upon hours to make a bot for either.

[langer]

Well I had a blast of fun... and since this is a game... i'll let you figure out by yourself, you seem able enough.

 

lol most of us wait until after school or work to go on wanna-be mod adventures.

 

Judging by the amount of 99's you have and your dedication to hunting bots while your not leveling, I would say you probably play a bit too often and feel bots are bad because it degrades your "acheivements". Of course i could be wrong... but if im right then people like you are what disgust me about elite runescape players

 

Nah I hunted bots for an hour because I happened to go to varrock and saw those dozens of white dots running around and wanted to mess up with them a bit. I had my fun and that's all that matters to me. I hate bots because they happen to be in my way when I train some skills. I can also make some assumtions about you, but I won't stoop to that level.

[Guest TrixStar]

Well I had a blast of fun... and since this is a game... i'll let you figure out by yourself, you seem able enough.

but if im right then people like you are what disgust me about elite runescape players

Which part disgusts you? The amount of time he plays...which is none of your business...or the fact that he tries to clear cheaters from the game?

[Endoftheline]

Botting is never a good thing. I am sick of max level boss hunters saying that they don't mind the bots. Getting slayer high enough to hunt abbysal demons was a big deal to me, you can't touch them unless you work for it. But what do I find when I start hunting? 24/7 bots on abyssals filling the market with whips causing their prices to fall. After reporting them nothing happened, I still saw their bots while hunting and their adventure logs filled with whips. This is why I quit 4 months ago.