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An Intelligent Perspective On Botters


Nash

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For a while ive seen alot of negative comments being directed towards the people botting in game and how they have an unfair advantage over the regular Scaper'. As true as this is (and believe me im not trying to encourage botting in any way.) i feel like they can help us in some ways. Think about this:

 

The prices on most things has been durastically inflated due to the new PVP worlds, Bounty worlds, tricking, etc. Phats are at a street price of 1.5bil+ and most high level armor reflect the same problem. However, what has kept me from giving up on the economy all together is the fact that most resources (coal, chins, etc) are pretty cheap. Why do you think they are so cheap when the rest of the economy is inflated up the wazoo? Because, the botting communities cant bot PvP, or GWD, theyre left mining and hunting.

 

Let me try and explain a little info on the botters. When Jagex updates Runescape with Quests, new items, bug fixes, etc (any update), the botting programs go down temporarily until their creators (leaders of the botting community) check over everything and fix some of the problems created from these Updates. Now in those few days that a recent Update has occured, maybe youve noticed your favorite fishing spot is close to deserted, or that great Red Chin spot your always trying to get is wide open. The reason for that is probably because the Bots havent been updated to correspond with Jagex's new Updates. Seems really great right? You finally get to grind to 99 hunter in peace with an open chin spot or even mine in peace without competing for the ore spawns with "Mr Quiet". But while your getting to hunt, mine, fish, whatever, the rest of the players and economy take a big hit. Dont believe me?

 

Take a look at these:

 

Want to raise your Summoning by making granite lobsters? Get it in while you can, once Jagex beats out the bots for another segment of their ongoing battle with each other, those Granite 500gs are gunna soar.

granite.png

 

 

How about rasing that smithing? Getting a high enough smithing to make your own Dragon Plate sounds really good right around now with the current prices of ores and bars, but look at what will happen to those prices when botting is taken out of the game, even for just a day or two:

coal.png

 

 

And what about those red chins? I know i need 90+ range for Arma Gwd and Sara Gwd, but look at what happens when the botters disapear for a while:

redchins.png

 

As you can see, once botters are removed from the game, prices on even items like these are going to skyrocket in price, making smithing, crafting, etc cost an arm and a leg to level.

 

So what exactly am i getting at? Im trying to explain where the Topic of Botting stands in the bigger scheme of things. If i was to write out a list from 1-10 of things that Jagex needs to fix urgently, of course i would have botting prevention on the list, but it would by no means be #1 or even #2-5. If Jagex wants to get rid of botters, i would rather they fix the inflation ingame by nerfing the real causes first.

 

 

I understand that getting rid of botters would make mining coal, cutting up granite, or catching red chins a more viable option for making money, but if your really hunting chins for the big 30m youll make to get to 99, but if its money you need might i suggest just joining in on murdering the economy and 76k trick with a couple of your friends? Getting a 99 should be about you enjoying the skill anyways, not about how much youll make along the way.

 

Im not saying they shouldnt fix botting, im saying if they fix botting they better fix PvP Inflation in the same Update or close to it.

 

Oftenly asked question: Lower levels are poor, Higher levels are rich, if raw good prices went up because botters getting removed, it would allow the lower levels to getting richer:

 

Answer to that quest:

Higher level players can make 3-4mil an hour from boss hunting? Lets not forget about the time it takes to assemble a team, get kc, and buy the supplies to go with. So that brings us down to more like 2m an hour. Here goes the numbers:

 

 

2m an hour... so that means

 

-23.5m for bandos top

-25mil for bandos tassets

-4mil for Abby Whip

-500k for dragon boots

-14m for fury

-30m for dragonfire shield, or 70m+ for those spirit shields

 

Total: 100m for the whole "set" of armor for us. that will take us about 50 hours to collect the money for

 

 

Now lets look at the lower levels:

 

-You can make 500k an hour picking mort myre fungus (little reqs)

-If your a skiller with 91 hunter you can do puro puro for 1.5m+ and hour from kinglys and dragon imps

-Mining coal makes you... 30k an hour? (i dont honestly know)

-Flax makes 100k an hour

-Vial filling makes 100k an hour

-Cutting granite makes 150k an hour (but nobody does this cause its annoying, thats why botters are good here)

-Mining rune makes about 300k an hour

*Herblore has ALWAYS been a black whole and never good for $$

*Woodcutting has ALWAYS been a joke, nobody is going to reward you with a high GP p/hr with 80 wc BECAUSE IT TAKES LITTLE TO NO TIME TO ACHIEVE.

 

Your full rune costs 250k, full sara/rune costs around 6m-7m. That would take you about 50 hours making 100k an hour to get enough $$ for it.

 

The only skill i feel for is fishing to be honest. i do feel like raw fish should be a little higher...

 

 

 

 

 

 

In WoW, lower level players are happy to make a couple gold coins, while the high players need thousands of gold coins to get their armour, mounts, etc. You dont see their low level playing complaining about it because they realize their armor is less hard to get, and its less powerful then that of the higher players.

 

 

Want to have some fun messing with botters?

Go to the green dragons within the Chaos Tunnels and ask everyone via quick chat where their strength levels are. Youd be amazed how many repsond immediately and how convient it is that they respond within the same second :)

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i don't understand why the peaks correspond to quest updates if what you are saying is true. shouldn't the very start of the increases in prices correspond to the quest releases, and the peaks correspond to the botting programs being fixed?

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Hmm intersting read, Kinda skimmed most - the point is without botters prices would be even more expensive? Thats been an idea for a long time i thought.

 

Would also be intrested to know why this quest update effected anything?

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The argument that prices of raw materials would soar without the "help" of bots is not a new one. I'm with you that Jagex should fix the pvp GP inflation first but botting messes up the economy almost equally. It drives the prices down of certain items that are in fact undervalued because of botters.

 

edit: here's a list of players being helped by this

 

-pkers

-efficiency skillers

-players buying skills

 

players being hurt:

 

-low level players

-DIY players

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Follow the progress of top players and my weekly updates here: 200M in all Skills

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The problem with your observations is that you assume raw items and the such need low prices. If the prices go up It is not all bad. With bots gone, it will be much easier for the poverty gap in the community to narrow. Currently, the rich are incredibly rich and the poor who mine, WC, fish and hunt stay at a constant poor because the price of items stays low. If these prices rise, the rich have to spend more which brings their wealth down, but which raises the wealth of the poor who would have a much easier time making the money.

 

It would also decrease the wealth gap between those who skill and those who monster hunt/merchant.

 

I see it as a good thing that bots get removed, and personally i think drastic action needs to be taken to get rid of many bots at the moment as they have become just as much of a plague as they were during the level 3 bot years.

 

If you think prices are too high, gather the items yourself.

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I very much agree with what a few people have said already. Raw prices SHOULD be a lot higher than they are, bots are a bane for all of us trying to scrape their way through money matters with woodcutting/fishing. Prices should be higher than they are.

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Why do you think there are only 14 day bans for botting right now?

 

Racheya...Just...

 

Can you back up ANY of what you said?

 

"Prices should be higher than they are. "

 

Why? Because you want them to be higher?

 

If you are woodcutting or fishing for money, you are doing it wrong. Neither has ever been an even halfway decent way to make money. Hell, even hunting chins to 99 hunter only makes what, 30? That is 2-3 DKS trips.

 

Raw materials being higher would result in buyable skills costing even MORE. More people would be spending money on herb/pray etc.

 

Personally, I don't see bots as a major problem.

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For people who don't know - bots stop working after every update. It takes a day or two for the bot client makers to fix them. If you go to Soul Wars on the day of an update, you'll find it quite empty.

 

Personally, I do appreciate the lower prices brought by bots; it makes "buying" a skill a lot easier. However, I think to myself that if in the future, I were to train a competitive gathering skill, such as Hunter or Mining, the bots could get very annoying. (Though the only recent time I've encountered a bot was when I was mining a few ores at Yanille; I would get the iron every single time. The average legit player would've insulted me, perhaps even evading the censor, and hopped worlds.) I suppose that one's point of view on bots really depends on what one is training at the time: a gathering skill or a production skill.

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If you are woodcutting or fishing for money, you are doing it wrong. Neither has ever been an even halfway decent way to make money. Hell, even hunting chins to 99 hunter only makes what, 30? That is 2-3 DKS trips.

 

Raw materials being higher would result in buyable skills costing even MORE. More people would be spending money on herb/pray etc.

 

Personally, I don't see bots as a major problem.

 

Exactly, youve stated how inefficient skilling is for money.

 

Isnt this an indication that skilling needs to be improved somewhat?

O.O

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Why do you think there are only 14 day bans for botting right now?

 

Racheya...Just...

 

Can you back up ANY of what you said?

 

"Prices should be higher than they are. "

 

Why? Because you want them to be higher?

 

If you are woodcutting or fishing for money, you are doing it wrong. Neither has ever been an even halfway decent way to make money. Hell, even hunting chins to 99 hunter only makes what, 30? That is 2-3 DKS trips.

 

Raw materials being higher would result in buyable skills costing even MORE. More people would be spending money on herb/pray etc.

 

Personally, I don't see bots as a major problem.

ahhh...here we go again. Another blunt statement assuming everyone is lvl 130 something like you are. I am lvl 71. I keep a constant 3-4 mil by skilling, i.e. fishing while growing herbs, etc. I disagree with the graph, and i want the raw material prices to be higher, because then i would make more money, and then boss hunters like you wouldn't be making about 1000 gp per SECOND.

 

The math:

 

Let's say you make 2 mil in half an hour. 30x60 is 1800 seconds. 2,000,000/1800=1111.11 (repeating). That is about 1000 gp a second. And that is ridiculous. No one should make that much money.

 

EDIT: Actually you would make the same, just with more initial investment.

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TT rewards: 2 ranger boots, Zamorak page 1 (2x), Guthix page 1, Ancient page 2

 

You must construct additional oak larders doors... I mean pylons

 

Barrows: 10. Total value~22.3 mil. Ahrim Robeskirt is currently the item I have received the most.

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If you are woodcutting or fishing for money, you are doing it wrong. Neither has ever been an even halfway decent way to make money. Hell, even hunting chins to 99 hunter only makes what, 30? That is 2-3 DKS trips.

 

Raw materials being higher would result in buyable skills costing even MORE. More people would be spending money on herb/pray etc.

 

Personally, I don't see bots as a major problem.

 

Exactly, youve stated how inefficient skilling is for money.

 

Isnt this an indication that skilling needs to be improved somewhat?

 

No. MH should be FAR more profitable for numerous reasons:

 

1.) Time spent getting high enough skills to MH efficiently.

 

2.) Money spent on gear to MH well.

 

3.) Money spent on skills such as prayer/herb to MH well.

 

4.) Risk. There is always risk. I've been at GWD where the whole world lagged out, and everyone in the boss room died before.

 

5.) Input. I don't know any boss which is easier to AFK then fishing/mining/wcing.

 

6.) Time. Most bosses take preparation time, and time commitment then any skilling money maker, unless perhaps herb runs. However, herb runs are profitable already, and aren't a part of this discussion.

 

7.) Cost. Even though there are averages, dry streaks still occur, and one needs cash to cover supplies.

 

There are more, but I think I made my point.

 

Also, if you skill, why do you need as much money? Most gear is for killing things anyways, and unless you are looking at aesthetic items such as party hats and certain TT items, you shouldn't need as much cash.

 

And I make ~4.5m gp/hr at DKS. Why shouldn't I? I spent hundred of hours, and over 1b on my gear and stats. If you want to make that kind of money, train up. Hell, I've trained attack more then DOUBLE the amount you've trained ALL your skills. And yet you tell me I shouldn't make good cash?

 

If I have a better education then you IRL man, I'm probably going to be making far more then you.

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GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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Hate to break it to you Svaac but thats how ALL games go. The higher lvl you are, the more money you make. Thats why the prices for our armor is so much mroe expensive then the lower levels.

 

 

We make 3-4mil an hour from boss hunting? Lets not forget about the time it takes to assemble a team, get kc, and buy the supplies to go with. So that brings us down to more like 2m an hour. Here goes the numbers:

 

 

2m an hour... so that means

 

-23.5m for bandos top

-25mil for bandos tassets

-4mil for Abby Whip

-500k for dragon boots

-14m for fury

-30m for dragonfire shield, or 70m+ for those spirit shields

 

Total: 100m for the whole "set" of armor for us. that will take us about 50 hours to collect the money for

 

 

Now lets look at the lower levels:

 

-You can make 500k an hour picking mort myre fungus (little reqs)

-If your a skiller with 91 hunter you can do puro puro for 1.5m+ and hour from kinglys and dragon imps

-Mining coal makes you... 30k an hour? (i dont honestly know)

-Flax makes 100k an hour

-Vial filling makes 100k an hour

-Cutting granite makes 150k an hour (but nobody does this cause its annoying, thats why botters are good here)

-Mining rune makes about 300k an hour

*Herblore has ALWAYS been a black whole and never good for $$

*Woodcutting has ALWAYS been a joke, nobody is going to reward you with a high GP p/hr with 80 wc BECAUSE IT TAKES LITTLE TO NO TIME TO ACHIEVE.

 

Your full rune costs 250k, full sara/rune costs around 6m-7m. That would take you about 50 hours making 100k an hour to get enough $$ for it.

 

The only skill i feel for is fishing to be honest. i do feel like raw fish should be a little higher...

 

 

 

 

 

 

In WoW, lower level players are happy to make a couple gold coins, while the high players need thousands of gold coins to get their armour, mounts, etc. You dont see their low level playing complaining about it because they realize their armor is less hard to get, and its less powerful then that of the higher players.

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ahhh...here we go again. Another blunt statement assuming everyone is lvl 130 something like you are. I am lvl 71. I keep a constant 3-4 mil by skilling, i.e. fishing while growing herbs, etc. I disagree with the graph, and i want the raw material prices to be higher, because then i would make more money, and then boss hunters like you wouldn't be making about 1000 gp per SECOND.

 

The math:

 

Let's say you make 2 mil in half an hour. 30x60 is 1800 seconds. 2,000,000/1800=1111.11 (repeating). That is about 1000 gp a second. And that is ridiculous. No one should make that much money.

 

EDIT: Actually you would make the same, just with more initial investment.

 

First of all. Runescape does not have seconds. It runs on increments of about 0.6 real seconds (game ticks)

 

Secondly, you don't have to stay a low level forever. You can always train your combat level so that you too can access high level money-making methods. However, even with your low level, you still have tons of ways to make 500k-600k/hour: gathering potato cacti, killing snakes for snakeskins, planking, opening Hunter Kits (though admittedly, this would kill your wrist), getting impling jars... just a few off the top of my head. And that's not even counting farming profit.

 

Some advice: train your combat level to 85 and do Smoking Kills. Then you can buy unfinished broad bolts daily, which if you sell on the G/E, is about 100k for less than a minute's work. Also, you can buy earth/water runes from various rune shops and get some nice profit that way, as well. On my main (combat level is only barely 100), I make about 500k-800k/day for 20 minutes of work - not counting any Farming profits. I don't even bother w/ any money-making focused activities anymore; I just log on and do whatever I feel like. There's a guide to dailies on the forums somewhere, I believe.

 

Of course, you don't have to do anything I just said. Everybody should have the right to play the game their own way :)

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The rich want to stay rich and they want the poor to stay poor as usual. The point of runescape is supposed to be choice. There are hundreds of things to do in this game, yet every time this discussion comes up, those who can make millions per hour just say something along the lines of Well I spend hours getting the levels so why shouldn't i get more money?

 

Guess what, those who skill spend hours getting levels too. Woodcutters spend hours getting their levels because they choose too. Why should they be penalised for that just because you chose a different path? You should be able to do everything in this game and make reasonable money doing so.

 

The argument of risk vs reward wasn't so bad back when the most expensive drops were below 20m, but now that you can get drops worth upwards of 60m, the difference compared to skilling is out of this world. If most items were still lost on death then I would agree more that it is risky, but it really is not.

 

 

People do not seem to realise that new players cannot hope to get wealthy to become the next generation of monster hunters. The poor cannot monster hunt due to the wealthy crashing them, and they cannot skill for money due to its hugely low gp/h compared to items needed.

 

Gp/h for skilling has remained flat for years, yet the gp/h made from monster hunting has increased tenfold. How is that fair?

 

 

 

This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

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This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

Then why does WoW have so many more players? Maybe that's what people like. <_<

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Hate to break it to you Svaac but thats how ALL games go. The higher lvl you are, the more money you make. Thats why the prices for our armor is so much mroe expensive then the lower levels.

 

 

We make 3-4mil an hour from boss hunting? Lets not forget about the time it takes to assemble a team, get kc, and buy the supplies to go with. So that brings us down to more like 2m an hour. Here goes the numbers:

 

 

2m an hour... so that means

 

-23.5m for bandos top

-25mil for bandos tassets

-4mil for Abby Whip

-500k for dragon boots

-14m for fury

-30m for dragonfire shield, or 70m+ for those spirit shields

 

Total: 100m for the whole "set" of armor for us. that will take us about 50 hours to collect the money for

 

 

Now lets look at the lower levels:

 

-You can make 500k an hour picking mort myre fungus (little reqs)

-If your a skiller with 91 hunter you can do puro puro for 1.5m+ and hour from kinglys and dragon imps

-Mining coal makes you... 30k an hour? (i dont honestly know)

-Flax makes 100k an hour

-Vial filling makes 100k an hour

-Cutting granite makes 150k an hour (but nobody does this cause its annoying, thats why botters are good here)

-Mining rune makes about 300k an hour

*Herblore has ALWAYS been a black whole and never good for $$

*Woodcutting has ALWAYS been a joke, nobody is going to reward you with a high GP p/hr with 80 wc BECAUSE IT TAKES LITTLE TO NO TIME TO ACHIEVE.

 

Your full rune costs 250k, full sara/rune costs around 6m-7m. That would take you about 50 hours making 100k an hour to get enough $$ for it.

 

The only skill i feel for is fishing to be honest. i do feel like raw fish should be a little higher...

 

 

 

 

 

 

In WoW, lower level players are happy to make a couple gold coins, while the high players need thousands of gold coins to get their armour, mounts, etc. You dont see their low level playing complaining about it because they realize their armor is less hard to get, and its less powerful then that of the higher players.

 

What makes you think that because i have low combat stats i wear full rune? Fyi, i wear RED BLESSED D HIDE most of the time, something i only see lvl 80-100+ people with. For a lvl 71 person who makes all of their money off skilling, I'm pretty rich. It's all about perspective. But come on, 500 gp (based on what you said) per SECOND? that means that in the time it takes me to write this, you have made almost 150k. Yet, I, a lvl 71 with fair stats, would have made maybe 10k. Like Danqazmlp said, why should skillers stay poor, when monster hunters have made tenfold the money that they used to? Technically, we own you. If every skiller decided to stop making potions, for example, then it wouldn't be long before the potions price would soar due to the only income being drops, and you would be forced to either skill or else monster hunting wouldn't work. You are at the skiller's will. We can stop making food, stop pots, stop bow and arrow and bolt production, stop rune production, and you would be screwed. That simple. Of course, this is all hypothetical.

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TT rewards: 2 ranger boots, Zamorak page 1 (2x), Guthix page 1, Ancient page 2

 

You must construct additional oak larders doors... I mean pylons

 

Barrows: 10. Total value~22.3 mil. Ahrim Robeskirt is currently the item I have received the most.

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This isn't WoW, we shouldn't force lower levels to grind their way to the highest levels to get access to the game making everything beforehand obsolete. Everything should have a role to play.

 

Then why does WoW have so many more players? Maybe that's what people like. <_<

 

 

But this isn't WoW. If people want to do that they can play that game can't they. Players want to have choice. The consensus from the richer players is to level up and mh to make more money. Where is the choice in that? There only seems to be one choice and one direction to take to be successful in this game. The game was not built to be like that. The only reason it is like that is because MH profit has increased while skilling has not.

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Hate to break it to you Svaac but thats how ALL games go. The higher lvl you are, the more money you make. Thats why the prices for our armor is so much mroe expensive then the lower levels.

 

 

We make 3-4mil an hour from boss hunting? Lets not forget about the time it takes to assemble a team, get kc, and buy the supplies to go with. So that brings us down to more like 2m an hour. Here goes the numbers:

 

 

2m an hour... so that means

 

-23.5m for bandos top

-25mil for bandos tassets

-4mil for Abby Whip

-500k for dragon boots

-14m for fury

-30m for dragonfire shield, or 70m+ for those spirit shields

 

Total: 100m for the whole "set" of armor for us. that will take us about 50 hours to collect the money for

 

 

Now lets look at the lower levels:

 

-You can make 500k an hour picking mort myre fungus (little reqs)

-If your a skiller with 91 hunter you can do puro puro for 1.5m+ and hour from kinglys and dragon imps

-Mining coal makes you... 30k an hour? (i dont honestly know)

-Flax makes 100k an hour

-Vial filling makes 100k an hour

-Cutting granite makes 150k an hour (but nobody does this cause its annoying, thats why botters are good here)

-Mining rune makes about 300k an hour

*Herblore has ALWAYS been a black whole and never good for $$

*Woodcutting has ALWAYS been a joke, nobody is going to reward you with a high GP p/hr with 80 wc BECAUSE IT TAKES LITTLE TO NO TIME TO ACHIEVE.

 

Your full rune costs 250k, full sara/rune costs around 6m-7m. That would take you about 50 hours making 100k an hour to get enough $$ for it.

 

Aaaaaand how are people supposed to earn that 100m for decent gear so they don't get crashed out once they actually get decent levels?

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because it takes 50 hours to get it the "better" armor? the game is designed like this

 

 

 

X amount of time at a low lvl will get you low lvl gear and low lvl money (yes, low lvl money, aka 250k, 1m max)

 

That same x amount of time at a much higher lvl will you get you higher lvl gear and much higher lvl money (20m+)

 

 

-chinning for range xp costs several mils per lvl

-ice bursting costs several mils for mage and summoning xp per lvl

-training prayer costs crap loads of $$

-training cb at higher lvls require p pots and sharks = lots of money

 

^ these are what higher lvl players need

 

-you cant expect to make alot of money at lower lvls, its not that simple in real life and its not that simple ingame either... you have to work your ways up the charts. dont be so ignorant. you only make 110k an hour mining iron for a reason, low reqs. With 91 hunter u make the same as boss hunting.

 

-woodcutting makes no profit because its an easy skill, until jagex updates it, dont do it if u dont like it. nuff said. it hasnt been profitable since the creation of rs2 tbh...

 

 

American dream folks, or should i say, the Runescapers dream. Lvl up, make more, get better armor, lvl up more, make more, etc

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