An Intelligent Perspective On Botters

[pulli23]

Uhm my 91 rc didn't take little time.. Nor was it not risky (I quitted playing shortly after the wilderness was removed, got to ~88 before the GE)..

 

And well don't tell me camping bandos is risky? I used to go a lot with a few friends while I still played (and I was lvl 100-110 back then).. And never ever died, it's a piece of cake.

 

 

But there is just 1 weird thing:

since the GE was removed, rcing has become the same, or slightly less profitable

yet GWD has become more profitable

 

THAT is the weird thing I see happening now: similar happened for mining, woodcutting, fishing..

 

On the other hand if you want to TRAIN some skill for combat (herblore, prayer) it becomes much more expensive..

 

These 2 facts mean that those who went for full-combat are getting ahead money-wise from those who went (first) to level skills. And now we're getting to a point that -the way to 99- it is completely stupid to go first for skilling, and try to get better in combat thanks to the skilling you did.. The only way is to go first for combat, and thanks to the money made from combat skilling becomes easier/faster.

 

These 2 paths leading to the same goal should, in my opinion, be of similar length..

[Central_Keeper]

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Actually, I think we argue to a point that we start using bot and macro interchangeably now. Could a forum mod states again what we are suppose to discuss here? lol

[pulli23]

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :)

 

and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :)

 

have a nice day

read that anology written on previous page? - You sound really arrogant there. Egoistical actually.

[langer]

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :)

 

and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :)

 

have a nice day

 

No you don'T understand, my opinions are now truth and nothing you say have any effect. You fear that people ranting against bot will make Jagex be harsher on macros and you will end up perma-ban. There I go, another baseless assumption.

 

Have a nice botter's day.

 

As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops.

[greenmelf]

The 'need' for bots for RS to 'work properly' just shows you how poorly designed the game is.

 

The whole current system of making higher level resources much slower vastly reduces their exp and profit and is just begging for botters to fill in the gap left by sensible people that don't want to waste their time on horrible exp and gp.

 

So quick suggestions;

make all mining rocks, fishing spots and woodcutting trees work like concentrated coal/gold

(much more friendly to players )

make ores, logs, raw fish, bones, hides, and such semi-stackable, stacks up to 5 per inventory slot

(would make collecting d'hide and bones easier, prices fall, less demand for bots)

increase chances of successfully gathering high level resources, i.e. coal, yew logs, magic logs, shark, mithril, etc...

(would make higher level resources a desirable way to train, market gets flooded, prices fall, less demand for bots)

 

Yes, exp rates would increase, but that not necessarily a bad thing, especially if it helps reduce the 'need' for bot.

 

 

Regardless of any 'benefit' on the economy; botters should be banned.

[pulli23]

Regardless of any 'benefit' on the economy; botters should be perm ban instantly, zero tolerance.

 

Problem is their detection scripts detect lots of false positives.

 

When I was training for runecrafting during that time I was banned 3 times for botting in a period of 1 year. (Yet obviously I wasn't). - Worst thing is they (Jagex) never said what caused the (script, mod?) to trigger so I couldn't do anything.

[Rock Hard]

 

 

As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops.

 

tbh, considering that without botters 'pure' ess wouldnt even exist - this is an interesting point

[Danqazmlp]

I don't think you can say Tip.it glorifies bots at all. It seems that there are maybe one or two people here saying good things. That is not tip.it.

 

The trade limits did stop bots for a time. Three years of having a fairly limited bot population or at least one that didn't ave to much of an effect seems like a good move.

[Central_Keeper]

Oh i know my personal opinions dont represent all of tip.it, somewhere in this thread someone mentioned that they felt that tip.it indeed does feel that way. I offered an explanation why they might feel that way.

 

But on-topic:

 

This thread is a debate whether or not bots in themselves are a bad thing to legitiment players. I think once you get past its unfair they make money and exp with less effort then me, then you start to see that hey there are a number of ways that I do infact benefit from other players botting. Of course the arguement of whether or not they benefit the legit community as a whole is still up for debate.

 

OFFTOPIC: The issue of why people bot and how to stop it is also up for debate it seems. As the weekly article this week said, Jagex can win every battle against bots but they cant win the war. Runescape in its current state will always have people who will bot in it.

 

How can this change?

 

1.)More fun ways to train (remember this IS a game and you should enjoy yourself)

 

2.) *potentially game changing solution* skills requiring REAL skill (for example imagine smithing where you have to physically shape the metals into armor and how good you do it decides its quality)

 

3.) *unwanted solution* Allow every player to only play a certain amount of time per day. Since human playing is more efficient then botting, it would stop the use of bots.

 

Just a few i came up with on the top of my head. The easiest and least game changing method would be just to add more fun methods to train skills that are on par with current xp rates from normal training methods.

 

 

Frankly, i feel that if a problem continues to exist despite drastic steps to solve it, your either trying to shove the wrong shaped puzzle piece into the spot because you dont know that there are other pieces or your unwilling to look for them and you feel that the piece your using is right, no matter what.

 

 

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :)

 

and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :)

 

have a nice day

 

No you don'T understand, my opinions are now truth and nothing you say have any effect. You fear that people ranting against bot will make Jagex be harsher on macros and you will end up perma-ban. There I go, another baseless assumption.

 

Have a nice botter's day.

 

As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops.

 

 

I dont care if Jagex perma banns macro users. THEY SHOULD DO THAT. Im not sure of the logic why it was changed at all. However what i DO fear is that people ranting against botters will lead to more stupidity.

 

Pure ess itself represents the stupidity of Jagex's attempts to fix botting. Ess shouldnt be more then 30gp each. Pure ess should never have existed, all pure ess did in the long run was make Runecrafting less profitable and make bots (and Jagex) even more money.

 

But clearly im the selfish, arrogent, egotistical one though. Clearly im only looking after my interests and not the community. Also clearly im a bot. :rolleyes:

 

To say at least that RS is mostly revolved around levels, and levels need xp to raise, and xp need time to earn. You are stockpiling the cash now so you can grind away later to hit all 99s, all that efficiency is to make you grind away faster. Still, you are grinding towards any 99s, and any 99s need time.

 

I do admit that some plans that were implemented to stop botting weren't done very well, well at least the reception of it weren't doing so well. I seen a lot of players use that as a comeback to ask Jagex to fix this type problem properly in the future, and then we won't repeat the same mistake again. It's a lot of stuff to balance, and who can think that ahead anyways? To put it bluntly, some other bot programmers will always in the same pace as Jagex.

 

It's niche market for money, and it's using human greed to fuel all those rule breakers out there. Basically, I feel like we are going in circles here, with nothing really productive to say on the overall subject I think the only thing that Jagex can do is trying to rectify some part of the system properly so less of those complaints would appear.

 

Community wise, I would still report autoers if I do see them, as for buying stuff, that's hard, unless you buy from suppliers who you know for a while, and they get all the supplies themselves, which means they will have to get rid of GE.

[ghjkl]

The only way I make money is boss hunting.

Bots can't boss hunt, and they never will be able to. No one with maxed melees, overloads, and turmoil would risk their account botting.

They make everything else cheaper.

From my perspective, bots are benefiting me.

[Crit2h]

Principle of Self Interest.

 

People who benefits from bots may not dislike bots, but people who is hurt by bots significantly hate bots.

 

There are more than 1 reason why (Gold-farming bots) remains nowadays, but we should not forget that macro users (Players who bot) also hurt others' gameplay, other than just breaking the rules.

 

If it doesn't hurt you, you don't understand.

 

Poke around f2p mining guild these days, and you can see many bots/macroers.

 

Poke around hunter spots, bots and macroers.

 

Green dragons at chaos tunnels, macroers and bots.

 

Ring World, the days before you merched, what were you doing? Were you affected?

 

Personal opinions, may or may not have impact on one another, and some statements are just a matter of perspective.

 

Down with bots and macroers, just hoped Jagex banned every one of them perm, I wish.

 

Playing is different from gameplay.

[langer]

@ Ring

 

Interesting solutions.... but more fun ways to train will not stop botters to gatter pure ess. Pure ess mining is only to make cash, not to train mining. Greed and laziness are the motivation for botting.

[ghjkl]

Skilling isn't meant to make money, it's meant to gain total exp/levels.

[langer]

Skilling isn't meant to make money, it's meant to gain total exp/levels.

 

does it justify botting?

[greenmelf]

@ Ring

 

Interesting solutions.... but more fun ways to train will not stop botters to gatter pure ess. Pure ess mining is only to make cash, not to train mining. Greed and laziness are the motivation for botting.

Make rune/pure essence mining like granite mining.

You mine chucks of some magically infused rocks, then chisel it down into multiple rune/pure essence.

Give mining the rock chucks enough exp to make competitive with mining other things.

Give chiseling a decent crafting exp and small runecrafting exp so it's worth doing.

 

Possible downside, being able to bring rock to altar then chisel them, thus more essence per run, faster runecrafting exp, not necessarily bad though.

Possible upside, easier rune/pure essence, market floods, prices drop, less demand for bots.

[pulli23]

Skilling isn't meant to make money, it's meant to gain total exp/levels.

Uhm nope, remember those days the first people achieved 80+ smithing? - Ye they made easily a million (which was a lot). I really wonder when this idea was adopted that monster hunting should be the main income for everyone which fuels skilling..

[Cassynder]

You find yourself intelligent? How pretentious. And untrue.

[Crit2h]

Ring, your answer is a lol.

 

Reason 2 is equal to reason 1. They are lazy to do it, just finding an excuse to call it repetitive. Is that a joke? If they want a skill, they should train it on their own. It's just like, if you want $, get it yourself.

 

That's how playing is like. People who cheat using bots are nearly equivalent to those who stoop down to private servers.

 

Does this change your perspective?

[PlzPuddngPlz]

I personally think the reason (for example) dragon bones prices are so high now is because of botters.

 

Back in the (good old) days when d bone prices were really cheap because of botters. This lead to a bunch of people training prayer high. Because of this, stats such as 70+ prayer became bare minimums for (most) GWD teams, which lead to more people training prayer, which drove up the prices of dragon bones again, leading to more bots.

 

In this example, botting goes in circles, with more bots indirectly creating more bots

 

(you should note that all the stuff I just said is my own personal opinion, and shouldn't be taken as fact.)

 

Anyways, Ring_World, I suggest you have a look at this article on Internet argument techniques, especially number 10.

 

Internet argument #10 :

This discussion has gone way off topic however. Lets get back on topic of the effect botters has on the game, not what is and isn't illegal as I doubt any of us have law degrees so nothing definite could be said.

 

Actually yes and I have been blaming Jagex for botters for a long time.

Ive gone into detail on other threads. Which you can look for youself, or i can dig up a link for you if your interested.

But heres what i think jagex should do...

I think Jagex should take an ATITD approach.

In that game part of smithing is you actually have to shape the axe with tools to make it. However its like that with almost everything, where it requires real skill to make things.

However that game goes as far as to allow macros for the more boring stuff. and the harder more worthwhile stuff cant be macroed anyways

 

(if you actually do have a law degree, just ignore that : P)

[Viv]

i make money by skilling and im a high lvl o.o

 

anyway rcing double natures is still 800k-1m an hr and get rc exp like 25k+ =p

 

slayer makes alot but would make even more without bots because dragon bones would go through the roof =p.

 

just getting a staff of light or a whip now and again is enough for me....

 

now with dungeoneering thier is alot of possibilities for skilling to make money if the surface dungeons provide better places for runite/or other

 

but besides rc and slayer the other skills dont really make allot but they dont require the timecommitment to get good levels.....80-91 rc took me 5 weeks or soo zmiing snd when i got it i was like omggg.

 

I calculated i spent 850million on skills so i musta made something

[My_Eggs]

@Ring World

 

I'm just gonna throw it out there and assume you botted your 99 WC and cooking and run a CC of manipulators without proof and make a fool of myself because I consider the assumptions I make to be the truth.

 

I will also assume you are a bad merchanter because you have bad expensive skills stats.

 

Or maybe i have a massive cashpile and im waiting on getting them all to 99 in one go :)

 

and I dont bot, but i dont hate people that do either. They dont HURT my gameplay and infact they will BENEFIT me when i work on all my production skills at once :)

 

have a nice day

 

No you don'T understand, my opinions are now truth and nothing you say have any effect. You fear that people ranting against bot will make Jagex be harsher on macros and you will end up perma-ban. There I go, another baseless assumption.

 

Have a nice botter's day.

 

As to your statement saying bots don't have an effect on your gameplay, wait till you start slaying pure-ess droppers and you'll get undervalued drops.

 

Slaying as a moneymaker #-o

 

please stop your embarrassing me. what is that 90k (probably more) an hour without rare drops?

I have seen a lot of threads asking if slayer is a good money maker, and plenty of responses saying YES Its amazing i made 80mil, only took me 9 months of playing. Grand total of a whooping 50k an hour.

 

Or -800k an hour with extremes, cannonballs, etc.

 

 

But if your so sure im a bot, i must have an amazing one. 6 years of playing and 0 offenses.

 

 

I don't know if you've just never slayed before in you're life, or if you're just pulling numbers out of your ass, but saying slayer is 50k an hour is complete [cabbage]. :shame:

 

This is from 35 minutes at jungle strykewyrms.

 

I don't know about you, but that looks like a bit more than 50k an hour to me. :rolleyes:

[Dacicus]

But heres what i think jagex should do...

 

I think Jagex should take an ATITD approach.

 

In that game part of smithing is you actually have to shape the axe with tools to make it. However its like that with almost everything, where it requires real skill to make things.

Based on that description, it sounds like graphical artists have quite an advantage. Implementing such a technique into Runescape would only lead to the use of more bots by people who cannot draw well.

 

 

Reason why the nuke didnt work is because Jagex has not adressed why people bot in the first place. Mainly because a large portion of the game revolves around doing the same action a 100k times for levels.

 

Now i dont know how many HUMANS find repetition to truely be fun (i know people enjoy the destination but i doubt hardly any of you enjoy the road along the way).

Certainly, it can get boring if you try to get a ton of levels all at once via the most "efficient" grinding methods. With the multitude of skills and activities available, especially to you members, I do not see why you would need to do that. There are ways to "enjoy the road," such as rotating what skills you train or helping other players.

 

Furthermore, why should bots be allowed to interfere with those of us who do like the repetitive skills like mining or wcing? Just because some people are not willing to put the same effort into those skills yet still want to benefit from them? By that reasoning, you personally would not report a single player who bots combat skills at your favorite monster hunting location because he tells you that he finds those skills dreadfully boring, right?

 

 

The only way I make money is boss hunting.

Bots can't boss hunt, and they never will be able to. No one with maxed melees, overloads, and turmoil would risk their account botting.

I disagree that bots will never be able to boss hunt. Sooner or later, a programmer will make a bot that can boss hunt because

• it is a challenging project and he likes challenges AND/OR
  
• it will allow him to learn or improve programming skills such as AI design AND/OR
  
• he can make real-world money by selling or renting out the bot.

Those same reasons ensure that, eventually, there will be bots that can max melee, overloads, turmoil, etc. Then the people who are too lazy to do those things themselves will use the bots without fear because they can just create new accounts if the old ones get banned. Since the bots do all the work, there would not be as much risk in losing the account as there is currently. The fact that I encounter mid- to high-level players clearly botting in the mining guild every time I am there indicates that they do not even care much about their accounts now.

[wioneo]

 

I disagree that bots will never be able to boss hunt. Sooner or later, a programmer will make a bot that can boss hunt because

• it is a challenging project and he likes challenges AND/OR
  
• it will allow him to learn or improve programming skills such as AI design AND/OR
  
• he can make real-world money by selling or renting out the bot.

Those same reasons ensure that, eventually, there will be bots that can max melee, overloads, turmoil, etc. Then the people who are too lazy to do those things themselves will use the bots without fear because they can just create new accounts if the old ones get banned. Since the bots do all the work, there would not be as much risk in losing the account as there is currently. The fact that I encounter mid- to high-level players clearly botting in the mining guild every time I am there indicates that they do not even care much about their accounts now.

 

Depends on the boss.

 

Regardless, it would take ages to have an account chop logs or whatever to gain the hundreds of millions to train pray+herblore high, actually train pray+herblore high, and then camp at wherever for the combat levels.

[joke33]

@ Ring

 

Interesting solutions.... but more fun ways to train will not stop botters to gatter pure ess. Pure ess mining is only to make cash, not to train mining. Greed and laziness are the motivation for botting.

Make rune/pure essence mining like granite mining.

You mine chucks of some magically infused rocks, then chisel it down into multiple rune/pure essence.

Give mining the rock chucks enough exp to make competitive with mining other things.

Give chiseling a decent crafting exp and small runecrafting exp so it's worth doing.

 

Possible downside, being able to bring rock to altar then chisel them, thus more essence per run, faster runecrafting exp, not necessarily bad though.

Possible upside, easier rune/pure essence, market floods, prices drop, less demand for bots.

AND if the stones are untradeable- more reasons to mine it yourself and less for bots.

 

Skilling isn't meant to make money, it's meant to gain total exp/levels.

Uhm nope, remember those days the first people achieved 80+ smithing? - Ye they made easily a million (which was a lot). I really wonder when this idea was adopted that monster hunting should be the main income for everyone which fuels skilling..

I think it came as the bosses began to give more profit- like when GWD came along in 2007 (was that REALLY so long ago? - jeesh).

[Logdotzip]

Until bots are sophisticated enough to take on boss monsters, most MHer's don't give a s*** about skilling bots