An Elitist's View on Crashing

[Blyaunte]

The reason I didn't quote the part about it being rude, was because that's been stated many many many times already in this thread, I felt no need to go through it yet again.

 

It is interesting to note the number of players who have all pretty much reached the same conclusions I have with respect to the adverse effect that rudeness is having on the game. Is it not?

[Bladewing]

The reason I didn't quote the part about it being rude, was because that's been stated many many many times already in this thread, I felt no need to go through it yet again.

 

It is interesting to note the number of players who have all pretty much reached the same conclusions I have with respect to the adverse effect that rudeness is having on the game. Is it not?

argument: if a reasonable number of outspoken individuals reach a particular conclusion, their conclusion must be founded.

 

example: a majority of united states congressmen and women, whose opinions are well heard above those of a regular jackoff, concluded that invading iraq would be a good idea. therefore, their conclusion was founded.

 

to directly refute your anecdotal evidence, i have some anecdotal evidence of my own: i have more and better friends in runescape than i did 5 years ago.

[SirIzenhime]

The reason I didn't quote the part about it being rude, was because that's been stated many many many times already in this thread, I felt no need to go through it yet again.

 

It is interesting to note the number of players who have all pretty much reached the same conclusions I have with respect to the adverse effect that rudeness is having on the game. Is it not?

 

That's cool, it's been discussed already before.

[TheAncient]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

people tend to care most about situations that are relevant to them. this isn't selfish, it's just how people operate.

 

look at your own example:

 

Most people operating off cable or DSL, particularly in the U.S., have a faster d/l rate than the second rate cable/dsl we have in Canada. While my Cable provides a 6.4 mbps, most of those players in the U.S. are operating at 21+. It's even worse if you've got a piece of crap Bell DSL network.

 

Any noob with a half-decent internet connection is going to see the monster spawn before I do and will get the first attack.

 

you're probably like one in 1000 players who have this problem, yet you still generalize this issue to other people.

 

It is interesting to note the number of players who have all pretty much reached the same conclusions I have with respect to the adverse effect that rudeness is having on the game. Is it not?

 

not to be rude, but you (and others) should really start qualifying accepted truths. stupidity in numbers is still stupidity.

[Danqazmlp]

I get what you are saying Blyaunte. It is a snowball effect that has been in the works for a while now, but is rapidly gaining speed (as it would) that rune players crash others, leading to them crashing others, leading to them crashing others etc etc etc. Eventually, a thread like this pops up which shows every new player who wishes to boss hunt that you have to crash, which leads to everybody being rude and crashing. A few years of that and new members stop boss hunting due to it being too hostile, which leads the game to stagnate.

 

That is a worst case scenario, but it does hurt to see the game go that way.

 

In an ideal world, people would not crash if they didn't have to, they would search an adequate number of worlds before resorting to crashing. They would still crash but they would do it in a polite manner, telling the other player their reasoning. However, this will not happen as this game is frequented by too many people who have not yet learn't moral standards and who do not care that other players like playing in a polite and friendly game world.

[Blyaunte]

The reason I didn't quote the part about it being rude, was because that's been stated many many many times already in this thread, I felt no need to go through it yet again.

 

It is interesting to note the number of players who have all pretty much reached the same conclusions I have with respect to the adverse effect that rudeness is having on the game. Is it not?

argument: if a reasonable number of outspoken individuals reach a particular conclusion, their conclusion must be founded.

 

example: a majority of united states officials, whose opinions are well heard above those of a regular jackoff, concluded that invading iraq would be a good idea. therefore, their conclusion was founded.

 

Tell me Blade, are you trying to argue that the game environment has NOT declined in recent years? That players are NOT more rude now than they used to be?

 

Because, if you are, then you're talking out of your ass. <_<

[Blyaunte]

... not to be rude, but you (and others) should really learn to question and qualify universally accepted morals. people who blindly follow morals will and are greatly taken advantage of in any social context. stupidity in numbers is still stupidity.

 

Ok -- I LOL'd at "universally accepted morals". Morality has nothing to do with this.

 

It's about consideration of your social environment. It's about learning how and why you need to interact with other people. What you're purporting is akin to saying that it is far better to look out only for yourself than to consider the quality of life of everyone involved.

 

It is precisely THAT kind of thinking that creates the societal woes we have today. No one bothers looking out for anyone else. No one gives a damn about improving OTHER people's quality of life. All that matters is that they get that item they want, and then piss on the rest of world in the process.

 

Honestly -- when is society going to learn that we cannot crap all over each other all the time and expect our civilization to move forward?

[Bladewing]

my point was that a number, or even the majority, believing in something does not make it so.

 

and i don't think the community has really changed that much since 2007 (which was the last huge change in community orientation [clan chats, GE, and removal of traditional pvp], in my opinion), i think it's mostly that you and i have grown older and now expect a different community than what it has been. crashing has always had the same meanness about it - since the first time i was "crashed" at the hero's guild blue dragon in 2003 or 2004 by a guy with wind strikes - it's always been the same. but now that so many more parts of the game can be crashed (more bosses = higher odds that in a given hour of playing time you will experience a crasher), we notice it more.

 

oh, and if you think that societies function because of selflessness, then you are probably wrong.

[Troacctid]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

Tell me Blade, are you trying to argue that the game environment has NOT declined in recent years? That players are NOT more rude now than they used to be?

 

Because, if you are, then you're talking out of your ass. <_<

"Memoria praeteritorum bonorum," as the saying goes.

[Blyaunte]

my point was that a number, or even the majority, believing in something does not make it so.

 

I will concede that point in theory as it applies generally -- but I won't concede it in this case. The game environment has become a lot less friendly.

 

and i don't think the community has really changed that much since 2007 (which was the last huge change in community orientation [clan chats, GE, and removal of traditional pvp], in my opinion), i think it's mostly that you and i have grown older and now expect a different community than what it has been. crashing has always had the same meanness about it - since the first time i was "crashed" at the hero's guild blue dragon in 2003 or 2004 by a guy with wind strikes - it's always been the same. but now that so many more parts of the game can be crashed (more bosses = higher odds that in a given hour of playing time you will experience a crasher), we notice it more.

 

We notice it more because it happens far too frequently -- much more frequently than it used to happen. The attitude in the game has changed. People are a lot less friendly than they used to be.

 

In game, amongst most common question I am always asked is "Why are you so friendly when most high levels are [wagon]?" -- and I get asked that question *every* day.

 

Frankly -- IMO -- the game environment began declining when you could no longer "challenge" other players. After that, it became very easy for players to hide behind their view screens and act like malicious idiots.

 

Personally -- if people want to be "hot studs" and go about crashing others, then perhaps they should try crashing on PvP worlds ...

[SirHartlar]

The reason I didn't quote the part about it being rude, was because that's been stated many many many times already in this thread, I felt no need to go through it yet again.

 

It is interesting to note the number of players who have all pretty much reached the same conclusions I have with respect to the adverse effect that rudeness is having on the game. Is it not?

argument: if a reasonable number of outspoken individuals reach a particular conclusion, their conclusion must be founded.

 

example: a majority of united states officials, whose opinions are well heard above those of a regular jackoff, concluded that invading iraq would be a good idea. therefore, their conclusion was founded.

 

Tell me Blade, are you trying to argue that the game environment has NOT declined in recent years? That players are NOT more rude now than they used to be?

 

Because, if you are, then you're talking out of your ass. <_<

 

I've been crashed everywhere from DKs to KQ and the KBD over a span of five years. Nothing has changed really...

[TheAncient]

... not to be rude, but you (and others) should really learn to question and qualify universally accepted morals. people who blindly follow morals will and are greatly taken advantage of in any social context. stupidity in numbers is still stupidity.

 

Ok -- I LOL'd at "universally accepted morals". Morality has nothing to do with this.

 

It's about consideration of your social environment. It's about learning how and why you need to interact with other people. What you're purporting is akin to saying that it is far better to look out only for yourself than to consider the quality of life of everyone involved.

 

It is precisely THAT kind of thinking that creates the societal woes we have today. No one bothers looking out for anyone else. No one gives a damn about improving OTHER people's quality of life. All that matters is that they get that item they want, and then piss on the rest of world in the process.

 

Honestly -- when is society going to learn that we cannot crap all over each other all the time and expect our civilization to move forward?

 

morality = how society accepts your actions. is it not? in this case we are really discussing a matter of societal expectations and therefore morality.

 

and no. the "societal woes" we have today are not due to just one line of thought. that's kind of simple minded to think so... in fact, it's kind of annoying that you think that, as a random person over the internet, you have so easily and simply deciphered how to improve our civilization

 

in general, most people do care about others. when you reward someone for caring about others, they are very glad to help. this is why we have morals in the first place. society needs a system of rewarding people for helping others. we act together in order to mutually benefit each other.

 

however, there are situations in which the accepted moral standard bears little relevance to the situation, or in fact does not help the society. an example of this is crashing. the accepted moral standard is "first come first serve", but when the setting is so full there is never really a "first to come", you just end up essentially waiting in line forever. this is not fair to you, and there is no particular reason why you should wait instead of another person. in addiition, having the strongest person win the spots is in one way societally beneficial because it increases the supply of useful items coming into the game.

[Blyaunte]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

I always offer to share the spot. ALWAYS. :shame:

[TheAncient]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

I always offer to share the spot. ALWAYS. :shame:

 

then you're just a tool who society takes advantage of :thumbsup:

[Danqazmlp]

But in a perfect world it wouldn't. Should we help towards a better society than say it sucks and be with it? If you do the second, surely you are the tool. However, this is getting rather off topic (if you want to talk about society as a whole, use the Off-topic forum)

[Blyaunte]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

I always offer to share the spot. ALWAYS. :shame:

 

then you're just a tool who society takes advantage of :thumbsup:

 

LOL -- no, I am mother of three children who likewise play Runescape. I lead by example.

[TheAncient]

But in a perfect world it wouldn't. Should we help towards a better society than say it sucks and be with it? If you do the second, surely you are the tool. However, this is getting rather off topic (if you want to talk about society as a whole, use the Off-topic forum)

 

 

ideally yes. but the only realistic solutions to this issue, which we have already discussed, involve changing game mechanics, and jagex is highly unlikely to do so or care.

[Bladewing]

But in a perfect world it wouldn't. Should we help towards a better society than say it sucks and be with it? If you do the second, surely you are the tool. However, this is getting rather off topic (if you want to talk about society as a whole, use the Off-topic forum)

unstable equilibrium. in other words, it wouldn't work.

 

all it takes is one person crashing and goodbye stability - you will revert to the society driven by rational egoism (homo economicus).

[Troacctid]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

I always offer to share the spot. ALWAYS. :shame:

Good for you. You're setting an example for your kids by extending a token of generosity when you get in a conflict. Nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's an admirable sentiment. But please don't set your personal standards higher than anyone else expects of you and then admonish others for not adhering to the same code.

[Blyaunte]

But in a perfect world it wouldn't. Should we help towards a better society than say it sucks and be with it? If you do the second, surely you are the tool. However, this is getting rather off topic (if you want to talk about society as a whole, use the Off-topic forum)

 

 

ideally yes. but the only realistic solutions to this issue, which we have already discussed, involve changing game mechanics, and jagex is highly unlikely to do so or care.

 

Your mother never taught you "sharing"? :rolleyes:

[Danqazmlp]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

I always offer to share the spot. ALWAYS. :shame:

Good for you. You're setting an example for your kids by extending a token of generosity when you get in a conflict. Nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's an admirable sentiment. But please don't set your personal standards higher than anyone else expects of you and then admonish others for not adhering to the same code.

 

 

Just to add to that, should be also then ignore those who set their standards lower than the average, rather than letting them run amok?

 

At what level is our average and balance?

[TheAncient]

But in a perfect world it wouldn't. Should we help towards a better society than say it sucks and be with it? If you do the second, surely you are the tool. However, this is getting rather off topic (if you want to talk about society as a whole, use the Off-topic forum)

 

 

ideally yes. but the only realistic solutions to this issue, which we have already discussed, involve changing game mechanics, and jagex is highly unlikely to do so or care.

 

Your mother never taught you "sharing"? :rolleyes:

 

she did. then my dad taught me to think as well.

 

OT: to expect everyone to share is just unrealistic in this situation. why don't we all share houses, for example?

[Troacctid]

Ah yes -- how silly of me. It's ALL about YOU, isn't it?

 

It's about what YOU want, right? YOU must come FIRST before EVERYONE ELSE, because goodness knows that YOU are more important than the world at large, right?

 

Is this what civilization is reduced to? The point where self-indulgence takes precedence over decent human behaviour, and then gloats over it?

 

If so, then we're in one sad situation ... :unsure:

If you're so selfless, why do you have a problem with giving up a spot to a crasher? Practice what you preach and whatnot?

 

I always offer to share the spot. ALWAYS. :shame:

Good for you. You're setting an example for your kids by extending a token of generosity when you get in a conflict. Nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's an admirable sentiment. But please don't set your personal standards higher than anyone else expects of you and then admonish others for not adhering to the same code.

 

 

Just to add to that, should be also then ignore those who set their standards lower than the average, rather than letting them run amok?

 

At what level is our average and balance?

Clearly defined here.

[Blyaunte]

But in a perfect world it wouldn't. Should we help towards a better society than say it sucks and be with it? If you do the second, surely you are the tool. However, this is getting rather off topic (if you want to talk about society as a whole, use the Off-topic forum)

 

 

ideally yes. but the only realistic solutions to this issue, which we have already discussed, involve changing game mechanics, and jagex is highly unlikely to do so or care.

 

Your mother never taught you "sharing"? :rolleyes:

 

she did. then my dad taught me to think as well.

 

OT: to expect everyone to share is just unrealistic in this situation. why don't we all share houses, for example?

 

I see -- and your father taught you what, exactly? How to claw away at other children in order that you can attain the top of the crap heap?

 

Food, shelter, clothing -- these are the essentials of life. They can all be shared, and often are, given certain circumstances within the social environment.

 

Really -- are you comparing a compilation of pixels with the essentials of life? Do these pixels REALLY mean that much to you?

 

If so -- I think you REALLY need to re-consider your values. No. Really.

[Bladewing]

i believe you are the one comparing runescape monster spawns to real life.

 

PS: "pixels" argument gets you nowhere, because the pixels which obviously don't matter (trollface.png) shouldn't be a concern to you, either.