An Elitist's View on Crashing

[stonewall337]

This point was addressed a lot earlier in the thread. There are a lot of better alternative money makers - some which even train stats - for lower levels.

I agree with you that there are better alternative ways to making money. However, that doesn't mean that someone shouldn't or can't make money a slower, perhaps more inefficient way, does it?

 

Why not? There's no reason I should sacrifice my own preferences just so that some random person - regardless of level - can have the convenience of choosing between bad and worse options.

 

Obviously this would differ for people I know in real life.

Agreed. RS friends are exceptions. But I wouldn't give up thing IRL for people I have never meet before.

[Serpent Eye]

Because you DIDN'T. Your low stats PROVE you didn't train as much as me. If you want it, GET MY STATS. Then you can compete. Until then, you are crash bait. I don't recognize your right to "First come first serve" at a boss, and as such, I can, and will crash, if needed.

Well, I guess I'm just being technical.

 

There's a difference between someone working as hard as you and someone working as long a period of time as you.

 

Player 1 worked on his high stats for a year; Player 2 has worked on his lower stats for two months. It is entirely possible that they have both worked as hard as the other, Player 1 has just simply been at it for a longer period of time.

 

- - -

 

My views I guess are a bit limited on this subject.

 

I have always considered myself to be a skiller, so I've never encountered someone crashing me when I get the urge to do combat. It's just the elitist opinion that irks me, I guess. It's foreign to me, and it seems like the incorrect mindset to have.

 

If The Ancient stumbled upon some trees I was in the process of cutting, I would never dream of telling him to world hop and find another, simply based off the fact that I have nearly 15,000,000 more Woodcutting experience than he does.

 

I know it's not quite the same thing, but that's just how it's translating in my head. I just think everyone should have an equal shot.

[TheAncient]

 

If The Ancient stumbled upon some trees I was in the process of cutting, I would never dream of telling him to world hop and find another, simply based off the fact that I have nearly 15,000,000 more Woodcutting experience than he does.

 

 

I would agree in that scenario. Trees are easy to find so there's little to no economic incentive to crashing someone - only a psychological one of bullying. Also, a level 99 WC and a level 90 WCer basically have access to the same capital, so there's very little that makes one more qualified than another.

 

This is why monster hunting is an exception. Gear and levels actually make it more efficient for one person to use a spot rather than another. Also, monster hunting locations are typically much more crowded.

 

I'm not saying you should be mean in all situations. I am, however, saying that there's no need to be self-sacrificing.

[SirIzenhime]

Because you DIDN'T. Your low stats PROVE you didn't train as much as me. If you want it, GET MY STATS. Then you can compete. Until then, you are crash bait. I don't recognize your right to "First come first serve" at a boss, and as such, I can, and will crash, if needed.

Well, I guess I'm just being technical.

 

There's a difference between someone working as hard as you and someone working as long a period of time as you.

 

Player 1 worked on his high stats for a year; Player 2 has worked on his lower stats for two months. It is entirely possible that they have both worked as hard as the other, Player 1 has just simply been at it for a longer period of time.

 

- - -

 

My views I guess are a bit limited on this subject.

 

I have always considered myself to be a skiller, so I've never encountered someone crashing me when I get the urge to do combat. It's just the elitist opinion that irks me, I guess. It's foreign to me, and it seems like the incorrect mindset to have.

 

If The Ancient stumbled upon some trees I was in the process of cutting, I would never dream of telling him to world hop and find another, simply based off the fact that I have nearly 15,000,000 more Woodcutting experience than he does.

 

I know it's not quite the same thing, but that's just how it's translating in my head. I just think everyone should have an equal shot.

 

There is only two skills you can crash...mining, and hunter. You can rule out mining once someone hits 77 mining, leaving only 1 skill possible to crash.

You cannot compare crashing skillers to crashing bosses, it is far from the same thing.

Everyone does have an equal shot. The level 110 got in the boss room didn't he? By saying the level 130+ shouldn't crash him because he wasn't there first is telling that 130 he doesn't have an equal shot just because he was doing something else 30 minutes ago. Every person has an equal shot at every boss/resource in this game. Every person MUST level their skills higher if they want to stand a better chance of maintaining that resource. Just because someone leveled up before you, doesn't make them an elitist [bleep].

[Guest jrhairychest]

No, its 42 pages of somebody having a guilt trip and then needing other elistists to make him feel better.

Throw in some dog-eat-dog jargon or a good chapter from one of machiavelli's numerous dribbles and thats what this is.

I mean really who are you going to convince with that chart other than yourself that crashing is good for the game and your great player for doing it?

Just make sure to throw some insults when you crash so they get out sooner and never come back. :idea:

Say it like it is Golv :thumbup:. Question - What's there to be 'elite' about, playing RS?

 

 

I know it's not quite the same thing, but that's just how it's translating in my head. I just think everyone should have an equal shot.

 

Perhaps its because you've got manners, you don't live inside your own personal bubble of 'me me me', you are actually aware of what goes on around you and you've done puberty so you've nothing to prove to yourself or anyone else.

[SirIzenhime]

No, its 42 pages of somebody having a guilt trip and then needing other elistists to make him feel better.

Throw in some dog-eat-dog jargon or a good chapter from one of machiavelli's numerous dribbles and thats what this is.

I mean really who are you going to convince with that chart other than yourself that crashing is good for the game and your great player for doing it?

Just make sure to throw some insults when you crash so they get out sooner and never come back. :idea:

Say it like it is Golv :thumbup:. Question - What's there to be 'elite' about, playing RS?

 

 

I know it's not quite the same thing, but that's just how it's translating in my head. I just think everyone should have an equal shot.

 

Perhaps its because you've got manners, you don't live inside your own personal bubble of 'me me me', you are actually aware of what goes on around you and you've done puberty so you've nothing to prove to yourself or anyone else.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything, I just wanna make more money. So if crashing someone means I'll make more money, Yay for me.

[strilmus]

There is only two skills you can crash...mining, and hunter. You can rule out mining once someone hits 77 mining, leaving only 1 skill possible to crash.

You cannot compare crashing skillers to crashing bosses, it is far from the same thing.

Everyone does have an equal shot. The level 110 got in the boss room didn't he? By saying the level 130+ shouldn't crash him because he wasn't there first is telling that 130 he doesn't have an equal shot just because he was doing something else 30 minutes ago. Every person has an equal shot at every boss/resource in this game. Every person MUST level their skills higher if they want to stand a better chance of maintaining that resource. Just because someone leveled up before you, doesn't make them an elitist [bleep].

That's sort of a flawed argument, seeing as the 110 can't crash the 130 as easily. Next you'd probably see the "they should have been there earlier" argument and the "he should have leveled up" part. Yep. Not hypocritical in the least!

 

How far back does equality work?

 

By your logic, everybody who started playing the game at a later date than the ones before them all willingly gave up their equal rights to everything just because they started playing the game later.

 

And yet everybody has about the same average output overall. The higher leveled people have only been playing longer, but not harder. To say that they deserve everything entirely based on circumstance would be kind of ridiculous when it is very easy for them to change the terms of engagement for everybody below them. When they were leveling up and playing back then, they didn't have to deal with the same amount of of jerks who think they were entitled to everything, so really, if anything it was EASIER for them to gain money and levels without people constantly determining if they were worthy of playing.

 

Next you'll be telling us that all the people who were born later should deal with it and GTFO because they wasted their equal chance when they spent all that time growing up instead of playing RS.

 

But of course, this is the "official" stance of Jagex, so I guess you're right anyway

[stonewall337]

Exactly. He's actually being more rude by far then I am when I crash, or most people who've crashed me.

[Bladewing]

Next you'll be telling us that all the people who were born later should deal with it and GTFO because they wasted their equal chance when they spent all that time growing up instead of playing RS.

hate to break it to you, but in many countries (likely including your own), there are age requirements to vote (if applicable), drink, smoke, have sex, drive a car, run for office, etc.

[strilmus]

Yes, but when they're growing up, the people who were there earlier aren't telling them that they can't vote, drink, drive a car, have sex, or run for office because they were there first and should GTFO and then actively slow or prevent these people from aging.

[TheAncient]

Next you'll be telling us that all the people who were born later should deal with it and GTFO because they wasted their equal chance when they spent all that time growing up instead of playing RS.

 

I mean... are you going to argue it's unfair that phats were 30K back in the day?

[strilmus]

Not really. They're stupid pieces of paper that people think are valuable just because there's no way to make any more of them and they think having it makes them better than other people. That's perfectly fine for them.

 

On the other hand, this is a piece of game content that has no other requirements than being able to get there in the first place, and being able to survive it in order to gain its actual benefits. The competition is imposed by others at will.

 

What I have an issue with is people thinking that they're worth more than other people JUST BECAUSE they were there first, and thinking that means that they are RIGHT in being able to stop others from participating instead of just acknowledging the fact that it's unfair and stop trying to justify their actions.

 

I mean hell just because you're not exactly doing the actual right thing here and realizing that crashing goes against your philosophy that being there first gives you the rights doesn't mean that you should stop crashing!

 

Just don't say that you've actually earned anything when circumstance gave it to you.

 

EDIT: This goes for both people who don't like being crashed, and people who crash because they consider themselves to be the better person. Neither of you earned anything, and neither of you are justified in your actions.

 

The better person is the one who can learn to share reasonably and responsibly and not be a total [bleep] about it.

[TheAncient]

Not really. They're stupid pieces of paper that people think are valuable just because there's no way to make any more of them and they think having it makes them better than other people. That's perfectly fine for them.

You can't just disregard the luxury goods market, but that's off topic.

 

What I have an issue with is people thinking that they're worth more than other people JUST BECAUSE they were there first, and thinking that means that they are RIGHT in being able to stop others from participating instead of just acknowledging the fact that it's unfair and stop trying to justify their actions.

 

...

 

Just don't say that you've actually earned anything when circumstance gave it to you.

 

I'm really confused :mellow:. That argument could go both ways haha...

 

to your EDIT: what about people that don't share and aren't rude about it? what's wrong with not sharing? regardless of if we think it's "entitlement" or not, the thoughts matter less than the actions themselves

[Bladewing]

Yes, but when they're growing up, the people who were there earlier aren't telling them that they can't vote, drink, drive a car, have sex, or run for office because they were there first and should GTFO and then actively slow or prevent these people from aging.

uhh that's excatly what they say

 

"once you're age XX, then you can vote/drink/drive etc."

 

here's what we say

 

"once you are higher combat, then you will be able to hold your world"

 

the only people saying that "noobs should just quit it's my boss" are meanie heads

 

edit: that's not profanity, quit your grudge lol and stop editing my posts.

Edited October 29, 2010 by bladewing

[strilmus]

Well, see, when you do get to that level, and then come back, the guy's gonna be all like "go away, I was here first"

 

And I edited somewhere inbetween argument times to clarify that yes, that statement DOES go both ways, so just stop being silly for once and grow up for real

[xpx]

Yes, but when they're growing up, the people who were there earlier aren't telling them that they can't vote, drink, drive a car, have sex, or run for office because they were there first and should GTFO and then actively slow or prevent these people from aging.

The elitist view isn't that those lower levelled people should GTFO and not do anything they want. It's about the perspective of how you see the ownership of a training spot, either first comes first serve or survival of the fittest. Being higher levelled doesn't mean you deserve or own the spot any more than anyone else- you still have to fight for it.

 

You seem to be very much against anything where being the first should always have an edge, so why should a level 110 be left alone when soloing bandos- because he was already there? Or should he have to fight to retain his spot, just like others have done.

[strilmus]

Once again see my statement above.

[Blyaunte]

 

as you can see, the 138 has a dominant strategy to stay in the room and kill graardors. a rational level 110 will leave, because he knows the 138 is going to stay - in which case his best strategy is to leave and go make 1m/h instead of making no money (actually losing because of supplies, but whatever).

 

i don't know what you're trying to prove. we all know that 138s stay and 110s hop - isn't that what this thread is about?

 

Obviously, you have deliberately missed the point once again -- you're efforts at trying to justify your anti-social behaviour is amusing me, so I will keep pressing until you simply concede my point:

 

Game theory is about many things -- but mainly it's about using how one plays a game to predict how one will behave in the real world.

 

Obviously, your efforts here to exert your own ego speaks to something within your own personality, most likely a deficiency, that you need to overcome through game play. As such, you make an effort to enforce your own personal interests above those of others, by using your pixelated strengths to your advantage.

 

In short, you're compensating for something ... :rolleyes:

[TheAncient]

...justify your anti-social behaviour ...

 

...within your own personality, most likely a deficiency...

 

...In short, you're compensating for something ...

 

Quoted for irony

 

Again, instead of resorting to personal attacks, present a logical argument. That way we can reasonably and fairly assess your statement.

[Blyaunte]

i don't know what you're trying to prove. we all know that 138s stay and 110s hop - isn't that what this thread is about?

No, its 42 pages of somebody having a guilt trip and then needing other elistists to make him feel better.

Throw in some dog-eat-dog jargon or a good chapter from one of machiavelli's numerous dribbles and thats what this is.

I mean really who are you going to convince with that chart other than yourself that crashing is good for the game and your great player for doing it?

Just make sure to throw some insults when you crash so they get out sooner and never come back. :idea:

=D> :thumbup: :thumbsup: =D>

 

Gee -- I wish I had said that ...

[xpx]

Once again see my statement above.

that...?

 

In any case, as far as i can understand, you are arguing that just because some players have played longer and achieved better levels/equipment, they shouldn't be telling other people to leave their training/MH-ing spots. However, nothing of this kind is actually being discussed. What, however, is being detested, is what qualifies for possession of that very same spot- being there first or winning the spot(by beating out the competition). We don't think anyone really owns any training spot, thus if you want something, you have to fight for it. Yes, it might be rude on some levels, but because those people aren't doing it to be rude, we don't see it as a bad thing, and overall, it's good for the economy.

[Blyaunte]

There is [sic] only two skills you can crash...mining, and hunter ...

 

... and yet there are numerous other spots one can crash and people often do -- just to be spiteful and ignorant.

 

Pest Control is a perfect example of this -- there are a number of people who, while botting, place themselves in the landing craft in a non-designated Pest Control world, so that they don't get random events, and they can set up their auto-bots and alch-away undisturbed.

 

Heaven forbid that they should encounter a group of people who, you know, actually want to use the boat for it's designated purpose, like -- weird I know -- actually playing the mini-game. *gasp* :ohnoes:

 

But no -- when they encounter such groups, they merely sabotage the game until those players leave ...

 

This kind of thing just keeps going around and around and around ...

[strilmus]

And what I'm saying is that instead of fighting all the time or staying all the time and saying you have a right to fighting or staying, just rotate between activities so that everybody has a chance at it.

[SirIzenhime]

There is [sic] only two skills you can crash...mining, and hunter ...

 

... and yet there are numerous other spots one can crash and people often do -- just to be spiteful and ignorant.

 

Pest Control is a perfect example of this -- there are a number of people who, while botting, place themselves in the landing craft in a non-designated Pest Control world, so that they don't get random events, and they can set up their auto-bots and alch-away undisturbed.

 

Heaven forbid that they should encounter a group of people who, you know, actually want to use the boat for it's designated purpose, like -- weird I know -- actually playing the mini-game. *gasp* :ohnoes:

 

But no -- when they encounter such groups, they merely sabotage the game until those players leave ...

 

This kind of thing just keeps going around and around and around ...

 

That had nothing to do with the statement you quoted (and what's with the [sic] part?), I was talking about skilling skills, NOT combat skills and minigames. He was comparing crashing a boss, to crashing a tree, which doesn't work in this game. I stopped reading after your first line, because your post has no relevance to mine.

 

 

 

And what I'm saying is that instead of fighting all the time or staying all the time and saying you have a right to fighting or staying, just rotate between activities so that everybody has a chance at it.

 

Are you assuming crashers do NOTHING but bosses? No, I don't camp bandos, or DKs 24/7, everyone else has plenty of opportunity to go to that boss when I'm not there. But when I DO decide to go to that boss, why should I give up my time for someone else at bandos, when at most times...simply switching worlds is not an option.

 

I rotate my activities fine. If someone else happens to be doing the activity I want to at the time, and I decide to use the world they're in...guess they were just there at the wrong time.

[TheAncient]

And what I'm saying is that instead of fighting all the time or staying all the time and saying you have a right to fighting or staying, just rotate between activities so that everybody has a chance at it.

 

Like I said, I think this is unnecessarily self-sacrificing. I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing it, but it's just not behavior that economics would call rational

 

And whether or not we label it as "entitlement" or not bears little relevance to the actual validity of the action. Putting labels on things doesn't really change the moral validity of them