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TheAncient

An Elitist's View on Crashing

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The thing is, I've just been trying to explain why might isn't always right, and somehow this is interpreted as trolling when it's not exactly obvious that a fair competition has taken place when you step in and sock somebody in the gut, then explain to him how it was his right to do so and not to complain about it.

 

Odd fact; According to studies, 40% of all text on the internet (including emails, facebook, etc) is misinterpreted. This is usually because what people are saying is being filtered through their own emotions. If the reader is annoyed, it'll probably make them angry.

 

On Topic; Crashing isn't always deemed morally "right". But morals aren't worth much on RuneScape, no matter how much you try and claim it is. It doesn't make you richer, or faster, or better, or feel morally superior. Being "nice" only costs you, in time, effort, and money.

 

More crowded spots are bound to be crashed, there's no way to go about it. As I've stated before, until JaGex instances boss areas, we will always have competition. Direct, or indirect.

 

But I always like going back to the basics. Semantics. Crashing what, where, and how. For me, the word "crashing" means "fighting for a world, in order to obtain a limited resource". I would instantly visualize Graardor hitting a level 120 with Black Dhide Top, Vskirt, Bgs, Rune Boots and a Strength Skillcape with Piety and Supers.

 

It isn't "wrong" to crash at Bandos. Every world is full of maxed players, and it's impossible to get a world without crashing. It is arguably wrong to crash a team of level 80's at KBD on a LS world, because you can get a better world within 2 hops, as bladewing has pointed out.

 

We haven't explored the ethics of crashing mining spots, pre LRC. Is it right, or wrong, to 'steal' a world at a mining spot?

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General knowledge is not general!

 

Everybody does know that those spots are crowded, but not everybody knows that it is acceptable to take those spots from each other when they have raised to have manners

 

(yes I am jabbing you in the ribs with that one but please do not overreact)

 

This is why Jagex keeps messing up, and perhaps we should be trying to help them understand what is going on rather than berate them for it

 

(as much as I enjoy it)

 

There just isn't a good outlet for that to happen and I think we could be doing more to extend that olive branch

 

Also really I am trying to figure out a way to reconcile the varying interests so that we don't have to keep yelling at each other all the time, so while it is in my self interest I am really thinking about interests of others in general

 

But I have to ask

 

Do you crash and get crashed because you are driven by this kind of competition, or because you are just doing it to earn more stuff

If you don't have the general knowledge of something, you simply don't post. It's really that simple. If i don't know the answer to a question in H&A, i don't go bladdering about what i do know. The other option is to educate yourself(which you didn't do).

 

The answer to the question has long been answered by me in this thread. If you want it, you'll have to work for it.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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General knowledge is not general!

 

Everybody does know that those spots are crowded, but not everybody knows that it is acceptable to take those spots from each other when they have raised to have manners

it would astound me to meet anyone with the requirements to kill graardor once who has never been "crashed" at popular spots like: goblin house, cow pen, chicken pen, hill giants, lesser demons, green dragons, mining ore, etc.

 

if they have never experienced the norm of crashing in runescape then they likely botted or purchased their account - such players receive no pity from me.

 

Do you crash and get crashed because you are driven by this kind of competition, or because you are just doing it to earn more stuff

i don't even do bandos because it's actually not that good money compared to DKs or TDs, and ridiculously crowded. i don't crash at TDs. i only crash at DKs if there are no open worlds in the narrow population range i need to maximize kills and minimize risks (there are usually only 2-5 worlds in this margin, so i actually will check them all before i crash). solo mages can use a higher population world which cannon tribrids cannot use as effectively.

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Sup Guys,

 

 

I'd like to say a few things.

 

First off this is a topic that is nice and grey. Theirs plenty of people who feel crashing is legitimate in 2010 depending on the time and place. Depending on the circumstances, I am pro-crashing. (I'll crash anything but a clan war, deathmatch or boss room) Combat spots? Fair game to me, and i'll raid them.

 

 

People will NEVER agree with each other on this, as many people feel it's evil, satanic and dishonrable and to an extent just like anything in American politics - you can create an argument for why it's the downfall of america (runescape).

 

 

That being said, Heated discussions are good - I like heated discussions, they draw me into posts but theres no need to argue side A or B is trolling, Most people are intentionally thick on morality issues as you are not debating logic but morals that they live by and thats not going to change in one post or 15 pages more than likely.

 

Let's keep this civil, professional and respectful.

 

If a post gets removed, and you feel it's moved incorrectly, PM me or Tripsis or another admin and we will investigate it. of the last 10 or so removed, we restored 2.

 

~Das


"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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If this thread wasn't here at all and you had continued to proceed by this system without trying to justify it to people with limited knowledge and expect them to understand by repeated negative interactions, I wouldn't have attempted to figure out what it was you were trying to say with my limited knowledge and subsequently learned what it is you were getting at.

 

In short, nothing would have changed and no growth would have occurred.

 

We could keep things more civil from now on, though, right?


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The thing is, I've just been trying to explain why might isn't always right, and somehow this is interpreted as trolling when it's not exactly obvious that a fair competition has taken place when you step in and sock somebody in the gut, then explain to him how it was his right to do so and not to complain about it.

So it's okay for low-levels to crash high-levels, but not for high-levels to crash low-levels?

 

I've said this at least three or four times already, but boss rooms are public areas. If I'm killing the KBD and you walk in to do the same, you have just as much right to be there as I do, and I will respect that right and expect you to do the same for me. It doesn't matter who was there first. We're both here now, and either one of us has the right to choose whether or not to hop worlds. I will respect that right as well and expect you to do the same for me. If you don't want to hop, and I don't want to hop, then I guess we're fighting for that KBD spawn, and it's your decision as much as mine.

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I didn't say it was okay for low levels to crash high levels.

 

In fact I am against crashing of any kind! (In the sense that you are imposing your will on somebody else who has not agreed to those terms.)

 

But really as long as this is as mutual as you say it is (and that everybody is aware of this social contract) then it is perfectly fine!

 

You just run into problems when people don't understand why this situation should exist in the first place.


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I didn't say it was okay for low levels to crash high levels.

 

In fact I am against crashing of any kind!

 

But really as long as this is as mutual as you say it is (and that everybody is aware of this social contract) then it is perfectly fine!

 

You just run into problems when people don't understand why this situation should exist in the first place.

 

Please, propose a solution to crashing then. Remember folks, we don't live in an ideal world. It must be a practical JaGex update too.

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The problem with that is that you folks seem to be entirely against instances and since we can't have that, it is not very practical for Jagex to be able to make enough unique content to satisfy the demand without ending up just replacing one demand with another or not living up to your expectations.


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i at least am okay with instances :unsure:

 

it'll drive the prices of loot down, but i think that's actually probably okay.

 

ps: saying "you folks" is very antagonistic and doesn't help with the whole "come together/let it be" beatles soundtrack you are proposing (lol), since it really only strengthens the ingroup/outgroup bias we have all seen (but i do think it's okay for us to be civil)

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Well, considering that the demand is really outstripping the supply by a huge deal, I think people would be okay with a hit in overall profit if people were able to just be able to participate in the activity in the first place, because if you end up not being able to do it at all, that's basically zero profit for you.


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IMO, the only practical solution to crashing is to create a variety of bosses, both instanced and non-instanced, and we need new ones every so often. If we got ten new bosses tomorrow, then one or two more every year, that'd probably do the trick.

 

As I've said before, you can't really just make everything instanced, as the server load would be enormous. They just need to spread the players thin.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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So, how many times has DG crashed the server?


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I've said this at least three or four times already, but boss rooms are public areas.

 

 

I agree and disagree with this.

 

I agree in the fact that slayer spots like gargs, demons, (who kills cave horrors anyway) or whatever that's not a boss is a public spot in a battle for resources/training spots. I pay the same price (probably less since i'm locked in at the old rate) - I'm spending my spare time like you - all else being equal it's a fair fierce competetion for resources - it's up to you if you want to move or not, I've played since 2001 before the make x macro's so what reduced xp is to me - it's not the same to you.

 

As far as bosses go - thats just a douche move. most (DK, GWD, divine shield guy) all of those require a substantial amount of money to gear up to fight and at that point, it becomes dishonorable to waste someone's time and money. Fighting for resources/spawns is fair game as those do not require brew/restores or an actual costly setup.

 

I think using the KBD is a poor example, as no one really farms it for money/drops and it's more of a "fun event" for friends - and in that case, you should switch servers or go train slayer or fish or mine because if you're so poor you're using KBD to make money...Ouch sucks to have your account.


"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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So, how many times has DG crashed the server?

 

That's not the right question to ask. Is Jagex able to handle the equivalent of a second dungeoneering skill on every LS world?


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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So there would be the same amount of people doing DG and bosses?

 

But then they wouldn't be occupying the load on the main server.

 

Realistically Jagex can't really make ten boss creatures right now without creating a bunch of new drops, or just giving all of them old drops


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As far as bosses go - thats just a douche move. most (DK, GWD, divine shield guy) all of those require a substantial amount of money to gear up to fight and at that point, it becomes dishonorable to waste someone's time and money. Fighting for resources/spawns is fair game as those do not require brew/restores or an actual costly setup.

 

Aren't they then wasting your time and money by being in a spot you could easily occupy with inferior gear/stats/summons? What if you've looked for ages and couldn't find a world? If there are a fixed amount of bosses, and all of them are packed (which is often the case at Bandos), you have no choice. You said it yourself--it's a huge investment of time and money. If you choose to handicap yourself...great, fine. Would it be better if we didn't crash? Absolutely. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Do we have any other option? No. And who do we have to thank for that? Jagex.

 

So at the end of the day, if you get crashed, who should you really be mad at...?


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So there would be the same amount of people doing DG and bosses?

 

But then they wouldn't be occupying the load on the main server.

 

Realistically Jagex can't really make ten boss creatures right now without creating a bunch of new drops, or just giving all of them old drops

 

When I say new bosses, I mean completely new bosses. New drops, new boss mechanics... everything. Consider world 117: It's PACKED full of people dungeoneering. The server is so overloaded that it sometimes take three to five seconds for my clicks to register. I would really rather not have to purposely avoid LS worlds when I'm NOT boss hunting due to server lag.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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But then that's just an issue of how many servers they have.


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But then that's just an issue of how many servers they have.

 

What's your point?


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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Everybody does know that those spots are crowded, but not everybody knows that it is acceptable to take those spots from each other when they have raised to have manners

 

In some cases "manners" won't get you anywhere.

 

Some spots are crowded for a reason, because they are such good spots, if you just hopped everytime someone came youd spend 90% of your time hopping.


O.O

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But then that's just an issue of how many servers they have.

 

What's your point?

That it would be pretty easy to fund more servers when you can fund an entire convention for free?


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But then that's just an issue of how many servers they have.

 

What's your point?

That it would be pretty easy to fund more servers when you can fund an entire convention for free?

 

They would have to make a LOT more servers. While I'm sure they could afford it, they are a business and their goal is to make money. They're not going to take the expensive and more complicated approach.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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But then that's just an issue of how many servers they have.

 

What's your point?

It's general knowledge that when you have a crowded spot, increasing the number of servers would fix or alleviate the problem, however, who is going to pay for that...? Certainly not jagex, i believe. They've been going the opposite way in the last few years, as far as i know.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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So if we can't have instances, then at least we could increase the amount of the same type of bosses on each server, but just make them slightly different in appearance to each other so that we don't end dealing with really strange character cloning problems.


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