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An Elitist's View on Crashing

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Okay. Your interpretation of my post has no basis in reality. I'm asking people to educate themselves on how inundated bosses like Graardor really are. You're asking people to continue living in a bubble world where nothing goes wrong and people should just get along and be happy. It's a nice sentiment, but when you actually feel like going out and making the big bucks (solo MHing), you have to realize that Jagex is essentially forcing us to fight over scraps. I'll use the same analogy I did earlier: Blame Jagex for throwing a single steak to a ravenous crowd of players.

 

EDIT:

 

Okay really stop using the trolling argument on either side. It's just another excuse and it's not dignified at all.

 

If people really don't want a single player game, and they're only crashing other people because there really is no other way to do it, then we need to get a massive petition saying that we want instances at that area so that everybody isn't forced to do it that way.

 

Or we can compromise with each other.

 

Or we can just keep going like this and wreck everything that humanity has been working towards for since the existence of civilization.

 

The solution is not to instance boss areas -- the solution is to give us more options. You can't instance every boss area for both teams and soloists. That'd be like creating a second dungeoneering skill.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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If it was easier then why isn't everybody seeking to team whenever possible?

 

My argument is that even though the game is flawed, it does not make your own actions entirely unaccountable if there is a better way, and not looking for a better way is the same thing as deciding that there are no more flaws left.

Yeah, it's so easy killing edgeville men, i have no idea why people aren't doing that...

 

And really, the best thing i can do when i want to make money by killing graar is to solo and crash lower levels to find servers. Why? firstly, because i can't be crashed myself, and secondly, because i can make the most money while having the most fun while doing it. Sure, tough luck for the newb who gets crashed, but it's not really my first concern. There is no equilibrium of crashing when it comes to the elite(which is the significant reason for this thread, some people are seemingly in a win-win situation when you break it down).

 

Okay really stop using the trolling argument on either side. It's just another excuse and it's not dignified at all.

 

If people really don't want a single player game, and they're only crashing other people because there really is no other way to do it, then we need to get a massive petition saying that we want instances at that area so that everybody isn't forced to do it that way.

 

Or we can compromise with each other.

 

Or we can just keep going like this and wreck everything that humanity has been working towards for since the existence of civilization.

Firstly, only lower levels would realistically win in a situation like that, so there is no incentive for someone with maxed levels/gear to go with it.

 

Secondly, petitions like that don't work. If a couple of hundred 85 slayer couldn't stop whips falling rapidly, this has no chance in hell of working. You've just got to adapt to the system.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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Ok, we seem to come down on two different sides:

 

Those who think 1.) First come First serve is a right and 2.) Levels are irrelevant in who is allowed to kill a boss

 

and those who think 1.) Due to there being no rules to the contrary, as well as a lack of resources, in addition to not accepting the theory of "right through first come first serve", the ability to kill a boss comes down to either no one else taking said boss, or else the ability to either take the boss for yourself, or prevent others to take a boss. And 2.) Whilst there is proper behavior, as well as good manners, in a situation where neither side can "own" a boss, then its is the responsibility of the lower level player to either fight for the spawn, or hop.

 

Therefore, it is my stance that I reject the argument of "first come first serve" as not only be illogical, but also as being impractical and unenforceable currently, and as such determine that a more important factor is both ability and levels, with gear being a less important factor at certain bosses, but a more important factor at others. As such, after due process to find a world, if unable to do so, I will exercise my ability, and although some may disagree I will claim my right, to take a boss, or set of bosses (DKS, TDS)

 

As such, although I view the crashing for "lulz" or to be an ass as reprehensible, much as I would view not blessing a grave of a teammate at GWD, I do not view crashing out of necessity, or practicality, as having any negative bearing on either my in game enjoyment, my real life morality or character.

 

May it thus be known that I will crash if necessary at some bosses, will fight to defend my spawn if practical, and will not crash to be an ass as a rule.

 

In addition, I find a person of similar levels, gear, and skill to me trying to crash me as being a futile gesture, as we will most likely split kills fairly evenly, and thus both parties should either decide who hops, or split kills.

 

I do make exception to whom I crash if they are someone I am friends with, as well.

 

 

I'm still interested in why no one on the opposing (Never crash side) refuses to post their own stance, and if they ever make exceptions.


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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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I think one of the biggest problems of Runescape, is that besides activities and Dungeoneering, it is geared toward soloing. What Jagex needs to do is create more boss monsters like Corporal best, that require teams for the most part. I think boss monsters that are extremely hard solo, but not so hard with a team would move a lot of people away from GWD, assuming said boss drops something great.

 

Like a lot of people said, with the GE, you can turn everything off, and basically play the game solo. I agree that soloing is fun, but tbh most of RS is geared towards solo, when a lot should be redirected towards community.

 

Either that or Jagex needs to make more Spawns.


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At the moment, there are more options, it's just that nobody wants to use those options and just tries to crash each other at the same spots.

 

If it's money you want, I see nobody at cave horrors despite the fact that masks are about 1 million a pop and you can kill them pretty fast at almost no personal risk at that level.

 

If it's experience you want, there's plenty of armored zombies for you to lay the smackdown on.

 

Instances are the fastest solution I can figure while Jagex can develop even more content, but the problem of the matter is that once that content comes out everybody will want to do that instead since that content will most likely outclass the previous content.

 

If you don't want instances, and you want more options, but you don't want those options to be the same (instances), but those options would then outclass the previous options and then become the "only" options or be less viable and then subsequently ignored, then WHAT DO YOU WANT


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At the moment, there are more options, it's just that nobody wants to use those options and just tries to crash each other at the same spots.

 

If it's money you want, I see nobody at cave horrors despite the fact that masks are about 1 million a pop and you can kill them pretty fast at almost no personal risk at that level.

 

If it's experience you want, there's plenty of armored zombies for you to lay the smackdown on.

 

Why is it the 138's responsibility to go to cave horrors or armored zombies? If the 110 wants money or experience, he can go to cave horrors or armored zombies (and he needs the experience more than the 138, obviously).


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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At the moment, there are more options, it's just that nobody wants to use those options and just tries to crash each other at the same spots.

 

If it's money you want, I see nobody at cave horrors despite the fact that masks are about 1 million a pop and you can kill them pretty fast at almost no personal risk at that level.

 

If it's experience you want, there's plenty of armored zombies for you to lay the smackdown on.

 

Instances are the fastest solution I can figure while Jagex can develop even more content, but the problem of the matter is that once that content comes out everybody will want to do that instead since that content will most likely outclass the previous content.

 

If you don't want instances, and you want more options, but you don't want those options to be the same (instances), but those options would then outclass the previous options and then become the "only" options or be less viable and then subsequently ignored, then WHAT DO YOU WANT

One thing i've seen from your posts is a genera lack of factual knowledge of runescape(which really degrades some of your arguments). Cave horrors are not a good moneymaker.

 

In any case, bandos being VERY crowded is a MAJOR reason people resort to other options like frost dragons, TD's, Armadyl and DK's, so it's not like there aren't any other options, it's just that if you want to kill bandos efficiently, you HAVE to crash. And really, it's not like the lower levels have the only option of killing bandos either- it's just what they choose to do. If they don't want to be crashed, please, kill frost dragons, they are never crowded, thus why the highest level players believe crowded spots should be competed for. If you don't like the competition, you don't have to solo bandos.


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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I've just removed some unnecessary flaming posts in this thread. I'm going to make a few quick reminders.

 

RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS. Don't flame, call names or belittle people who have a different opinion to you.

 

Don't just call everything trolling. If something IS trolling or inflammatory then DO NOT RESPOND TO IT. Report it! DON'T RESPOND. Responding makes things far more difficult to deal with because things get dragged on and muddied and no definitive action can be taken. It also weakens your report, when you finally do, if you don't report something until you've made several replies to it.

 

So please, remember the rules.


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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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I've just removed some unnecessary flaming posts in this thread. I'm going to make a few quick reminders.

 

RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS. Don't flame, call names or belittle people who have a different opinion to you.

 

Don't just call everything trolling. If something IS trolling or inflammatory then DO NOT RESPOND TO IT. Report it! DON'T RESPOND. Responding makes things far more difficult to deal with because things get dragged on and muddied and no definitive action can be taken. It also weakens your report, when you finally do, if you don't report something until you've made several replies to it.

 

So please, remember the rules.

Opinions are one thing, logical fallicies another.


Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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Now that everyone who is pro-crashing has had their posts deleted, let's see if we can get this argument on track. :rolleyes:


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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Okay, so really, if this is about crashing one particular spot, and if this is inherently about competition for killing bandos and not the distribution of a valuable resource, then by all means go for it

 

Because I could have used "An Elitist's View on Crashing Bandos" as the title.

 

Otherwise you would attract attention from a lot of other groups who would not understand what you were talking about if you weren't being highly specific and to the point about it

 

Because up to that point nobody really explained that part of the deal and thought you were just talking about overcrowding everything in general, since it is also an issue at other training/moneymaking spots


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I fail to see how blade's post was flaming. But then again, looks like someone with more power came over and crashed the thread instead of finding a new one. So indirectly supporting the point of this thread............hmm

 

Not only that, but several of my posts -- posts in which I put a lot of effort constructing my arguments rationally and logically -- were deleted while the far more inflammatory posts were passed over. Furthermore, Dan and Strilmus's posts were untouched despite the fact that neither of them can say anything other than "but it's not nice!" which is definitely flamebaiting considering how many times that god-awful argument has been debunked.

 

I c wut u did dere.

 

I will not be surprised in the least if my post gets deleted and this one doesn't.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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I fail to see how blade's post was flaming. But then again, looks like someone with more power came over and crashed the thread instead of finding a new one. So indirectly supporting the point of this thread............hmm

 

Not only that, but several of my posts -- posts in which I put a lot of effort constructing my arguments rationally and logically -- were deleted while the far more inflammatory posts were passed over. Furthermore, Dan and Strilmus's posts were untouched despite the fact that neither of them can say anything other than "but it's not nice!" which is definitely flamebaiting considering how many times that god-awful argument has been debunked.

 

I c wut u did dere.

 

I will not be surprised in the least if my post gets deleted and this one doesn't.

 

They were almost all deleted at different times.

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Okay this is the last post regarding this matter.

Any posts after this regarding deletion of posts, people being 'trolls' and feeling unfairly treated will be removed without hesitation and regard for anything else in the post.

 

If you have a serious issue with forum moderation then talk to the administration, they're there to help deal with these matters. If you just want to whine then keep it to yourself because it's not what this thread is for.


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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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My main issue is that you are snapping at others who do not quite understand that there are other alternatives for people who did not want competition, and that it looked like you were forcing them into an arrangement of such

 

And that the initial post did nothing to address that and didn't really accomplish anything which just kind of steamrolled into confusion


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Okay, so really, if this is about crashing one particular spot, and if this is inherently about competition for killing bandos and not the distribution of a valuable resource, then by all means go for it

 

Because I could have used "An Elitist's View on Crashing Bandos" as the title.

 

Otherwise you would attract attention from a lot of other groups who would not understand what you were talking about if you weren't being highly specific and to the point about it

 

Because up to that point nobody really explained that part of the deal and thought you were just talking about overcrowding everything in general, since it is also an issue at other training/moneymaking spots

It is explained in the first post that there are really only three(bandos, td's and dk's) places where you would have any problems with crashing and there are ALWAYS better alternatives for them when you can get crashed. As i said, you should focus on some basic knowledge(before you get into heated debates posting false information).


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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You really can't blame any of us for being snappy and impatient when EVERY. SINGLE. THING. YOU. SAY. has been debunked many, many times in this thread. Just read the thread. That's all you need to do. If people would read the thread before posting, it would be dead already.


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He didn't say those were the only three spots

 

And those are not the only spots that you can be crashed at!

 

But my main argument is that competition isn't the only way

 

But in this case if training at Bandos/DK/TD's is ONLY about competition then it is perfectly fine

 

Just don't expect everybody else to understand right away when isn't explicitly stated

 

Or to sympathize when you've just taken something from them by force


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He didn't say those were the only three spots

 

And those are not the only spots that you can be crashed at!

 

But my main argument is that competition isn't the only way

 

But in this case if training at Bandos/DK/TD's is ONLY about competition then it is perfectly fine

 

Just don't expect everybody else to understand right away when isn't explicitly stated

 

Or to sympathize when you've just taken something from them by force

Thank you captain obvious? DUH they are normally not happy.


Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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But in this case if training at Bandos/DK/TD's is ONLY about competition then it is perfectly fine

you will also see competition derived crashing at team saradomin and armadyl godwars.

 

that's the only type of crashing that i think any of the "pro-crashers" (as much as anyone can be a proponent - i mostly see it as the lesser of two bad options) have been defending.

 

very few people will say that a 138 crashing a team of 80s in a lootshare world at the KBD is defensible. although some will say it's okay as it's not against the rules of the game (which i agree with), most would say it's kind of a mean-spirited thing to do (which i agree with). if i were in that situation at the KBD, i would hop worlds because a) i know that i can find a good world in one or two hops and b) i know that being in a lootshare world increases my odds of being crashed by a duo of 135s.

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But in this case if training at Bandos/DK/TD's is ONLY about competition then it is perfectly fine

you will also see competition derived crashing at team saradomin and armadyl godwars.

 

that's the only type of crashing that i think any of the "pro-crashers" (as much as anyone can be a proponent - i mostly see it as the lesser of two bad options) have been defending.

 

very few people will say that a 138 crashing a team of 80s in a lootshare world at the KBD is defensible. although some will say it's okay as it's not against the rules of the game, most would say it's kind of a mean-spirited thing to do.

Very well put.


Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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The thing is, I've just been trying to explain why might isn't always right, and somehow this is interpreted as trolling when it's not exactly obvious that a fair competition has taken place when you step in and sock somebody in the gut, then explain to him how it was his right to do so and not to complain about it.


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He didn't say those were the only three spots

 

And those are not the only spots that you can be crashed at!

 

But my main argument is that competition isn't the only way

 

But in this case if training at Bandos/DK/TD's is ONLY about competition then it is perfectly fine

 

Just don't expect everybody else to understand right away when isn't explicitly stated

You can't always mention everything, that's where general knowledge on runescape comes in. Bandos is heavily crowded, TD's and DK's are usually OK(not having to crash). Armadyl and Frost dragons are empty(i think solo corp is usually empty too). All of those can earn around 4m an hour. If you don't like competition, you adapt to that, not run a petition for the community to adapt to you.

 

And well, i'm completely fine with you agreeing to the fact that some of the more crowded spots should be about competition and vice versa. It's really what any of us have been trying to say- lower levels don't have to compete for the spots if they don't like getting crashed when they could make more money doing other things.

 

The thing is, I've just been trying to explain why might isn't always right, and somehow this is interpreted as trolling when it's not exactly obvious that a fair competition has taken place when you step in and sock somebody in the gut, then explain to him how it was his right to do so and not to complain about it.

 

We don't all think might is always right, but in some situations, it's necessary. Nothing more to it really...


First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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The thing is, I've just been trying to explain why might isn't always right, and somehow this is interpreted as trolling when it's not exactly obvious that a fair competition has taken place when you step in and sock somebody in the gut, then explain to him how it was his right to do so and not to complain about it.

don't you think it's a bit hyperbolic to say that being crashed at an unbelievably crowded spot is equivalent to being "sock[ed] in the gut"? surely everyone who has ever even tried to kill graardor knows how ridiculously crowded it is? using simple deduction they should have realized that there is a high chance that they would run into another player fighting for the same turf.

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General knowledge is not general!

 

Everybody does know that those spots are crowded, but not everybody knows that it is acceptable to take those spots from each other when they have raised to have manners

 

(yes I am jabbing you in the ribs with that one but please do not overreact)

 

This is why Jagex keeps messing up, and perhaps we should be trying to help them understand what is going on rather than berate them for it

 

(as much as I enjoy it)

 

There just isn't a good outlet for that to happen and I think we could be doing more to extend that olive branch

 

Also really I am trying to figure out a way to reconcile the varying interests so that we don't have to keep yelling at each other all the time, so while it is in my self interest I am really thinking about interests of others in general

 

But I have to ask

 

Do you crash and get crashed because you are driven by this kind of competition, or because you are just doing it to earn more stuff


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