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What happened to this community?


gremmy

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Most of this was actually part of an article I was writing for the Tip.it Times... Parts of it may be featured there still in the future if I and the Tip.it staff see fit...

 

This thread shows exactly what the problem is with "the community" as it got noticed by the original poster as well as others around these boards... Obtaurian's comment of "lol 70 range" is a perfect symptom...

 

First, I can personally testify that stonewall doesn't know what he is talking about "staff/staff-friend interaction"-wise as I have been reprimanded on several occasions by the staff (asuming you call times people staff and/or friend of the staff, neither of which are neccisarily true)...

 

Stonewall hit 2 out of 4 on his first post in this thread. Yes those achievements were bigger then, and we do tend to remember only the good stuff, and surpress the bad...

But how many people these days get a 99 in a tough skill and are called no-lifers? The bar for something to be an actual achievement is set ever higher, and when someone finally makes the jump they get ridiculed for it as if they had only wasted their efforts... You cant win...

 

On top of that, I think we've hit something of a critical mass... Stonewall was also right that usually friends are the only ones doing the congrats... Runescape has been around for quite a while now, and the playerbase only gets bigger (not counting bots)....

While there are still groups of friends, a lot of those have devolved into today's teams... This is because not everyone can keep an interest in the game as long as everyone else... On top of that, communication has become too easy...

For those that do not use mIRC, the Clanchat system allows us to message everyone at once in game, where in older times you had to gather everyone on one world at the same place AND get them to shut up, or type the same message dozens of times... In short, being friends with mutliple people took a very real effort, with very real rewards as a result as you'd be a lot more selective on who you'd befriend... Trade limits and lend system also gave us a safetynet that, if we went without, we'd filter good friends from not-so-good friends... In contrast with today, you'd be hard pressed to find a group that is as close and as friendly, dare I say brotherly, with one another...

 

What happens then is that everyone stops using one of the M's in MMORPG, and it really becomes a Massive SINGLE-player Online Role Playing Game... Less people to talk to = less talk... Which has as a result that the trolls(*) now seem much much more prominent...

 

Kimberly, the difference between today's community and that of two years ago is only that people are getting fed up with the situation as it is... The real time difference between the community now, and the community we all hearken back to, is the one before the Grand Exchange to some extent, but mainly before ClanChat and themed worlds for example... As I said, people dont HAVE to put in the effort, they just go to the place and world and join in...

 

(*)Now, as I said about trolls... An online philosopher (I'm a fan) made this video that explains it better then I ever could... It's long, but worth every second...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzuXLwQXmRg

Skip the first 30 seconds, it's irrelevant...

 

Now, a number of people on this forum fall into this category, and some are definitly worse then others... Tip.it's definition of trolls obviously is not the same here, but the goal of those people is the same; get a reaction out of you whatever the cost... So I also agree with Stormveritas here... The cause might be a different one, but the result is the same...

 

So you want to ban people who follow the rules because they're not likable? It doesn't work that way.

 

Just put them on your ignore list. Not a hard concept. And if they are breaking the rules? Report them. They will get banned eventually if they persist. But moderators take great lengths to try to educate users rather than just slap them on the wrist and put them in the naughty corner. It's a commendable effort, but it means the community has to work with them to help them. Outright shunning/ostracizing is not the answer to this problem either...not in the long term, anyway.

 

'Not likeable' is not what Stormveritas meant... Its the continues spreading of a negative vibe that ultimately poisons everyone's fun in staying here... The problem Stormveritas tried to express is that this spreading of the negative vibe can be done well within the rules of Tip.it, and I am afraid he is right, and I do agree with him there too... These people cannot be reported (well they can but nothing happens), and if left unchecked we'd see the good people leave sooner then the bad ones get forced out or re-educated...

 

 

In real life, youtube has taken the place of the old pillory, but we do not have such a place on Tif, as we cannot name individuals in a bad light... All we can do is report them, and watch em slip through the cracks of the rulebook...

 

Killerred is right though that it is not just Tip.it's community, but pretty much everywhere for the same reasons I stated earlier... Odd enough, this is the very place where Clans, by becoming the beacon of sanity and reason, could make their comeback...

 

Now, a few of you will probably feel that I am calling you a troll, but if you do, you probably are not one as the troll does not know when it trolls (see first page for a few prime examples)...

 

Feel free to discuss my points made here, but I do not intent on visiting this thread again as I can already see where it is heading... Peace...

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It is extremely difficult to follow your writing, Stormrage, so if I miss something you'll have to excuse me.

 

Kimberly, the difference between today's community and that of two years ago is only that people are getting fed up with the situation as it is...

 

I think between the two of us, we have explained the greater picture that I think we both know of but didn't quite put into words. We are on the same page.

 

The real time difference between the community now, and the community we all hearken back to, is the one before the Grand Exchange to some extent, but mainly before ClanChat and themed worlds for example... As I said, people dont HAVE to put in the effort, they just go to the place and world and join in...

 

What are you even talking about?

 

'Not likeable' is not what Stormveritas meant... Its the continues spreading of a negative vibe that ultimately poisons everyone's fun in staying here...

 

I know exactly what Veritas meant. You don't have to defend Veritas, I'm sure he's capable of handling that himself. Although I think it was rather insightful of him to find the cause of his displeasure with the community, the way him and many others seem to be going about 'solving' this is all wrong. If the people are too negative...ignore them. If they're breaking rules...report them. The point remains. And if they're not breaking the rules, there's little else you can do aside from contacting an administrator.

 

The past few months of the same fighting over and over again is proof of this. The phrase 'ur doin it wrong' never fit a better scenario.

 

All we can do is report them, and watch em slip through the cracks of the rulebook...

 

You're assuming the people aren't being punished. Why?

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I promised myself not to return to this thread, but since something is unclear I will only explain that...

 

Everything else does not require and answer from me for various reasons...

 

I said

The real time difference between the community now, and the community we all hearken back to, is the one before the Grand Exchange to some extent, but mainly before ClanChat and themed worlds for example... As I said, people dont HAVE to put in the effort, they just go to the place and world and join in...

 

Before updates such as ClanChat, Grand Exchange, Themed Worlds, Trade Limits and Lending system, each and every one of us was a helluva lot more careful who we'd call friends, and it also took a lot more time and effort to make and keep good friends...

 

Compare it to today where:

- you jump on world 6, join a BA team and you're on your way to finish the waves

- dont have to really know the person you're lending your whip to, as you know it'll return eventually

- dont have to bother messaging everyone on your friendslist as you can use the clanchat system to message a lot of people at once

- etc

 

You dont need friends to succeed in this game anymore...

 

Believe it or not, but "player interaction"-wise we long back to those days where a friend was more then someone on your friends list... THAT is what has changed the community from both the outside and the inside...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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I think it's not an issue of anti-efficiency (although that indeed is one of the problems). The main issue is people with personal issues with other posters. Face it... with personal attacks come MASSIVE flame wars that derail the topic by a large scale.

 

If mods and others don't chill out these flame wars, this forum will become a disaster. And right now, I can already see personal vendettas against certain other posters... Stonewall vs the staff, for example.

 

(I'm not against efficient posters in any way. It's just when they FLAME others, that's when it becomes a problem.)

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You dont need friends to succeed in this game anymore...

 

You never needed your friends to advance in the game, only to advance quickly and in an enjoyable manner. And player interaction is being forced upon us now as a necessity rather than an option as time progresses. CW teams, GWD teams, clans, dg'ing teams, they're all thriving. And each of those is their own community. While interaction might exist in a diminished capacity, it is still extremely important in day to day gameplay for those seeking excellence. And to play the game well, 9 times out of 10, you need friends/good community to do so.

 

It feels like your supporting argument just comes completely out of nowhere. Not to mention that vaguely concluding that the negativity of people in general to how you feel RuneScape is 'fragmented' is a leap of thought so great it nearly spans the entire gulf of mexico. :/ I just don't agree with such a generic view.

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Kimberly, you clearly do not understand what I meant... That is ok, but do not go off on a rant proving me wrong and instead, do as I do... See if the other person really means what I think he means, and if even that is true, see if he also makes a point...

 

 

 

Now, theres a difference between a friend and a friend. There's the one you trust, and couldve lend a godsword to before the trade limit and be sure you got it back whenever you asked for it... And than theres the person you happen to be killing Graardor with cuz he's also in the CC you're in and not noobing about... One is a good friend, the other is a good RS player...

 

The difference between those two, AS I ARGUED HEAVILY, is the player interaction... And the lack thereof is why RS is fragmented...

 

The only bit you're right about is that some of the player interaction is indeed forced... Now how does that glue RS together? Have you been to Daemonheim on w117? How many people ragequit there out of frustration over their teammates?

 

Suddenly the gulf of mexico doesn't seem so big...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
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Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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Kimberly, you clearly do not understand what I meant... That is ok, but do not go off on a rant proving me wrong and instead, do as I do... See if the other person really means what I think he means, and if even that is true, see if he also makes a point...

 

 

 

Now, theres a difference between a friend and a friend. There's the one you trust, and couldve lend a godsword to before the trade limit and be sure you got it back whenever you asked for it... And than theres the person you happen to be killing Graardor with cuz he's also in the CC you're in and not noobing about... One is a good friend, the other is a good RS player...

 

The difference between those two, AS I ARGUED HEAVILY, is the player interaction... And the lack thereof is why RS is fragmented...

 

The only bit you're right about is that some of the player interaction is indeed forced... Now how does that glue RS together? Have you been to Daemonheim on w117? How many people ragequit there out of frustration over their teammates?

 

Suddenly the gulf of mexico doesn't seem so big...

 

I gave you the benefit of the doubt because if this is really what you're arguing, then your claim definitely doesn't make sense. Trust as you're describing was never a prerequisite for success, fun, etc nor is the ability to make such a close friendship in any way diminished. If you needed to trade a godsword to a friend and get it back to confirm the placement of your trust then it doesn't sound like you have a very good friendship, does it? There are still some really close friends and groups on Tip.it and the only reason for any assumed disappearance is just normal growth.

 

The gulf remains just as big as ever. It grows wider with every pointless ellipse.

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I agree that I dislike the trend towards "uber-efficiency" in RS. I am probably one of the most inefficient players there is-- I have played over ten years, with almost a YEAR of total play time, yet I am only at around 200m total XP. I like to stand around in banks and chat with friends. I also do not like that player interaction is being forced upon us-- the average scaper has zero common sense and is your stereotypical rebellious teen.

 

They don't like to follow directions and they [bleep] you over in team-based activities; it's because of that simple fact that "pro PC clans" emerged in ye olde days, and now "pro DG clans" have emerged. That really bugs me, because you can't train DG efficiently without getting level 100--- below that you're forced to use public worlds to get teams, and the average floor takes an hour or more and a fair amount of teams end up with someone who dies and then rage-quits. In a few months, it will get so bad that soloing will be the only way to train DG below 100.

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The community isn't filled with 'trolls' now. If anything, I think there are a lot less trolls than there were 6-8 months ago. Even two years ago (the declared time this thread seems to be referring to as "the good old days") I posted a thread in rate this celebrating the fact that I FINALLY had enough money to buy an Armadyl platebody. I've loved the look of them so much since their release, and worked really hard to get the money for it. I ended up selling my entire bank for it and just BARELY had enough, but I was so happy! Yet 3/4 of the thread contained replies telling me how stupid I was for wasting my entire bank on one single item, and one that really won't help me. I think only one or two people actually got the point that I was aware of how stupid it was, but didn't care. All I cared about was how AWESOME that platebody was and that it was finally ALL MINE!

 

Stonewall was right with his first post on this thread saying that most people look at the past with rose-tinted glasses. However Tip.it's community (at least in the General Discussion boards) has definitely changed. Now it's sort of divided between efficiency players, fun players, and the poor guys stuck in the middle. There's a constant war going on between the efficiency players and the fun players, and while there isn't necessarily any direct trolling going on, it's never a pleasant discussion. The efficiency players are always rude, impolite, and extremely elitist, but honest and not really breaking any rules. The fun players pretend to make the efficiency players feel like bullies, and the fun players act as if showing that the game's about fun and not elitism will provide some sort of justice to the community.

 

What do I think about all this? I hate it. I've essentially left the community, checking back every couple of weeks. People get too worked up over other people's opinions. I just wish everyone would shut the [bleep] up and take a chill pill :\

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I do not think I was arguing the need for friends to succeed in playing RuneScape... You turned a supporting statement into the very thing we are supposedly arguing, but we are not...

 

I am STILL arguing that the lack of proper friends (as stated above) is somethig that has damaged the sense of community severely... I said that "you do not need friends in RS to succeed" as a symptom of the problem, NOT the problem itself...

 

Trust as I described it, I believe, is a prerequisite for a successful friendship... The godsword example was just that, and example, again not the baseline of my argument... A higher frequency in successful trusting friendships is again, in my opinion, a prerequisite for a healthy and happy community...

 

You would argue that the growth in RuneScape players is somehow masking the fact that there are still as many close, tight-knit, brotherly (or sisterly) groups out there as there ever were... I believe that certain updates removed the need for us to seek out these groups or to forge them ourselves, and would have us settle for the next lvl 130 shouting "CS bandos, need people!" at the Grand Exchange...

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MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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I agree that I dislike the trend towards "uber-efficiency" in RS. I am probably one of the most inefficient players there is-- I have played over ten years, with almost a YEAR of total play time, yet I am only at around 200m total XP. I like to stand around in banks and chat with friends. I also do not like that player interaction is being forced upon us-- the average scaper has zero common sense and is your stereotypical rebellious teen.

 

They don't like to follow directions and they [bleep] you over in team-based activities; it's because of that simple fact that "pro PC clans" emerged in ye olde days, and now "pro DG clans" have emerged. That really bugs me, because you can't train DG efficiently without getting level 100--- below that you're forced to use public worlds to get teams, and the average floor takes an hour or more and a fair amount of teams end up with someone who dies and then rage-quits. In a few months, it will get so bad that soloing will be the only way to train DG below 100.

This may be what everyone's arguing about when it comes to player interaction. Forced interaction is very different from choice-interaction. You want to hang out with your friend and go whack each other a few times in the duel arena? Cool. You want to train Dungeoneering? If you don't have 5 coordinated friends you're screwed, and if you want to get anywhere fast, you NEED to team.

 

Updates that force interaction like that bring out the worst in everyone. There's a lot more to say, maybe time to write a Times article? :razz:

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But thats mainly because it is rewards driven, isn't it? To get a true gauge on the community, you have to look at how people interact where theres no mutual gain involved...

 

And thats exactly the crux of it... How many people these days do stuff that doesnt have the proverbial pot of gold at the end?

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
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MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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I take apart arguments which are either faulty or wrong to begin with.

 

Yea i really don't see that very often...

 

Or for that matter at all.

 

Until these people are finally just removed once and for all (and it is no secret to anyone in moderation, administration, etc. who they are)

 

Ya see, based on some of your posts, I'd consider you more a troll then almost anyone on this board, save two other people. Its all a matter of perspective, something which you should learn.

 

Oh yea, wanting to remove trolls is totally trolling.

 

Pro logic bro.

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The Runescape community now is just [cabbage]tier. I played Runescape up until about 6 months ago and I can tell you that the community in general is more focused on gathering in-game wealth and reaching max stat goals than it was when I started playing years before that. I am not saying that trying to max your stats or get rich in an online game is a bad thing, but it does definitely see that this is all the community values anymore. A lot of people are bratty when it comes to their wealth, and the in-game market is just focused on making money by buying an item that the person has no intention to use.

 

It's just rather boring that people only care about boss hunting, getting maxed stats, and flipping items in a market that is entirely ran by merchants.

 

I'm just glad that now I play an online game that gives me the same satisfaction as Runescape used to (with the exploration element) and allows me to engage in PvP where people can lose their characters and items forever, and you can commit genocide against an entire ethnic group just because they stole something from your house or market stall. :)

 

Also, I think people were nicer in general when I first started playing Runescape than they are now.

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Mayn U wanna be like me but U can't be me cuz U ain't got ma swagga on.

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But thats mainly because it is rewards driven, isn't it? To get a true gauge on the community, you have to look at how people interact where theres no mutual gain involved...

 

And thats exactly the crux of it... How many people these days do stuff that doesnt have the proverbial pot of gold at the end?

If I went into more detail, that's what I'd say. Reward-driven team updates don't encourage real interaction. Nobody can force that. Unfortunately, the way the community is means that nobody will interact without that reward at the end, so it's a catch-22.

 

The procedure for writing for you guys is to PM a potential article to an editorial board member, right? :razz:

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Its actually Racheya you need to contact...

 

"I just work here, man."

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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The nice players are still here. They probably just don't bother to post things anymore, because then they'll get flamed for being nice or something.

 

This. Is why generosity sucks.

 

One thing I noticed about tipit forums is that trolling is becoming more commonplace and the sad part is that it is becoming more acceptable.

On the other hand, trolling in RSOF is not permitted and the mods ACTUALLY bother to take care of it unlike the mods here. If you

wanted a topic locked because you don't want it opened anymore, don't count on the mods to do it for you.

I had 2 admins who never bothered to lock my topics (1 was being smart about it, too) and I remember there was one topic where people were spamming for 4 hours and the mods didn't even lock it until the topic reached 7 pages...lol.

 

I always get this "nervous" feeling on posting my opinions because of getting flamed by a smart

alec'y person. I never wanted to call tipit the "best" Runescape fansite. No, we are way far from it. I can probably tell you that from my experience,

there are several fansites and even clansites that have more mature users. Heck, RSOF is even becoming more mature probably because we

are too influenced by internet misdemeanors like /b/, Thanks to our freedom of posting images, gifs, and memes.

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But thats mainly because it is rewards driven, isn't it? To get a true gauge on the community, you have to look at how people interact where theres no mutual gain involved...

 

And thats exactly the crux of it... How many people these days do stuff that doesnt have the proverbial pot of gold at the end?

Why, exactly? Normally, symbiosis works far better then altruism.

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The nice players are still here. They probably just don't bother to post things anymore, because then they'll get flamed for being nice or something.

 

This. Is why generosity sucks.

 

One thing I noticed about tipit forums is that trolling is becoming more commonplace and the sad part is that it is becoming more acceptable.

On the other hand, trolling in RSOF is not permitted and the mods ACTUALLY bother to take care of it unlike the mods here. If you

wanted a topic locked because you don't want it opened anymore, don't count on the mods to do it for you.

I had 2 admins who never bothered to lock my topics (1 was being smart about it, too) and I remember there was one topic where people were spamming for 4 hours and the mods didn't even lock it until the topic reached 7 pages...lol.

 

I always get this "nervous" feeling on posting my opinions because of getting flamed by a smart

alec'y person. I never wanted to call tipit the "best" Runescape fansite. No, we are way far from it. I can probably tell you that from my experience,

there are several fansites and even clansites that have more mature users. Heck, RSOF is even becoming more mature probably because we

are too influenced by internet misdemeanors like /b/, Thanks to our freedom of posting images, gifs, and memes.

 

u mad bro?

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The nice players are still here. They probably just don't bother to post things anymore, because then they'll get flamed for being nice or something.

 

This. Is why generosity sucks.

 

One thing I noticed about tipit forums is that trolling is becoming more commonplace and the sad part is that it is becoming more acceptable.

On the other hand, trolling in RSOF is not permitted and the mods ACTUALLY bother to take care of it unlike the mods here. If you

wanted a topic locked because you don't want it opened anymore, don't count on the mods to do it for you.

I had 2 admins who never bothered to lock my topics (1 was being smart about it, too) and I remember there was one topic where people were spamming for 4 hours and the mods didn't even lock it until the topic reached 7 pages...lol.

 

I always get this "nervous" feeling on posting my opinions because of getting flamed by a smart

alec'y person. I never wanted to call tipit the "best" Runescape fansite. No, we are way far from it. I can probably tell you that from my experience,

there are several fansites and even clansites that have more mature users. Heck, RSOF is even becoming more mature probably because we

are too influenced by internet misdemeanors like /b/, Thanks to our freedom of posting images, gifs, and memes.

 

u mad bro?

 

 

See, this is what I'm talking about. This nonsense warrants a legitimate post count in the one and only tipit forums!

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You're mad because you're getting picked on by the trash of the Internet?

 

 

I'm not mad. I'm actually quite happy thanks to the yummy Thanksgiving dinner I had yesterday.

I'm just pointing out why Tipit is no better than the common internet communities we have lurking around everywhere.

Post something that's "troll friendly", expect to get a bunch of tipit members that will become friends with you. No joke.

I'm laughing at the fact that how shameless we are and that label ourselves as being the cream of the crop whens it's

actually the contrary.

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