What happened to this community?

[Kimberly]

I don't usually post anymore in general discussion because it does feel that you have to watch what you say for the people who are big into their efficiency as people say (so not to offend them). I just like to play it the way that feels right to me, I don't usually play for skill levels anymore but just mess about, a lot more fun then instead feeling it as a grind.

 

That's how I felt when I first started posting again but then I said [bleep] it and posted anyway. I've since become of the barge-in-and-never-leave approach, hasn't failed me yet.

 

Yay for being annoying!

[TheAncient]

cant we just not do anything about it? i'm fine with the flaming going on. it's even a little entertaining. i don't want to be butthurt when there's no need to be.

 

chill out brah

[Naraku893]

Pixel hungry nerd kids thats what happened to the community

[das]

Pixel hungry nerd kids thats what happened to the community

we had those in classic :unsure:

[Naraku893]

All trolling aside (no, really), I think as skills get easier to train with more updates that allow easier leveling posts like 70 range isnt pro like it was. I remember when 45 range was ranked and admired because we didnt have chinchompas or soul wars.

[xpx]

I remember in classic - this idiot named oergg walked around maging cows and just jerking around and i thought - hey he's a noob when it comes to runescape - but you know what? that noob was one of the coolest people i've ever met on this game and a good friend years later - as for his skills? He eventually had fun leveling and passed me in total and became a pretty serious pvp'er - a better pvper than i ever was. People will change playstyle over the years and you know what - WHO CARES - it's a game, where you have fun.

 

 

Sorry for the offtopic but... god damn was he a crazy guy! I'd almost forgotten about him(and his bunny ears, mithril chain, infinity bottoms and flippers). If anyone ever needs an example of a guy who was as inefficient as possible but a great guy with a great personality, he was the standard.

[Sentry_Wolf]

Seriously - what can be done to make this a better community? anything?

 

Im not excatly sure what would be wanted, only thing I can think of is creating stuff (events/competitions etc?) that encourages the type of community people want to come/arise/whatever.

[All_Bogs]

I remember in classic - this idiot named oergg walked around maging cows and just jerking around and i thought - hey he's a noob when it comes to runescape - but you know what? that noob was one of the coolest people i've ever met on this game and a good friend years later - as for his skills? He eventually had fun leveling and passed me in total and became a pretty serious pvp'er - a better pvper than i ever was. People will change playstyle over the years and you know what - WHO CARES - it's a game, where you have fun.

 

 

Sorry for the offtopic but... god damn was he a crazy guy! I'd almost forgotten about him(and his bunny ears, mithril chain, infinity bottoms and flippers). If anyone ever needs an example of a guy who was as inefficient as possible but a great guy with a great personality, he was the standard.

I second this post.

 

[das]

ah a time when coolness had nothing to do with xp/hour vs gp spent :-D

[Adam007]

If we rally for anything, I say we have a rally to bring back Oergg to TIF. :P

[Sentry_Wolf]

If we rally for anything, I say we have a rally to bring back Oergg to TIF. :P

 

Agreed. :)

[Alg]

Seriously - what can be done to make this a better community? anything?

Pit the efficiency guys against inefficiency guys in a giant battle royale for the amusement of the rest of us? If we charge admission it would probably be enough that the forum won't need ads for a few months... :lol:

[ilovecuttingyews]

cant we just not do anything about it? i'm fine with the flaming going on. it's even a little entertaining. i don't want to be butthurt when there's no need to be.

chill out brah

See, judging from this post and from past ones I've seen, you're part of the "problem". I'm not trying to be rude, but when you use words and sayings like the ones I've bolded, where there is no positive outcome from using them, it just lumps you in with the rest of those who don't care about being a positive contributer to society.

I'm fine with a little slang here and there, but when you use negative slangs like 'butthurt' it just reflects badly on you.

 

As to my answer to the question:

When society is shifting towards a much more 'me' related way of thinking rather then the good of the whole, there is little you can do to keep it out of a game where the target audience is the very generation which is driving this shift in society. I'm ashamed to be part of this generation and do my part to try to teach people that thinking of and respecting others should be your primary focus in life, but it seems that for every nice person you see in my generation, you see 100 more who would much rather get what they want, when they want, and are willing to run over anyone who gets in their way, rather then what's best for them or society as a whole.

[RandomSwede]

I wouldn't ask Das to do anything, but rather I ask the intelligent members of this forum, the ones that are reading this post and NOT replying, to start posting again...please! I know you're out there because when topics like this come up, you all come out of the woodwork to give an off-hand remark about how things were better before. Well, why don't you start posting again and make things better instead of reminiscing about the past.

 

End soapbox.

 

 

This is what i'm talking about, I see so many people reading, Good posters - quality intelligent people.

 

Yet they remain silent.

 

Today is your day

 

The community is YOURS.

 

Seize it.

 

 

Well I suppose I'll take this opportunity.

 

I'm an ex TIFer from back in the day, I think I joined in October 06' and quit sometime in 09' after I forgot an old lot of passwords. Might as well rejoin now that I play more RS nowadays.

[jettrider]

When society is shifting towards a much more 'me' related way of thinking rather then the good of the whole, there is little you can do to keep it out of a game where the target audience is the very generation which is driving this shift in society. I'm ashamed to be part of this generation and do my part to try to teach people that thinking of and respecting others should be your primary focus in life, but it seems that for every nice person you see in my generation, you see 100 more who would much rather get what they want, when they want, and are willing to run over anyone who gets in their way, rather then what's best for them or society as a whole.

 

Posting on a forum has little to do with getting what you want ingame, unless you mean getting the satisfaction of thinking you're better at the game than someone else. Actions in video games are becoming more and more separated from actions in real life, so I don't think it's important that you try to play a video game in a "nice" way. The difference is posting about it on forums, where's there's no reason to carry on the charade except to create competition.

 

The problem is that when fewer people were high level, it didn't matter how good they were at the game because either way they were separated from the pack by levels. RuneScape is not a game dictated by skill. The sheer amount of hours spent on it matters much more than how good you are at various clicking patterns or tactics/setups. Therefore, you can't find out who is better by doing anything ingame, so you have to duke in out on the forums to see who gets more bang for their hours.

 

TipIt is one of the better larger gathering places of high levels - either through recruiting or through naturally more active people leveling through the years - and as such is a good place to discuss things. What this leads to is what most people complain about - ridiculing for alternate training methods, posting max (full-concentration, perfect clicks) experience rates as long-term averages, and the like. I also feel like a lot of discussion is lumped into a ridiculed "efficiency" box. I don't think anyone gets angry at someone deliberately playing with an alternate method with a reason why they do it. The problems arise when people post incorrect information. For example, a player who says they fished monkfish to 99 fishing because they were the best combination of fishing experience and money is posting completely false information. But a player who says they fished monkfish for that combination and as a relaxing and enjoyable method won't find nearly as many flames (and those will be unjust, since the reason included a personal and subjective element).

 

If you want TIF to be a nicer place, you either have to have an application process based on personality, ban overzealous high levels, or separate discussions. I don't think the first two are reasonable, so I'll take a shot at the third. Split General Discussion into general game discussion and general community discussion. If you will be offended to find out that what you thought was the best way to play isn't, don't go into general game discussion or Help&Advice. Everything else - the "what if" topics, the community discussion, the game theme discussions, etc - can go in a separate forum for flame-free discussion. That way you can easily take action (deleting posts, moving/splitting threads, etc to keep the divide) without banning anyone.

 

Drastic, yes, but you're not in a position to solve the underlying problem. To lessen the damage, you can separate the two warring sides.

[Lep]

Community wouldn't be like this if JaGeX didn't add so much useless content which is all crap compared to the best ways and therefore is meaningless content - no efficiency to argue with. Oh guess what, that means if we had high level content the game wouldn't suck. Imaaaagiiiinnnne thaaaaaaaaaat. Who woulda known. :rolleyes:

 

Guy 1: What's better for str, d scimmy or sara sword?

Guy 2: KORASI SWORD!

Guy 1: it's overpowered like all melee weps

Guy 3: DHAROK!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Guy 4: just afk bandits

Guy 5: bronze scimitar (pp+)

[Tim]

Seriously - what can be done to make this a better community? anything?

 

Cupholders.

 

I suppose the one thing I dont like is if you reply to a general question with the knowledge you happen to have, you get jumped because its not the absolute 100% efficient way to do it just because it reaps more cash in theory.

 

Ex: I might say try slayer for combat expand money, I get jumped instantly with "No, your wrong. slayer is slow and unrewarding (which it hasn't been for me @ a low lv so far), go do Green drags. good exp and money. Why? It's riddled with bots and/or too high risk in deep wildy at a low level. LOGIC@@@

[TheAncient]

Ex: I might say try slayer for combat expand money, I get jumped instantly with "No, your wrong. slayer is slow and unrewarding (which it hasn't been for me @ a low lv so far), go do Green drags. good exp and money. Why? It's riddled with bots and/or too high risk in deep wildy at a low level. LOGIC@@@

That seems kind of exaggerated to me, but whatever

 

cant we just not do anything about it? i'm fine with the flaming going on. it's even a little entertaining. i don't want to be butthurt when there's no need to be.

chill out brah

See, judging from this post and from past ones I've seen, you're part of the "problem". I'm not trying to be rude, but when you use words and sayings like the ones I've bolded, where there is no positive outcome from using them, it just lumps you in with the rest of those who don't care about being a positive contributer to society.

I'm fine with a little slang here and there, but when you use negative slangs like 'butthurt' it just reflects badly on you.

 

As to my answer to the question:

When society is shifting towards a much more 'me' related way of thinking rather then the good of the whole, there is little you can do to keep it out of a game where the target audience is the very generation which is driving this shift in society. I'm ashamed to be part of this generation and do my part to try to teach people that thinking of and respecting others should be your primary focus in life, but it seems that for every nice person you see in my generation, you see 100 more who would much rather get what they want, when they want, and are willing to run over anyone who gets in their way, rather then what's best for them or society as a whole.

 

I AM part of the "problem", and fully admit to it. I am not ashamed of it either. I don't really care because I've realized I don't really think it's a problem. There's no reason I need to get along with certain people other than for sits&giggles.

 

And what I was trying to say is that it's not really a problem unless you make it out to be one. Who cares that we have enemies? What are they going to do? Flame us in every thread? Like they do already? It's kind of fun, actually.

 

Being a positive contributor to society and being a positive contributor to an online board are vastly different.

 

And to your last paragraph, I highly admire your patronizing view on how an entire generation of a society should be shaped and moulded based on your highly limited worldview. It's amusing.

 

Your emotional response to what I have just said will be something along the lines of you being on your moral high horse and calling me selfish and close-minded. To that I respond, okay, cool. We have different values. You think yours are superior, I think mine are. Who cares?

 

If you want TIF to be a nicer place, you either have to have an application process based on personality, ban overzealous high levels, or separate discussions. I don't think the first two are reasonable, so I'll take a shot at the third. Split General Discussion into general game discussion and general community discussion. If you will be offended to find out that what you thought was the best way to play isn't, don't go into general game discussion or Help&Advice. Everything else - the "what if" topics, the community discussion, the game theme discussions, etc - can go in a separate forum for flame-free discussion. That way you can easily take action (deleting posts, moving/splitting threads, etc to keep the divide) without banning anyone.

This is a very reasonable suggestion. I think it should be considered carefully.

 

//////

 

If you really want to argue with me formally, here is my opinion laid out without flaming or whatever:

 

The problem with shaping a discussion board by banning and locking posts is that good discussion is almost always organic. Regulation of societal matters very rarely turns out the way that it is intended. Likewise, I think having mods directly ban or lock posts is unreasonable. I'm glad TIF hasn't done so - I'm glad even that they haven't banned the people I'm often flaming. I don't think the mods should take sides, despite their personal leanings.

 

That's also why this discussion is really pretty meaningless. It's very hard for a group as a whole to decide on and then live by a set of rules which are, to be honest, more or less arbitrary. Most societal expectations are understood without having to state them - they develop naturally.

 

With that said, if the mods really are to look to a solution to this "problem" of repeated flaming, I think it should be a structural one rather than one of policy. The suggestion of two separate boards - high level discussion versus general game discussion - may be explicitly divisive, but may overall eliminate many of these quarrels.

[mrlandslide]

It is not just the TIF that has changed, it is the entire runescape community.

 

For the first 6 years or so of Runescape, people played in a way that immediately made them happy, they didn't care if it took them twice as long to level a skill at point A as opposed to point B, if point A was more fun to do (in the player's opinion) then the person would forgo the faster method to instead have immediate gratification.

 

About 3-4 years ago things began to change, Runescape was maturing as a game and more mid-game and late-game content was being released (including skillcapes) as opposed to beginning game content, as well as more players reaching the higher levels to access this content. Thus with more methods becoming available to train the same skill, more rewards for reaching the higher levels of skills, and more people already achieving those levels, people began to play Runescape less for the immediate gratification that most games are played for, and instead played in a usually less-than-thrilled, and sometimes even miserable state that would help a player reach a goal much more quickly than the ways that gave immediate gratification. In short, people played, and many still do, so that sometime in the future they could have fun, but for now they would have to "grind" through.

 

Within the past 6-12 months things have begun to change again, these "effecient" people- the ones who treated runescape more like a job (less-than happy now, but will be payed for the work later), have begun to be seen in a negative light by those who treated runescape like any other game- the ones who play for immediate gratification even if there is no future reward.

Thus the tables have turned on these "efficient players", while the past 2-3 years they have been on top, the ones who looked down upon the rest for not being like them, they are now the ones who are being looked down upon by the growing population of "casual", or "I-want-happiness-now" gamers in runescape. However not everyone on either side looked down upon the other side, only the more elitist (and more vocal) players, and yes there are elitist on both sides, and not just the efficient side.

 

Now if you read this little history lesson and thought, "Who is he trying to say is correct?" then you have already fallen into the trap. There isn't a correct side, people should play in whichever way they find the most enjoyment.

And thats why seeing both the terms Efficiency-Freak or Inefficient-Noob bring me equal sadness, for its not one side or the other that i disagree with, but the people on both sides who feel that their way of "how to have fun" is the best for everyone.

[Nathaninch]

Posting some Oergg love

[stevepole]

What happened to this community?

 

I find this question tough to answer personally as I don't believe it's the community that has changed but more so just the people who have come and gone have but that's nature, it's something we can't control. Another factor is the game itself and the nature of it's playing style which from what I've taken from this thread is that more and more people are heavily focused on maximizing their levels but I don't think that is something new. I think the fun people are saying is gone is also natural for a game like ours as more and more people start playing that small community that flourished before is naturally lost as each player slowly plays there way out of the game, without being really replaced so that old culture is basically lost with the on come of new playing styles and cultures which is basically the result of the progression of the game from Classic to the current state of Runescape.

 

I don't really know exactly what I'm trying to get at besides the only explanation for the current state of our community is due to the natural evolution of the game.

 

To address the community more specifically I feel we all just need to think about how we sound when we speak. Do we all really want sound like [wagon] when we talk to one another? No. Do we belittle our family and friends when we talk to them? No, so why would we want to be mean to one another here? The idea of a community like ours is that we should act like a family and support one another equally and be there for one another. That's really the community and culture of the "good old days" and it's only up you, the community, to act upon that.

 

(I'd also like to note that both Das and Adam007 made some strong points, which I encourage all you to at least read and consider)

[TheAncient]

To address the community more specifically I feel we all just need to think about how we sound when we speak. Do we all really want sound like [wagon] when we talk to one another? No. Do we belittle our family and friends when we talk to them? No, so why would we want to be mean to one another here? The idea of a community like ours is that we should act like a family and support one another equally and be there for one another. That's really the community and culture of the "good old days" and it's only up you, the community, to act upon that.

 

I think this opinion is exactly why there's so much divisiveness.

 

Some of us are here primarily for a sense of community. Some of us are here primarily to share information.

 

And then there are just people who are stupid, haha

[SirTommy2005]

High level elites with their Divines and Dungeoneering items/methods, is what is alienating this community, I hardly see any new people anymore, it's just the same people arguing.

Not to mention cyber lover affairs between certain people in these forums.

Just my throwing it out there.

[das]

I'll bite

 

I AM part of the "problem", and fully admit to it. I am not ashamed of it either. I don't really care because I've realized I don't really think it's a problem. There's no reason I need to get along with certain people other than for sits&giggles.

 

I admire your boldness - However if you admit you are part of the problem multiple people feel that exists on this thread, does it not bother you at all? While you don't think it's a problem - others do - isn't it sort of self arrogance to justify your behavior as ok because you see it as such?

 

 

And what I was trying to say is that it's not really a problem unless you make it out to be one. Who cares that we have enemies? What are they going to do? Flame us in every thread? Like they do already? It's kind of fun, actually.

I say this as a man who has had enemies on this forum years ago and enjoyed the banter with them - then i grew up - but your commentary here is socially irresponsible. Technically nothing is a problem until socially it's deemed unaccepted i realize it's a forum, but it seems insensitive.

 

Being a positive contributor to society and being a positive contributor to an online board are vastly different.

Sure, but being a douchebag is universal eh?

 

 

And to your last paragraph, I highly admire your patronizing view on how an entire generation of a society should be shaped and moulded based on your highly limited worldview. It's amusing.

I'm sure he admires your self righteous arrogance. There's alot of patronizing by both sides and alot of elitist drivel by both sides - No side is better than the other really. Hell I'll even concede, I'm an elitist to a degree

 

I don't think the mods should take sides, despite their personal leanings.

 

We strive to maintain an unbiased view in all of our moderating.

 

 

With that said, if the mods really are to look to a solution to this "problem" of repeated flaming, I think it should be a structural one rather than one of policy. The suggestion of two separate boards - high level discussion versus general game discussion - may be explicitly divisive, but may overall eliminate many of these quarrels.

 

To me this is flawed logic, because personally I know people who dismiss people because they didn't play classic, Same thing will happen regardless of segregation. splitting boards wont keep the debauchery on one forum and not the other.

[Crit2h]

Now if you read this little history lesson and thought, "Who is he trying to say is correct?" then you have already fallen into the trap. There isn't a correct side, people should play in whichever way they find the most enjoyment.

And thats why seeing both the terms Efficiency-Freak or Inefficient-Noob bring me equal sadness, for its not one side or the other that i disagree with, but the people on both sides who feel that their way of "how to have fun" is the best for everyone.

 

 

Agreed.