What happened to this community?

[farfromok]

Fun beats efficiency anyday

 

PS: Look how long it took me to post :0

[SirIzenhime]

Fun beats efficiency anyday

 

PS: Look how long it took me to post :0

In your opinion*

Grats on your first post.

[xpx]

Fun beats efficiency anyday

 

PS: Look how long it took me to post :0

This is the utmost stupidity that really drives me crazy. People assuming things that are not even close to being true.

 

For the record, efficiency doesn't exclude fun, you can have fun and be efficient at the same time, and more often than not, being more efficient allows you to have more fun. In other words, people aren't efficient because they hate having fun.

[MstrMonopoly]

Fun beats efficiency anyday

 

PS: Look how long it took me to post :0

This is the utmost stupidity that really drives me crazy. People assuming things that are not even close to being true.

 

For the record, efficiency doesn't exclude fun, you can have fun and be efficient at the same time, and more often than not, being more efficient allows you to have more fun. In other words, people aren't efficient because they hate having fun.

 

Commonly acknowledged example: using piety or turmoil on slayer is much more fun than not. You hit big numbers AND it's efficient, especially given the tiny price of prayer potions these days.

[farfromok]

Fun beats efficiency anyday

 

PS: Look how long it took me to post :0

This is the utmost stupidity that really drives me crazy. People assuming things that are not even close to being true.

 

For the record, efficiency doesn't exclude fun, you can have fun and be efficient at the same time, and more often than not, being more efficient allows you to have more fun. In other words, people aren't efficient because they hate having fun.

 

I agree. Efficiency doesn't exclude fun, but I didn't say that it does. Often its not one or the other but sometimes it is and at those times I choose fun over efficiency.

[TheAncient]

I view efficiency as fun in some cases. this is why I enjoy seemingly mundane tasks such as cleaning my bank.

[Range_This11]

Jesus christ can we please not turn this thread into the efficiency debate? It's fine to discuss the different camps (fun v. efficiency) and their role in the community but I don't really want to read that argument for the eight millionth time...

[Low C]

Why do people hate efficiency so much? I like to have fun myself but I also don't like spending unnecessary time on a task in any game. Can we just drop the efficiency debate, its not hurting the community that people are efficient. If anything it's helping it, I would rather read logical posts by certain forum members detailing accurate data such as DPS on weapons and how they correlate to being worth using in a dungeon or on a boss. That information actually has meaning and insight. :mellow:

[I_am_Not]

I just browsed some competing fansite forums and have to say tif is much more informative and overall has a better community

Same, except I'd say you're on an extremely powerful substance.

Not trying to bring tif down or anything it's a nice read, but anyone from tif will say tif is the best and vice versa.

[TheAncient]

I just browsed some competing fansite forums and have to say tif is much more informative and overall has a better community

Same, except I'd say you're on an extremely powerful substance.

Not trying to bring tif down or anything it's a nice read, but anyone from tif will say tif is the best and vice versa.

 

hahah yeah, it's kind of hard to be unbiased about that kind of thing.

 

Why do people hate efficiency so much?

 

I don't think they do. it's just that the players that fashion themselves as efficient tend to come off as arrogant, myself included.

[Blyaunte]

LOL -- what happened?

 

Too many people got too big for their britches and forgot they were supposed to be having fun. :rolleyes:

[TheAncient]

crashing post has made a "efficiency" camp and a "fun" camp that flame each other. both of these are actually misnomers - all of us are trying to be as efficient and have the most fun at the same time. efficiency does not preclude fun, and fun does not preclude efficiency. moreover, being an "efficient" player is not better than being a "fun" player, and vice versa. it is a matter of personal opinion, preference, and intelligence.

 

if anything, the reason we fashion ourselves as "elite" is because we try to argue logically and clearly. others see this as arrogance because we refuse to respond to unfounded retorts and instead flame back because we can't stand the lack of logic behind certain things said. elite really has nothing to do with levels in this case; "elite" is an unwillingness to accept ignorance.

[Obtaurian]

crashing post has made a "efficiency" camp and a "fun" camp that flame each other. both of these are actually misnomers - all of us are trying to be as efficient and have the most fun at the same time. efficiency does not preclude fun, and fun does not preclude efficiency. moreover, being an "efficient" player is not better than being a "fun" player, and vice versa. it is a matter of personal opinion, preference, and intelligence.

 

if anything, the reason we fashion ourselves as "elite" is because we try to argue logically and clearly. others see this as arrogance because we refuse to respond to unfounded retorts and instead flame back because we can't stand the lack of logic behind certain things said. elite really has nothing to do with levels in this case; "elite" is an unwillingness to accept ignorance.

 

Hear, hear. :thumbup: I wish I could fit that whole post in my signature.

[PrevDharockslayer]

I used to be around tip.it for a lot. Been a part of the OoC and all that. I played to have fun.

 

There was some time where just fooling around seemingly transitioned into leveling.

Levels started to mean everything. Skill capes. If you were good enough for dungeons ect.

 

After my runescaping carreer I got into starcraft. I started watching the proleagues and started playing it to improve and all that.

You feel pretty small amongst all the strong players who can vanquish you in the blink of an eye using just their shoelaces. It kept you humble.

 

Obviously you would win a few matches in a row and you would feel on top of the world, then you would lose a lot again because you started to walk next to your shoes.

Its a constant cycle in which humbleness and keeping your head cool would reward you with winning games.

 

The community I frequent a lot is teamliquid. This site is HEAVILY moderated. You could sneak an ode to American greatness into North Korea more easily than trolling on that board at that time.

Having felt both these communities ( Tip.it and Runescape for 3 years, Starcraft and Teamliquid for 1,5 ) I can now start to puzzle together the differences. NOTE: I will not claim either of these communities are superior to eachother; they are merely very different and thus cannot be compared.

 

 

Its a given that when you have a lot of success, you will start to get arrogant. It happens to everyone. You get really good at something and you feel like the best until someone better pops along and shows you you are not.

Runescape ala 2007 ( yes cliché, wildy bla bla crap ahead ) you had true dangers. Dying was punished with losing your items and you had to pay good attention to your trades.

Nowadays Runescape you don't lose your items when you die in PvE ( I mean seriously, anybody can get to some place with 1 hour to get there ), trades are being automated and you cannot be scammed, and your skills obviously won't deteriorate.

 

This means that you can only get higher. You get that 99 attack and you get that dragon armour. You get the constant sence of achievement without the feeling of loss. This breeds arrogance.

 

 

Runescape aside. I see tons of people posting on all kinds of forums trying to prove their right to eachother. You post a comment and someone disagrees with it, you quote it and discuss/troll him back. Then he starts quoting and someone joins in, and soon the grave for the thread will be dug.

 

I think that most people have to reflect every once in a while that they should be giving their opinion and feedback and then just leave it there. Obviously discussions arent bad. But its often the case that people can't just leave the discussion. They have to force their opinion down their disagree-ers throats until the 'opponent' resigns in their verbal conflict.

 

 

As a final bit of reflection. The community has always been like this. People's memories are just tinted with roses about the times before this time. This is ESPECIALLY true for the Runescape community. For some reason this community is the most inclined to remeniscing the past.

 

I believe there is no factor that decides wether a community will slowly rot. Its a powerful mix of different things which make a community deteriorate.

[Shinobu_Sensui]

Did you just start to notice that the game became about everyone talking about how their e-peen is bigger than yours?

Pretty much i was always a lurker on the forums before i finally decided to actually make and account.

 

It'd be a poor community if everyone was trying to be nice about everything. I actually enjoy people using varied replies for different situations that might not be nice, but are entertaining and truthful(sarcasm, minor flaming, pseudo-trolling etc).

Yes thay are quite funny.

[Racheya]

I used to be around tip.it for a lot. Been a part of the OoC and all that. I played to have fun.

 

There was some time where just fooling around seemingly transitioned into leveling.

Levels started to mean everything. Skill capes. If you were good enough for dungeons ect.

 

After my runescaping carreer I got into starcraft. I started watching the proleagues and started playing it to improve and all that.

You feel pretty small amongst all the strong players who can vanquish you in the blink of an eye using just their shoelaces. It kept you humble.

 

Obviously you would win a few matches in a row and you would feel on top of the world, then you would lose a lot again because you started to walk next to your shoes.

Its a constant cycle in which humbleness and keeping your head cool would reward you with winning games.

 

The community I frequent a lot is teamliquid. This site is HEAVILY moderated. You could sneak an ode to American greatness into North Korea more easily than trolling on that board at that time.

Having felt both these communities ( Tip.it and Runescape for 3 years, Starcraft and Teamliquid for 1,5 ) I can now start to puzzle together the differences. NOTE: I will not claim either of these communities are superior to eachother; they are merely very different and thus cannot be compared.

 

 

Its a given that when you have a lot of success, you will start to get arrogant. It happens to everyone. You get really good at something and you feel like the best until someone better pops along and shows you you are not.

Runescape ala 2007 ( yes cliché, wildy bla bla crap ahead ) you had true dangers. Dying was punished with losing your items and you had to pay good attention to your trades.

Nowadays Runescape you don't lose your items when you die in PvE ( I mean seriously, anybody can get to some place with 1 hour to get there ), trades are being automated and you cannot be scammed, and your skills obviously won't deteriorate.

 

This means that you can only get higher. You get that 99 attack and you get that dragon armour. You get the constant sence of achievement without the feeling of loss. This breeds arrogance.

 

 

Runescape aside. I see tons of people posting on all kinds of forums trying to prove their right to eachother. You post a comment and someone disagrees with it, you quote it and discuss/troll him back. Then he starts quoting and someone joins in, and soon the grave for the thread will be dug.

 

I think that most people have to reflect every once in a while that they should be giving their opinion and feedback and then just leave it there. Obviously discussions arent bad. But its often the case that people can't just leave the discussion. They have to force their opinion down their disagree-ers throats until the 'opponent' resigns in their verbal conflict.

 

 

As a final bit of reflection. The community has always been like this. People's memories are just tinted with roses about the times before this time. This is ESPECIALLY true for the Runescape community. For some reason this community is the most inclined to remeniscing the past.

 

I believe there is no factor that decides wether a community will slowly rot. Its a powerful mix of different things which make a community deteriorate.

=D> This is a great post, one of the few here that isn't 'waaah efficiency is ruining it or 'waaah anti-efficiency is ruining it'.

 

It doesn't matter what 'side' you're on, if you're being arrogant then you're part of the problem.

[Vex]

Here is my take on efficiency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why play one game, when you can play two!

[halo475]

I enjoy most of this community, the people that are efficient or fun, it really doesn't bother me, i just hate people that use meme's and act like arrogant childish idiots that obviously are not quite right in the head, hard to describe in any language short of unpleasant, but i think you understand the type of people i am talking about, anyways those people probably hate me but that doesn't bother me.

[ghjkl]

efficiency is fun

the point of efficiency is to get the grinding done faster so you have more time to "have fun" or grind more depending on what you do in rs

[Youmu]

efficiency is fun

the point of efficiency is to get the grinding done faster so you have more time to "have fun" or grind more depending on what you do in rs

Exactly. This is why people in these forums need to think outside of the box. Just because someone likes to be efficient so much of the time doesn't mean they are no-lifers/freaks/elitists. It simply means they want to get this task done in the shortest time possible, so they can move on to other, more fun goals.

 

@ Vex: I used to do that too (although it's a different game), but I find myself getting distracted a lot by RS itself. I can't live without chatting D:

[Vex]

Yeah I managed to get all of the guild wars games + expan for £15 so I figured i'd try it out lol.

 

2.7M Wc Xp so far this week.

 

I am tempted to maybe do an article or "guide" on inactive & active playstyles and exploring effort/clicks behind certain methods of skilling, since efficiency doesn't take that into account. Only time vs money.

 

A good example of this I guess is Ivy vs Teaks/Sawmill I guess.

[Blyaunte]

crashing post has made a "efficiency" camp and a "fun" camp that flame each other. both of these are actually misnomers - all of us are trying to be as efficient and have the most fun at the same time. efficiency does not preclude fun, and fun does not preclude efficiency. moreover, being an "efficient" player is not better than being a "fun" player, and vice versa. it is a matter of personal opinion, preference, and intelligence.

 

if anything, the reason we fashion ourselves as "elite" is because we try to argue logically and clearly. others see this as arrogance because we refuse to respond to unfounded retorts and instead flame back because we can't stand the lack of logic behind certain things said. elite really has nothing to do with levels in this case; "elite" is an unwillingness to accept ignorance.

 

I always find it amusing to see self-proclaimed elites connect the thought that constant, mind-numbingly grinding repetition, makes them superior in any way whatsoever to other people.

 

Truly -- it's laughable -- is it not?

[stonewall337]

Fun beats efficiency anyday

 

PS: Look how long it took me to post :0

This is the utmost stupidity that really drives me crazy. People assuming things that are not even close to being true.

 

For the record, efficiency doesn't exclude fun, you can have fun and be efficient at the same time, and more often than not, being more efficient allows you to have more fun. In other words, people aren't efficient because they hate having fun.

 

I agree. Efficiency doesn't exclude fun, but I didn't say that it does. Often its not one or the other but sometimes it is and at those times I choose fun over efficiency.

 

You're still wrong. You said fun beats efficiency, which infers that having fun excludes efficiency. It may not be what you meant, but it is what you inferred.

 

To the above: What the hell is that supposed to mean? Are you calling RS "mind numbing" and "grinding"? Maybe it is for you, however, that does not mean it is for everyone. You make an assumption, without basis, and use that assumption to build your whole argument on. No one with even a modicum of knowledge of logical reasoning or debate skills will take you serious, yet these types of arguments are the ones which are so common on the internet. Truly illuminating.

 

Not to mention, just by comparison, its rather easy to see who has better stats, isn't it? This isn't a politically correct high school, where everyone is "equal" and no one can be "better" then anyone else. Nor is much of real life. There are people who are better at (not better people, that's a whole different issue) certain things. I am better then the vast majority of RS in certain things, whilst there are people who are far better then I am, both stat, knowledge, and bank wise.

 

I believe you are thinking of perhaps a different term, maybe haughty? There is nothing wrong with being elite, or an elitist. I won't DG with most people under 100, not because I am "selfish" or "stuck up". They are simply not as good, and I have more fun going with people who are actually GOOD at what I am training.

 

As a matter of fact, you'll find few people more helpful or knowledgeable then these "elites" whom you so disdain. XPX has an excellent guide, and often offers superb advice. Grimy has spent numerous hours on his spreadsheets, etc.

[Blyaunte]

To the above: What the hell is that supposed to mean? Are you calling RS "mind numbing" and "grinding"? Maybe it is for you, however, that does not mean it is for everyone. You make an assumption, without basis, and use that assumption to build your whole argument on. No one with even a modicum of knowledge of logical reasoning or debate skills will take you serious, yet these types of arguments are the ones which are so common on the internet. Truly illuminating.

 

I assume you're referring to my comments, so I will choose to respond.

 

Inasmuch as EVERY single review posted on Internet Game-Rating sites about Runescape by those people who rate games ALL and I mean ALL refer to the game-play of Runescape as "mind-numbing" and "repetitive", I felt obliged to use those same terms.

 

Likewise, if you ever bother to read the rants and complaints on the RSOF, you will find those same descriptions from the vast majority of people who play the game.

 

Finally, if you're trying to tell me that consistently clicking a tinderbox and a log 185,321 times, is neither repetitive nor grinding, and that I have no basis for an assessment as such -- then you've firmly got your cranium ensconsed in your backside.

 

Obviously these aren't baseless assumptions. They are clearly oft-stated complaints about the nature of the game play.

 

Oh -- and while you're removing your head from your rear, get over yourself already. Seriously. It's a game. You're nothing special. :rolleyes:

[stonewall337]

I'm curious who clicks a tinderbox and log 180k times, they are doing it the wrong way-Their own fault.

 

I'm also curious why these people play if they find the game boring?

 

Hmm.

 

So as we've established that these people play out of fun, then we can discount what those who rate games think, as it is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

Nothing special? Well, RS won't help me in real life, being level 138 maxed or level 47 with 893 total won't help me get a job, but that does not negate the fact that some people are more skilled then others, which is simply what I said. IN GAME. How is that difficult to understand? As well, continued personal attacks are neither conducive to a well constructed argument, nor gaining you any ground, as they are illogical, simple logical fallacies. I am better (defined as having a better understanding, stats, bank, etc) then most 'scapers. That does not mean I have more of a right to play RS then them, that I am better then them in real life, or am smarter necessarily. Its simply a matter of comparison. My car can be compared to someone else in real life, and it may be better or worse. That doesn't make me better then them in chess, or in school, etc. You are attempting to state that my comparison of scientifically verifiable aspects to "worth", a rather difficult comparison to make when comparing abstract to concrete "values" or statistic, etc.