What happened to this community?

[stevepole]

The people you see succeed are those who worked hard and respect those around them. Those who choice to be arrogant and rude end up living miserably.

 

To that I respond "george bush, bill oreilly, glenn beck, sarah palin"

 

Also, the guy wasn't being serious lol. look at his username

 

Because someone's username is not the serious of names, I shouldn't consider what he says serious? The odds could be against me but you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover.

 

Sarah Palin and George Bush are you saying they didn't work hard to have gotten to where they are in live? You realize in becoming president George Bush had to win over the public's appeal? You may disagree with their politics (and so do I) but arrogance and rudeness did not get them to where they are in life. I choice not to watch those dumb news shows with Bill I'Reilly and Glenn Beck so I can't really comment so much besides be hard ass political commentaries is a rare career field in which being a douchebag is rewarded but you have a better chance at becoming a professional baseball player then obtaining their jobs.

[Sir_Squab]

What constitutes as not ordinary? What, are we going back to the whole "If your not posting 120 DG/maxed total, don't post"? If this is the case, no wonder people [bleep]ing [bleep] about all the damned elitists. Personally, I usually gratz people whenever they post something that they feel they are proud of. Gratz for achieving your goal.

 

joking here, but my goal is to troll you in this post. congrats to me? :P

 

anyway OT, i think this is a good topic. i'm hearing a lot of reasonable statements which is actually kind of refreshing.

 

Congratz!

[TheAncient]

The people you see succeed are those who worked hard and respect those around them. Those who choice to be arrogant and rude end up living miserably.

 

To that I respond "george bush, bill oreilly, glenn beck, sarah palin"

 

Also, the guy wasn't being serious lol. look at his username

 

Because someone's username is not the serious of names, I shouldn't consider what he says serious? The odds could be against me but you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover.

 

Sarah Palin and George Bush are you saying they didn't work hard to have gotten to where they are in live? You realize in becoming president George Bush had to win over the public's appeal? You may disagree with their politics (and so do I) but arrogance and rudeness did not get them to where they are in life. I choice not to watch those dumb news shows with Bill I'Reilly and Glenn Beck so I can't really comment so much besides be hard ass political commentaries is a rare career field in which being a douchebag is rewarded but you have a better chance at becoming a professional baseball player then obtaining their jobs.

 

given the nature of that post i'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

what about the people who hired oreilly and beck? fox news and its owners KNOWINGLY deceive ignorant members of our society (people involved w fox news have been quoted for things like this) for its own profit. yet their viewers actually love fox news, because they think that fox is helping out the Real America. palin is well known mainly because of her trolling, and bush may have appeared to care for the american public but his policies - especially iraq - do not reflect that he cares. either that or he is just extremely ignorant.

 

another example is typical office politics.

 

look at my edited post, i had already kinda addressed this. with respect to other people, the only thing that really matters in success is that you get people to *think* that you're being nice to them. in the case of RS, how other people view you is pretty irrelevant because very rarely will a grudge bite you in the ass. they can't do anything other than hack you or something, and the chance of that is really low. compare this to real life, where being directly mean loses you friends and makes you fail but being discreetly selfish can help you out. friends and family are a totally different matter - your end goal is companionship in those cases, and honest interaction is necessary.

 

i realize this claim is VERY extreme. but based on my observations this is really how the world works. nice guys finish last.

 

anyway, i've kind of gone off in a tangent. with respect to this thread, i reiterate: some of us come here for companionship, while some of us come here for useful information, and most of us are somewhere in between. realize that some of us aren't necessarily here ONLY to be your friend. instead, we want to mutually help each other by sharing the most accurate information possible. and when you are wrong or say something clearly ignorant, we will likely call you out on it.

[Youmu]

Read back a few pages but I saw a really good point:

 

i think most of the "efficiency freaks" will agree with me in that we are annoyed when people are IGNORANT, not when people are INEFFICIENT. there is a huge difference.

And THIS is why the community in GenDisc will never calm down. There are people that will always be ignorant towards the "efficiency freaks", when in reality they are just wanting to help.

 

I can already see quite a few people in this thread behaving this way... one of them found in the SAME page as this quoted post.

[TheAncient]

one observation about all this flaming is that people - especially me - respond in very predictable ways to specific triggers or key ideas that go against their worldview. this is why people are so riled up. moreover, our triggers overlap and form a positive feedback loop.

 

for example, i flame when i see someone saying something either completely stupid or something along the lines of "let's be nice and not know the reasons behind it", i feel the need to correct them. im doing so, they think "oh wow this guy is being a jerk". every response after that initial interaction is repeating back to the same points that stem from obviously different worldviews.

 

is this a problem? i still think it really isn't one unless you make it.

 

i think a lot of these flame-y posts (an elitists view on crashing etc) have generated a lot of useful introspection. granted, those posts have also made people choose sides - "elitist", "ignorant", or whatever - but in doing so i think we've also gotten to know a lot of each other better and are familiar with each others' perspectives and posting styles. it's good that we know who shares similar ideas as us so we know who we can consult.

[Adam007]

one observation about all this flaming is that people - especially me - respond in very predictable ways to certain triggers or key ideas that go against their worldview. this is why people are so riled up. moreover, our triggers overlap and form a positive feedback loop.

 

for example, i flame when i see someone saying something either completely stupid or something along the lines of "let's be nice and not know the reasons behind it", i feel the need to correct them. im doing so, they think "oh wow this guy is being a jerk". every response after that initial interaction is repeating back to the same points that stem from obviously different worldviews.

 

is this a problem? i still think it really isn't one unless you make it.

 

Agreed. However, just because someone disagrees with another person doesn't mean they are flaming them. They can disagree completely and think the other person's point is completely off base, even completely discrediting their point of view, and that is fine. It becomes flaming when you bring the person into the argument. For a lot of posters here, just debating/arguing is not enough. They need to make their counterpoint, and then add a personal insult. Even if it's something small, like adding "children" and a sarcastic smiley at the end of a sentence, it's unnecessary and ultimately incites more personal attacks. Thankfully it's not too much of a problem here (but of course at the rate the people describe the community is declining, one would have to extrapolate a few years down the line this place will be worse than 4chan /s).

[TheAncient]

one observation about all this flaming is that people - especially me - respond in very predictable ways to certain triggers or key ideas that go against their worldview. this is why people are so riled up. moreover, our triggers overlap and form a positive feedback loop.

 

for example, i flame when i see someone saying something either completely stupid or something along the lines of "let's be nice and not know the reasons behind it", i feel the need to correct them. im doing so, they think "oh wow this guy is being a jerk". every response after that initial interaction is repeating back to the same points that stem from obviously different worldviews.

 

is this a problem? i still think it really isn't one unless you make it.

 

Agreed. However, just because someone disagrees with another person doesn't mean they are flaming them. They can disagree completely and think the other person's point is completely off base, even completely discrediting their point of view, and that is fine. It becomes flaming when you bring the person into the argument. For a lot of posters here, just debating/arguing is not enough. They need to make their counterpoint, and then add a personal insult. Even if it's something small, like adding "children" and a sarcastic smiley at the end of a sentence, it's unnecessary and ultimately incites more personal attacks. Thankfully it's not too much of a problem here (but of course at the rate the people describe the community is declining, one would have to extrapolate a few years down the line this place will be worse than 4chan /s).

 

people have always been saying the community has been declining... i don't think it is, it's just changing. people are used to a certain set of behaviors and when they see that disappear they think the new changes are all negative. i think it's fair to say tif used to be a lot more community oriented and now it's more high-level gameplay oriented. this is not inherently a bad change.

 

when i use the term "flaming" i just use it as a blanket term to mean heated argument. personal insults are a different story. but how do you differentiate between someone who you actually think is stupid and someone who you're annoyed at and want to throw names at? the difference is hard to tell.

[Adam007]

 

people have always been saying the community has been declining... i don't think it is, it's just changing. people are used to a certain set of behaviors and when they see that disappear they think the new changes are all negative. i think it's fair to say tif used to be a lot more community oriented and now it's more high-level gameplay oriented. this is not inherently a bad change.

I'm not sure, I haven't been as involved in the runescape community the past few years. I was just making a larger point that if it's true every few months the community further declines, we would not be where we're at now since TIF has been around for several years.

 

 

when i use the term "flaming" i just use it as a blanket term to mean heated argument. personal insults are a different story. but how do you differentiate between someone who you actually think is stupid and someone who you're annoyed at and want to throw names at? the difference is hard to tell.

Heated argument and debate aren't flaming in my book. But that's another issue. We have these discussions using key words like "flaming" and "trolling" but we have completely different definitions for them (side note, most people completely misunderstand what trolling actually is). But to the point, intense argument is completely acceptable and should be encouraged. If you have reason to believe someone is completely wrong about something, go ahead and refute them using your evidence/experience. What puzzles me is why you even consider throwing names at people. The second I see a person name-calling, everything they just said is discredited in my eyes. You can't debate/argue while attacking the person you're debating with. It removes your own objectivity from the topic you're debating.

[TheAncient]

Heated argument and debate aren't flaming in my book. But that's another issue. We have these discussions using key words like "flaming" and "trolling" but we have completely different definitions for them (side note, most people completely misunderstand what trolling actually is). But to the point, intense argument is completely acceptable and should be encouraged. If you have reason to believe someone is completely wrong about something, go ahead and refute them using your evidence/experience. What puzzles me is why you even consider throwing names at people. The second I see a person name-calling, everything they just said is discredited in my eyes. You can't debate/argue while attacking the person you're debating with. It removes your own objectivity from the topic you're debating.

 

certain people on these forums say things which don't even merit argument. there's really no point in arguing with them or proving your point because they don't even appeal to logic; all they do is throw names at you. these kinds of people are few and far between, thankfully, as they provide barely anything productive to the board.

 

for a post or thought which one actually respects, i agree with you.

[Adam007]

Heated argument and debate aren't flaming in my book. But that's another issue. We have these discussions using key words like "flaming" and "trolling" but we have completely different definitions for them (side note, most people completely misunderstand what trolling actually is). But to the point, intense argument is completely acceptable and should be encouraged. If you have reason to believe someone is completely wrong about something, go ahead and refute them using your evidence/experience. What puzzles me is why you even consider throwing names at people. The second I see a person name-calling, everything they just said is discredited in my eyes. You can't debate/argue while attacking the person you're debating with. It removes your own objectivity from the topic you're debating.

 

certain people on these forums say things which don't even merit argument. there's really no point in arguing with them or proving your point because they don't even appeal to logic; all they do is throw names at you. these kinds of people are few and far between, thankfully, as they provide barely anything productive to the board.

 

for a post or thought which one actually respects, i agree with you.

Then ignore (or report, if you think it's necessary) them. By insulting them back you're letting them bring you down closer to their level.

[Obtaurian]

one observation about all this flaming is that people - especially me - respond in very predictable ways to specific triggers or key ideas that go against their worldview. this is why people are so riled up. moreover, our triggers overlap and form a positive feedback loop.

 

for example, i flame when i see someone saying something either completely stupid or something along the lines of "let's be nice and not know the reasons behind it", i feel the need to correct them. im doing so, they think "oh wow this guy is being a jerk". every response after that initial interaction is repeating back to the same points that stem from obviously different worldviews.

 

is this a problem? i still think it really isn't one unless you make it.

 

i think a lot of these flame-y posts (an elitists view on crashing etc) have generated a lot of useful introspection. granted, those posts have also made people choose sides - "elitist", "ignorant", or whatever - but in doing so i think we've also gotten to know a lot of each other better and are familiar with each others' perspectives and posting styles. it's good that we know who shares similar ideas as us so we know who we can consult.

 

I could not have said it better myself. I have my triggers, too, and I tend to respond in a predictable way. I'm definitely guilty of never backing down from an argument. I'm a stubborn [bleep]. I post very combatively, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

EDIT: On the subject of the definition of trolling, I actually use the term 'trolling' as a backhanded insult. When I say that someone's trolling, what I'm really saying is that their post was so obnoxiously [developmentally delayed]ed that the only logical explanation is that they were attempting to troll.

[Golvellius]

If we rally for anything, I say we have a rally to bring back Oergg to TIF. :P

He always stood out in a crowd.

I remember him trying to bind me so his DI friends could pk me around the MB.

I got away because half his gear was flippers and bunny ears lol.

Last time I saw something from him was a post on RSC maybe 1-2 years ago.

It seems like a bunch of the old school tifers migrated over to RSC.

Probably because of the clan/pking boards.

[xpx]

If we rally for anything, I say we have a rally to bring back Oergg to TIF. :P

He always stood out in a crowd.

I remember him trying to bind me so his DI friends could pk me around the MB.

I got away because half his gear was flippers and bunny ears lol.

Last time I saw something from him was a post on RSC maybe 1-2 years ago.

It seems like a bunch of the old school tifers migrated over to RSC.

Probably because of the clan/pking boards.

I think he actually migrated from tip to di forums(which i think had the best community of any forums, and was TIMES more cut-throat than these boards) and was exceptionally active there for a few years before he quit. Haven't heard anything from him since that time.

[Sir_Kurity]

And THIS is why the community in GenDisc will never calm down. There are people that will always be ignorant towards the "efficiency freaks", when in reality they are just wanting to help.

 

I can already see quite a few people in this thread behaving this way... one of them found in the SAME page as this quoted post.

 

Oh i really hope your not serious.

 

This is coming from the person who says your wasting your time and money if your not efficient, being efficient is the only way to play, etc etc.

 

Its not ignorance in your case, its the truth. Your an efficiency freak who preaches it as if its the only way to play the game, this is far beyond any correction of ignorance.

[Myweponsg00d]

I'm pretty sure we all try to play efficiently. We all have a limited ammount of game time and we would all like to accomplish what it is we would like to accomplish in that given time.

 

Now...whether that means you are going to try to get 100k slay exp every 5 hours or you are going to try to sit around in a bank and chat with your friends for as much as you can in the 2 hours you have online...thats where the difference is.

 

So yeah...you're all efficiency freaks in one way or another. So get over it.

[Crit2h]

Chat + Play game same time, or Play game without much chatting, or just chat and do random stuff that aren't much exp related.

[Sir_Squab]

I'm pretty sure we all try to play efficiently. We all have a limited ammount of game time and we would all like to accomplish what it is we would like to accomplish in that given time.

 

Now...whether that means you are going to try to get 100k slay exp every 5 hours or you are going to try to sit around in a bank and chat with your friends for as much as you can in the 2 hours you have online...thats where the difference is.

 

So yeah...you're all efficiency freaks in one way or another. So get over it.

 

Sooooo..... as best as I can tell from that post, you think the definition of efficiency is, er, playing the game? :mellow: :unsure:

 

A rather dumb definition of efficient, because you can't be be INefficient according to those standards....

[Bladewing]

everyone is trying to maximize their utility in the limited amount of time they can play runescape

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Sooooo..... as best as I can tell from that post, you think the definition of efficiency is, er, playing the game? :mellow: :unsure:

 

A rather dumb definition of efficient, because you can't be be INefficient according to those standards....

efficiency is relative though.

Nothing is inherently efficient or inefficient.

Things are only more efficient or less efficient than the other.

 

And that definition still defines what is more efficient than whatever else.

 

People think efficiency is this elitist measure of how good of a player you are. It's not.

efficiency is just doing good, given your circumstances, regardless of whatever they are.

It's not like making under 5m gp/hour or whatever makes you inefficient.

 

I mean if you're in the mood to chat, then go ahead and chat.

Not chatting when you feel like chatting, or slaying when you don't feel like slaying are most definitely not ideal, and probably not efficient.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Part of the reason, I think, the community has become the way it is, is because it has grown very large.

 

Everybody is attempting to stand out in their own way, some make fools of themselves in the process, be it coming across as arrogant jerks, assclowns, know-it-alls, or "cool people".

 

All of these people are trying too hard.

 

 

How do we fix this?

Silverion should have sold tip.it/runescape to me years ago, solving this problem.

First, I would enforce a dictatorship where 50% of everybodies post count would be moved to my account, discouraging people from spamming for post count.

Second, the word "troll" wouldd be banned, since nobody can handle the word responsibly anyway.

Third, all references from 4chan would make your rank magically become "idiot". And whatever you wrote, would be re-written upon submission to say "Hi, I have no imagination, so I feed off of others cleverness in an attempt to sound, witty, intelligent, and funny in this forum".

Fourth, the boards would close fridays from 16:00 hours to sundays at 12:00 noon, MY TIME!! Because I am the only admin/moderator and I don't like to be here in weekends.

 

All other solutions are just unrealistic.

[Youmu]

Oh i really hope your not serious.

 

This is coming from the person who says your wasting your time and money if your not efficient, being efficient is the only way to play, etc etc.

 

Its not ignorance in your case, its the truth. Your an efficiency freak who preaches it as if its the only way to play the game, this is far beyond any correction of ignorance.

Since when did I imply that efficiency is the only way to play the game? What I'm implying is that it is the most EFFECTIVE way to play the game. There is a difference.

 

As far as ignorance goes, you were the one with the "too much grinding" opinion on the Exclusive Content thread. Again, you can be efficient, but you don't need to grind out your gameplay. Personally, my play time maxes out at about an hour or two each day, more if it's in the holidays. Way less than the average RSer.

 

This is why I CHOOSE to play efficient, and get the most out of my gameplay. But what's to say I don't enjoy it? RS is a great game for me, thank you very much.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Oh i really hope your not serious.

 

This is coming from the person who says your wasting your time and money if your not efficient, being efficient is the only way to play, etc etc.

 

Its not ignorance in your case, its the truth. Your an efficiency freak who preaches it as if its the only way to play the game, this is far beyond any correction of ignorance.

Since when did I imply that efficiency is the only way to play the game? What I'm implying is that it is the most EFFECTIVE way to play the game. There is a difference.

 

As far as ignorance goes, you were the one with the "too much grinding" opinion on the Exclusive Content thread. Again, you can be efficient, but you don't need to grind out your gameplay. Personally, my play time maxes out at about an hour or two each day, more if it's in the holidays. Way less than the average RSer.

 

This is why I CHOOSE to play efficient, and get the most out of my gameplay. But what's to say I don't enjoy it? RS is a great game for me, thank you very much.

 

How much for 20 million gold??

 

lol im just kidding man..... unless you have a nice price... nah jk.. (but do you?) :)

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I heard metafilter does a pretty good job of community control.

 

But don't they charge like $5 for an acount?

I'd imagine that'd do the trick in most cases.

[Myweponsg00d]

I'm pretty sure we all try to play efficiently. We all have a limited ammount of game time and we would all like to accomplish what it is we would like to accomplish in that given time.

 

Now...whether that means you are going to try to get 100k slay exp every 5 hours or you are going to try to sit around in a bank and chat with your friends for as much as you can in the 2 hours you have online...thats where the difference is.

 

So yeah...you're all efficiency freaks in one way or another. So get over it.

 

Sooooo..... as best as I can tell from that post, you think the definition of efficiency is, er, playing the game? :mellow: :unsure:

 

A rather dumb definition of efficient, because you can't be be INefficient according to those standards....

 

My point rather is that the concept of efficiency is a rather dumb concept.

 

Everyone is trying to maximize their ability to do something in the limited time that they have. I don't think that someone who fishes sharks for money vs. doing GWD is necessarily an inefficient gamer, because maybe he just really values the time that he gets to spend in the fishing guild, chatting with his friends.

 

Now...maybe an inefficient gamer would be someone who actually wants to have fun with the game but is not having fun because he chooses to only do things that most of the community deems "useful"

[highlanders]

Nothing. The community wasn't good to begin with. It was perhaps slightly better back in RS1 but it degraded quickly after RS2. Not surprising considering the game is made out mostly of males in their pre-teens, teens or young adulthood. That's easily the most obnoxious age/gender slice in the entire population.