Tip.It Times - 6th February 2011

[BioIce]

The gun control comment wasn't directed at you but at Stormrage and Bladewing.

 

Think what you will of taking away any lessons from a game. I've known my share of kids who grew up on this that are more cautious about certain things now. Enough won't bother at all and continue being suckers.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

[Blyaunte]

The gun control comment wasn't directed at you but at Stormrage and Bladewing.

 

Think what you will of taking away any lessons from a game. I've known my share of kids who grew up on this that are more cautious about certain things now. Enough won't bother at all and continue being suckers.

 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

Well sweetie -- I have three children who have all played Runescape at one time or another. My twins were responsible for getting me started in the game.

 

Back when free trade was still around, I gave each of my children a large sum of cash to do with as they would. Within 24 hours, all three had been scammed of the money I had given them.

 

I considered it a lesson learned then and there.

 

One child, my youngest, who was only 8 at the time, immediately quit playing the game and went on to play Maple Story. Only to have a real life friend steal her account from there some time later. Of course, they denied stealing the account and no amount of discussions with that child's parents ever managed to rectify the problem. Actually, they were horrible despicable people and we were fortunate to be done with them when it was all over.

 

... and yes, there was certainly a lesson learned there too.

 

My twins continued to play Runescape though. One quit playing two years ago to spend more time playing WoW. He lost his account when it was hacked by some gold-farming operation. Took him a while to get that back.

 

Hmmm - there must have been a lesson learned there too.

 

The one child of mine who continues to play Runescape has, so far, avoided being scammed since free trade came back.

 

But you know what my kids learned from all of this?

 

Don't come crying to me when they [bleep] up.

 

End of story.

[BioIce]

 

But you know what my kids learned from all of this?

 

Don't come crying to me when they [bleep] up.

 

End of story.

 

So, when you hear someone crying out that they've been hacked in public chat, do you believe it directed at you? If so, why not just ignore it and go on with the game? Shrug it off, no loss there apart from you having read their text. I see no point complaining about the whiners when it's a regular occurrence. It's like complaining about rain.

 

I recently once gave a stranger 1m to toy with. (It's peanuts to me.) He found me again a few hours later with 6m in his inventory and insisted on returning the 1m. I was delighted more with how he used his brains than giving back the money, which he didn't need to do. Prior to that I'd given another boy 1m and he lost it pking in the wild. Heh.

[Bladewing]

But you know what my kids learned from all of this?

 

Don't come crying to me when they [bleep] up.

 

End of story.

if that's the kind of empathy you show your own flesh and blood, i wouldn't be so condescending towards those who don't empathize with complete strangers ;)

 

Your empathy for your fellow player is remarkable. Will you be my friend, pl0x? :lol:

[Range_This11]

Abusus non tollit usum

 

Translation: “Abuse is no argument against proper use”, legal phrase meaning that just because something can be abused there is no reason for putting an end to its legitimate use

 

 

So whats your argument again in the first article?

 

Actually, it IS an argument if you KNOW that that abuse is going to increase... QED: Gun-related crime per capita in the US is way higher than in the UK (27 times), and knowing this is (according to you) no argument against allowing people to purchase, own and carry guns...

 

Every sane person knew that RWT and Botting and Scamming and all the other bad stuff would vastly increase the second Free Trade would return... Even Jagex knew it...

I dig your articles and I am totally against the ownership of guns, but correlation =/= causation (even though in some cases it ends up looking that way). Gotta side with the peanut gallery on this one :wink:

[Guest jrhairychest]

Until (if ever) the G.E. ceases to exist I don't think we'll ever get back to the true free trade we once had. Every bugger will still use the G.E for the convenience and go off the guide prices.

[essiw]

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is (even jagex says that in their guides to not get scammed). You all have been scammed by jagex by not reading their faqs and picking up that line. /joke

Nice articles, altough I was confused about "bessy" because there is also a "bessy" in zanaris.

[Racheya]

Until (if ever) the G.E. ceases to exist I don't think we'll ever get back to the true free trade we once had. Every bugger will still use the G.E for the convenience and go off the guide prices.

Silly us not wanting to stand around spamming in banks :rolleyes:

[Guest jrhairychest]

Until (if ever) the G.E. ceases to exist I don't think we'll ever get back to the true free trade we once had. Every bugger will still use the G.E for the convenience and go off the guide prices.

Silly us not wanting to stand around spamming in banks :rolleyes:

Heh. I'm sorry to say but...I actually miss those days :-k. I knew where I stood with prices of most stuff, not the yo-yoing we have now the worth 300gp one minute 1k the next etc. *sigh* for a bit of stability...............................

[Bladewing]

in a month prices will be stable on all but the most extreme items (partyhats, crackers, half wines, torva/pernix/virtus, elysian/divine)

[Excels]

I disagree with the idea that we could have just "waited" for merched items to crash. It would often be a week or so before the item would come down, and the things is, under the old system, you could try harder. Try as you might, you couldn't get past the 5% limit with the old GE. Besides, this is a game. We play games in order to avoid these idiosyncrasies.

 

TS Stormrage's position on this small bit of his article is wrong, I find most of it right (except for the bit in the next sentence about trade limit expansions; can you really count that as a beneficial aspect brought about by the removal of free trade?). He should have said "this is a problem, but free trade isn't the only solution" - like he said for many other arguments.

 

I agree, however, with other people's points regarding the bias and tone of this article. For example, gifting items was left out, as was previously mentioned. Finally, the tone is accusatory.

[Dracae]

in a month prices will be stable on all but the most extreme items (partyhats, crackers, half wines, torva/pernix/virtus, elysian/divine)

 

In a month sharks just about all the gathered items will be stable.. at incredibly low prices.. making RS very one sided... easier buyable production skils, useless gatherer skills.

Unless Jagex can actually do what they promised, take care of the bots.. the game will suffer a lot.

[Bladewing]

in a month prices will be stable on all but the most extreme items (partyhats, crackers, half wines, torva/pernix/virtus, elysian/divine)

 

In a month sharks just about all the gathered items will be stable.. at incredibly low prices.. making RS very one sided... easier buyable production skils, useless gatherer skills.

Unless Jagex can actually do what they promised, take care of the bots.. the game will suffer a lot.

low price is their true price. fishing and woodcutting are hardly labor intensive, and hence earn low wages.

[kasheyev]

I personally voted no to the Free Trade and Willdy coming back. While I had been playing back before they were changed, standing around in w2 fally park was never really my idea of a fun time. I did it if I really had to buy or sell items. I typically am a player versus monster player and so i don't want to argue one way or another about the wildy because i honestly would rather deal with players than revanents in the wildy. But my big thing with Free Trade was the next few days after it was released was the number of beggars we saw because they were "hacked" or scammed, i thought it was funny to see all of them complaining about how they lost claws or someone scammed them out of an ss with a steel 2h or traded them 150 broodoo's for their ags and now they cant sell them. I simply laughed at these people and continued to run barrows, if they had wanted it back so bad they should have taken more time to pay attention with the tardes they were doing or the staking. even though i had voted no to the change because i had grown accustom to the g.e. i have taken advantage of being able to truly help friends by giving them gifts of items such as herbs logs ect withou asking for payment. All i have to say is if 91% of the players wanted it don't complain to me when u lose claws oe something because u didnt take time to watch ur trade closely or think "You" wuldn't or can't die in wildy because u have claws.

[Bladewing]

ge still works, i don't get what you are saying

[jaklumen]

EDIT: I have been quoted, so I guess that will suffice. But being quoted just fed ammo to flaming, and... that's not cool with me.

[kasheyev]

ge still works, i don't get what you are saying

 

 

The g.e. works to an extent. take for example that i ahd to go on g.e. and purchase a dwarven stout (m) for 55k although the g.e. price says round about 35k. The fact that i had to go 20k above just to ensure that the item i was looking for was bought proves the g.e. only stands a place for people who can't or won't deal with screaming and spamming their heads off in a bank.

 

I guess a couple good things to come out of the whole ft wildy update was infact that you can gift to friends and others in ur cc should u be in one. just the idea of being able to help out someone for nothing kinda bringing some altruism into the game is very nice. not to mention eliminating the junk trading was also very convient i must add.

[Racheya]

This. I for one am not complaining. I managed to bank a number of skills for a fraction of the price they were before

 

Of course you wouldn't complain. You don't use these methods to live on. I, and many others, have to spend hours and hours fishing to somehow accumulate money. Just because you can be nice and happy having cheap sharks does NOT make it right.

 

Second, I was very tired of an unequal push and pull. Most of the time, I really believe skillers have got the short end of the stick. Shattered Heart for a variety of non-combat skills and charm sprites for Hunting were excellent updates, and evened things a bit. Granted, these came in when old wildy was out and revs were in. I did notice that PKers felt very jilted when revs came in, so I wonder: why must one group always gain at the expense of another? It really had gone both ways, but again, I would say skillers have the short end-- it's just much less short than it was before. Less unequal, but not yet equal, just in my opinion.

Oh, and on that subject:

I thought Forsaken's fictional was pretty interesting' date=' hopefully he'll do another..[/quote']

 

She. Aming Heart, the Forsaken Mage (a.k.a. "Ami" to members of "The" Clan, yes?) is a she. We've chatted from time to time over the years, and I am of the understanding she is a woman. Perhaps she'll be embarrassed I've pointed that out... maybe not.

 

Yep, I agree with you. Skillers often feel the harsh end of the stick, God knows why, it's not like they contribute less to the game or are a minority. So I'm often confused as to why Jagex just ignore this huge group of players in favour of pleasing the 'herp derp I hit something with a metal stick' crowd.

 

And yes, ForsakenMage (Ami) is, in fact, a girl ;)

[Bladewing]

Of course you wouldn't complain. You don't use these methods to live on. I, and many others, have to spend hours and hours fishing to somehow accumulate money. Just because you can be nice and happy having cheap sharks does NOT make it right.

let's get this straight. you don't have to fish to make money. you can go do other things that don't suck for money. stop acting helpless to justify why you like doing easy things (yes, fishing is easy, it's like 60 actions per hour).

 

Yep, I agree with you. Skillers often feel the harsh end of the stick, God knows why, it's not like they contribute less to the game or are a minority. So I'm often confused as to why Jagex just ignore this huge group of players in favour of pleasing the 'herp derp I hit something with a metal stick' crowd.

yes, they contribute less. fishing contributes less effort than soloing dagannoth kings - not only is it risk free, it takes about one fiftieth the effort.

 

this is runescape, not america - you actually can be anything you want to be. you aren't forced to fish. and being stubborn isn't a good reason either.

[strilmus]

At the same time, it'd suck if everybody stopped fishing, eh?

[ForsakenMage]

Off Topic Clarification: Yes I'm female, but I am no longer part of 'The' Clan. You can still call me Ami or Magey, whichever is easier. Forsaken is already hard enough to type. :P

 

On Topic

I don't think it's so much the fact that people are getting money from the return of the Wildy. The thing that actually angers me the most out of all of this is the number of outrageous bugs that Jagex seemed to have failed to test for, and oversights with the Duel Arena. Look at how many glitches there were. Apparently in one case, six people managed to stake in a total of over 20 billion between themselves thanks to a glitch. That I think is what angers most everyone, i.e. people are cheating to get that massive amount of cash, while the legit ones suffer for it. <_< I'm staying away from the Duel Arena for a good long while (I didn't lose anything there, but I'm not taking any chances).

[Bladewing]

At the same time, it'd suck if everybody stopped fishing, eh?

if everyone stopped, then fishing would instantly become incredibly profitable and people would move back and reap the profits. don't be asinine.

 

it's all about seeking out competition and moving to the market you perform least poorly at.

[Ts_Stormrage]

@Bladewing: while you are technically correct on the skill v kill argument, RuneScape used to be about the balance between the two, in order to have people enjoy as many aspects of the game...

 

Bots will rapidly lower prices of MANY items as they have done in the past, and therefor basicly kill an aspect of the game... I'm not entirely sure that Jagex had this in mind when releasing Free Trade...

 

@Excels: We did agree to seperate Wilderness and Free Trade between us, but not how we would write about the two... Fortunately we are allowed to be biased and accusatory in our articles, just as we are allowed to be purely factional and boring :)

 

As for your argument, I made a whole summum of stuff that you could and couldnt do and I did mention giving gifts in a single line which I'll quote here:

 

"...don't you think it was perhaps a good thing that you couldn't just give your Phat collection away?"

 

Oh, and by 'waiting for prices to come back down' I did mean a few days, maybe a week... While this is roughly equal to the time needed to find a seller who matches your low offer in fally w2, the difference I wanted to point out between the two is that you can do something else while the GE does the work for you...

[Bladewing]

@Bladewing: while you are technically correct on the skill v kill argument, RuneScape used to be about the balance between the two, in order to have people enjoy as many aspects of the game...

 

Bots will rapidly lower prices of MANY items as they have done in the past, and therefor basicly kill an aspect of the game... I'm not entirely sure that Jagex had this in mind when releasing Free Trade...

riddle me this batman: at what price did rocktails no longer become enjoyable? were rocktails enjoyable to fish at 2200 each, but not at 2199?

 

the skills are just as enjoyable (lol just kidding, fishing is not enjoyable) as before, imaskiller123 just feels entitled to making as much money as people who put in 20x more effort than he does.

 

yes bots lower the price. but fishing has always been bad money and would be bad money even in the absence of bots for the exact reason i've posted several times already - it takes virtually no effort.

 

also it is worth noting that all the menial and easy tasks in runescape - the ones that are bad money - are the ones the bots tend to flock to. if you are sick of bots "ruining your profits", maybe you should put in the effort and do something that bots can't do very well, eh?

[Sheep Tails]

Correction to pretty much every post here: 91% voted yes. But of the remaining 9%, 2 or 3% was people who voted "I don't care either way". Like me. Honestly? These updates, as much as they seem to be outraging most of you lot, are just not worth it.

 

Points:

 

1. To start with, people adapt. Jagex removes wildy & free trade. People rant, ragequit, and otherwise freak out, but eventually everyone settles down with only the periodical rant about the issues with the GE. If you can adapt to the REMOVAL of free trade, how come you can't adapt to its being reinstated? I can pretty much guarantee that the only rants about free trade before it was removed was if someone got scammed; but let's face it, Jagex DID add the second screen for that exact purpose. And if you don't pay attention, it's really your own fault. So if you're complaining about how Jagex ought not to have implemented these restored aspects because it ups scamming rates, really now? Scamming is just free trade's equivalent of merching, although it is far easier to circumvent.

 

So, wildy and free trade removed. Jagex literally has to filter rants and constructive criticism because of the amount of rage posts. Jagex restores wildy and free trade. Jagex literally has to filter rants and constructive criticism because of the amount of rage posts. Wait, what? Jagex has done what ranters and many others wanted for years, and they get ranted at?

 

2. This to head off the "RWT, scamming, etc going up" posts. Did you get scammed, might I ask? No? Then why are you arguing this point? So you see a bunch of whiny kids crying because they got scammed. Why defend them, when normally you "mature" people rant about Runescape being a kidsfest? Heck, I'm just barely 14. And I've been playing since I was 10. I've been scammed once or twice, but I know that was because I wasn't paying attention like I should have. RWT never touched and never will touch me directly. Prices go up/down. So? I'll find a way to benefit from it and adapt like I should. Think of it as a stock market; if a computer giant's stocks take a huge plunge but start to inch their way up, you buy them to turn a profit. Take advantage of what you can.

 

3. All those, "now you have to shout in world 2 for hours to get an offer" posts. So what? I miss the instantaneousness (Is that a word? :shock:) of the GE as much as anyone. I loved being able to set my herbs to sell and go off to MTK to get more $$$. But really now? Most of you have, at some point, commented that kids from pre-2007 don't understand. Understand what? I played pre-2007, and there were good points to the whole shouting thing. You get to bargain. You can have fun being a bargain hunter, which personally I find amusing. The free trade update has its ups and downs, just like the GE did.

 

4. Finally, the "bots will ruin prices" posts. As much as I find bladewing critical of everything, (Sorry, but you must admit you make a LOT of critical posts) I agree here. Fishing and Woodcutting had epic low prices in free trade before. Sure, part of that was botting, (Maybe a very large part) but it was also because people realized, Hey, fish and wc take like 0 effort apart from time spent. Why should we spend so much? I agree it was mostly botting, but that WAS there too. So what? I say that a lot, but it is kind of my whole point. Fishing and Woodcutting go down, you use the opportunity to train cooking and firemaking and fletching. How is that different from what you did with the GE, taking advantage of low prices to train skills cheaply?

 

My points might seem biased towards free trade and wildy, unlike my "I don't care either way" vote, but they're not really. The "I don't care" voting option was there for people to show they could adapt and accept whatever outcome Jagex decided upon. Jagex decided upon reinstating free trade and wildy, so I accept this and go on my way.

 

Oh and if anyone thinks of making a "You were too young when you played before 2007 to know the problems" post, don't. I got scammed. I accepted it. Maybe you should try looking at it from a kid's point of view. I don't mean those whiny 10-year-olds that you lot keep complaining about. I know they exist and I agree with you. But look at this topic, without any details, from the simple view of a 6-year-old. They seem naive, but if you think about it, their view just cuts through all the nonsense and gets right to the point. I did not rant, scam, whine, or cry in RS when I was 10. I can't prove it, of course, but I didn't. So do me the favour of treating me as you would someone of your own age, not as a whiny 10-year-old or a whiny teenager, and reply coherently to my post. Thanks.