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Runefest - Insider Session Breaking Bots


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#1
RoswellCrash
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Breaking Bots:

Bots are a much-discussed topic among many MMO players and, at RuneFest 2011, we’ll talk about the bots in RuneScape, our thoughts on them and our plans for combating them. The panel (including Jagex CEO Mark Gerhard) will then open the floor to your questions and comments. If you’ve an opinion on bots (and let’s face it, who doesn’t?) then this is a session that you really need to be a part of.


Source - 23-Sep-2011 - Runefest 2011 - Insider Sessions revealed!

In light of this, I was wondering if people could give well constructed questions which could possibly be put forward at RuneFest.

Please feel free to discuss any of the info found in the RuneFest Insider Sessions.

#2
tripsis
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Interesting. I was pretty sure they had previously said that "RuneFest will not be a time to talk about bots" or something.

FYI here's the complete list of insider sessions: http://www.runefest....sider-sessions/
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#3
RoswellCrash
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Yes, a group of us were told the same thing in the RuneFest Friends chat, maybe something has caused them to change their minds, or they just realised it would be almost impossible to ignore. I planned to bring something up no matter what, I wasn't quite sure what I was going to say but I was planing to ask something in one of the larger sessions.

#4
rsboy
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Thoughts are "We'll use them to rent more buildings, hire developers to fund our new game."

#5
Naraku893
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too bad nothing will happen to the bots.

#6
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My questions would be:

Why not implant a temporary fix, something that requires human interaction?

Why did you choose the hide in the shadows preparing a comeback method?

How are goldfarms set up, do they really have so many ip addresses?
Me and the wise old man go way back.... he was a foolish boy back then.


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#7
DarkDude
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too bad nothing will happen to the bots.


It's posts and attitudes like these which are ruining this site. It seems it's the same few people that have to crap on every single thing about the game even before it's happened. An update is announced? "OMG THIS WILL BE THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT!". It's fine to have negative things to say towards an update or whatever, but how about waiting until it's actually happened before you say that instead of mindless speculation based off nothing at all.

Yes, bots suck in the back and are having a huge negative impact on pretty much everyone's enjoyment of the game and Jagex haven't been doing anywhere near enough to stop it that along with weaker punishments for bots are not a good thing. Everyone knows that and it doesn't need to be stated in every single thread on the forums. While it may be terrible at the moment the fact that they're willing to talk to publicly about this, which is something they said they wouldn't do shows to me that they know how big the problem is amongst the community and hopefully will address some concerns and promise to do more about it to stop it. I highly doubt they'll go into details on their current system but clearly something along the lines isn't working either at all or just not well enough (probably the latter I'd imagine).

#8
RoswellCrash
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My questions would be:

Why not implant a temporary fix, something that requires human interaction?

Why did you choose the hide in the shadows preparing a comeback method?



I think the first question will be answered with something along the likes on how it would be to destructive to game-play, but I see what your getting at.

Your 2nd question is the one on everyone's mind, and one that will hopefully be addressed. I honestly think they've kept in the shadows because they have not made any gains in the war against the bots, but with this latest update to RuneFest and what appears to be a turnaround on what they originally said, have they got something in the works? This has got me intrigued.

Thanks.

Edit, Thanks DarkDude, I was going to address them myself but probably not a good idea as the OP if I want to be taken seriously.
You've posted exactly what needed to be said, shame nobody will learn from it.

#9
Blyaunte
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Interesting. I was pretty sure they had previously said that "RuneFest will not be a time to talk about bots" or something.

FYI here's the complete list of insider sessions: http://www.runefest....sider-sessions/


Not sure if this deserves it's own thread or not but I could not help noticing this:

With a space in our release schedule for a skill update and five great community ideas up for consideration, RuneScape’s developers will take to the stage to pitch their favourite suggestions to you the RuneFest audience ...


What skill(s) are they planning on updating? :unsure:

On TOPIC: My question to the Botting platform discussion:

Inasmuch as the overwhelming numbers of obvious bots has demonstrated that your current methods of bot reduction and elimination are clearly not working, don't you think it's time to unveil those aspects of your "secret operations" for bot reduction to the general public, in order that your methods can be critiqued and thereby improved upon?

:rolleyes:

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#10
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Inasmuch as the overwhelming numbers of obvious bots has demonstrated that your current methods of bot reduction and elimination are clearly not working, don't you think it's time to unveil those aspects of your "secret operations" for bot reduction to the general public, in order that your methods can be critiqued and thereby improved upon?


Got to disagree with that. Less information released to big audiences, the better they can keep bot scripters from finding workarounds before they're even implemented, wouldn't you think? Aren't all these insider sessions locked down by legal agreements not to talk about it?

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#11
RoswellCrash
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When I first read that myself I thought they said schedule release for a skill, then I read the update part, I also noticed you used the words current methods?
I struggle to see any method that has been demonstrated since the release of the wilderness & free trade that wasn't there before.

They did something like that last year, they gave ideas and each mod talked about the idea they liked/had and we voted on it. Can't remember for the life of me what it was now..


Aren't all these insider sessions locked down by legal agreements not to talk about it?


I never signed anything last year before or during the event to agree to that, as far as I am aware everything they say is free for us to talk about outside of the event.

Can I bring a camera/video camera?
Absolutely, please do we want you to have photos to remember your day! Please note that there may be some areas where the unauthorised use of photographic or recording equipment is prohibited, but we will make it clear throughout the venue where you can/cannot take photos.


Although this in the faq, might suggest some of the info is off limits.

#12
Blyaunte
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Inasmuch as the overwhelming numbers of obvious bots has demonstrated that your current methods of bot reduction and elimination are clearly not working, don't you think it's time to unveil those aspects of your "secret operations" for bot reduction to the general public, in order that your methods can be critiqued and thereby improved upon?


Got to disagree with that. Less information released to big audiences, the better they can keep bot scripters from finding workarounds before they're even implemented, wouldn't you think? Aren't all these insider sessions locked down by legal agreements not to talk about it?


On the contrary -- it's abundantly clear that what they're doing isn't working already. Not to mention that it's likewise clear the bot scripters have already found ways to circumvent whatever it is they're employing.

It's broke -- time to fix the damn thing. <_<

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#13
Sona
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Inasmuch as the overwhelming numbers of obvious bots has demonstrated that your current methods of bot reduction and elimination are clearly not working, don't you think it's time to unveil those aspects of your "secret operations" for bot reduction to the general public, in order that your methods can be critiqued and thereby improved upon?


Got to disagree with that. Less information released to big audiences, the better they can keep bot scripters from finding workarounds before they're even implemented, wouldn't you think? Aren't all these insider sessions locked down by legal agreements not to talk about it?


I agree with your perspective. However, given that the majority of Jagex's player base is considerably younger than what we would expect reasonable behavior from...

Consider this for a moment.

Let's say you're a scripter making hundreds if not thousands of dollars on RS scripts.

Wouldn't it make sense for you to y'know, go to this bot-busting thing? To figure out how exactly things take place? How hard is it to get a ticket to said event? I'm gonna guess not very.

I fail to see the rationale in keeping anti-bot measurements away from the public. Other MMOs, for instance, explain full-well what they use, and they're met with varying degrees of success. Warden may be the most famous, though it certainly isn't the last one. Keeping secrets is only beneficial IF the secret is kept. With a game the scale of RS, it's going to be leaked, sooner or later. If you have a super secret special awesome panel, and one person leaks your secret to say, the botting community. Congratulations! Not only are you not gonna have any secrets kept, but you're left with a very unhappy vocal minority insisting on "why don't I get to know what's going on?"

I mean, seriously. What's Jagex going to do? Hire a guard at the door and stare at anyone sternly and ask "are u bot scripter?" as they try to get in?

In this case, it may be better for them to be transparent than to try to keep things behind doors.

#14
RoswellCrash
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You have to realise they can tell us what they are going to do without telling us how, they don't have to give us the damn code.

Edit: That still makes sense to me..

#15
strilmus
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Considering that I recently got some official chewing out in the RSOF for expressing legitimate, reasonable concerns about these kinds of topics (without actually being told specifically what I had done wrong), especially since I was actually DEFENDING their "loyalty programme", I wonder why it's being allowed by paying convention money.

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#16
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My one question would be: Are they prepared to take free trade and wild away again if they finally ever admit that they lied and couldnt handle the problem?

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#17
Kimberly
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[snip for easy-on-the-eyes :P]

In this case, it may be better for them to be transparent than to try to keep things behind doors.


Mmm.

That's a fair point. I worry though, since attempts to stop bots have been less than successful up to this point. You're completely right that developers can easily get in there, it's just...Ah well. Trying not to be horribly pessimistic about the situation :P

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#18
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They're not going to say how their current detection system works which it seems like some of you seem to think this is all about.

#19
Blyaunte
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They're not going to say how their current detection system works which it seems like some of you seem to think this is all about.


That's not what I said -- I merely suggested that perhaps they should explain their "detection system" for the purposes of allowing criticism of it in the hopes that some improvements may be made upon it.

:huh:

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#20
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Their answers are bound to be: "Answering that would help the botters" or "Better systems would take money away from putting out updates" or one of their many more generic answers... Don't have to go to know this is just another way of sticking the protesters away in a corner whilst maintaining a good public image...
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